With the different distros of Linux, do different things support different distros? Like Zoom is support on Arch but not Mint, and Steam is supported in Mint but not Arch; or if an app supports Linux, it is on all distros? And if there is differences, do you have different partitions for different types of Linux?
Distributions are all of the same operating system, they differ in the set of applications and installation management tools. Except for those with different libc than glibc, things will generally work everywhere. Maybe with some effort.
When an app supports linux, it can do so by either:
- packaging it for popular distro repositories,
- giving instructions on how to build the app from the source code
or
- package it on distro-agnostic, package management solutions like flatpak or appImage.
These last ones are sandboxed environments. That means they have their own dependencies isolated from your system, so they dont have to deal with every distros pecularities at the cost of using more storage space. This is very useful for developers and in your case benefitial for the user because you can have both steam and zoom via flatpak on mint, arch or any obscure distro that has flatpak available, without any major problems.
Edit: Formatting
Yup. The big downside to flatpak is that, as you said, it takes up more space.
To make a Windows comparison, imagine needing to install Java separately for every single program that needs it. Flatpaks tend to be orders of magnitude larger than technically necessary, simply because they’re sandboxed and come with everything they need to run, even if you already have it installed.
All distros are equivalent, as far as software is concerned. They all have access to the same open source software, and Flatpak; AppImage; and Snap can be used for extra portability.
Think of a distro like a pre-configured image of linux. You can always change the configuration later, if you desire. For example, the Desktop Environment. All you have to do is just install a different DE package (usually via command line)
The DE has a major impact on user experience. Use KDE plasma for a more windows-familiar experience, or Gnome for a more Mac-familiar experience. Or experiment with others
The Linux Experiment is a good resource
Summary: M$ hates their users more than ever.
I don’t think they think about the user at all.
They want that telemetry/ad money baby!
the enshitification will continue until profits improve
It’s only enshitification for us.
We have all heard this song before and know how it ends.
Yeah. A lot of people loudly declaring that they’re switching to Linux, followed by them staying with Windows anyway.
My steam deck has taught me that I’ll be completely OK running linuxn(probably arch) as my daily driver with a win 11 dual boot (maybe just a vm?) for things that simply won’t work on proton.
SteamOS is not the same as its base Arch Linux. If you want something slightly easier but still Arch-based, try EndeavourOS (but please not Manjaro).
If you have the time, try switching on your own terms within the next year. It’s almost guaranteed you’ll run into issues, but trying to dual-boot now rather than later gives you all the time you need to figure it out before MS forces you on Windows 11.
Fortunately this won’t be my first dance with dual booting Linux, I’ve tried it a half dozen times since the late 90s, going as far back as multibooting booting slackware, nt4 and win98. I’m sure I’ll go through a few distros before settling on one that works for me. I’ve also got 6 drives in my pc (2 nvme, 2 sata ssd and 2 HDD) so I have lots of room to play. One major thing for me is HDR support which is pretty new in Linux so I’m not sure where we stand on that.
Genuine question, what are your criticisms of Manjaro? I’ve been on it since about 2019, and haven’t had any major complaints.
For me, it feels like the best mix of features I’ve found so far. Pacman, AUR, very up-to-date repos, and Archwiki, without a lot of the major PITA manual labor I experienced with Arch. No shade on Arch, I just don’t have time in my life to constantly be tinkering and fixing basic stuff I want to just work.
Curious why some people recommend against Manjaro now.
Manjaro as a project is amateur hour, over and over again. Their practice of holding back packages is bad, causing many version conflict problems. Their software DDOSing repos is bad, they can try to pass the blame to pamac, but they are the ones shipping it. Their repeated inability to keep certificates updated is bad.
EndeavourOS should be recommended over Manjaro every time.
Interesting, I’ll give it a shot on my next rig. Looks like it came out after I’d already gotten comfy with Manjaro.
Can’t say with my use case I’ve run into any of those issues, though the cert stuff sounds kinda gnarly, especially to happen more than once.
It’s hard to argue against “ain’t broke why fix”, and frankly, I’m surprised your install has lasted so long without going sideways heh. If you avoid the AUR that’s probably helped. And I actually do believe manjaro has improved in the last year or two - it’s just difficult to recommend while endeavour and archinstall exist.
Give Bazzite a try if you like Steam OS
Do not use Arch as a daily driver if you are a beginner.
Despite what some people will try to claim, Arch is not stable.
You may want to try Arch in a vm before daily driving it. It’s an excellent distro, but vanilla Arch is a far cry from SteamOS.
