WHAT
- Former U.S. President Donald J. Trump was shot at a rally in PA.
TRUMPS STATEMENT
“I want to thank The United States Secret Service, and all of Law Enforcement, for their rapid response on the shooting that just took place in Butler, Pennsylvania. Most importantly, I want to extend my condolences to the family of the person at the Rally who was killed, and also to the family of another person that was badly injured. It is incredible that such an act can take place in our Country. Nothing is known at this time about the shooter, who is now dead. I was shot with a bullet that pierced the upper part of my right ear. I knew immediately that something was wrong in that I heard a whizzing sound, shots, and immediately felt the bullet ripping through the skin. Much bleeding took place, so I realized then what was happening. GOD BLESS AMERICA!”
WHAT WE THINK WE KNOW SO FAR
- gunman is dead
- Trump “is fine”
- one attendee is dead
- another attendee is in critical condition
News Sources
- CNN - Trump rushed off stage after shooting at Pennsylvania rally
- AP News - Live updates: Shooting at Trump rally is being investigated as assassination attempt, AP sources say
- The Hill - George W. Bush condemns ‘cowardly attack’ at Trump rally
- Warren Sharp (@SharpFootball) on Xitter - video interview with witness who tried to warn police before shooting happened
- Sky News - Gunshots reportedly fired at Donald Trump rally - as former president rushed off stage (Article confirms one rally attendee dead)
- Reuters - Biden says he is grateful to hear Trump is safe, has been briefed on shooting
- OAlexanderDK on Xitter - The shooter was on a roof approximately 125m or 400ft from where Trump was standing.
- JakeMRosen on Xitter - An emergency room doctor I spoke with tried to save someone’s life in the crowd
Do not advocate or celebrate violence, please. Comments advocating violence will be deleted and bans will be issued
How do the people get justice for a convicted criminal that’s above the law? Is there a reason why the constitution has an amendment for guns? Why are so many platforms against the constitution and against the need for correct course when apt?
Stop acting like corpo reddit admins and mods.
“Convicted criminal” who is “above the law?”
Seems like he was convicted, thus not above the law.
You keep him from being president by getting enough people to vote against him, or you accept the will of the people.
The 2nd Amendment was originally to make sure militias weren’t disarmed, in a time when militias were more relevant. Has nothing to do with political assassination.
Do you think a convicted criminal should be walking around free?
While they await sentencing? If a judge allows it, obviously yes. People have lives and jobs, if they might not even get prison time it would be cruel to force them into all the downsides of prison time (lose your job, child care difficulties) and then let them go.
Trump would be more impacted by his inability to campaign, but we only have one justice system and I don’t want to betray my beliefs on how the justice system works just because I don’t like this guy’s politics.
Most sit in jail until sentencing, and the time spent waiting will be accounted with the sentencing. I say most, because only the king walks around free.
Also convicted criminals people should not run for president. The corrupted courts made a new law, something they don’t have the power to do, where the criminals can run, explicitly the hitler felon.
Also convicted criminals people should not run for president. The corrupted courts made a new law, something they don’t have the power to do, where the criminals can run, explicitly the hitler felon.
No, they didn’t. There’s just nothing that requires a candidate for president not be a convicted felon, other than the willingness of people to vote for them.
How about when said political candidate openly calls for violence and murder against his opponents, to the point of asking the Supreme Court if he could assassinate people.
Maybe the 2nd amendment comes in to play a little? Last I checked we didn’t vote king George off our shores.
But we did vote Trump out of office, and he left. That’s the difference between Republics and Monarchies.
We also voted Gore IN office but whatever.
Orange Julius has become a cult god and is literally talking about assassinating rivals
…that’s the difference between republics and monarchies
Also this has been an oligarchy the whole time anyone who thinks republic is either willfully or unintentionally ignorant
He left after his last stand Jan 6. There is lots of news coverage of that, with many arrested as well. There are plenty of vids of Trump talking about Jan 6 people, not condemning them.
Also answer one question: What was Trump asking Pence to do on Jan 6?
Um, no. The SCOTUS ruling, Project 25 and The Fascism must be stopped before war breaks out. Besides, they already threatened to kill anyone opposed to it when they reach power.
Ban me.
Um, no. The SCOTUS ruling, Project 25 and The Fascism must be stopped before war breaks out. Besides, they already threatened to kill anyone opposed to it when they reach power.
Ban me.
Mods explain why this was this taken down?
Original comment was removed for violating Lemmy’s content policy, and subsequent comment was removed for reposting the original.
Um, no. The SCOTUS ruling, Project 25 and The Fascism must be stopped before war breaks out. Besides, they already threatened to kill anyone opposed to it when they reach power.
Ban me.
How does this violate Lemmy’s content policy? To clarify, I am quoting a comment and asking for transparency, not reposting.
The post in question was removed for advocating violence. The mod log is public, including the original content, so it is not necessary to repost a removed comment for transparency.
I’m still here I see. Here’s the precious source since I’m full of shit.
