Kind of a day late dollar short scenario
I mean I already voted for Harris because I don’t wanna die in a Trump Brand Concentration Camp, but, she really couldn’t have said this any fucking sooner?
Trump Brand Concentration Camp is very apt. It succinctly expresses that the whole thing exists only for his personal monetary gain and he’s escalating to extremes for his grift.
I don’t know. Election day is tomorrow (Technically today as I’m typing). For sure late, but maybe not too late.
Most states have early voting
Speaking directly to people with child brains
Trump said that too and it apparently won him some Muslim votes. People with child brains are a major undecided demographic.
Thank you for being one of the rare honest liberals that admits that this is purely cynical lip service and that you can’t end a genocide by voting for the nazis committing it
not that you get much credit for that from me. you are after all a nazi acting like that cynicism is a good thing
Well you’re one of the child brains in this case so good for you I guess? If your single issue is between someone who can’t suddenly fix your problem overnight while trying to stop fasism and a fascist who promised genocide in the place you care plus where he wants to run as president then you need to think about your choice.
You couldn’t be any more convincing that no one should ever listen to you. I know people like you are allergic to actually doing anything that will progress what you supposedly believe, but at least you could not insult people who are literally agreeing with you.
I’d rather be allergic to progressing towards my believes than actively support genocide. But I don’t think that’s how this works. I think the people I’m alienating myself towards are already unforgivable nazi trash who are diametrically opposed to the better world I would like to create. You on the other hand want to preserve comfort for yourself at the cost of millions of lives just because they’re brown and across the world. So this childish mean girls shit you just tried to pull isn’t the worst thing about you by a long shot.
So this childish mean girls shit you just tried to pull isn’t the worst thing about you by a long shot.
What kind hellish discrimination is this?
People can decide what ever sexual or gender orientation they want to be.
Just by looking at name one cannot genderise others. Which century are living in? Even if you are so anti against genocide against brown people, what about the black people who were used to work and tortured? Accepting that as a norm seem fine ur idealism.
Try to refrain from speaking against something which Trumpists are well know for supporting. Century old traditions of oppressing the non-whites.
“Actively.” There’s that word. What does that mean? Usually it means you’re doing something that causes another thing. Let’s go with that for a second. Let’s say I don’t vote for Harris. Does the genocide end? Almost certainly not, so my action is not perpetuating it. If Trump wins do more people die? Probably, so taking action that causes that is actively creating that situation (and doing nothing is still a choice).
Harris at least has said continuously she wants to stop it. I’ll actively be part of that instead of actively being a part of making that not happen. Fuck off you genocide enabling ignoramus. Go ahead and pretend like you’re doing something in your quite place.
Oh thank fuck
Trump would do the same thing but in his case it means letting Bibi level Gaza and then buying some land to build a tacky resort on it.
Yeah stopping the slaughter is better than completing it.
Save your hollow words. I already voted for Jill Stein.
You voted for trump without admitting to it. The terrible reality of first past the post is the enemy here:
We need a system that doesn’t convert votes for the candidate you want into a vote for who you hate the most. It’s awful being bound to crappy rules.
Bunch of 16 year olds condescending to people “Hey have you heard of the electoral college?!”
The Palestinians have taken to the streets to sing songs in your honor. You’ve saved them!
Nah, they’ve already been good and thoroughly fucked by your Lord and Savior and Daddy Biden
You, and people like you, really need to open a history book. Make sure to cross reference with past foreign relations strategies.
We can start with the first Nakba
We’re not in a vacuum. Two things can be true. She can honestly be pro Israel but also hope the turds that are the Likud Party lose power, work to end the genocide, and find a two-state solution - that is, if Hamas and Bibi will allow it, which they won’t.
This binary all-or-nothing, zero sum bs is just toxic and ignorant.
Yeah it’s clear she wants a two state solution.
She can honestly be pro Israel but also hope the turds that are the Likud Party lose
I’m not invested in the Likud Party losing if the war continues to expand and drag on.
The issue isn’t with her “pro-Israel” policy, it’s with her “pro-Genocide” policy. That’s what’s driving the protests.
And that’s the rub. Is she really ‘pro genocide’? That is the question
Apparently no one in the comments has been paying attention. She’s been saying these same lines about Gaza since the convention speech.
There’s been a lot of FUD about it and .ml has been running wild denying anything even remotely pro peace from her.
At any rate literally all we need at this point is a president that tells Netanyahu he either accepts a negotiated return of remaining hostages and withdraws or he loses our weapons support.
But Biden is also doing his best to pump up their ammo supply so the next president actually doesn’t have the influence Biden could have had. It’s 2024 and I’m ashamed we didn’t learn from supporting South Africa and Iran into the flames. They’ve been shamelessly giving Israel our best military technology with no regard to their political situation. College students called this as the most likely path 2 decades ago, and here we are appearing to be caught by surprise.
