A visitor from the U.S. got more than they asked for at a Toronto hotel restaurant when they ordered a cheeseburger on Monday night that was served with a waiver on the side.
After reading the article, I’m on the hotel’s side.
If someone asks for meat to be prepared in a way that Health Canada says is below the optimal temperature to kill pathogens, then the customer is putting themselves at risk and should bare any liability.
If someone asked for unpasteurized milk, raw eggs, or live seafood, I’d expect them to get the same waiver.
Seems quite sensible.
I would be as well were it not for one small detail, and it’s that the waiver was presented after they started eating.
That was a mistake, I’m sure. Puts the hotel at a greater liability (i.e. the customer refuses to sign), but someone eating undercooked meat would already know the risks, so this wouldn’t stop them from eating it.
No, still on the restaurants side. Like yes, it was a mistake and they should have presented it earlier, but asking for a burger to be done medium isn’t a common thing here in Canada. They might not have thought about the waiver until then.
Edit: my point here is that this article is presenting the waiver itself as some kind of wrongdoing or indictment about the restaurant’s quality/safety. To me, this seems wrongheaded and the timing of the waiver being brought out seems more like “whoops we forgor” thing than a “desperately covering our ass” thing – since again, medium burgers aren’t really a thing here.
I’m not going to fault the hotel for trying their best to please customer requests and the customer being Pikachu shock faced when he’s asked to not sue the restaurant for accommodating his McDeath Burger extra value meal.
There’s a literal west coast burger chain that serves medium as standard. Just cause you don’t ask for something doesn’t make it uncommon.
Don’t care it’s still very uncommon here. Order a burger at a restaurant in the states they ask you how you want it like ordering a steak. Order a burger in Canada they do not.
You don’t know shit about Canada.
He ordered the burger MEDIUM. In no world should that require a waiver.
Not all ground beef is freshly ground by the restaurant.
Now I’m confused.
Rare has pink in the middle, and so at risk.
Medium is cooked through, no pink, and safe.
Well is just a hockey puck.
Where in the world is “medium” undercooked?
I feel bad for y’all food standards
Why has this been making some of the “news” recently?
Some corporation wanted to cover it’s ass in the same my my work cafeteria warns about raw eggs when they serve Tiramisu.
I had to sign a waiver to try some hot sauce that was 2.5M+ on the Scoville scale.
None of these waivers hold up in court here in Canada, like, at all.
The hot sauce ones are generally just trying to make things feel “more extreme”, trying to add theatrics to the experience.
It probably does make some people restrain themselves from hurting themselves. It has a use.
It wouldn’t even hold up in this case: the waiver holds Hilton not liable when the guest eats food not prepared by the restaurant, when the guest is clearly eating food prepared by the restaurant.
I was wondering about that! I thought I didn’t understand legalese.
As a consumer, I would see the presence of such a waiver as a prompt to think about what necessitated this in the first place. Perhaps this kitchen isn’t as clean as it could be, and something happened to prompt this level of (legal) caution. Yeah, it could have been an overzealous patron looking for a payday, but maybe someone had a legit case?
Nah it’s a cultural thing. Burgers done to not well done is common in the US. It definitely isn’t in Canada. They’re almost always well done.
First time in the U.S. being asked how I like my burger was actually confusing to me.
look up a Pittsburgh style burger fuckin nasty
Title feels a bit click-baity, but truly I think the waiver is reasonable. If you want food prepared outside our food safety standards and laws, you should have to waive the right to sue if you get yourself sick and die. Whether it will actually hold in court is contestable.
I’m an American living in Canada and I think the law and mentality around it are silly.
That said, you’re right. Those are the codified rules, and because they are codified, the hotel has taken the necessary steps to protect themselves, while going out of their way to provide this to their customer. They could have just told them no, just like every other establishment does.
Yeah so we’ve got this thing in Canada called public healthcare and we ended up paying for people getting e.coli and mad cow disease because they decided they knew better, so no these regulations aren’t silly.
This attitude is a very slippery slope, unfortunately.
Well you can move across the border if you want to live in a country where governments don’t care about their citizens and where you can just sue the restaurant for not letting you eat the way you want and then sue them for feeding you unsafe for that brought you to the hospital.
Telling everyone you’re a fascist in a burger cooking thread is extra special.
He’s full of shit too, as the person who gets sick also pays his share for the insurance.
In Germany they sell ground beef that is save to eat raw. So either get save meat or, if your ground beef is not safe, bring this up directly when someone orders a medium or rare burger and not after the person already started eating.
Right. If my only choice is well done, I’m getting something else. Don’t bring me a waiver after I’ve started eating it.
Eww, we eat raw pork, not beef.
Here in BC, anything but well done burgers are illegal in restaurants. We have steak tartar, but you need to cut the exterior layer of meat away and grind it right before serving. You might get away with doing the same for burgers, but no one does it that I know of.
