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Lifetime domestic violence rates among men, even adjusting for unreported events, is around half that of women.
That means that the answer to “why is my wife yelling at me?” is about half as likely to be “domestic abuse” than it is for “why is my husband yelling at me?”
Context is crucial for establishing double standards.
Your second sentence does not follow logically from your first though. A randomly selected male might be half as likely as a randomly selected woman to be a victim of domestic violence, but what a man in the far smaller set of people who have googled that particular phrase? I would venture to say the ratio might be a lot closer
You may be right (and that’s a thing I hadn’t considered, thank you!) but I worry that getting it wrong means you’re adding to noise and masking the message underneath a veneer of familiarity (how many compulsive gamblers see the “Gambling problem?” message at the bottom of casino billboards? How many smokers read the surgeon general’s warning?).
To get that calibrated correctly, you’d need some research; but the data on why a person searches a particular search term is definitely going to be skewed in this instance by a flood of people searching these two terms to compare the results.
Look. For any given person, their domestic violence rate is either zero, or one.
Statistics aren’t the end of the story here, or even relevant honestly.
They’re absolutely relevant when you’re talking about building a user interface for billions of people. You could put a domestic abuse warning on every single search result page, or you could put it on no pages, or you could put it on a subset of all results; and when you’re already putting it on a subset of all results, you’re making a decision as to which queries to exclude it from, which means you need statistics to decide which pages need it the most.
Question how does one adjust for ‘unreported events’. It’d be like 50% of the universe is female when adjusting for Alien Life forms.
Usually by using the most generous estimates that come from looking at the statistical differences between stats like actual reports and results from anonymous studies, that’s just 2 examples, I’m sure staticians use way more data, and then turn that into “for every reported x, there’s y unreported” then you just apply the pre-algebra and compare the adjusted number to which ever stat for women (the unfair answer here is then not adjusting for unreported in women, which would probably be a lower number than men but still)
Based on the statistics I could find, the domestic abuse victim numbers seem to be about 45/55% men/women. Exact statistics will differ based on your local area, of course.
Physical violence is reported much rarer by men than women (physical strength helps a lot here) but I don’t see why you would need to be seriously hurt to get help from a help line.
“Dear god! The patriarchy! Men have it so easy!”
Right? With all the shelters that turn men away, all the shame a man gets for being abused by a woman…Yeah…we totally live in patriarchy, right?
You know that it’s entirely possible to live in a generally patriarchal society, while some men have it shit, right? No one is arguing that we live in absolute patriarchy.
Men are stronger and don’t carry the species’ children, so nature is a bit biased towards them in some ways. But you’re right, it’s not easy. That just explains why it’s mostly men that rise to the very top. There’s a lot of society below that top that gets conveniently ignored in these discussions, including a lot of ditch digging.
Damn, this place just kinda is reddit 2.0, huh? You’re still gonna get the same fundamental person posting something to the wrong board, ragebait, to quick kind of snippit, to misunderstanding kind of cycle. If you post any, small or large, fraction of your worldview, you will inevitably get someone taking it out of context, misunderstanding it, or extrapolating off of it, substituting their own worldview for yours because you didn’t provide your entire worldview in an entire reddit comment that they could just kind of piecemeal respond to one by one rather than kind of comprehending it as a whole and then actually responding to it. Regardless of whether or not you provide all of it, even, people consume it piecemeal, they’re incapable of doing otherwise.
My brain is so fried, I fuckin hate the internet so much. Do we want to change this outcome, or is this outcome actually good? I don’t fucking know, google probably don’t know either. If you hit me with the 50/50 abuse stats, cause the men don’t report abuse, then I can hit you with the oh well men are more capable of like causing financial or physical harm with their abuse because of power dynamic. And then you can hit me with oh well that’s kind of a fucked up collectivist analysis to refer to this that way because that’s evaluating every group as a whole, and also that might not be correct even. And then I’m gonna hit you with the oh well I thought we were prescribing a collective top down kind of solution based on this bifurcation here. And then you’re gonna be like, oh, well, I thought you were kind of saying that men just don’t deserve help in these circumstances because that’s what your position was advocating for. And then I’m gonna be like nah not really but I can kinda see where you were coming from because the post is about how like oh this is an unreasonable decision and I’m saying well hold up maybe it’s reasonable.