NEW YORK — The leader of a conservative think tank orchestrating plans for a massive overhaul of the federal government in the event of a Republican presidential win said that the country is in the midst of a “second American Revolution” that will be bloodless “if the left allows it to be.”
Why, exactly, should we simply lie over and do nothing? How is calling for violence over this bad?
He said Monday’s decision — which gives presidents broad immunity from prosecution — is “vital” to ensure a president won’t have to “second guess, triple guess every decision they’re making in their official capacity.”
😬😬😬
Yeah, last thing I want is for the president to have to think through their decisions.
ALL RIGHTS ARE WON THROUGH VIOLENCE
How do you spread a conspiracy? I think you mean speculation.
My friend, you know exactly what they mean. Don’t push a “well maybe somebody set it up because …” theory unless you have facts to back it up.
I would like facts that back up you claim to know what your “friend” was thinking
Obviously someone set this up, bullets don’t just appear out of nowhere. It may have just been the gunman who acted entirely alone. We have no evidence that anyone worked with the gunman but what’s that saying about the absence of evidence?
The issue is the volume of comments about this being faked entirely or a false flag.
Yeah but there’s also no evidence that this was anything other than a single person acting on their own. Most loan shooters are actually loners.
You can’t use the English language in an openly misleading fashion and expect that people are going to go along with it, not in a situation like this. The expression “someone set this up” clearly implies the existence of a second person.
What made you think that another person is involved? Nothing. If we were to look at historical evidence, we would find that a lot of these situations are done by so-called lone wolf attackers. So if we’re going to blindly speculate, we should at least be consistent with historical evidence, and we should certainly speak unambiguously.
I take issue with inaccurate language. This is how trains crash. A conspiracy is where 2 or more people plan something in secret. A conspiracy theory is where an outsider speculates about the nature of such plans. Also, without wanting to speculate myself, logically it was either a lone actor or a group conspiring, since it clearly wasn’t publicised in advance. I personally doubt it was some grand conspiracy.
I know you have to say this, but holy shit do I disagree.
This person advocated significant violence and contributed to the deaths and loss of human rights of thousands. A good whack of the world would turn up hungover to work tomorrow after celebrating only a few inches over.
No better fuel for an extremist ideology then having a martyr. Trump isn’t the problem, it’s the millions who listen to him.
The best thing Trump could do is just die of natural causes after a long illness, so everyone can see his death coming and get used to the idea, and with no focusing point his merry band of lunatics dissolve back into the etha. They have always existed, but Trump acts as a catalyst to get them all worked up.
People would still scream bloody conspiracy, “it wasn’t old age, he was poisoned!”
Trump is the problem since he is the leader of the cult. Without him they dont know who to follow. If Hitler had been assassinated in one the many attemps there might have still been a WW2 but depending on how early on he was assassinated millions of people would not have been killed in concentration camps. This would have been early enough to prevent much damage Trump will do. Better would have been 2016 but that didnt happen sadly.
Everyone is forgetting Ron De Santis candidacy. Trump isn’t even gone yet and another guy already tried to rise to lead MAGA.
I fully know its pleasant to fantasize about easy solutions to difficult problems, but the world isn’t that simple.
Trump is absolutely the problem when he’s the mouthpiece of American fascism. Why are we pretending his death would be bad? We’re a couple years from having concentration camps in the US if he wins and everyone’s wringing their hands over this attempt at saving millions of lives by taking one.
Yea it might cause a civil war, that looks unavoidable at this point anyway. I’d rather civil war than concentration camps
They’re still waving the Confederate flag. What makes you think bullets will kill this ideology in round 2?
It would silence one of the most successful voices and hamper the movement, not kill the ideology itself.
And how do you kill the ideology? By having the most successful voice of it ultimately accomplish nothing and die as a sad old man.
There’s a reason his rhetoric has been: “The election was stolen!” Because that feeling is powerful, that they were right on the cusp of doing something great, if only the enemy hadn’t poisoned it. It’s got the right mix of victimization and hope that really motivates a movement. You’ll get that 10x now that he’s victimized. And you’d get it 20x if he’s martyred.
You can’t kill any ideology.
Nazis are still around.
Confederate apologists are still around.
The only effective end to the tyrrany of their ideology when it had enough momentum wasn’t strong words and voting. MAGA is about three small steps from turning the US into a literal fascist state.
The only thing that holds authoritarian regimes like the MAGA crowd together are narcissists like Trump. They would collapse without someone as good at stoking their anger, and he really is the only one that is personally revered by the MAGA crowd. Sure, other grifters make money and get ciews, but nobody cares when the other grifters like Alex Jones face some justice.
Concentration camps? Do you actually believe that or have it based on anything?
They don’t have to say that.
Didn’t know this was the “othe r/ place” now…but… Okay.
This community can be whatever it wants to be. If you want to advocate for violence you are free to do that elsewhere in the fediverse. Just not here.
Lol stfu, nobody cares about your fricked censorship
This sub has some crazy censorship. I’m pretty sure it’s all right-wing mods.
This sub has some crazy censorship. I’m pretty sure it’s all right-wing mods.
