If the criticism only comes up now, it’s not real criticism. It’s astro-turfing for Trump. We’ve had 4 years of Biden but the amount of Biden criticism I’ve seen lately has risen sharply. Sure, criticize the things he’s done lately, but I’ve seen stuff from years ago.
There’s no point in that unless you’re trying to tank his chances against Trump.
Progressives who would rather primary a nobody who will absolutely fail to get non-progressive votes and lose to Trump are unhinged or failed gradeschool civics. It’s just stupidity or worse: Trump propaganda.
Fetterman is great on domestic policy, but he’s a shit hawk on foreign policy.
not great on the environment.
he thinks people criticizing biden should vote for trump? i don’t think that’s going to work out the way he hopes.
no. its that a tacit non-democratic vote is a vote for fascism. while true, doesnt mean we cant blame the DNC and Biden for refusing to run a defend-able candidate.
Fuck the DNC and how they shit all over america, putting us in this position.
> its that a tacit non-democratic vote is a vote for fascism.
a vote for biden is a vote for fascism. the antifascist candidates i see are cornel west and jill stein.
Splitting the Dem vote with third parties is a good way to get Trump elected. So it’s a sideways way of voting for extreme fascism.
Yep. Duverger’s law and history. Third party haven’t been able to get significant points to the point where they win the election in first past the post system. So, basically Cornell West and Jill Stein are completely worthless.
if you dont hold your nose and vote non-trump, those 3rd parties will never get a chance again. at the very least the DNC do pretend democracy. trump isnt even pretending democracy anymore.
so yeah, vote those 3rd parties one last time.
those so-called third parties are non-trump
ok
This is one of the people who has been trying to convince me that Cornel West has a decent chance of being president. Take from that what you will.
And this person talks about the upballot when the subject matter was downballot. He wasn’t able to answer how is Cornell West or Jill Stein relevant when it comes to downballot choices of people who refuses to vote for Biden.
this is classic poisoning the well, a form of ad hominem.
Fuck the DNC and how they shit all over america, putting us in this position.
You could go ahead and blame boomer generation for putting us in such a bad position. All of that can be traced back to them. Newer generation needs to vote out GOP, and then when GOP dies out, vote for progressive party, and ignore the whims of the boomer generation.
Sen. John Fetterman (D-Pa.) panned Democrats who are upping their criticisms of President Biden ahead of the November election, saying they might as well don a “MAGA hat.”
Fetterman noted during an interview an uptick in Democrats who have become more critical of Biden lately, and said it’s only helping former President Trump.
Democracy! No longer allowed to question or criticize our politicians.
That’s a dishonest way to look at what he said. An honest one would be that he has just as much right to criticize Democrats offering aid to Trump as the Democrats offering aid to Trump have a right to criticize Biden.
Biden: [Does things]
Self-aggrandizing Democrats: [You shouldn’t be doing that.]
Fetterman: [They shouldn’t be doing that.]
You: [Fetterman is anti-democracy and pro-censorship.]This is just pure clownishness.
Context is key, and you’ve broken down the situation to the point of absurdity.
Fetterman noted during an interview an uptick in Democrats who have become more critical of Biden lately, and said it’s only helping former President Trump.
If it were closer to the election, I would definitely agree, and maybe it is too close now, although I don’t think so… if it is not too close, then Biden should be criticized by Democrats who have their ear to the ground to move him towards supporting more popular policies.
I’m voting for “not trump” no matter what, but if Biden doesn’t want to get criticized, he should get his shit together.
It’s news when the democrats say there’s no appropriate time to critique democrats
Just like the GOP when it comes time to talk about firearm reforms or another shooting
there’s no appropriate time
Biden’s been in office for more than 3 years. But all the complaints get drummed out during election season. I wonder who’s pushing them…
You’ve had your head in the sand if you haven’t been hearing people complain about Biden for nearly 4 years.
I have. But it seems to have been ramping up lately. And criticisms of things in the past now are not being done for anything but to tank the election.
Dude, it’s primary season now. It’s precisely the time when you should be criticizing someone.
You aren’t going to primary an incumbent. Get over it.
That is not at all what the argument was. You said now’s not the time. Now is literally the time.
There’s never a time.
The election industry is massive in the USA. The media is not really indicative of the conversations of the citizens, but they do know how to start reflecting these things when it’s time to sell it.