This is a false dichotomy, is what I think. There are no real trolley problems. Nobody’s help has to come at someone else’s expense. There are only mutually beneficial solutions. Other solutions aren’t real solutions on the basis that they are harmful. I have to believe this or else everything kind of falls apart. I dunno, maybe you believe there are no solutions, only tradeoffs, like that libbed up POS thomas sowell.
I dunno, could we not just, probably figure out the gender of the person making this google search, and tailor their results, like we do for fucking everything else? Could we not probably just expect that if people need marriage counseling, or need some sort of domestic abuse hotline, they’ll search “marriage counseling”, or “domestic abuse help”, or something like that? Can we maybe think that, I dunno, if someone is having a major episode with domestic abuse, maybe the police should be able to help them with that, maybe their support network should be able to help them with that, maybe google shouldn’t be the thing that’s expected to solve all their problems?
But then, if I say all that, make those points, then oh, I’m living in fairy land, and my solutions are unrealistic, and it’s easier to try to ask a theoretical google search engine programmer to fix this very minor problem that is realistically just a kind of band-aid on the buckling crack on the face of the hoover dam. Every fuckin thing affects every other fuckin thing. You ask me about this minor thing, and instead of talking about this minor thing, we gotta blow it up into how life sucks for men and shit cause they can’t report domestic abuse, and that’s just one facet of how men are getting fucked up by everything. I dunno man! I dunno how to solve that! Gender inequality! Can’t we just hit the big red button that says “solve gender inequality” and that will immediately solve everything, obviously, right? Like c’mon, it’s so easy, obviously.
This kinda shit is just annoying cause it feels like nobody has a really good framework for filing this kinda shit away. Oh, yeah, men have problems with overly sealing their emotions, cause we can just kinda, broadly gesture towards patriarchy on that one, and then kind of just provide reasons for why patriarchy exists, and then kind of extrapolate based on that shared establishing on the problem, into what some possible solutions might be. Like instead we’re just gonna spend a million eons debating whether or not patriarchy exists in the first place for the same reason that everyone can call some shit woke, and then two people hear two wildly different things even though the word might have the same literal meaning.
I say patriarchy, one person hears “oh the institution that kind of benefits all men broadly” and one person hears “oh the bullshit idea that there’s an institution that benefits all men broadly”. I’m like what are we talking about, do I have to get into pay gaps, and then I have to get into specific studies on specific pay gaps, and then as we kind of dynamically litigate this argument it’s going to kind of come about that oops this study has problems, dismissed, oops this other study also has problems, dismissed, forever on, eternally, and therefore, my perspective is right, instead of us all just kind of admitting we don’t know shit and then kind of like turning it back to, well, what would be the best thing to do in absence of clear evidence one way or the other?
I dunno man, I have internet brainworms and the peanut gallery is living in my brain rent free. I’m just tired that everything has to be an argument and not an actual conversation where people are asking curious questions in good faith. Welcome to life, though. Don’t let the doctor slap your ass on the way out the birth canal or whatever.
The whole thing is fucked all to hell and we have a whole bunch of people afraid of the other gender perpetuating this nightmare of violence, abuse, unhinged reality, and inequality. These violent delights, have violent ends.
However, we can choose to see the beauty in the world. We can love each other, laugh, teach, revel in the mysteries, and hold each other in comfort. There is so much we have achieved as a species, but we are also so good at holding ourselves back. Sometimes, we just need to crash in to each other. To get some kind of connection, even if it is the wrong one.
There is so much more to say, but painting the universe takes time. Go. Be beautiful my friend, and good night.
While you’re playing with Google, maybe look up the definition of a double standard. Then maybe search for the statistics on domestic violence. I’ll give you one for free:
“72% of all murder-suicides involve an intimate partner; 94% of the victims of these murder suicides are female.“
Should there be a hotline for both cases? Yes. But your approach is obnoxious when women are more likely to be victims of domestic violence.