Why was this comment taken down? What rules are violated?
The user in question was banned and comments were removed for ban evasion. The mod log is public.
Was it wrong when Trump triggered Jan 6 with his calls for violence?
If yes, why do you get to call for violence?
If no, you should read more about the ramifications of Jan 6
What if we disagree with what happened on Jan 6 not because of the violence but rather because of the attempted political coup?
Personally, it’s the attempted coup that really gets my goat.
Yup, a peaceful coup would be just as bad and that is in the works through the courts and SCOTUS right now by setting the stage for Republicans to refuse to certify election results.
A reminder, he incited people Jan 6th which resulted in deaths.
That’s the wild thing.
This is a “Oh no what will Cheeto say to start a riot?”
How many deaths did it result in? Cause there is only one death on Jan 6 that has ever been attributed to Jan 6.
I don’t disagree that he incited the insurrection, but making false claims doesn’t help show that the left is the party of honesty.
Why are you pretending like right-wing violence isn’t the literal leading domestic security threat?
Have you been living under a rock since 2016?
2016? It’s been since at least the 90s.
Well, yeah, I mean, we can go back a hundred years, conservatives will always be pushing violence and division whatever era you look at since they can’t hold power without it, I mostly mean it’s come out fully into the open since 2016. The mask dropped off completely and they’re no longer even pretending to be anything but the Confederacy 2.0.
The left isn’t even a party, genius.
Hey numbnuts, America doesn’t have a left and it’s the MAGA fascists that are the problem here
The left, who? What party?
https://www.factcheck.org/2021/11/how-many-died-as-a-result-of-capitol-riot/
Babbitt plus suicides, and other “natural” deaths.
On March 7, the District of Columbia’s Police and Firefighters’ Retirement and Relief Board declared that Metropolitan Police Officer Jeffrey Smith’s suicide in the days after the Jan. 6 riot was a line-of-duty death. The board concluded “that Officer Smith sustained a personal injury on January 6, 2021, while performing his duties and that his injury was the sole and direct cause of his death.
Two wrongs do not make a right though.
Ehhhh
But 3 rights make a left
But 1 click on a windage knob would have.
This is funnier retrospectively because apparently this fucking dumbass wasn’t even using an optic. insanity
This shit was never here before because it’s likely CYA mode for Lemmy because feds could come sniffing here if copycat incidents occur.
bro the feds are already sniffing lemmy you think they arent?
They’re sniffing lemmy just like their sniffing literally every other social media platform right now.
There is a difference between background-level bulk sniffing and someone-here-maybe-incited-violence targeted sniffing. The former is data collection, which is passive in the form practiced by “the feds”. The latter is data connection, putting effort into connecting a subset of the data that has been collected to form a story. Data connections need a framing, a nucleation seed, an impetus for why the feds might think such a connection is interesting or relevant or worth adding to their story about a larger incident. Collecting data is cheap and done in bulk, partly because it can be done passively and partly because the US govt paid a lot of money on storage and collection mechanisms. Connecting data is something that requires a lot more time, effort, patience, and vetting to make sure you are doing it right.
Or you can give the job to generative AI and hope it doesn’t hallucinate that someone innocent is guilty; with a large enough data pool (ie the internet, reality, what-have-you) it’s possible to select a misleading subset to support whatever hallucination you want.
It’s easy to do wrong, which is exactly why you don’t want the feds sniffing around. Especially now that they have the tools to automate doing it wrong, and might not know how to use them yet.
yeah obviously, but it’s all the same at the end of the day. And they definitely have people actively sniffing around social media posts surrounding this at the moment.
Is it not actually called the fed…averse…
Oh so that’s why my official Lemmy moderator paycheck comes from the FBI?
(This is a joke, we are not paid)
the M stands for Money :)
fed i verse.
Federal investigation universe. Checkmate.
Violence demands self defense. Today was an act to try and save everyone.
Violence demands self defense. Today was an act to try and save everyone.
Mods explain why this was taken down?
And instead we got a guarantee of actual fascism in America. This was a stupid, selfish move.
Better than keeping quiet and hoping it gets better.
You never go full retard.
Now a single deranged person forced that path in history instead of letting democracy runs its course.
Better than keeping quiet and hoping it gets better.
Mods explain why this was taken down?
And his cult still defends the insurrectionists.
Unless it’s more convenient to call them Antifa.
Or all the domestic violence
That’s not a justification for more violence, two wrongs don’t make a right. He was wrong for doing what he did and this is wrong as well. This is because political violence in it’s entirety is wrong. Jesus, do people not have principles anymore? Seeing all the supposedly moral people turn into Q anon level conspiracy theorists who condone violence is depressing.
The death of Hitler, sadam hussein, Bin laden and all the others who threatened the free world disagree.
But these are vastly different situations. For the record, all three of these individuals used political violence to achieve political aims, that’s one of the reasons why history doesn’t remember them fondly. The constantly killed people they didn’t like under the justification that it’s for the greater good or self defense. Saddam Hussien did that when he genocided the Kurds in Iraq and the invasion Kuwait, Hitler did that with the Holocaust and the invasion of Europe, and Bin Laden did that with 9/11 and the other terrorist attacks he launched.