I’m in a similar boat. There have been some setbacks, but I’ve been planning a desktop build to replace my gaming laptop from 2015 for a long while now. SteamOS has given me the confidence to commit to an AMD build with a Linux OS. I’ve been on the fence between a few distro options though. Maybe mint, maybe Nobara, there have been a few others.
Is it going to be able to run decent games? I’m curious about support for GPUs. I guess VR won’t be a thing for a while.
VR “works”, but as someone who uses it, I can’t reccomend it for now.
Compatibility is wildly different between headsets. And no matter which route you take, you will need to tinker and troubleshoot. There is no plug and play solution right now.
If you want to plug in your VR headset, and just play some games, stick to Windows for now. If you’re fine tinkering around, there’s always SteamVR, but also check out Envision and Monado.
As for desktop games, you can find what works on ProtonDB. Most games work fine, with the exception of games with kernel level anti-cheat.
https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/18A4-1E10-8A94-3DDA
Can confirm VR works!
I’ve been daily driving Endeavour OS for a few months now and it’s great. It’s Arch based so there is a learning curve but it’s worth getting over the hump.
Win10 LTSC still has quite a few years left.
It’s not available for individual consumers though unless you pirate it, isn’t it? (which makes it perfectly good reason to pirate it)
Pirating it is a bad idea if you’re downloading it from a non-Microsoft source, since malware would be a big risk. That would defeat the purpose of installing a supported OS in the first place. If you download it from Microsoft and use a pirated key maybe that would work, but would you get the security updates?
Are there people downloading Windows copies somewhere else than straight from Microsoft? I haven’t used Windows on my computers in 10 years but back then you installed it in trial mode and then activated / kept it activated with KMS tools.
Type “github MAS” into your favorite search engine.
Oh, how nice of Microsoft to host it!
What’s the point of staying with Windows 10? You’re just pushing the problem further ahead in time. You might as well start leaning Linux now, instead of waiting til you have no other choice.
Windows Mixed Reality (ie: Windows VR) was deprecated and removed from Windows 11.
So, if you have a WMR VR Set, you’re going to be stuck with Windows 10 (or an even lesser supported Version of windows 11 - v 23H2).
It really sucks, given the price point I’ve throughly enjoying my Odyssey+. I’ve had it for 4 years, but now I’d need to decide if I dual boot (which sucks) or see if another VR headset reaches my price point (which is also dumb, because I don’t find the O+ to be “that bad”).
I can only speak for myself, but I have always had bad luck with Linux on desktop. Something always breaks, isn’t compatible, or requires a lengthy installation process involving compiling multiple libraries because no .deb or .rpm is available.
On servers, it’s fantastic. If you count VMs, I have far more Linux installations than Windows. In general, I use Win10 LTSC for anything that requires a GUI and Ubuntu Server for anything that only needs CLI or hosts a web interface.
My experience with Arch and BTRFS has been nothing but great. If my system break I can just roll back a snapshot.
I avoid Debian, Ubuntu or other distros that hold back package versions because that’s where the problem starts in my opinion. I shouldn’t have to use workarounds to install the packages I want. Arch with the AUR just work so far.
Try Pop_OS!, it just works.
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At least for me, the whole “made by devs for devs” isn’t really the major downfall. It’s the fact that it can’t be trusted to remain functional in a dynamic environment. I like using the command line, but sometimes that’s just not enough.
If I need a specific software package, I can download the source, compile it, along with the 100 of libraries that they chose not to include in the .tar.gz file, and eventually get it running.
However, when I do an “apt update” and it changes enough, then the binary I compiled earlier is going to stop working. Then I spend hours trying to recompile it along with it’s dependencies, only to find that it doesn’t support some obscure sub-version of a package that got installed along with the latest security updates.
In a static environment, where I will never change settings or install software (like my NAS), it’s perfect. On my desktop PC, I just want it to work well enough so I can tinker with other things. I don’t want to have to troubleshoot why Gnome or KDE isn’t working with my video drivers when all I want to do is launch remote desktop so I can tinker with stuff on a server that I actually want to tinker with.
Ironic that Windows has become the same way. New functionality is available first as a Powershell command before the GUI control is written. This is because those are two efforts. First you write the function then you need to call the function from a GUI element.
Ironic #2 is that Pop_OS comes with more settings available in the GUI than any other Linux I have used. Maybe you haven’t tried it.
To say no distro can fix is nonsense. Any distro can make new GUI elements and because it’s open source once the work is done other distros can add the same to their own menus.
Just like it has taken Microsoft over a decade to develop the new settings app, they still haven’t achieved feature parity with the control panel. This should make obvious how much hard work is required.
So the solution is that we just need to write more GUI menus for linux and I’m fine with that. It’s nice to have the option to use a menu or edit the text file. Then everyone gets what they want.
