Fox News reported on some new presidential rankings, which purportedly show Barack Obama as the #6 president in U.S. history and Donald Trump dead last, and MAGA was not happy.
Fox News on Sunday posted an article about the new rankings by the Presidential Greatness Project, which Fox describes as “a group of self-styled experts.” It states that Abraham “Lincoln topped the list of presidents in the 2024 Presidential Greatness Project expert survey for the third time, following his top spot in the rankings in the 2015 and 2018 versions of the survey.”
…
“Rounding out the top five in the rankings were Franklin Delano Roosevelt at number two, George Washington at three, Theodore Roosevelt at four, and Thomas Jefferson at five,” according to the report. “Trump was ranked in last place in the survey, being ranked worse than James Buchanan at 44, Andrew Johnson at 43, Franklin Pierce at 42, and William Henry Harrison at 41.”
The report states that Obama and Joe Biden “ranked an average of 6th and 13th, respectively, among Democrat respondents, and 15th and 30th by Republicans.”
Jackson is not in the bottom but Harrison is? People need to read some history books. Dying 35 days into your presidency is worse than a genocide?
The fact that he is still on our currency is insane enough
I’ve always thought that Harrison should be ranked much higher in these lists. If you equate his presidency with “doing absolutely nothing,” then logically he should rank above all of the presidents who actively harmed the country/world. And there are quite a few of 'em.
Let’s get tee shirts “Harrison was #1”
Confuse the shit out of people
George was pretty great.
Pete is my favorite Beatle.
Billy Preston is my favorite Beatle.
Pete was Best.
And Trump was dead last.
Biden debuted at 14th.
Honestly Andrew Jackson ought to be way down at the bottom too
Guess whose portrait they had hung in the oval when Trump took over the job?
https://time.com/4649081/andrew-jackson-donald-trump-portrait/
Jackson is pretty complicated. He did so much heinous shit, but he also did a lot to keep the south in line in the early 19th century. Middle if the pack is usually a fair place for Jackson.
I think genociding natives outweighs keeping the south in line enough to put him at the bottom
You’d think so, but here we are.
If Trump gets a second term, things like Jacksons “Indian Removal Act” and other horrible acts will be a minor issue in comparison.
And so early on a Monday morning to post this too…
why in the unholy shitting fuck is MAGA considered a person
Because they’re all just clones
The cool thing about a propagandized population is it creates something akin to a hivemind people. All you really have to do is determine whether or not X person has fallen victim to a certain flavor of propaganda, and it’s a decent indicator of whether or not that person believes several other falsehoods and behaves in accordance with actions laid out by the source of the propaganda. MAGA is a solid example of a propagandized people who behave and believe in very predictable ways: They skew alt-right, believe Trump is good for the country, range from racially apathetic to completely racist, champion capitalism and billionaires, are unable to be swayed by new information that runs counter to their established narrative, are aggressively white and Christian, and they generally align with Republican politicians across the board, as long as those politicians are in the same realm of insanity that Trump inhabits. MAGA is a philosophy born and raised by bad faith propaganda.
i would stop using the tagline they picked out and instead just fall them right wing fascists
Here’s the full combined list:
- Lincoln
- FD Roosevelt
- Washington
- T Roosevelt
- Jefferson
- Truman
- Obama
- Eisenhower
- LB Johnson
- Kennedy
- Madison
- Clinton
- J Adams
- Biden
- Wilson
- Reagan
- Grant
- Monroe
- GHW Bush
- JQ Adams
- Jackson
- Carter
- Taft
- McKinley
- Polk
- Cleveland
- Ford
- Van Buren
- Hayes
- Garfield
- Harrison
- GW Bush
- Arthur
- Coolidge
- Nixon
- Hoover
- Tyler
- Taylor
- Fillmore
- Harding
- Harrison
- Pierce
- Johnson
- Buchanan
- Trump
why did they only rank top 45? such a specific number.
Because Grover Cleveland fucked it all up by serving non-consecutive terms.
They should have ranked his 1st and 2nd terms individually smdh
Presidental history isn’t my stringest area, but I’d bump up Eisenhauer before Truman.
I feel the jump after #5 is a pretty sizeable one.
I’m trying to justify moving down GHWB and Jackson, but looking at who comes in after them, it’s hard to come up with anything to put them over either of them.
Looking at the list objectively, it’s pretty amazing the combined list of terrible things we can list off that all these people did. The tops 5 included. But I feel those are the only ones I can say what they did was so monumental that the country was better off after their terms and I wonder if we would ever get a leader like any of them again.