Keep in mind, we actually have a justice system in this country that actually works. If we want Trump to face justice it has to go through the justice where he faces trial and is found guilty based on evidence… which has already happened btw for one of his crimes. That’s how justice is handled in a civil democracy. We can’t have randos going on self righteous terrorism crusades killing political candidates they don’t like. If someone tried assassinate Biden, would you being say the same? Probably not, and rightfully so, but the terrorist who tried to kill would be making similar justifications to what you’re trying to make right now. The very idea is wrong.
Donald Trump intentionally and maliciously mishandled an epidemic and allowed it to turn pandemic for his own stupid and shortsighted political gains. He then intentionally hindered national response.
And then he intentionally incited a literal insurrection. He has absolutely employed political violence.
I’m not here to defend him. He’s one of the worst of the presidents in our history. His list of horrendous acts goes far beyond his pandemic response and the insurrection, and it goes was past his presidency too. He’s truly awful. But with that being said, things like assassinations and terrorism should not become normalized as a legitimate way of achieving political means.
free world
lmao
While its not perfect you could easily be alot more oppressed. Democracy dies when people stop fighting for it.
The US invaded Iraq under GW Bush on a lie about WMD’s. Killed Saddam and countless Iraqis, including journalists, for nothing.
The US invaded Afghanistan rather than negotiate with its ruling power to hand over Bin Laden, then didn’t get their hands on him for another decade even though the US won the war and took over the country from day 1. 20+ years of bloody occupation later you lost the war and the Taliban is back in power. Another pointess war started with deception.
Don’t get me started on Vietnam.
You guys have some twisted idea of democracy where the ‘Democrats’ don’t even elect their own candidates.
Please stop exporting democracy. The world doesn’t want your perverse version.
Hitler killed himself btw.
The US invaded Afghanistan rather than negotiate with its ruling power to hand over Bin Laden
To be fair, the US did try to negotiate with Afghanistan to extradite Bin Laden and the Taliban refused.
Hitler committted suicide. Any insight in how the other executions actually improved the world?
Millions of fascists were murdered to win WW2, are you saying we should’ve used strong debate language instead?
one wrong plus another wrong, generally seems to overthrow most rights throughout the history of man kind.
I’m not sure what to do with this information, but it’s present.
If by rights you mean you human rights then normalized widespread violence tends to do that, that’s the whole reason why tyranny isn’t exactly good.
if my wrongs you mean human wrongs, then i have no idea what you’re talking about.
What?
same, you and me both.
Tell me, should we have turned the other cheek during WWII? Two wrongs don’t make a right after all, right?
We didn’t join WWII because the Nazis were bad, we joined because Japan attacked Pearl Harbor and then Hitler declared war on the US.
Exactly, should’ve just turned the other cheek, right?
Really? You don’t realize that the US didn’t join a war that started in 1939 until 1941 when Japan bombed Pearl Harbor … so was only part of the war for less than 4 years?
Wow!
You inferred something about Nazis, and now what you’re saying makes no sense as a response to what I’ve been asking you.
I’ll put it more clearly so you can actually give an answer: When Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, you’re saying we should’ve turned the other cheek?
No, I’m just pointing out that your comparison is flawed. We didn’t know about the Holocaust until the war was almost over. The Soviets were the first to discover and liberate the camps back in 1944 (too bad they ended up having their own brutal camps) and the Americans liberated the first camp they discovered (Ohrdruf) in April 1945… the war in Europe was over in a month. That’s when the then general Eisenhower ordered the American soldiers to find the other camps, free the captives, and take pictures of everything they came across so Nazi crimes can be thoroughly documented and the American public can be made aware of them.
My point is that we didn’t intervene in the war because of what the Nazis were doing like you seem to imply, we intervened because we got attacked and declared war on.
We didn’t know about the Holocaust until the war was almost over.
It wasn’t *confirmed *until the war was nearly over. But even before then we knew the Axis powers were slaughtering people while they conquered Europe.
technically two negatives multiplied does.
two wrongs don’t make a right.
You’re right. But let me tell you all about the sympathy I have for him:
.
That’s about it.
That’s when you say I will happily read their obituary
I don’t have any sympathy for him either, but that’s still not a reason to abandon my principles and start cheering for political violence
I’m not cheering for political violence
I’m not saying that you are, I’m just pointing out that, in general, lack of sympathy doesn’t justify political violence. We’re in agreement here.
Why do you keep saying that when I didn’t?
Let us take this as a reminder for everyone concerned with their own safety in a fascist state.
Guns wont do shit for you unless you regularly practice your marksmanship and keep your equipment in good condition.
A fascist exercised and practiced marksmanship today, did you, dear reader?
So you’re telling me conservatives will realize this has gone to far and tell everyone to remain calm and peaceful?