It’s a shame the genocide had to ramp up for election season, huh? Oh well, it’s not the people that are criticizing the genocide enablers fault. That is 100% the fault of all the elected officials enabling it.
I bet trump will totally fix it. /s
Democrats should not be supporting genocide.
You should stop. So should Biden.
It should be news when someone calls himself progressive for years and as soon as he gets to congress he starts ranting about how much it pisses him off everyone thinks he’s progressive.
Asshole pulled a Sinema and the most annoying part is everyone defending him because he wears a hoodie.
he’d been saying for a while he’s NOT progressive
That began conveniently after his election.
idk. he’s always been big on fracking, and everyone remembers the jogger with a suspicious look. i don’t identify as progressive, either, so it’s not an identity i look for in anyone else, but he insists that he never told people he was progressive.
I hope it’s more due to the fact that he had a stroke rather than he’s doing it intentionally. Either way he has had a complete shift in personality and its disappointing to no end that he’s not who he was when elected.
I’m not worried about Biden’s age mostly because I think this comes from the racist fear that Kamala Harris isn’t capable of running this country.
Either way he has had a complete shift in personality and its disappointing to no end that he’s not who he was when elected.
Gabbard didn’t have a shift, she was always shitty and people just didn’t notice. Her whole political background is socially conservative politics and she increased her profile during Obama’s term attacking him from the right on Fox News. Some people got infatuated by her quitting the DNC for Bernie, but that wasn’t because she was a progressive.
Gabbard didn’t have a shift, she was always shitty and people just didn’t notice.
She isn’t the only one:
Elizabeth Warren: The Republican Years
Elizabeth Warren’s Biggest Donor Is Revealed To Have Also Funded A Major Trump Ally
Yeah, I’ve known a couple family members who had a stroke and became better people.
Sometimes it works the other way.
Personality changes arent a rare after effect, it’s pretty common.
I think we’re worried about biden’s age less because we’re worried he’ll die in office and more because we’re worried he won’t and will keep running the country as his mind deteriorates beyond the point he should be running a bingo game.
I’m far more confident of Biden surrounding himself with capable stewards, than Trump. So even if the worst happens and he stays alive but loses it like Reagan, he will at least have intelligent, relatively progressive people behind the scenes making the actual decisions.
With sundowning narcissist Trump at the wheel? Buckle the fuck in, because it’s going to be a wild ride. I wouldn’t worry about having to vote at the federal level again, so at least it’ll help with that decision.
I really wish I could joke about this, but if Trump becomes president again, things are going to get very very dark.
Well said. A vote for Biden is a vote for his entire administration, including all the judges and secretaries and people behind the scenes. These have proven to be overwhelmingly competent people and the roles are absolutely critical. Trump has openly said he’ll purge the entire federal government and replace them with lackeys. It’s about more than just the man.
For sure, I’m in no way advocating voting for trump I just wish the Democratic Party had ran someone who was even “just ok” instead of just barely better than the serial rapist
And they will in 4 years. This is the time where progressives need to start grooming primary candidates for 2028.
Democrats were never going to give up the incumbent advantage, and I’m legitimately surprised by how the media has been acting like it’s a weird situation. It’s giving people this impression that pulling your current leader (of both the party, and in this case, the county) and running someone else in their place is a viable strategy in US presidential politics.
Unfortunately, this is a numbers game, and in a race that’s historically been this close, you don’t give up what is essentially the biggest (and possibly only) advantage you have as the party currently in power. It just doesn’t happen, and the Democrats doing this is not weird or surprising in any way.
First off, I want to say that I appreciated you telling your story here. I’m going to argue against some points, but I think it was a good comment even if there are points I disagree with.
It’s giving people this impression that pulling your current leader (of both the party, and in this case, the county) and running someone else in their place is a viable strategy in US presidential politics.
No other leader has been this old. And there have been plenty of times where a party’s leader didn’t run for reelection. What’s doomed is a challenge. If Biden had followed the rumor from 2020 and stepped down after a single term, Democrats would probably be in a much better position.
The “incumbent advantage” has led to 3 of the last 7 incumbents losing. It’s not a bulletproof strategy, particularly if the incumber is very unpopular.
I’ll say that again, one of the main speakers at the 2004 Republican National Convention, was a registered Democrat. Imagine that happening now, it would be like Rand Paul speaking at the DNC.