So those 6% of men don’t deserve support or empathy when they die? What are you saying here?
In Australia one third of DV victims are men. This is according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, from hospitalisations, murders and call outs by police. The CDC in the US found similar rates, NZ was even higher.
All you have to do is actually finish reading their comment before you rush to make a reply that makes it obvious you didn’t:
Should there be a hotline for both cases? Yes.
They called the promotion of hotlines “obnoxious” for men, so I don’t think they’re very sympathetic at all actually.
Or perhaps, and hear me out, it could also be that men don’t speak up as often. Maybe they don’t die as often! Its almost like modern statistics on these topics have to consider the non reporting rate.
WHY DOES SOMEONE HAVE TO DIE FOR THEM TO BE ABUSED “BAD ENOUGH” TO DESERVE HOTLINE REPRESENTATION?
So why isn’t domestic abuse listed at all for when it’s the woman yelling?
Statistics don’t make double standards ok.
It seems like you’re attempting to say this kind of thing is ok because “only” 25% of men are victims.
Shameful.
His argument is the exact same argument people use to justify racism.
Except one is “most cases are like this, so let’s help them”, and the other is “most cases are like this, so let’s hurt them”
It isn’t though? The post is advocating that everyone should receive help, while the comment is trying to justify the way it currently is.
The resource is provided to the majority case where the woman is the victim. It tries to help a demographic that is statistically more in need.
Everyone should receive help, as also stated in the comment, but to fault the algorithm for not providing the resource to the minority case can be compared to asserting that “all lives matter” in a police brutality context. They do, but white people aren’t as often victimized so you can’t fault someone for focusing their support on the black community.
I’m for providing support for male victims of domestic abuse just as I’m for supporting white victims of police brutality but you shouldn’t get worked up over people prioritizing helping the demographic that needs it the most
You are mistaken that the discrepancy is the result of algorithmic bias. The latter image depicts a custom, hard-coded result that appears when one of preselected set of queries are searched. It was added as part of an anti-domestic violence drive. The trouble is, adding a copy of the selected queries with substituted gendered language (e.g., substituting “husband” with “wife”, “man” with “woman”, etc.) would have taken all of 10 minutes. It’s not surprising that most are unsympathetic to this excuse.
You did not just. Lmao.
Get some perspective.
It’s literally the 13/50 shit bro,
“Despite being half of the population, 94% of murder suicides are caused by men.”
That’s what you just said.
That statistic didn’t say anything about the perpetrator’s gender. Stop trying to create controversy where there is none.
It’s not a double standard, it’s a recognition that a woman is far more likely to end up physically injured than a man
It’s treating a minority population of an issue differently. Just because a group is statistically less likely to be impacted doesn’t mean they shouldn’t receive the same resources for help.
This person just called MEN A MINORITY POPULATION
I’M FUCKING DYING 🤣
They are a minority in the statistics being cited here. You’re either not comprehending what the word minority means or you’re purposefully misusing it yourself.
Also just straight up a minority in general (from a US perspective), though only by a very slight margin. US population is ~51.5/48.5 in favor of women. Though on a worldwide scale men are instead a slight majority and women a slight minority.
No, he called men as a percentage of total domestic violence victims a minority pipulation. Your reading comprehension is… lacking.
Somebody can’t read…
You’re totally right of course.
This place is so hilariously extreme it makes Reddit takes look normal.
Please explain how they’re correct. Men are the smaller group in the statistics being cited. I didn’t think that majority and minority needed to be explained. It’s not a matter of how the groups are treated. It explains the size of their population.
Physically injured? Sure. But domestic abuse against men tends to be more psychological then physical, so it’s a bit of a bad comparison. And that’s not to mention how the statistics are skewed from men not reporting their problems because it goes against common societal views.
yeah, ironically one of the factor of men being more violent is society don’t showing them, or teaching them, how to cope with emotions in a health way, and the commenter is an example of men being less heard because always someone gonna dismiss the problem, i’m a fully beliver that if men were heard more, abuses toward woman could also fall
Yikes. Seek help, please.