The reasonable conservatives have already jumped off ship a long time ago and are now mostly either apolitical, independent, disenfranchised Democrat, or still a minority Republican opposing Trump. The only ones left that support Trump are his cult, and they will never see reason. However, we can’t get rid them with violence. It’s like what America tried to do with the Taliban or Israel is trying to do now with Hamas or what Saudi Arabia has tried to do with the Houthis, you can’t use violence to get rid of ideologies. The way to get rid of ideologies is to make them irrelevant. This can happen either by defeating them in democratic elections or using their track records to delegitimatize them or ignoring them or providing better alternatives or whatever. Political violence will only fuel them, and that is something I don’t want to see.
Mhmm. Where exactly do you draw the line regarding use of force as a preventative measure?
When it’s used as a means to achieve power in a democracy. Normalizing violence is not okay in general, but especially during democratic elections, and this applies to everybody regardless of who does it.
A wrong makes a right if it prevents many many horrible wrongs in the future.
The ends don’t justify the means politics, that’s how you end up with terrorism, tyrannical governments, and atrocities. I’m all for bringing Trump to justice, but it has be done through civil and democratic means via the established criminal justice system. If Trump goes through trial and is found guilty, which has already happened for one of his crimes, then our criminal justice system will punish him accordingly. If the punishments aren’t deemed harsh enough then we reform our punitive laws. We can’t have self righteous assholes going on terrorism crusades assassinating political candidates they don’t like. That’s a sign of a failed state.
Tyrannical governments rise from apathy. The final governmental check is its people.
True, which is why now is the most important time to condemn political violence, get people politically active, and vote to keep the fascist wannabes out of power.
I didn’t say it was. You just put those words in my mouth.
Ikr!
All rights are won through violence, child. Bans on here means less than the nothing platitudes you utter
All rights are won through violence, child. Bans on here means less than the nothing platitudes you utter
Why was this comment taken down? This wasn’t advocating for violence, but sharing an opinion about how rights are won.
In this context, the comment appears to be advocating specific violence.
Please do not repost removed comments. You can link to the comment or mod log if there is a question about a specific moderation decision.
“no actual discussion allowed” got it
If the only way you can discuss an assassination is by advocating for additional violence and pushing lies, then I guess not?
pushing lies
How did you determine what was true in this situation and what was false? I am curious about your methodology.
True: confirmed information. False: unconfirmed information of a speculative nature. Do you see a specific issue you disagree with or are you just trying to argue?
You are just moving the problem around via definitions not actually saying what method you used to know exactly what happened yesterday.
All I asked is how you arrived at the truth. Did you see evidence that the general public didn’t? Because what I am seeing is you all are so absolutely certain you have literally compared it to Covid misinformation. Amazing, a 30 hour news event is so well understood you can compare our knowledge of it to the single most studied virus in human history months after a new variant had appeared.
It is not unreasonable how you were able to obtain information the rest of us apparently do not have and how you were able to eliminate all other alternatives so quickly.
You are limiting discussion to centrist viewpoints, centrism caters towards permissive attitudes towards fascism. You know this.
“hey guys don’t politicize an attempted political assassination”
Not really what I said at all. “Hey guys, don’t make stuff up, please rely on credible sources, and don’t advocate for violence”.
Or, in other words: follow the rules we’ve always had in place
Advocating for, or not advocating for, violence is a political stance. Many people defend Israel’s ongoing genocide and are not blocked from doing so. That doesn’t feel like the rules being consistently enforced. The people speculating on whether or not this is staged have access to the same information as everyone else, and in the spirit of true discourse, if it was seen to be false you could figure that out by discussion rather than censorship.
If you have evidence that it was staged, feel free to share it. If you don’t, then we ask that you not speculate. It’s no different than any other claim for which we’d require a basic amount of credible substantiation.
I don’t personally think it was staged, but be honest … it’s not like you delete every single comment that doesn’t have sources …
Should I start reporting every comment that doesn’t have sources? 😂😂
spreading a conspiracy
I know this is off-topic, but can we please go back to saying “conspiracy theory”? Conspiracy and conspiracy theories are not the same. There are actual conspiracies (a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful) , and there are theories of conspiracies. They should not be confused.
Why not? Isnt that what americans claim the second amendment is for?Prevent fascism?
Communism, not Fascism, or to protect workers’ rights if you go back far enough. We only got involved in fighting fascism because we were drawn into the war, otherwise it’s never been that big of an issue to Americans and many schools aren’t even allowed to teach about it anymore because “kids shouldn’t have to feel bad about something like that” or whatever excuses the far right is currently using to prevent their schools from teaching about Anne Frank, concentration camps, slavery, anything else they want to implement themselves.
Sic semper tyrannis.
Talk shit get shot.
Lemmy users when they can’t advocate violence:
young_guy_straining.jpg
Advocating for violence to prevent a fascist from abolishing the democracy is the only acceptable violence. Sometimes a democracy has to be protected violently if it is too weak to protect itself. Trump allies always say its why they have the second amendment. Now that it is used against them they cry about it.
Violence is rarely good for anything as we have seen it just now. It would be better even if this guy shot at Biden that’s how counterproductive it is.