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Yes, literally everything you mentioned can be changed in the gui of pop_os. You should really try it before being so confidently incorrect. It’s not a matter of won’t because they already did. They are making improvements all the time.
Most of those CLI instances I had to do on week one.
Since then… Hardly ever. (On Pop_OS!)
Might try again. It’s come leaps and bounds in the past few years. I’ve been Linux only for the past few years after dual booting for many and the one thing I miss is game pass. Every game I’ve tried on steam or gog works — often better than on windows.
Some people just need to use Windows you know?
But if you can’t run Windows 11 then you’re on your own once the support for 10 stops…
Ok, but if you need to use Windows then people telling you “Just install Linux” isn’t a solution.
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Staying on an old and unsecure OS sure is a solution, but it’s incredibly fucking stupid.
At least you could install Linux and use an old Windows version inside a VM instead of running a vulnerable system on bare metal. That way you can still use Windows when you need to.
Windows isn’t any less vulnerable now than 1 week after end of support.
People with exploits available that are unpatched are waiting for that end of support. It increases the value of their unreleased exploit.
QEMU is para-virtualization at near native speeds and supports GPU pass through for ya vidyagames.
Needing Windows isn’t just about video games
Sucks to be you then.
This is going to have a much bigger impact on the third would countries.
Most people here are not going to buy a new computer there are tons of people who buy second hand laptops that are old to be able to afford them.
Additionally people are not tech savvy and don’t understand the implication of this. When they see an ad that says to buy a new computer, they are going to dismiss it the same way they dismiss all the other ads online telling them to buy stuff.
Recently decided to try Linux for gaming. It wasn’t without a hitch or two, but largely fine. A number of games I play don’t even need an emulation tool like Proton.
The only reason windows was lying around was for gaming.
Looks like it’ll only get used for flight simulation.
X-plane natively supports Linux, works using proton too.
I’d stoped flying x plane when MSFS came out. Will give it a whirl too.
Wine Is Not an Emulator
(Proton is wine)
Proton uses Wine along with many other technologies
Yes, it’s also not an emulator.
Same here but for sim racing
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Peripherals. AFAIK Fanatec gear doesn’t run on Linux yet.
There are some drivers: https://jugandoenlinux.com/tutoriales/volantes.html
Thanks for this. I’m kinda concerned about attempting this on my current machine. I’ve got it set up as a music studio PC with Steam as a secondary feature. It works great with all my recording peripherals so I’m hesitant to introduce additional complexity to it with these drivers. I’d like to move away from Win entirely but its not exactly a do or die situation for me right now.
My linux install is on its own SDD separate from Win. I only use WIN for simracing and counter-strike so that use case is very limited. Also I don’t think iRacing’s anti-cheat runs on Linux yet? I’ll have to investigate.
Barring Gamefreaks games, most of the popular racing games do not support Linux well. Forza 4/5, Asseto Corsa, iRacing, Crew.
Haven’t. Will check it out! Thanks.
Not a lot of updates in 2024 unfortunately. Is it dead?
It is not. It is open source, there will be updates when there will be updates, they are not pressured by board of directors to release something that doesn’t work.
I suggest checking the discord for more information, including endless stream of screenshots, to get an idea about state of the project.
I have edited the comment above to add link
https://sourceforge.net/p/flightgear/flightgear/ci/next/tree/
This random git repo I picked from their source forge page seems to have some pretty recent commits. I’m guessing they just have a slow release cycle.
Oh no! Anyway, nobody cares but Linux folks looking to prove how much better Linux is.
And tax payers who have to replace perfectly good systems in schools and government offices.
There will be DOZENS of 10 year old computers that survived 10n years of service in a library or student run orgs. Dozens I tell you!
Let’s fix school funding instead of using it as an edge case to support old ass hardware that can barely hold 10fps in a zoom call.
Here in my southeast European shithole I’m not worrying about my tax money, the upgrade is going to be pretty cheap, they’re just going to switch from unlicensed XP to unlicensed Win7.
I’ll switch my windows drive to the LTSC IoT version, when this happens. The only reason I have dual boot is for a fallback, if some games make trouble. For example for whatever reason BG3 multiplayer freezes randomly on linux. Single player is fine though. So until I got that sorted out I can fall back to windows. But when even the LTSC support runs out, then that’s it completely for me.
Windows 10 will have been around for 10 years at that point. That’s a pretty good run. You know another OS that is stopping support after 10 years? Ubuntu 14 LTS, but no one complains about that. People freaked out when Windows 7 went EOL, and XP before that.