I’ve heard of a restaurant in North van that does it, I can’t recall its name though.
you want people to be able to sue over everything, this is the result.
id have signed, cuz i both enjoy meat and not suin’ people for nonsense i caused.
RTFA
they had already started eating when the server handed them a waiver.
Not to mention, the eater is dumb if they get a hamburger that’s less than well done. Ground beef has much more surface area for pathogens to creep into. So unless you watched them cut up and grind the meat, after watching them properly sterilize their equipment, order that burger well done.
i absolutely read the article.
i read an article about a crybaby who ordered a burger rare, which everyone knows is outside the scope of safety fucking everywhere, and then whined when presented with having to take responsibility for the choice he was already eating.
or are we to believe this is his first experience ordering rare??
And you ignored everything.
Unless proven otherwise, we should believe that this is the first time they received a waiver
and you ignored everything
the waiver is irrelevant here
Irrelevant to whom?
it should be irrelevant to any moron who orders a rare burger, like me.
good for you. your input here is totally irrelevant though, as usual for you.
not that you read it before commenting, but the article specifies that the burger was ordered ‘medium.’
I worked at Outback Steakhouse (outside the US) and we were never allowed to serve burgers that weren’t well done. I’ve had to explain many times that it is due to the risk of illness from uncooked/processed meat and people still choose to be upset.
I thought the science says a steak can safely be rare, but not hamburger? Still a weird thing to get upset about. Although I’ve been to dinner with people I thought were reasonable only for them to turn into fuckheads with waiters. I think some people just get really dickish when they are customers. Fuck em.
Its any ground meat. Bacteria cant penetrate a steak to contaminate it, so as long as the outside is cooked enough its safe. When you grind up meat to expose all of the meat to outside conditions, plus any bacteria left on the grinders themselves, so it has to be fully cooked.
Except there are raw ground meat dishes. Beef tartare is raw ground beef and the Mettbrötchen is raw ground pork. So it certainly can be consumed safely.
The USDA guidelines for food safety are extremely conservative when it comes to spoiling. On one hand it makes sense because we don’t want businesses to gamble with their customers health for higher profits. But it also means people are quick to dismiss them because so many of the guidelines are broken daily without incident.
What a bad argument. “Some people prepare food unsafely, so it can be consumed safely”…??
No one I know has been hit by a car, that means they are all safe too, right!?
True, except that in Canada we don’t follow the USDA. Canada has very strict safety regulations, food service and production is no exception. There are ways to serve raw food dishes like this,but you have to follow certain procedures to do it, such as grinding your own meats and having separate work areas for everything, warning customers of the dangersm, and I would imagine you have even more frequent food inspections then usual. In Ontario we have a card system on any place that serves or prepares food that has to be displayed on the door or customer counter. Green, yellow, or red. Getting a yellow card is damn near a death sentence for alot of places since restaurants are so competitive.
That doesn’t mean that regulations aren’t broken, its just that its a risk. After 15 years of being a chef, I have always refused to undercook food even if I know it would be fine. I was not willing to take the risk.
Except there are raw ground meat dishes. Beef tartare is raw ground beef and the Mettbrötchen is raw ground pork. So it certainly can be consumed safely.
Mett, along with other raw meat products, have been found to cause quite a few food born illnesses in Germany, so it’s really not that safe.
Same goes for eating unpasteurized dairy, handling raw chicken,
I mean, would you really want to consume some raw that causes butchers to develop HPV warts?
Dumb American disgusted by his own stupidity
What makes him stupid? Cooking a burger to medium is extremely common.
Reit007 said the server explained that because the kitchen at the Hilton Toronto Airport Hotel & Suites always cooks their burgers well-done, they should sign the waiver first.
The disgusting part of this story is a corporate mandate on well-done burgers.
You can have ground beef below well done, but it has to be fresh ground in clean equipment. Most restaurants that don’t specialize in burgers/beef aren’t fresh grinding mean on order. If you eat medium at a place that doesn’t offer it you’re responsible for your own decisions.
I think cleanliness standards for kitchens should be governement ordained to be clean enough but to have to serve a waiver.
If you’re running a kitchen and are to dense to follow health and safety laws you shouldn’t be able to operate.
In his circumstance should the onus be placed on the customer.
The only person that’s too dense here is you buddy.
You’re thick as pudding.
A clean kitchen isn’t enough. If your burger was made of preground beef you can’t eat it medium. If ONE of the pieces of meat that was processed that day in the factory was contaminated all the resulting ground meat is also contaminated. That’s why you cook ground meat to well done.
If a restaurant wants to offer medium burgers, or steak tartare or some other form of undercooked ground beef, they have to grind it themselves, in small batches, and use practices that reduce contamination. They’ll usually still warn you on the menu because there is still a risk. There are restaurants in Japan that serve raw chicken sushi, same concept. If you ask for undercooked chicken at a restaurant, you’re an idiot, unless you’ve gone somewhere that can do it right, which usually starts from raising their own specially vaccinated chickens.