Still sad to see the amount of slavery and war crimes in the top 5 though.
Some of these positions are a bit… subjective? Obama over LBJ?
Obama was the first President from a minority part of a population and signed Obamacare.
Well, the first part certainly is important. But isn’t related to “greatness” in terms of accomplishments during a presidency. Obamacare definitely counts. Also the repeal of DADT.
But during LBJ, black voting rights, Medicare and Medicaid, and making discrimination illegal (especially employer discrimination).
It’s all very subjective as I said earlier. But there would be no Obama without LBJ.
This list is created by historians. So, it is history of the time and President that is considered.
What you say about LBJ is mostly true, though it was JFK that set those programs in motion in Congress. But, what LBJ also did was entrench the US in a very unpopular war. So much so, he refused to run for a final term.
Which is why I mentioned JFK.
You mean the guy who got the job cuz someone died, and then started the Vietnam War?
He’s got a lot of social reform under his belt. You could argue a lot of that is from JFK. His international politics, not so much
I mean you couldn’t argue that very well. Anyone who thinks LBJ wasn’t largely a driving force behind social reform is insane. I mean personally he pushed a lot of that through. I doubt Kennedy could have.
He pushed it through because he had the career politician connections, which was 100% invaluable to actually get it done. But the vision came from Kennedy and LBJ largely carried out as Kennedy’s legacy rather than Johnson’s own cause.
JFK definitely started the war. LBJ and Nixon just escalated it
To be fair Obama did end the war his predecessor started.
The whole thing is subjective, they were rankings done by survey. No one is trying to hide that
Wtf? Reagan should be a lot lower.
- Van Buren
That’s a lot higher than I’d put the guy who so “skillfully” handled the panic of 1837.
How the fuck is Reagan top 20
Yeah. Most of what is wrong now can be traced to Reagan.
Historians create the list, so sometimes it is about the history these Presidents lived through. Reagan is seen as an element in the fall of the Soviet Union, and thus the recreation of many countries and world order.
I’ve met many people in real life who seem to believe Reagon is great due to his “very successful” Reaganomics. I don’t know if they actually knew what Reaganomics really was or the results of it.
This should really worry Republicans. Apparently this came from surveying people. If Reagan is 16 , and Obama is 7, and Trump is absolutely last, it says a whole fucking lot about the electorate.
Edit: I’m mistaken, it’s political science folks. So probably not as worrying to them.
America is a sad place.
Puts him at about average. Reagan represents a brand of conservatism that many disagree with but that doesn’t inherently make him a bad president.
Carter #1 in our hearts
He may be the best human being in the office. He micromanaged his staff–he required personal signing off on the White House tennis court usage–and never figured out the sausage making process with Congress. His actual accomplishments were limited.
45. Trump
I’m glad to see Trump acknowledge and celebrate his place at the bottom of the list.
For me, Trump is ultimately the last president who could possibly have enacted and globally promoted actual climate science based reforms that at least might have stood a chance at preparing America and the world a way forward through what is going to be an extremely challenging next few decades.
Instead he was an incompetent idiot criminal mobster bully who crystalized nascent fascism, religious extremism and anti intellectualism into an unstoppable political force, and in the process broke basically the brains of all of America in one way or another, utterly destroyed our reputation to the rest of the world, and has left an utterly catastrophic political situation in his aftermath, that basically only FDR could possibly hope to do any better than mitigate.
Say what you will about exact placement of other Presidents but Trump very obviously deserves the bottom spot.
The fact that having this ‘opinion’ outloud in a bar in basically most of America would get me assaulted is further proof that this collosal evil doofus is essentially the best argument against American Exceptionalism I can think of, but I am again literally likely to be assaulted for having it.
Anyway, tl:dr, we’re doomed now, thanks Trump.
For me, Trump is ultimately the last president who could possibly have enacted and globally promoted actual climate science based reforms that at least might have stood a chance at preparing America and the world a way forward through what is going to be an extremely challenging next few decades.
This probably won’t make you feel any better, but with how long it takes our actions to make a significant impact on the climate, he could’ve been a climate messiah and the next few decades would probably still be the same.
I’m not sure when the tipping point was, but we’ve long since passed the point where we could avoid the whole problem by reducing emissions. We’ve been locked into a dynamic now where we not only need to reduce emissions to fix the climate, we need to take mitigative measures against the effects of climate change. These next couple decades are going to be a combination of promoting green energy and defending ourselves from climate change. We couldn’t stop the monster from being born, so now we have to fight the monster while also saving everyone from it.