If you don’t want male abuse being brought up on female abuse topics, then maybe shut the fuck up about female abuse on male abuse topics.
And where exactly have I done that?
The reply of you that I replied to, towards the guy who replied to someone doing the same thing.
It’s actively blaming the man for the woman yelling.
It’s like calling someone a dumbfuck at their funeral for dying of hypothermia in the summer.
So what you’re saying is there’s a minority, with fewer people to turn to, and we shouldn’t help them because there are “more pressing issues”… Please tell me you see the irony?
Wasn’t the whole point the rid the word of that exact feeling of helplessness and isolation?
since we’re bringing up stats. overwhelming majority of homeless people, prisoners, war victims, work accidents, and suicide victims are men. i get that men are more prone to violence, however verbal abuse often goes underreported and many studies show women are much more likely to engage in verbal abuse. my point is, both genders have issues that all stem from the same underlying problems (capitalism, healthcare, education). the reason women are often portrayed as victims is because of our cultural and genetic history, mixed with a biased media that profits off of “damstrels in distress”
both genders have issues that all stem from the same underlying problems (capitalism, healthcare, education).
How convenient of you to leave out patriarchy, which harms everyone, but benefits most men enough for them to refuse to fight against it.
agreed to an extent but patriarchy benefits the 1% at the top moreso than the average man. i agree that we live in a hypermasculine culture that harms everyone
What a toxic take. Because a smaller percentage of men are affected by violent abuse that means they shouldn’t be offered support for verbal abuse?
Google can’t possibly moderate every possible question. One is just an excerpt from a relevant website just like any other question, the other which is much more likely to be relevant to a domestic abuse resulting in death got special treatment. If you had a 1:1 with whoever from Google flagged this for special treatment I’m sure they’d be happy to add your suggestion, but the answer to your question is “more impactful changes tend to get higher priority”, and acknowledging that is not “toxic”, it’s just reality.
The best, most objective, level-headed, well-put and respectul comment on the post and you’re getting downvoted.
Love this place
They just said they should.
Well I mean it’s clear that Google thinks that women are incapable of finding help themselves and men simply don’t need the help due to their superior intelligence
Every fucking thread on Lemmy 🙄
Literally nobody is arguing this. Jesus christ half the people commenting here are either insane, pushing some agenda, or incels
Because the point of those support programs is to prevent literal physical harm, which is massively correlated to physically stronger men screaming at physically smaller women and children. (In straight couples) If your husband is yelling at you frequently, the probability is reasonably high that there will be physical harm. It’s effectively a certainty that there’s a real threat of physical harm associated with the yelling.
(In straight couples), if your wife is yelling at you, the probability is close to zero that there will be physical harm. It is also unlikely that the yelling even constitutes any threat of physical harm.
Almost no man searching that term needs or benefits from resources on being abused by their wife. Almost every woman reading searching that term does need resources on being abused by their husband.
Leaving abusers is just as difficult in emotionally abusive relationships.
Way to cherry pick the most extreme stat to disguise the fact that domestic abuse is far closer to a 50/50 split than you want to admit.
While you’re trying to be smart, maybe THINK about what you’re saying.
“Your approach is obnoxious…” Oh, I’m sorry, so we shouldn’t offer help because it doesn’t affect a majority and it’s annoying to some?
You and everyone who upvoted you is pathetic and incapable of empathy. Shame on you and everyone who agrees.
And I suspect that in those reminding 6% a good fraction is still done by male (in homosexual couples)
I dont really expect a calm discussion or response but is the issue also not a language and cultural one.
Don’t we innately - through culture - perceive and connotate “being yelled at” by femme- and masc-presenting people differently?
Hmm thats a good discussion point. I think more often than not, when a woman yells, it’s usually perceived as annoying or hysterical. Maybe taken with a rolling of eyes.
When a man yells, it’s typically seen as authoritative and important to listen to.
Your gaslighting is obnoxious.
While husband abuse does happen, it is less statistically common and statistically it’s more common for males to overpower and beat females. Google search is a system based of statistics, so that’s why there is a discrepancy
We should totally give more of a voice to males who have experienced abuse and trauma, but complaining like this doesn’t help the cause imo
Seems to have started a conversation…
@candywashing “While husband abuse does happen, it is less statistically common”
Not according to the CDC’s studies, or honestly almost every other study about the issue.