Nah, everyone loves a “convert”. Tulsi Gabbard has been a featured speaker at CPAC since 2022. Just like Zell, it’s not really a Democrat highlighting Democratic values while supporting a Republican, it’s a conservative with a good story to tell about how the other side went too far.
And it was not only based on the quality and content of the speech (which made everything at the RNC look like Four Seasons Landscaping), but based on the fact that this previously completely unknown guy got a keynote (possibly even the keynote spot, I forget) slot at the DNC. You could tell that the party knew what they had with Obama, and within 4 years, he was goddamn President.
Do you even remember who the 2020 DNC keynote speaker was? I don’t. And that’s not because we don’t have inspiring speakers (AOC is a fantastic communicator, Ayanna Pressley is one of the best orators I’ve ever heard), it’s because the party establishment finds Obama-level politicians threatening. Looking it up now, they had 17 different people all give part of a speech. No risk of a rising star in that mish-mash. That’s why, despite several political disasters under their watch, the leadership was the same dinosaurs, only to very recently be replaced by their long term acolytes.
Remember, they didn’t want Obama to be president. When he ran for president he was the outsider because the party establishment was all lined up behind Clinton.
Honestly, I would not at all be shocked if Biden resigns the day after inauguration and Harris takes over. I’ve seen several recent articles that seem to indicate she’s WAY more in tune with the concerns of the (sane portion of the) electorate, and is actively trying to step up in many areas where Biden and his campaign are dropping the ball. We’ll see what happens, I guess.
Based Fetterman.
He’s not wrong, he’s just an asshole.
everyone I dont like is a nazi
Funny how demanding unquestioned loyalty is a MAGA cultist quality.
While voting for Biden is the right thing to do in these circumstances, Fetterman has zero understanding of optics and apparently the oil companies got to him judging by his pro-Israel stance.
There are other choices. We don’t have to settle for Trump or Biden.
We kinda do though. Sure you can vote for someone else if you want, but we are going to end up with either Trump or Biden.
That’s what they’d like you to think. If everyone moved a few check boxes down on the ballot, we’d have anyone else. Break free! It feels good 😊
https://intersol.ca/news/organizational-culture-and-the-5-monkeys-experiment/
(This never actually happened but I think the idea holds)
There is literally no other reasonable option than Biden, thanks to FPTP. Voting for Trump is voting a fascist, every other “option” is throwing your vote away.
There is literally no other reasonable option than Biden
Biden is not a reasonable option. Biden is merely the least horrifically unreasonable. The Democratic Party’s ambitions extend no further and never will.
They used to, and they can again. A party is not a person or even a group of people. Let that silly anthropomorphism go. A party is a tool, a lever of power. Don’t like the people who control it? Great! Neither do I. Let’s take it from them.
Well, you sir are a free thinker. Claim your prize in the ruins of democracy.
what plan does anyone have to make one of these other choices viable? bonus points if it doesn’t involve trying to overhaul both the electorate and the electoral system in 9 months.
I’m just voting 3rd party or write in and telling moderates they can either start compromising with leftists and progressives or lose to fascists a second time.
As a member of one of the vulnerable groups targeted by those fascists I want to thank you for using my family’s safety as a bargaining tool. We’re happy to be sacrificed to your protest vote which will accomplish nothing.
The moderates are doing that. They elevated Trump intentionally because they thought it would make it easier to win elections. Where is your anger towards them?
i’m pissed as fuck but my anger is irrelevant, this is a matter of my survival and your privileged attempt to “punish” the moderates is putting me in immediate danger.
Have you put any energy into telling moderates they need to wake the fuck up? Did you tell anyone they were an asshole for voting for Biden in the 2020 primaries?
Moderates aren’t losing much. They’re not the type to care about leftists losing or rightists losing.
Come to me with your plan to convince 160 million people to vote 3rd party and then I’ll take this seriously.
Better yet, they should come to us with the plan that’s going to make ANY of the Democrats or Republicans work with a 3rd party president to allow them to get anything done. Even if some insane miracle occurred, and a 3rd party candidate got elected president, they would accomplish absolutely nothing, as it is not in the political interest of either Democrats or Republicans to work with them. In spite of what Trump would like people to believe, presidents are not dictators and can’t just do whatever the hell they want. All of the people endlessly screaming about how there are more choices simply refuse to accept this fact.
Is your plan to vote based on how everyone else votes? Seems like a great way to reinforce a two party system.
Sounds like you’re ok with Trump winning then.