I have hope we’ll manage it though. There was a report in early 2023 which said the efforts we’ve made so far on the climate have made a difference. We’re no longer on the path to an apocalyptic extinction event of +4 degC or higher. It’ll be hard work, but we can do it. My biggest regret is that I don’t think our generation will ultimately be able to fix it. We’re going to have to do what we can, but it’ll be our children who are able to finally fix it. There’s just not enough time left for us to do so in a human lifespan.
Worst is a pretty high bar to clear though. Like, Jackson literally committed the Trail of Tears, genociding all the Indians against the express orders of the SCOTUS, who he told to pound sand because he controlled the army and there wasn’t jack or shit they could do to stop him.
Like, Trump was real real bad for sure, but like, Trail of Tears, literal death marches at gunpoint bad? Idk.
I mean, trump would have loved to create his own trail of tears (not that he knows what that was, historically). I guess it’s reasonable to deny credit for what he wanted to do versus what someone actually did, though.
One of the many fucked up things Trump did–there are so many that it’s easy to forget–was meeting with Navajo tribe veterans under a Jackson portrait. He loves Jackson and would repeat all Jackson did if he could.
Wait until his second term and you will probably agree with the lowest possible rank for Trump.
Or you can make the sort of detached cynical and dehumanizing raw numbers argument that without Trump doing basically everything he could to fuck up handling covid and spread insane misinformation, he is largely the most responsible of all people in America for covid deaths beyond basically the first wave, roughly 9 times more people than were killed/displaced/genocided than Jackson’s trail of tears.
I dont even want to attempt to get into some kind of moral argument about which of those things is worse, so there ya go, numbers based.
Just to add I think you could make some of the same arguments for the degrading of healthcare/social safety nets and the EPA. If we’re purely talking numbers and not specific cruelty.
well said. i dont agree about the climate stuff, but the rest is 100% correct.
The thing is, he had so many opportunities to do a handful of good things and STILL did the other fascism stuff and he probably would have won reelection. I mean, Nixon at least gave us the EPA and cleaned up our waters.
I mean, it was a freebie. Covid? If he went all in on saving lives we could be living in Trumpland right now. Instead he might have killed hundreds of thousands of people with his dumb mouth.
Trump is really testing our democracy right now.
He has already broken it.
As bad as Trump is, Democrats are pretty much equally inept when it comes to dealing with climate change. All but the most progressive Dems are just as beholden to fossil fuels interests. We needed Gore to win back in 2000 for any real difference to be made. Now we’re doomed regardless.
The Inflation Reduction Act was the most powerful climate law ever passed in the US, and it was significant enough that it forced European countries to pass similar legislation.
It certainly doesn’t fix climate change suddenly, but it’s incorrect to say Democrats are as bad. They’re at least meaningfully trying. Trump and Republicans are actively wanting to make things worse.
Are Democrats just as bad? No. But they are equally inept. They align themselves with business interests and favor preserving the status-quo over the dramatic systemic change that is required to address climate change. Anything they allow to pass is like putting a band-aid on a gunshot wound. Far too little, far too late. Neo-Liberal incrementalism is what doomed the world, reactionary conservatism is mearly a by-product.
The law isn’t about preserving the status quo though. It has massive subsidies and provisions to create a brand new status quo. The idea of the law is to build up American green energy companies so that they’ll be global leaders in the space.
I agree it isn’t the full solution, but it is still significant, and it’s trying to make some systemic changes.
>The Inflation Reduction Act was the most powerful climate law ever passed in the US
by what metric
Most spending towards climate change, at $369 billion.
And, from a political perspective, it forced other countries to make similar legislation.
the Organic Act preserved vast swathes of the united states against development. the bureau of land management established under truman has done the same with other federal lands (with varying degrees of success).
how can you quantify the relative value of these against the IRA? i don’t think the simple summing of budgetary allowances is a good metric to decide whether it’s teh most powerful climate law ever passed.
Let me rephrase – most powerful climate change law ever passed. Not overall climate and environment. The establishment of the EPA would be a strong contender for the most powerful environmental law ever passed, that’s for sure.
if the money is spent correctly, maybe. i haven’t read it, but I’m wary it may spend 200billion on clean coal and the rest on hydrogen fuel cells (as examples)
I agree, but then you have to have a discussion about what actual voting fraud looks like, and also involve climate change.