Awareness of the double standard is exactly how it will get fixed. No need to be defeatist.
But is it actually a double standard or a mirage? Its entirely possible for different responses to be justified given different underlying conditions.
It’s a double standard. Every study that looks at instances of domestic violence finds victims are about 50/50 in gender. Resources only really exist for women though.
Of the estimated 4,970 female victims of murder and nonnegligent manslaughter in 2021, data reported by law enforcement agencies indicate that 34% were killed by an intimate partner (figure 1). By comparison, about 6% of the 17,970 males murdered that year were victims of intimate partner homicide.
It might be 50/50 but it’s not equal.
https://bjs.ojp.gov/female-murder-victims-and-victim-offender-relationship-2021
Are you saying we should not help someone out if an abusive relationship unless they’re at danger of being murdered? Because that’s what I’m getting from this.
Abuse victims deserve support, regardless if their gender or risk of physical harm.
Not really, gender specific resources really only exist for women, and that’s more because men being traumatized to the point of fearing the presence of women at all is much less spoken of than the reverse, especially with the more subtle way in which women tend to engage in such abuse, a lot of the times including involving the law or other authority figures in “defending them” from their “aggressive” spouse.
Female victims develop fears of an opposing gender, while male victims will develop fears of society writ large.
To that end though, there are resources available to men, just not as many gender segregated resources for them.
Hmmm interesting perspective. I’ll think on my stance for a while
This place definitely isn’t reddit and this comment proves it lol
Domestic violence, by count of occurrences, has been shown to be around 50/50, with a slight lean towards women instigating slightly more often.
This is not taking into account how hard the partner hits or how much damage they cause, but women do aggress on men about the same as the other way around.
Your statementade me google the statistics and reports for my country (Germany) and i found a credible source that says that up to 40% of victims of relationship-violence are men and that the numbers might be even higher as men dont talk aboit this, its a “taboo” cause men need to be tough and all.
Just sharing my source, maybe you have one too? Would be interested to read more into this.
https://www.aerzteblatt.de/archiv/186686/Haeusliche-Gewalt-gegen-Maenner-Unbeachtet-und-tabuisiert
Yep, like the suicide gap that will often come up, MRAs will talk up how men commit suicide at 5 times the rate of women, but quietly not mention the part where it’s not for lack of trying, women will more often choose less violent means that are easier to be saved from, meaning that despite actually attempting far more than men, they are rescued or are able to back out of it much more often.
On that point, women and men engage in abuse patterns differently, which is why society has had trouble recognizing women abusers and their victims. Instead of battering them or choking them, they’ll call the cops on them or pursue them with a knife or threaten their loved ones or treasured possessions or even pets.
Victims of male abusers come out often fearing for their physical safety and mistrusting other men, victims of female abusers will come out fearing for their safety but mistrusting society at large because abusive women will often make the levers of society their weapon instead of the more blunt instruments abusive men tend to use.
Sorry but this is exactly what really rubs my gears about this topic. Whenever there’s something like this or a man trying to post about his abuse there’s always someone, mostly women, who try to shut them up & argue about domestic abuse towards women. It’s as if that somehow excuses it, or makes it not as important when it it is being done to men.
I also want to remind you that men are much less likely to actually report, or let alone even talk about domestic abuse done to them. A lot of domestic abuse done by women, such as slapping or various verbal abuse (insults, yelling, manipulation, gaslighting etc), are also often not even seen as abusive, but rather as the norm within our society. This causes statistics to be inherently flawed.
Either way though… “Who does it the most” is not actually any sort of valid argument AGAINST proper & equal help line texts in a search engine, or equal laws, or equal societal norms & standards. You generally shouldn’t demand to be treated equal but then punch in the other direction whenever it suits you. That’s now how that works and just makes you look like a hypocrite.
The worst part is that feminists keep saying that we don’t need MRAs because feminism will make everything right. Except you know, when men has an issue, like this thread shows.