That’s what you’re gonna get, unless you think the Republicans are going to infight like this (non-spoiler-because-duh, they aren’t)
My plan is to pick a check box without the name Biden or Trump, or maybe write someone in. Being institutionalized into thinking a vote for anyone other than Biden is a vote for Trump is a pathway to madness
But that’s how FPTP works. Any one less vote for Biden is by default an extra vote for Trump. Unless of course, you’re not an immigrant, woman, transgender, gay, or any other minority. Then of course, Trump being in office means nothing to you so you do you. The rest of us have to suffer the consequences of having the country’s judicial, legislative, and executive branches stacked with Christian cripto-fascists hell bent on sending us back to the middle ages. Sorry the Revolution isn’t radical enough with Biden I guess.
This might be an instance where a good portion of the country might actually agree that the two major party candidates are jackasses. I remain hopeful.
Fetterman’s trolling is a great way to find the tankies. 🤣
He’s not entirely wrong. I’ve been critical of Biden myself, but it is because I am concerned about Biden’s ability to beat Trump. I want Biden to be a stronger candidate, and a stronger leader for that matter. Criticizing Biden is the best way I know to make him to better than he’s doing now. Poking holes in candidates is my love language.
But I’m a nobody. I don’t make headlines when I point out his flaws. Maybe somebody somewhere will read something I wrote, or at a minimum it becomes part of the rising din of concern, and Biden is forced to make an effort to speak to my concerns. That’s the best I can hope for.
I’m not backing an alternative candidate. I’m not calling for him to step aside or resign. I’m not suggesting we all throw our votes away on some long shot third party candidate. Anybody who is doing those things is helping Trump. And it’s hard not to think that they don’t know they are helping Trump, which makes it hard not to think that their intent is to help Trump.
So while I think Fetterman ought to be more specific with his criticism of critics, I don’t disagree that there are people who fit his accusation. I also think there are far more reasonable progressives and moderates who have voiced legitimate concerns that Biden should do well to hear. Hillary ignored many of those same criticisms, to the peril of all Americans. America would be a much better place if Democrats tried harder to be more than just the lesser bad option. “At least we’re not traitorous rapists” isn’t a campaign slogan that inspires confidence.
It’s a primary. Vote for whoever you want.
Always vote for whoever you want. That’s how voting works.
But know what you’re voting for. Know who you’re voting for. Our electoral system is inherently flawed.
Voting for some schmuck running against Biden in the primary might make you feel good about protesting one or more of Biden’s policies. His support of Israel, his approach to border policies, his inaction on any number of progressive issues, whatever the objection, who else are you going to vote for? I know there is the pro-Palestine contingent in Michigan promoting a “none of the above” campaign, which is effective at registering your complaint.
But in the general election, it’s time to put away such petty animus and defeat the orange monster that will destroy everything.
I chose “none,” since I’ll be stuck voting for Joe in November anyway.
I mean, what’s his point we should never bitch about it when biting the shit we don’t like? I have a novel idea, maybe he should start focusing on public approval instead of you demanding that the public blindly approve of everything he does.
Yeah, I’m going to vote for him because the alternative is a bad fucking idea.
Is criticism isn’t out of left field He’s earned this shit. It’s not that he’s an irredivable president, but a significant amount of his campaign is not being Trump. And still we hope all the hell that that’s enough.
I’m still on the fence about whether I can stomach knowing that I voted for the genocidal monster that can barely remember his name because he’s better than the fascist genocidal monster that wants to end whatever semblance of democracy we might have. This country is just the worst.
But he’s the lesser of two evils! Doesn’t that get you motivated to get to the polls on November? Lesser!
It really should.
And yet, it doesn’t. It’s incredibly easy to not choose either, believe it or not.
It’s unfortunately nothing new, but I do think the alternative is a new level of bad.
You’d prefer to have voted for Trump?
These kinds of comments are getting obvious. You’re string here bitching about Biden, when we can all agree the alternative would be worse.
Go peddle your bullshit elsewhere.
It could be worse. We could have a dictator that regulates literally everything we do. My porn is anonymous for now.
Literally every single US president since 1948 has assisted Israel in committing genocide against Palestinians. Don’t clutch your pearls now.
“That’s the way we’ve always done it” - people who like the way we’ve always done it.
Genocide must stop.
WOULD YOU RATHER eat a chocolate bar off a public toilet seats lid.
OR WOULD YOU RATHER Eat a chocolate bar out of a public toilet bowl.