I have attempted to do this with a few Republicans these days.
It generally ends with them become irate, loud, angry and throwing out insane nonsense.
I think you’re too optimistic unfortunately.
Well that would make you the actual only person I have ever met that has said any opinion I have about politics is too /optimistic/.
I have spent my entire life being called overly pessimistic about the political nature of America, and while I have been wrong about some things and learned /why/ and then learned more, you are again the only person who has ever said I am too optimistic and this is both baffling and in a weird way sort of validating.
For my full actual outlook for the future, I am basically educated guessing that while the financial elites of America have been so far successful in convincing a good number of non poor people that the economy is in a sort of low growth holding pattern, this will fall apart due to the now for several months ongoing military/piracy fun going on near Yemen.
No amount of financial fuckery and op eds will be able to mask the downturn which I estimated several months ago now would cause such significant logistical strain on basically the global capitalist machine in general that it would result in an actual negative GDP print for the US economy in either Q1 2 or 3 of this year. The UK has apparently already had that happen.
What this means is the economy will officially shit itself and basically barring Trump literally being incarcerated, he will win over Biden.
If Trump /is/ literally incarcerated, enough Republicans will lose their minds that they will basically attempt to secceed even harder and basically do something like another insurrection and/or mass wave of basically domestic terrorism to the point that it will be obvious that the US is balkanizing.
While I consider this Trump being incarcerated scenario overall less likely, if Trump wins he will basically end American democracy and his total inability to have any kind of policy that makes any kind of sense will basically lead to horror misery and further impovershment of the masses, while he basically just orders his goons to order their goons to direct the idiot violent followers of his to be brownshirts.
Either way, the climate has now basically indisputably passed the 1.5C threshold, is actually basically trending closer to the worst case scenario envisioned by the last IPCC that actually bothered to model such things, possibly even worse, which means we are guaranteed basically everything most people need to routinely purchase becoming more expensive, more failing infrastructure, more unchecked corporate greed, hundreds of millions of climate refugees in this decade alone, and we in America will basically either be having a civil war or being crushed under an authoritarian boot while this happens.
There.
Am I still too optimistic?
Yeah, no on this sorry this article is bullshit… Trump is a bad guy and was a bad president but Andrew Jackson ordered the Trail of Tears and forced over a hundred thousand people to walk into desert concentration camps.
forced over a hundred thousand people to walk
I’m told that a hundred thousand people is [checks notes] less than hundreds of thousands. It’s a shock to me too, but the math does check out.
Not suer what you point is, at the time this was literally all of them. The trail of tears totally erased many cultures to where they never recovered and was a total and complete genocide.
Pandemic
COVID-19 nowhere comes close to the level of atrocity of the Indian Removal act and the US south and its policies under Jackson. The trail of tears genocide was just one event from the Indian Removal act that he passed where hundreds of cultures were erased from all time, where hundreds thousands died and were gunned down by the US army. Before he was president he personally murdered people he believed less than human, by a person who was trying to build a slave owning white supremacist feudalism.
This makes you a worse person than someone who mishandled a pandemic that was mishandled worldwide.
Drop the [check notes] cliche. It’s so overused. The rest of your comment is on point.
Who didn’t see that coming-Trump is the worst president.
Remember when Trump asked Russia to help him win the election. Or when Trump thought light brought into the body would cure covid. Or when Trump believed the murderer Putin over our own government. Or…well I could go on, but Trump worked for that last spot on the list. He deserves it.
Remember Hurricane Sharpie‽ That alone should be a good indicator that he’s nothing but trash on his best day.
Well uh definitely no likely Trump voters and likely about half of ‘independents’, so something like 60 ish percent of American voters?
You must either be European or otherwise blissfully ignorant of American society.
Based on the below chart from the people who did the survey even self identified conservatives and Republicans put him in the 40’s. He seemed doomed to bottom tier even if they just used the people who should love him most to do the ranking.
Welp, I was wrong!
I’d hazard a guess that it’s less to do with his conduct as president, rather more of what he actually did in office. I honestly can’t think of anything his administration “achieved” aside from massive tax cuts for the rich. Obama had the ACA, Biden has his massive economic recovery and job creation, Trump has nothing of value.
Usually when I try to think of it all I can remember is space force. Still a stupid name, and I can’t believe they couldn’t come up with something better.
Not sure if that’s achieved though, but was prolly a good thing to have a dedicated group to it then funneling through the Air Force
The Space Force was a long time coming. Trump didn’t come up with the idea for an entire new branch of the armed forces and have it created while he was in office.