MRA groups are inherently incel infested cesspools.
Are you reading this very thread?
Yeah and?
Feminists all over this thread are saying we cant focus on a problem men have
That hasn’t happened at all.
You’ve just proven my point.
Please don’t turn this community into garbage by going out of your way to be mildly infuriated. I don’t know if you took this screenshot yourself or stole it from reddit but I really doubt you came across this naturally
This is not a double standard (I’m a guy by the way, who was affected by domestic violence as a child, so keep that in mind). The statistics don’t lie. Most domestic violence is perpetrated by men. This is not a double standard.
And there you are dismissing the problem because it isn’t as prevalent for one group.
Do better for your fellow abuse survivors.
I’m not dismissing the problem. The statistics show very clearly most domestic violence is perpetrated by men. Nowhere in my statement did I say women can’t also perpetrate domestic violence. The science is the science tho, and it makes sense to build things into your system for things that are most common.
The statistics also show that the vast plurality of it is committed by cops, does that mean we should automatically redirect any spouse of a cop to the DV hotline if they call 911?
Nae, you do.
Men are less likely to say they are the victim, specially if the aggressor is the wife. Men are supposed to “man up” if they have problems. Statistics show that women can and are agressors.
And, most important, just because there might be less men who are victims doesnt mean they should not get the very same help if they need it. Coming around with a shitty “oh, its science!” argument is lame and perpetuates the stupid role model where men are not and cannot be the victim and if that it is not bad because its only a few.
Any victim, no matter the gender, deserves help, no matter how many there are, period.
I didn’t ever say men cannot be victims. You’re being intentionally obtuse, , and putting words in my mouth bcz this is an emotionally charged topic for people.
I‘m in Germany and when I search for it, “wife is yelling”, the first result is the official help line. The first result for “husband is yelling” is kind of what the pic showed for “wife is yelling”. Weird …
In Australia it shows the help is available for everyone but useing a VPN that’s in America it only triggers if a man is beating a woman
To me the both is from the same website as you got for “why is my husband yelling at me” (wellbeingscounselling.ca). woah, does this mean that my country is truly gender equal?
Google != Canada
The second result I. The USA is the hotline too.
Is there even a hotline for male victims? Is the National hotline for men too? If it is, then the problem is probably with Google.
The true mildly infuriating is the comments. Whether this is rage bait or not, we should all be about to agree on some basic things:
-
Domestic violence sucks regardless of who the victim is and who the perpetrator is.
-
Helping one group of victims, like males, does not have to and should not take away from helping another group.
-
The number of victims should not be the deciding factor on whether victims deserve empathy and support.
People in here are going out of their way to defend what is clearly a biased oversight, treating women like an automatic victim and treating men like an automatic perpetrator. Why? Just acknowledge that it’s dumb, shows bias, and move on.
This isn’t rage bait. There are a lot of tech workers on Lemmy and it’s likely that someone that works at Google could see this and fix the issue.
Agree with everything you said btw
Lol
What’s funny?
>not rage bait
>likely that someone that works at Google could see this
> and fix the issue.
Your statements are
Aren’t they likely to see brand mentions?
Same principle:
Would be irresponsible not to be tracking keywords ‘round the web… imagine if this discussion were “new Google Search CSAM exploit”! But I do expect some level of engagement really helps the odds of discussions being raised to a company’s attention, so you’re right it’s not a guarantee.
Can you please point me to where I should cross post it then?
“you have to have a better idea then mine in order to show that me saying something is not ragebait and is LIKELY is wrong”
No
That a random worker at Google would not only see this, but also make changes based on it. That kind of stuff only happens with indie devs and open source projects. Plenty of companies take things like this into consideration but workers aren’t going solo.
Google used to give their devs incredible leeway. https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/the-wadsworth-constant
I’m all ears if you have a better idea
Find the nearest organization or shelter offering support for male abuse victims and help out.
Also, you know, get as much of you own shit in order so that a man needs help, you have capacity to help him.
Also join a men’s group so you can practice being supportive of other men.
Use a different search engine?
Try the feedback buttons under the hotline & the snippet, respectively.