Restaurants that don’t offer undercooked ground beef are just trying to warn you that you’re being an idiot ordering undercooked ground beef. If you make burgers at home from store bought ground beef and cook them to medium, same thing.
Or don’t allow beef with contamination risks at all … Industry standards can be enforced.
He’s stupid because he ordered a burger how he likes it (and probably normally orders it), starts eating it, then they ask him to sign a waiver after he’s taken a few bites?
Sorry friend, I’m not sure he’s the stupid one here. If the waiter had told him that he needs to sign a waiver before they put the order in, that’s one thing. Doing it after they cooked it to order and he started eating is where the real stupidity occurs.
They just want an excuse to spread hate.
Dude is incredibly stupid, because he’s been ordering under-cooked burgers without any conception of what he’s requesting for “Bob”-know-how-long.
He might like medium-cooked burgers, but he has no idea what that even means. The food at the hotel isn’t less-safe than other places. They just didn’t assume he read the fine-print at the bottom of the menu and were the first to inform him that it’s not safe.
Yeah, they delivered the waiver at the wrong time, but dude should’ve already known what he was ordering wasn’t safe. I order over-easy, soft-boiled, and sometimes sunny-side-up eggs. I know the risks, and I accept them.
Unless you put an a ton of effort into it, ground beef is only safe well-done. To get safe under-cooked ground beef, you need to discuss your intentions with your butcher and grind the beef yourself. Even with grinding a single, quality cut of beef, you’re still gambling.
Also, fuck you, I’m not your friend guy, here’s a rocket ship ().():::::::::::::::::D~~~~~~~
I’ve been eating burgers cooked medium (145 degrees F) for 30 years, and never get sick. Is it a Canadian beef problem? If the hotel is that worried, just refuse to cook it less than 160 and let them order something else. But no, capitalism says that Hilton must take their money and make them sign a waiver that probably has zero chance of holding up in court.
You actually just need to get your ground beef from reputable places, and well, I sincerely doubt Hilton Hotels cares enough to do that. My butcher grounds his own beef from chuck, sourced locally, and I don’t have to cook my burgers to sawdust to feel safe about eating them.
I’m not your guy, pal.
To be clear, please continue to enjoy your food the way you want it. Just know what the words that exit your mouth mean. Life shouldn’t be safe, and many of life’s greatest pleasures are not safe.
Is it a Canadian beef problem? Nah, it’s just a problem with the definition of “safe food”. If the food is not cooked to 165F, then any bacteria, fungi, and parasites that are present could still be alive. There are no guarantees that the beef didn’t have tapeworms, and since ground beef is usually from multiple cuts, there’s a larger chance that a tapeworm has been ground up and spread throughout. It’s a tiny chance, but it’s still a chance. Steaks are less of a risk, because it’s a single cut, and the chef can visually inspect it.
The waiver is stupid, but it has less to do with capitalism and more to do with the legal system. People sue for anything and everything, and I don’t blame companies for trying to defend themselves from that. They asked the dude to sign a waiver, because they’re afraid he doesn’t understand the risks and might sue if he gets sick.
Funny thing is: in this case the guy didn’t understand the risks. He thought they were saying their beef is sketchy. What they were really saying is: all ground beef not cooked to 165F could be sketchy. I think he’s dumb, because he doesn’t know that a medium cooked burger involves risk but has been requesting it everywhere he goes. If he had known what a medium burger is, he would’ve just said “yeah yeah yeah”, signed, and ate the burger like an adult.
I’m not you pal, buddy. (but we might be friends now)
Yeah, this isn’t like the hotel thinks its food is unsafe to eat, this is just acknowledging that the customer wanted their beef cooked below safe standards.
Isn’t this usually covered by a disclaimer on the menu though?
Technically you can cook a hamburger to medium and have it be safe to eat, but I really don’t see most restaurants doing sous vide for hamburgers.
Waiver should have been brought up when he requested the burger undercooked, but otherwise I see no issue.
First, the waiver should have been provided prior to serving the meal.
Second, and off topic, Toronto Pearson area seems fraught with problems. From second-hand experience of a family member, they got delayed by 11 hours after the 3 hour layover, simply because the airport apparently doesn’t know what electric surge protection is (that was their excuse, that a surge occurred in the airport grounding their plane).
Last, anyone who wants less-than-well-done meat should expect a semblance of risk and expect the restaurant will want to legally protect themselves. But it’s pretty shitty to get the waiver after being served.
So as a throwback to the AITA subreddit…ESH.
Oh fuck off, your stupid and unsafe eating habits are your own fucked up problems, the hotel has nothing to do with this. Of course it’s a Redditor too, fucking weirdos, holy hell
Would be nice if they did this for all meat purchased. Except the waiver should indicate the damage being caused to the climate