The first discussion of a U.S. Space Force occurred under President Dwight Eisenhower’s administration in 1958 and it was nearly established in 1982 by President Ronald Reagan as part of the Strategic Defense Initiative. The 2001 Space Commission argued for the creation of a Space Corps around 2007–2011, but due to the September 11 attacks and war on terror any plans were put on hold. In 2017, Representatives Jim Cooper and Mike Rogers’ proposal for a Space Corps passed the House but failed in the Senate. In 2019, the House and Senate resolved their differences to pass the United States Space Force Act. It was signed into law by President Donald Trump, establishing the U.S. Space Force as the first new independent military service since the Army Air Forces were reorganized as the U.S. Air Force in 1947.[9]
If you want to credit it to Eisenhower sure, but still technically it was established under trump so that’s the best I have for remembering what he did in office.
I still have a hard time taking them seriously, with the way it was rolled out. I know it’s probably a good idea, given how critical space technology is, and that it will just keep getting more and more critical, but wow did they make it sound ridiculous at first. It’s hard to get past that first inpression
Agreed. Add to it Steve Carell’s show (although wasn’t great) after definitely didn’t help its credibility.
. I honestly can’t think of anything his administration “achieved” aside from massive tax cuts for the rich.
Does fucking up the covid response and breaking the brains of all Americans count as achievements?
I wouldn’t say Obama is a top 10 president but he was a good president.
Meanwhile Trump was objectively a terrible president - a venal, mercurial, criminal narcissist who sold out his allies and whose incompetence managed to kill hundreds of thousands of people during a pandemic and capped off his term with an insurrection. Not enough history has passed to judge exactly where he is in relation to some other terrible presidents but I reckon he’ll be in the bottom 3 for sure.
What are 10 presidents that are better than Obama, according to you?
Not the other guy but ill throw out a list of mine.
- Theodore Roosevel
- Franklin D. Roosevelt
- Harry Truman
- JFK
- LBJ
- Abraham Lincoln
- Thomas Jefferson
- Martin Van Buren
- Jimmy Carter
- George Washington
- Dwight D. Eisenhower
This aint an organized list, just those I considerr better than Obama. Also using Washington is a bit of an asspull on my part but I dont care.
I’d be hard pressed to name 9 presidents that were better…
I bet you would be.
You might not but there are plenty of lists that do and give their reasons. The likes of Lincoln, Jefferson, Theodore Roosevelt, Franklin Roosevelt, Eisenhower, Washington, Wilson, Kennedy, Reagan, Lyndon Johnson are frequently listed ahead of him and for some obvious reasons. Obama might squeak into the top 10 of some compilation lists, maybe higher if people only consider modern presidents.
Lol Wilson? Ummm…
Also, no way Reagan deserves to be ever close.
Argue with the scholars who made the lists, not me
I think it is less a judgment of how good Obama was buy rather an indictment of how bad (or inconsequential) most presidents have been.
That being said, the executive branch was really only as powerful was it is today rather recently. For the majority of the US existence it was just another bureaucratic office of government.
If it makes them feel better… Trump makes the top 10 in my lifetime…
- Obama
- Clinton
- Carter
- Reagan
- Biden
- H.W. Bush
- Ford
- W. Bush
- Nixon
- Trump
Sort of amazed you have Reagan so high
Reagan gets a pass for not fucking up Glasnost.
Surely his denial and bungling of AIDS, the abject hypocrisy of his drug policy while profiting from the sale of drugs during Iran-Contra knock him right back down that list?
This B movie actor had no business running any country, never mind a murderously hegemonic one. They badly need someone with good values and personal integrity.
They badly need someone with good values and personal integrity.
Which is why they kicked him out in favor of Jimmy Carter… Er wait…
Also, why is Ford so far below Reagan? Other than pardoning Nixon, which was admittedly awful, he didn’t do shit as president. Why is Clinton above Carter? The list is certainly not one I would agree with. In fact, I would put Reagan below Trump. We wouldn’t have Trump if it wasn’t for Reagan.
Clinton is a villain, a well known sexual predator. He was sustained by a psychopathic charisma but his record in office is appalling. Hitchens made a tidy hatchet job in his book, No One Left to Lie To. Give me Carter any day of the week, people still respect that guy. The mendacious Clinton’s are money grubbing megalomaniacs and should never be anywhere near the levers of power.
His campaign conspired to prevent the release of American hostages so he could get some political gain. Using American citizens as political pawns is unimaginable to me.