There’s been a lot of FUD about it and .ml has been running wild denying anything even remotely pro peace from her.
Maybe they lived through an election before and actually developed a theory of politics that incorporates the lessons they learned in a way that implies they were not born yesterday
Perhaps they pay attention to the words that come out of the other side of her mouth instead of selectively listening in a way that allows you to project whatever you want to believe onto her
It’s 2024 and I’m ashamed we didn’t learn from supporting South Africa and Iran into the flames.
We did learn. Just all the wrong lessons. Iran taught us that you can ride a wave of hate for 50 years. South Africa taught us that you crack down on the BDS movement day one and keep the media on lock for your Apartheid friends.
I hate that you’re right. I want to live in a country that’s actually moral.
Fun fact, there’s a 2008 law that specifically forces the president to give Israel all the best military hardware.
It was passed by W on his way out the door, and due to the Democratic party being compromised as hell, there’s never been enough votes to get rid of it, and any time the president might want to hold things back, they get sued under that law.
Biden and Obama both could have used the leahy law on day one. We have evidence going that far back that Israel systematically commits war crimes, including occupying Palestine in an illegal manner. To be clear there is a way they could have done it legally. But things including extending their own, civilian, legal system into the occupied areas preclude it being legal.
Literal last minute shilling bruh
If she had said this once like even 2 weeks ago, people might have actually listened
Oh, a candidate said what they’d do in office?
R - he tells it like it is
D - shilling
Got it. Blocked, troll.
Never even mentioned Republicans.
My point is she spent her entire campaign ignoring this problem until literally the last minute.
People already voted on Sunday in Michigan. Even if you think this would have changed people’s minds, she could have said it 2 days ago and still had more effect.
Bullshit, she’s been saying basically that same sequence of lines, starting with the convention speech (maybe even before but I don’t remember), at rallies and in some interviews. I think her saying it with protesters shouting at the rally made the media hype it up a bit more, but what she said yesterday is pretty much the same lines she’s used on the topic the whole campaign.
The only variation has been the first few words. She started out with “Now is the time to …blah blah blah” to “I will work hard to … blah blah” to now “I will do everything in my power to …blah blah”. After that intro phrase, the rest of the lines have been the same every time.
The genocide in Gaza.
It is not useful for Harris to call the genocide a genocide because it would hurt her chances of being elected. If Trump is elected instead of Harris, the genocide will continue until all Palestinians are dead.
Since we want the genocide to end before all Palestinians are dead it is not useful to demand that Harris calls the genocide a genocide because that hurts the chances of the genocide ending while Palestinians are still alive.
Since we want the genocide to end before all Palestinians are dead it is not useful to demand that Harris calls the genocide a genocide
Fucking liberalism in a nutshell.
No, it’s utility. The idea that we can achieve our goals despite not currently having leftists and socialists in power. Not wanting to get your hands dirty isn’t even a political position.
No idea how you plan to achieve your goals when your first step is Holocaust denial.
Genocide and war aren’t mutually exclusive. The Holocaust happened during WWII.
I understand how politics works, and I can understand some of the many complications and consequences involved, but words have meaning, and meaning conveys truth.
So if you want to represent the nuanced, complex (one sided) world of real politik, then that is certainly a good exercise. “in my power” is doing a lot of heavy lifting here, especially since she’s committed to, let’s say, bend the truth quite a bit with this sentence.
But skepticism alone isn’t analysis. I think by saying this she is trying to lure over “Uncommitted” conscientious objectors who are on the fence and may withhold their vote. But by not speaking strongly enough, she will never reach the vast majority of those people. This assurance feels empty to me. She’s not an ardent supporter of Palestinians, but who can see the future? Events are rapid and things change, "We exist in a context, all that.
But there are disadvantages to people only taking political action by way of their votes, and maybe this is one of them.
I hope she wins. But if she doesn’t the dems will blame those same voters, along with Greens (which, whatever) and any other third party voters instead of coming to grips with their many many failings over the last 8 - 10 years.
So if you want to represent the nuanced, complex (one sided) world of real politik, then that is certainly a good exercise.
No, unlike your argument, I’m not arguing we split hairs over semantics.
she will never reach the vast majority of those people.
Unless.
She committed to ending the war in Gaza. If the war ends, the genocide ends. Tell people.
No she committed to do everything in her power to end the war. Very different. Sometimes “splitting hairs” isn’t just semantically, especially when it is political. Tell People.