The big adtech company is very active and sometimes quite responsive on the egotistical billionaire’s dying communications platform.
BTW, complaints on the same site helped trigger a response RE: their language model yesterday.
Nah, it’s shown up on reddit for years on many reposts. Google just doesn’t care.
All I’ve got to say is that I might begin to take female domestic abuse victims with a grain of salt if I’ve any suspicion they would treat male victims similarly. Because to many victims, it is obvious that it can happen to anyone and be perpetrated by anyone, regardless of gender of either. But if they say men can’t be abused, that just tells me that they have never experienced abuse and removes any credibility from anything they could possibly say about the subject.
There’s a difference between thinking that male victims of domestic abuse don’t deserve sympathy or support, and thinking that it’s okay for “useful search results” to vary according to gender.
The results are biased because the danger is biased.
It’s an unfortunate reality that information about domestic violence is more likely to be useful to a woman concerned about an angry male partner than the opposite.That doesn’t minimize the suffering of men who do need support, it’s just putting information more likely to be useful first.
The domestic abuse hotline is the second result, and the first one also affirms that everyone deserves to feel safe in their relationships, and to calm the hotline if you don’t.“My wife/husband hit me” both yield the same results, which makes sense.
It’s also more likely that you’ll get to the store and back without an automobile accident, but you still wear the seatbelt for that 1/10,000 chance. Because the one time out of 10,000 that you get in an accident, you need the seatbelt no matter how rare a situation it is.
So, do you think we should put that information at the top of every search result?
Putting it on every search result is obviously extreme. There has to be a cutoff where you think that it’s probably not helpful to show someone the information so you don’t.
As long as there’s a difference in rate of different genders being the perpetrator of domestic violence, then you’re going to have a difference in when you hit that threshold for it becoming helpful, and you’ll get things like this where “man yelling” vs “woman yelling” land on different sides of that cutoff.
We can lower the threshold, and then you’ll get it for “man seems upset” vs “woman seems upset”.
Also, the connotation of “yelling” can differ by gender. I had male classmates in high school talk about parents “yelling” at them when there was no raised voice, just a discussion of how the child had failed to meet expectations. When men say a female partner is “yelling” they often mean “nagging” or “bothering.” Conversely, when women say a male partner is “yelling” they typically mean “using a raised voice in anger.”
When men say a female partner is “yelling” they often mean “nagging” or “bothering.”
I have a 60 minute recording of my ex-partner yelling at me. The yelling session didn’t last for only 60 minutes though. It was just 60 minutes after the point I realized I should be recording it.
And yes, I know how to accurately use the word “yell”. I know what yelling is. It’s what drill sargeants do when they’re an inch from a recruit’s face in the movies. That’s what I mean when I say “yelling”.
I’m not sure what you’re talking about. One result affirms that you should feel safe and provides a hotline, the other starts with outright victim-blaming. The second result under “Maybe it’s your fault for not listening?” is not a hotline, at least for me.
My point is that if they just made the result the same then it would not detract from women, nor would it hurt the men who don’t need the advice. You’re going out of your way to defend an unnecessary bias by claiming it’s more relevant, but that’s not the point. They could choose to just not have the bias, and it would be a win while hurting no one.
My point is that it’s not an unnecessary bias, it’s different results for different queries.
Yes, I am going out of my way to say that treating an issue with a 1 in 3 incidence rate the same as one with a 1 in 10 incidence rate isn’t a necessary outcome to ensure an automated system has.
Providing relevant information is literally their reason for existence, so I’m not sure that I agree that it’s not the point. There isn’t some person auditing the results; the system sees the query and then sees what content people who make the query engage with.
I don’t see the system recognizing that a threshold of people with queries similar to one engage with domestic abuse resources and tripping a condition that gives them special highlighting, and a people with queries similar to another engaging with dysfunctional relationship resources more often is a difference that needs correction.I’m not sure what to tell you about different results. I searched logged out, incognito, and in Firefox.
There isn’t some person auditing the results
Those top bar things… are literally audited answers from Google. They’re outside the normal search results and moves the actual result completely in the UI. Someone at google literally hard coded that anything returning results relating to womens domestic violence should present that banner.