Modern problems aren’t solved with blood but with marketing. You cannot kill an idea but you can ridicule it
You cannot just eradicate everyone who opposes you. China tried, Soviets too. Now they have something vastly better - troll farms.
Your last point is actually not a bad analysis - but it is missing that the ones operating their propaganda and troll farms already also control the violence monopoly. And both entities also use violence where they deem it practical.
Lol how kind of you, thank you I guess
Modern problems aren’t solved with blood but with marketing.
Tell that to the Ukrainians and the Palestinians. I know you want this to be the case, but you couldn’t be more wrong if you tried.
In both cases they didn’t solve anything and only made things worse for themselves
You’re right, better to allow a violent oppressor to slowly eradicate your people than attempt to free or defend yourself by whatever means necessary…
Eh I think you guys see what you want to see in my comment. I was talking about Russia. putin attacked Ukraine, it was insane in any case and what did he got out of it really?
The violence on Ukraine was just plain stupid.
I am kinda surprised and amused you take me for some pacifist goodie two shoes, other cheek blah blah. funny from my pov. Idk how you extracted that from my comment, I bet you will now continue to argue with something that doesn’t exist. My congratulations
Appeasement of an aggressor never works. History has taught this over and over and over again. We still haven’t learned I see. I’m mainly talking about Ukraine. Palestine is a lot more complex.
Not sure what you mean, but Ukraine and Zelensky have been marketing themselves all over the place. They need all the help they can get, and they are doing whatever they can to boost support. So far pootin hasn’t achieved his goals so it’s working.
Everybody thinks their form of violence is the only acceptable violence.
The paradox of tolerance is only a paradox if you don’t believe in the social contract.
Beliefs that violate the social contract deserve no protection under it.
Any word on how the attendees got shot? Can’t see anything in articles
Reddit’s megathread on this is already broken. Just goes to show how terrible it is, you’d think after all this time they’d figure out how to run a website…
If the gunman is dead, and Richard Simmons is dead… Was it him?
I’ve been wondering where the crazies were on the left, and now i know
Got him in the ear, huh?
Too convenient.
Nobody is a good enough shot to risk grazing someone in the head without injuring them.
Someone almost certainly tried assassinating Trump and failed. It’s shocking that it was possible, and the Secret Service has a lot to answer for if it’s true that someone was able to get on a rooftop with line of sight of a former President delivering a speech. It’s hard to express how good they are at preventing opportunities for snipers these days.
If the counter-sniper team is the group who killed the assassin, it was the first time they’ve ever had to fire their weapons outside of training.
No, but a bad shooter could try to miss close to make it look legit and accidentally hit his ear. Trump didn’t have to be hit, just come close.
I’m betting you don’t shoot rifles of any sort.
Right cause the guy just wanted to scare him then die
At 100+ yards hitting the ear on a head sized target is incredibly reasonable. This shouldn’t be used as a point of conspiracy.
“Friends, Americans, and countrymen; lend me your ears!”
I can’t wait for Trump to turn pro-gun control.
The bump stock ban overturned by the Supreme Court was put in place by Trump. He is not pro-gun.
He’s not pro-gun. Neither is he anti-gun.
He’s pro-Trump. He’ll say anything if he thinks he’ll get more money (and now, enough votes to escape his crimes). You won’t find a single issue he hasn’t flip-flopped on except “How can this make Trump richer?”
He’s not pro-gun.
I just said that.
Neither is he anti-gun.
I’m not very convinced of that.
“It takes so long to go to court to get the due process procedures I like taking the guns early like in this crazy man’s case that just took place in Florida he had a lot of firearms and they saw everything to go to court would have taken a long, long time so you could exactly what you’re saying but take the guns first, go through due process second.” - Trump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du4xz6Lndxk&t=43sHe’s pro-Trump.
I wouldn’t argue with that.
Nah, they’ll just say they need more guns.
But he’s always been pro gun control?
So is anything came out from this?
Wouldn’t be the first time. Conservatives are conservative up until the moment someone uses freedom from government oversight in a way that hurts or inconveniences them. Then they’re all, “There oughta be a law against blah blah blah” without an iota of self-awareness.
I like it when they say it’s not about guns, it’s about mental health and then you say okay, let’s have universal healthcare and they say, “no, not like that!”
Right? I’m 100% ready to agree with them on the mental health aspect, let’s address that by giving people healthcare and access to food and housing
But that’s not cruel enough for them
Man, I would love to watch his supporters work through the dissonance on that one. On one hand, they already chose Trump over their god… On the other hand, “come and take it” culture is right up there with evangelicalism as far as being really ingrained.
Sure Trump wants to take some of our guns, but Biden wants to take them all!
I love when people downvote your comments as if half the shit you say on here isn’t facetious.
Guys, I’m pretty sure they don’t actually think Biden is going to take your guns
Nobody understands me.
“Trump only wants to take the guns from those people, not us!”
Conveniently ignoring the circle of who qualifies as those people is ever expanding…
Trump’s gun control: if white and conservative, you can own any firearm, if not, good luck
LOL, Trump’s shooter was unironically white and registered Republican.