Your argument is splitting hairs. If you care about the Palestinian people then tell people the truth. Harris wants to end the war in Gaza. Trump wants Israel to finish the job. Tomorrow is election day. It’s time to help the Palestinian people in the most useful way we can. By getting Kamala Harris and Tim Walz elected. Splitting hairs over Harris’ words is not useful.
Way to stay on message
This reads as a joke but it’s actually true 😂
Like her ads I’m sure she has a more pro Israel slant in other cities.
Your still not saying the magic words harris. Repeat after me: ‘i will enforce american laws regarding war crimes until israel obeys international laws regarding war crimes and genocide’. You’ve waited too long and i doubt you’ll do it before you need to tomorrow.
Actually I’m pretty sure you just demanded that she look into the disagreement in Israel. Which she did, so you owe her now. Stop changing your demands! It’s your fault they ignore the left. /s
child, shes well aware of whats going on in gaza. they, the biden admin, knows exactly the situation and they know its a genocide. They’ve known most of this year. I certainly didn’t demand she look into it. I’m demanding she apply the US law as written to israel.
Sorry to have accidentally trolled you, I was being sarcastic.
Finally some positive words now for acting on it, if she gets a chance.
In a presidential democracy she has all the power if she wants it.
It’s completely in her power to stop whitewashing a genocide and creating false equivalences by calling it a “war”.
Not if she wants to get elected. I’ve said since the convention that they’re trying their best to not piss off either side and that’s mostly been their strategy. Even when she’s releasing statements on the death of Hamas and Hezbollah leaders she’s very careful to say, as an American leader, I’m glad this dude, who killed Americans, is dead.
Of course that was evidence of her being a flaming Zionist to people who want Trump elected.
If she came out against Israel she would get a 6 point bump in the polls and win a landslide. Democrats in swing states outperform her in every poll.
You are completely full of shit; just saying whatever stupid shit you feel like you want to be true
shut the fuck up
Even when she’s releasing statements on the death of Hamas and Hezbollah leaders she’s very careful to say, as an American leader, I’m glad this dude, who killed Americans, is dead.
Oh shit, you don’t say? Celebrating the assassination of the people she supposedly wants to negotiate a peace deal makes people (with a fucking brain) think she’s a raging zionist?
THATS BECAUSE THEY HAVE A FUCKING BRAIN
Not until after the election. She’s walking a wire trying to get nonMAGA republicans to vote for her in order to save Democracy. They need to at least pretend to believe she won’t completely abandon Israel. If she can beat Trump, she’ll then be free to call a genocide a genocide. In any case, Trump wants to end the war by letting his buddy Bibi nuke Gaza and just fucking kill all the Palestinians. A “final solution” as it were.
Bibi hates her, so that’s a good start.
Considering that him and Trump talk all the time, I would say he isn’t excited for Harris. He knows when the war is over, he is fucked. Remember, he tried to remove their supreme court before the war.
I think it’s fair to say we all want the death and suffering to end. I’m curious, however, about the overarching goals of those advocating for Stein and such. Some people have suggested that Russia and China stand to benefit the most from America cutting off support to Israel. Russia has certainly vied for influence in the region and generally picks up whatever America leaves behind for pennies on the Ruble.
To summarize my question: if the US cut off support to Israel with the intent of ending genocide, wouldn’t Israel simply partner with Russia or China instead?
I don’t see how this helps Gaza, but it seems like to make the situation worse.
wouldn’t Israel simply partner with Russia or China instead?
Why would either of those countries pick up such a pointless financial burden, though? The US has spent $17.9 billion in military aid just since October 2023. I’m not sure Russia could afford to sustain that sort of spending long-term, and even if they could, what do they get from it? They get another piece of baggage to further isolate them on the international stage, while also conveniently pissing off local Muslim populations they’ve been cultivating influence with, and potentially stirring things up back home with Muslim separatist groups that have been known to pop off the odd attack or civil war from time to time.
Likewise, China can get all the natural resources Israel could offer them on better terms and at lower cost elsewhere, without any of the drawbacks that backing Israel in the absence of the US would bring them. China already has a presence in the region in relationships with Gulf states, they don’t need Israel. What, Israel is going to win them over with some cheaper citrus, or something?
People keep saying, “But what if Russia or China backed Israel instead?” without any reason for either to do so.
If USA stops funding genocide, somebody else will probably. What about russia and china??!?!! Amirite?
It’s a chance worth taking. Worst case scenario is that USA opposes a genocide instead of contributing. Best case is that the genocide ends.
What’s with the fictional quote?
Ignoring that, I think the best and worst case scenarios are too optimistic.
Worst case: Israel continues war with support from Russia and/or China. US loses influence and ally. Atrocities increase. Violence spreads.
In that case the US can just arm the resistance groups. Nothing bad has ever happened by doing that.
Right?! I think that’s probably a real risk