That’s not how it works. They code a confidence threshold that the relevant result will have to do with domestic violence in general. That’s why it provides the same banner when the result is more unambiguously relevant to domestic violence.
None of this is the same as a person auditing the results.
Can we just agree whatever metric they choosed is biased?
So you’re saying it’s the google algorithm trying to put stuff up that’s most often the final destination for those search terms.
That makes sense.
That aside, do you think that, if a human were to consciously decide what goes at the top for these searches, that the man should receive a little lecture on empathy while a woman should be presented with a hotline to get help?
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Somehow I fell into an MRA meeting.
I am more concerned as to why yelling is a domestic abuse, ofc it’s not ideal but both parties are inevitably going to disagree on something and might get overly emotional about it, it’s much different than being beaten up
Right? I think it’s a bit strange that the domestic hotline shows up first (not the other issue everyone is clutching their pearls with.)
Like yelling is inappropriate in any setting, but straight to that surprises me.
People here have descended into a war zone🤷🏼♂️, I am gonna get out of here
One person constantly yelling and berating another is abuse.
Constantly fighting with your spouse on equal ground is just a broken relationship
Maybe if the question was ‘Why does my husband yell at me’ instead of ‘why is my husband yelling at me’, it maybe a bit more concerning
By the time you are googling this it probably isn’t a few seconds of occasional yelling. If you got screamed at for an hour straight each day it’s a lot more impactful.
Yes, but I just see people around looking for love that is all just cuddly with tons of hearts and compliments, and they get angry when there is some sort of disagreement, like what did you expect? Love is about finding and accepting a person who is perfect for you accepting them with both their strengths and weaknesses, not necessarily someone who is perfect in character, but everyone is just kinda ‘Oh she really respects me and trusts me with her whole heart but I wonder if she likes because I am dark skinned’
I think that what ryathal was getting at is that there’s a distinction between the kind of shouting that happens in the arguments one expects in a regular relationship, vs the kind of shouting where its one person shouting at the other for a long time. I don’t even know if I’d count that latter one as “an argument”.
The distinction can get muddy and it’s not always clear where the line is, but some people grow up without any sense of that line existing at all. Because of my childhood, for example, in my first relationship, I was terrified of any conflict, because I had internalised that “argument” meant “screaming obscenities at each other”. I had to learn how to have arguments, a key part of which was learning how to disagree on an emotionally fraught subject without having to shout, plus developing a sense of when some shouting may be justified).
I agree with your sentiment that people who think of love as being a perfect, clear sailing thing are setting unreasonable expectations, but I don’t think I’m on board with the idea of a person being “perfect for you”, or that love means accepting them as they are. I think there’s a bit of that, sure, but I also think that there’s a lot of learning to grow together, and actively putting work into the love that exists between two people.
I agree you with all you said, what I meant by saying acceptance is that when you really love someone (in particular marry), you accept a persons character and the flaws that might exist in it, maybe an emotional thing like being short-tempered, or something physical, sure you grow together, that’s what a healthy relationship is, but I don’t think you can find a person who is perfect In literally every way possible and who always agrees with you 100% it sucks but it’s the truth, this of course shouldn’t take a form of domestic violence or toxicity or constant yelling, but I don’t think you can complain if it sometimes things get overly emotional
And tbh I thinks it’s great that love is flawed, if it was perfect all the time, you might not be able to appreciate all the beautiful things and emotions that come with it, having a whole set of emotions with it kinda makes it more complete imho
OP joined an hour ago, made this post, and now everyone is upset. 🤣
He joined here to make chaos and disturb all peace lol
Trying to get someone from google to see this and fix it. I thought Lemmy was all tech workers
Lemmy is full of ex redditers that left this shit behind on reddit
Nah i think google are full of normal well-adjusted people that don’t use lemmy
I made my comment in a sarcastic way if it’s not apparent
I don’t actually agree that op made an account to cause chaos but the gif is just so great I can only leave a like and steal it for future use.
Edir : can’t steal on android (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
I scream at my pet. It can’t tell anyone because it’s not a human.