No wonder I don’t hear much about his identity from the GOP…
Trump was harder on guns than Obama was.
He literally said “take the guns, then do process [sic]” years ago
then do process
Heads up, it’s due process because it’s the process you’re due (the process you’re entitled to or that’s proper, expected, etc), not the process you’re doing.
[sic] means they’re quoting as originally said, including mistakes.
I know, however I looked it up to see the context and it sounds like it was part of a spoken conversation, not written text. As such, the [sic] doesn’t make sense.
You’re right.
He misspelled it when he spoke it? Because they are pronounced the same. And that’s not even the correct quote. So what is the [sic] for?
You’d have to ask Assman.
Also wouldn’t the [sic] be directly after “do” and not “process”?
Could’ve been a tweet/toot.
Alright, let’s get it out ahead of time, since I’m already seeing this:
It’s probably not staged. Trump reacts quickly - the fuck kind of timing you think that bloated potato has? To lift his hand to his ear just as the gunshot rings out? And the idea that the shooter grazed him on purpose is, likewise, absurd. The kind of risk that would entail, to just nick his ear?
Whether the shooter was insane or politically motivated, this is a real event.
It’s probably not staged. Trump reacts quickly - the fuck kind of timing you think that bloated potato has?
it’s absolutely what you would expect the reaction to be. Much like burning your hand on a stove where your brain deals with the situation a lot quicker than you can logically process it, these kinds of injuries can do the same thing. It’s more than likely the people surrounding him that clued him in on it quicker than anything. That’s the one thing you would be prepared to expect.
I said this in another one of these threads- it is not at all outlandish to think that someone unhinged with a gun would see the threat of a fascist dictator and decide to do something about it.
The right has been agitating for stochastic terrorism for about sixteen god damn years. Well, they got it.
It’s likely a good thing the guy missed. Trump being assassinated might just kick off the open violence that has been brewing. Still might, but it’ll depend on the next couple of days. If that dude turns out to be a left-winger, and Trump makes no attempt to stop it, I could see things getting very, very ugly.
it happens a lot more than you would think throughout american history, sometimes with guns, sometimes without. Obama had 8 attempts throughout his terms in office. Biden has had one so far, trump has had a few, nothing more significant than obama though, except for maybe being shot, just barely.
I’m not sure it would even take someone unhinged.
Yeah, I remember my grandfather telling the story of how Hitler held a speech at a Stadium that was visible from his attic window, and his biggest regret was, that he did not have a machinegun to take him and the other Nazi officials with him out. The US has enough guns and desperation for someone to attempt this, definitely.
What year was that?
I don’t remember him mentioning the exact year, it’s been ages and I was a child still when he was still alive, but I know it was before the Machtergreifung, because he told it as having been a rally during an election campaign, eerily fitting, I guess.
It’s a very common gut reaction to assume something like this has to be “staged”, I said it in the other thread in some discussions: It’s understandable to have it as this feeling. But everyone who feels that way: take a breath, remember the world is much more chaotic and much less controlled than you think, you don’t have to think of yourself as stupid for thinking it, but wait for more information to come out and be ready to give it up then.
Reacting properly to this new reality is much more important, than trying to adjust reality to fit an emotion. It’s human to do that, react instinctively in a first gut reaction, but it is also human to be able to let go of that.
I agree. We’re all just processing this and should probably take a break and come back when there is more info and we can think critically. That said, this is very scary, like, I feel like my physical safety is at risk because of this. So, not knowing what others are going through, I’m going to have some compassion for any initial reactions. People are having these same discussions face to face right now but not everyone can do that and may need to.
the way i like to look at it, is that it doesn’t matter whether it was staged or not, it still happened. People still died, people still evacuated, trump still got shot, none of that changes.
If it does, you’re doing a conspiracy theory, and you should stop.
I think it absolutely does matter for the political conclusions.
But at the very least it is far to early to get into these conspiracies, even if the events had unfolded very differently like the bullets not hitting anywhere close.
However given what we already know and what was caught by dozens of cameras, all the points the conspiracy theorists are coming up with are just insane.
I’m the spirit of not promoting violence, I’d like to promote the alternative of the Alex Jones treatment. Gaslight the fucker and set a conspiracy in motion to hound him the rest of his days.
I am hoping it results in visible signs of PTSD. That would be a modern Tar & Feathering.
It seems far more likely that Trump has some sort of quantum immortality than this being staged. Truly an insane shot to miss so narrowly while still grazing. I get why it makes people scratch their head. It will be interesting to see what happens.
Yeah, a 120 meter shot to graze does not exist. One inch to the right and he’s dead. With wind variables and stuff, the shooter who can reliably pull that off in one shot or volley does not exist.
If it was staged, the only feasible way would be that he wasn’t shot at all and all we saw was fake blood. Regardless, I don’t think it was actually staged
Genuinely infurating that the moment anything happens, NeoLibs will just start copying right-wing talking points.
Will or they did? Any examples?
If you check the modlog, before the Mods here started removing them, dozens of commenters said its a false flag, set up by trump.