XP was kind of a F up for MS, they gave us a really decent OS that raised our expectations. People ran that for almost 2 decades because no one wanted the new OS’s MS was putting out like ME and Vista. Win 8 was out when XP support fully ended and many people chose to go with the older Win 7 because it was less intrusive and more like a PC OS instead of trying to become like a Apple/phone/tablet interface. XP>Win 7>Win 10>Win 11 imo and all the unmentioned weren’t worth upgrading for, but I don’t use my phone for the internet and I’ve been using a PC for over 40 years. We like what’s familiar and we can use without having to think too much about the tool used to achieve what we’re doing. I have Win 11 on a laptop and I have to jump through a lot more hoops to control my desktop, who can pull my info, what can install, what can run in the background. And every update I have to do it again because they add shit back in again along with new stuff I don’t want or need. Win 10 professional at least minimized how often they’d add new stuff or change my existing settings. Win 11 Pro doesn’t seem nearly as friendly.
Ubuntu isn’t as paid as Windows. Also, newer Ubuntu versions don’t need the user to throw their machine away because TPM 2.0 or NPUs are missing. Maybe these are two of the main reasons why nobody is complaining about its EOL.
I just find it fucking hilarious that people expect software to be supported in excess of 10 years, paid or not, when that’s never really been the case over the past 40 years of software. Sure someone will probably come up with an edge case somewhere, but if you developed software, and continually released versions and updates, would you want to maintain a version you released that long ago?
Problem is that newer systems aren’t compatible with “old” hardware. So to you know, these computers being disregarded are still functional machines, if it weren’t for Microsoft and other big techs bringing new requirements. What to do with lots of machines that doesn’t have TPM 2.0? Ditch em all, contributing to more e-waste? This thought almost rendered an paralyzed man unable to walk again, as an “old” $100k exoskeleton was deemed “out-of-warranty”.
Linux booted on a machine from 1971.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/09/hacker-boots-linux-on-intels-first-ever-cpu/
I just used Emacs a little while ago. A piece of software that’s been supported since fucking 1985. There is no technical reason for Windows 11 not to work on a machine that’s only a few years old and ran 10 just fine. It’s literally still the same NT kernel. In the past, you could still upgrade, and your computer might slow down and struggle a bit to run the newer OS, but it did run. This time, for the first time, they are forcibly cutting off older PCs for no good reason other than the TPM bullshit.
Spit out that corporate Kool aid.
Linux works fine on older machines and can give them new life.
I recently had to use a smart phone that is over 10 years old (Samsung Galaxy S5 mini) and believe it or not, YouTube and Facebook Messenger still worked. It was slow a hell but it still worked fine.
Well, MS did at one point say Windows 10 would be the last windows and they’d just keep updating it.
It’s not an expectation of 10 years of software but hardware support. I’m sure people would have upgraded to W11 if they could but unimaginable amount of hardware is going to be stranded for the dubious benefits of TPM 2.0.
I’d rather pay for security updates than invite more AI and Microsoft sponsored spyware onto my computer…
Good. I happen to know companies that will have to kick out some rather nice machines that happen to be just under spec for Win11. Those machines are still top for running Linux.
The year of OpenBSD desktop it is, then!
I’m serious, I’m getting burnout not just from Windows, but even from Linux.
And saying that every GUI is easier to use than every TUI or every config file format is wrong.
GUIs can be hard and easy to use. Config file formats can be hard and easy to use.
The fallacy is that GUIs can theoretically be navigated “intuitively” without looking for documentation for setting up stuff, but in fact I dare you try it.
OpenBSD was the easiest system to maintain on desktop I’ve had.
Unfortunately, I wanted Wine and gamez.
OK, no rtw88 for OpenBSD, so … no.
So, could users just ignore that and just buy an anti-virus product or use 0patch? If it’s like Widows 8, most apps will still be updated for a few years.
Generally speaking that’s ill-advised, antimalware tools rely on heuristics and active samples.
You don’t wanna be the first person to get xyz virus. It’s certainly better than nothing though.
Unless you have an app you can’t live without Linux is the most accessible than it ever has been.
As a heavy user of Playit Live, Excel with macros and Google Drive, I’m stuck in a Windows World for a while yet. The first two could maybe run in Boxes if I send the audio to a USB device.
The most important thing to get updates in the browser tbh. That’s the source of nearly everything bad these days, and the main reason somebody would bother to update their PC.
I reckon they’ll continue providing updates for those for as long as there’s enough people using it. It’s not like Google are going to willing turn round and go “whelp, no more adverts and spying for these millions of users!”
I’m probably one of the last people who use Win 8.1. The only thing I use there is Smart Switch to back up my phone. For everything else, there is Mint. I’ll keep up with that setup until my hardware fails.