Uh, um… you must feel quite overwhelmed since 2016, then.
Rupert obviously enjoys trolling the rubes from time to time.
Everyone debating the outcomes but no one’s talking about the criteria the list is based on. What criteria they used has to be discussed before we can debate why we think it’s wrong or if a particular president should actually be here or there.
Just assume the criteria is not being a corrupt, lying, incompetent, democracy-hating puppet of belligerent foreign enemies.
I mean by what positive metric would how dumb ass even rank highly in?
Inherited wealth.
Don’t tell me that isn’t a positive in life.
According to the Fox article it’s based on survey. I was hoping there was a more objective set of criteria based on policy, action, corruption. In which I still think trump would mark last but it just hits different having scholars asking people their opinions vs scholars sharing their own opinions and why.
The respondents were asked to rank presidents on a scale of 0-100, with 0 being a failure, 50 being average and 100 being great. Rounding out the top five in the rankings were Franklin Delano Roosevelt at number two, George Washington at three, Theodore Roosevelt at four, and Thomas Jefferson at five.
Respondents were also tracked by their political affiliation and ideology, which the release argues did not “tend to make a major difference overall” in the rankings, though there were some outliers, mainly with recent presidents.
Two things that make Trump the worst and arguably traitor to the US. Just so you know where I stand.
-
He literally try to overturn an election and remain king.
-
He piled on $8,400,000,000,000 to national debt. $2.5T came from his stupid tax cut law, which were only off set in the billions of increased tariffs, and about $2.3 from discretionary spending increase, plain old Republicans in charge and spending out the wazzu. Saving the last one $3.6T for COVID relief and laws, which everyone and their grandma pointed out the potential for fraud and abuse, but no guard rails were put in place and DOJ is merely chasing back millions in peanuts only because some fraudster was too stupid to keep their mouths shut.
Circumventing the Constitution and exacerbating the wealth inequality, were real acts of degrading the US, and at best just not giving a damn about the American people. Compared to all the other crap he did that were more performative, while below the office if the President, these two things have long term effect of weakening the county that I love. He’s the worst President and the modern Republicans are only in for themselves.
I think you should add in the incompetence in handling the whole covid fiasco.
You guys seem to forget that everyone was in panic mode when COVID started shutting everything down. Remember people actually dying over toilet paper? Remember 2020 George Floyd Riots and CHAZ taking over an entire city? Saying it’s due to incompetence is grossly disregarding the events that took place. It was a complete shit show all around and NOBODY wanted to take accountability.
Can you link to anyone actually dying over toilet paper? Searched repeatedly and found nothing. Same with CHAZ taking over a city.
The riot I remember was when a neo-Nazi ran over an innocent woman in Charleston.
NOBODY else was President, and taking responsibility is in the job description
Finally, people died as the direct result of Trump tellign them to use unsafe treatments.
CHAZ did not take over Seattle…. Come on.
If only…
I think calling it incompetence is being too nice.
Sigh. I mean, we could go deep into the rabbit hole and talk about how he thought that he could kill off Blue State voters, but let’s be charitable and just call him a nitwit and not a genocidal lunatic.
Sometimes, I’m just too nice.
https://www.businessinsider.com/kushner-covid-19-plan-maybe-axed-for-political-reasons-report-2020-7
Even without any of that, his public actions alone are enough.
The full story is just worse. :/
Its funny because blue states actually got the vaccine by choice.
Always relaxing watching your opponents eliminate their own ability to vote.
I was in NYC and the whole town closed up pretty fast. I’d be seeing news reports of people in the Red States partying like it was 1999 and knew they’d end up paying the price. I’m not happy people died, but I am mad at the fools who let it happen.
Im in NZ - we went into lockdown at 3 cases.
The unfortunate result of free will- the fools let it happen but each person out there had a choice as well. We chose to follow our lockdowns and eliminated it (the first time around) and got to get out again, total of something like 28 deaths before the vax came out.
And there are people in America today who will tell you that the lockdown didn’t work. Thanks for your comment
For sure-- the cities got hit hardest early on, so what he saw initially was blue votes dying and just let it happen.
I would argue the damage from stacking the Supreme Court with corrupt nut jobs may have the worst fall out in the end.
I think you should add in promoting the imperial interests of a very hostile power, Russia, to your list.
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I wonder what Trump plans to do about it, other than whinge. Get reelected by abandoning Fox News and using tRuTh sOcIaL instead?