Here’s a screenshot of it happening on PoliticalMemes. EDIT: need to reupload https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/9664605
And here’s some screenshots of the mod logs:
This isn’t getting into the ones on Mastodon and Twitter who also repeated the same Alex Jones level.
And how do you know they are NeoLibs?
On twitter/Mastodon with 🇺🇦 🇮🇱 in their profiles, and treating any valid criticisms of Biden are actually by Russian bots.
That’s why I consider them NeoLibs.
I asked about the ones you quoted.
I see, so you just use the term “NeoLib” to mean “people you disagree with” rather than “people with neoliberal political beliefs”
If it advocates for Neoliberal polices, speaks for Neoliberal polices, defends Neoliberal polices, yeah I do. Take your concern trolling elsewhere. I’m not going to bootlick for Reagan and every president afterwards.
I love lemm.ee
Yhe mod log is available for all to see. You can even search by username.
Only one ban so far, I think I’m doing good!
If it was staged then they are playing a very risky game. It doesn’t take much error to make a bullet that grazes your ear dome you. It’s basically certain that this wasn’t staged.
If it was staged the shooter would never shoot at Trump but into the crowd (as he did, people died). And Trump reaches up after hearing the first shot to nick his own ear to draw a tiny trickle of blood.
Seriously, 100+ yard shot and the bullet perfectly grazes the ear in a way that there is no visible damage, just a bit of blood? When seeing the video I instantly called bullshit, it’s just too perfect.
I’m pretty much 50/50 on this being staged or not. Trump is a liar and doesn’t care if other people got hurt. The timing is suspicious too, convicted felon and right now it’s in the news cycle that he raped a 13 year old.
Plus, the rally attendee being confirmed dead. Someone shot at him, 100%.
Do we know yet whether the would-be assassin or Secret Service hit the bystander? I was driving when it happened and am still getting up to speed
You’re still getting up to speed? You might want to buy a new car, mate.
Same. And same with Biden. When asked, he said “I have an opinion but we’ll wait for the facts to come out.”
The county DA says the gunman was on the roof of a nearby building, so it’s unlikely that the audience members were in the shooter’s line of fire. More likely the SS (or someone else with a gun) mistook an audience member for the shooter.
Or the shooter fired multiple shots and some went into the crowd.
That was one of my theories, too, but I didn’t want to be the first to say it. It’d be a heavy load to carry, knowing you shot an innocent person like that.
I mean, if you’re so far gone that you’re attempting to assassinate a political figure, you’re probably okay with a little collateral damage. Especially if that collateral is a supporter of said politician.
I was talking about if it had been a member of the Secret Service that misidentified the guy as the shooter
if the shooters on a rooftop, and firing down on trump, it’s absolutely possible it could catch someone on it’s way down, either through ricochet or something.
Though like you said, this can also be due to SS reaction as well.
HitlersTrumps SS
Thanks. Added your link and context to the mega thread
I don’t doubt that the shooter was genuinely trying to kill him. But I also suspect there are a lot of Republicans and Democrats who would be secretly thrilled if their own party’s candidate were assassinated.
All or nothing. If you assassinate one you gotta assassinate the other too or no deal
Two for the price of one! Nah real talk biden sucks but he doesn’t deserve to get assassinated.
Gotta succeed at one before going for even Stevens.
Thank you. And fuck the idiots spouting off with the “staged” nonsense. The time to believe something is staged is when you have evidence that it was.
i mean honestly, it’s scary, but it’s also not a good time to be an american right now, from the immunity rulling to the jan 6th delays, and all the other bullshit going on, things seem to be getting vastly more interesting now than they were just a few months ago.
Oh, it’s all tongue-in-cheek, and yet: quid pro quo.
People are obviously on high alert, considering how far Trump is willing to go given Jan 6th. From the Reichstag fire to the Russian apartment bombings, such events manufactured or actual have profound impact on public perception and action. Naomi Klein’s (not to be confused with the nut job Naomi Wolf) The Shock Doctrine details this well.
No sign this was a false flag, but holy fuck does it have terrible implications.
Trump’s entire persona is built on lies, it shouldn’t be a surprise that it’s many people’s first thought.
But it shouldn’t be. He shows no signs - cognitively speaking - of being capable of putting something like this together as a stage-managed event, and all of his past stage-managed events have been shitshows because he micromanages everything and he’s incompetent.
Yeah, if you’re going to stage a fake assassination, you don’t fire a bullet a couple inches away from a kill shot. It’s crazy how close this was to a successful attempt.
I bet there will be a retaliatory attack on his Biden
I only vote for candidates who people aren’t shooting at.
Welp, seems like that’s it boys. Trump’s got this all locked up.
I didn’t need this fucking stress on top of everything else. I only hope that the poll bump he’ll get for this is short-lived.
The great recession, a global pandemic, and now a second American civil war. I want off this train.
Dark times (including a now virtually guaranteed Trump presidency) ahead.
RIP to the USA.
Did you guys hear Richard Simmons died? So sad.
