I did retirement home training and used to think it was a sweet job. Then I got in the business and underestimated how demoralizing it was as they give you the easy elders in training while the others make you, or at least me, really think of the fact the job just amounts to an unkarmic freebie.
Lobbyists
Senior Bribery Logistic Engineers*
What about a lobbyist who works for say the Electronic Frontier Foundation? Or a nurses union. Or who works for the Sierra Club, or some organization trying to protect the environment?
“Lobbying” is just talking to a politician on behalf of a person or group. If the Hollywood studios all hire lobbyists to talk to representatives about why copyright terms should be longer and DRM should be mandatory, doesn’t it make sense that there should be people telling the other side?
I get that too often lobbyists overstep ethical boundaries. Often, they either effectively bribe politicians, or they write up laws allowing the politician to just rubber-stamp them. But, you could shore up and/or enforce laws restricting that kind of thing, while still allowing a representative of a group to meet with a politician and explain their point of view.
Yeah, I mean the bribery kind. We need to overturn Citizens United
“influencers” should not exist in their form today. If you are to peddle a brand, you get to be responsible (as in legally liable) for the claims made
my feeling is, is if you are going to be selling a product and you use certain words or phrases like “scientifically proven” or “research shows…” that you need to reference your claim.
That’s not enough… not just because nobody would read it but because there is a LONG tradition of marketing funded junk science so they could very easily come up with some shitty paper that backs whatever they are saying.
The tobacco industry was famous for this and for years they produced studies that showed smoking was good for you
The tobacco industry still actively does this. For example, they published papers promoting vaping as a public health initiative–tobacco cessation or harm reduction, they called it. One of the doctors, for example, was a sex therapist. Another got his medical degree in the Virgin Islands. All published under the guise of a legitimate “think-tank” with the basic premise of, “how do we address the public health impact of smoking?”
See? Literally, this behaviour is why we can’t have nice things
Lobbyist
Let’s say you lose your job because a company lays you off without notice amid record profits. With your new found free time, you get so angry you go to your state senators and representatives and try to convince them to make a law limiting layoffs to a 6 month notice period for profitable companies. You are now a lobbyist. You are saying not to lobby the government full time. But for the sake of clarity let’s say your coworkers also got laid off and pooled their money to send you to lobby on their behalf, you are now a paid lobbyist.
I feel like most people that complain about lobbyists are really just complaining about corporate lobbyists or lobbying groups paid by corporations. Lobbyists are a good and necessary part of any democracy.
You are saying not to lobby the government full time
Yeah did you read the question? It asked what occupation. What’s the point of your entire monologue it’s irrelevant.
I absolutely read the question, accusing me of reading comprehension problems while having serious reading comprehension problems is some reddit level stupidity. Reread what I wrote, you read the first half and ignored the second half. I was merely illustrating that many paid lobbyist do very worthwhile things. From labor rights, to environmental justice, to human rights. The issue isn’t lobbyists, the issue is corporate lobbyists…
i wish that people had as vivid of imagination when thinking of ways to build a mass movement to fix the problems with our deeply dysfunctional “democracy” designed by and for the benefit of the wealthy 1%, as they did when trying to find excuses as to why every single part of said political system is totally irreplaceable and in fact is functioning perfectly within the best system possible.
A better world is possible.
I think you’re misattributing my intent. If you want to make corporate lobbying illegal or highly regulated I’m all for it. But lobbying overall is an inherently good and important part of politics. If you merely talk to a politician about a bill you want to pass you are lobbying. But you are likely very bad at it compared to a professional, so you pay an organization to do it on your behalf. Do you expect politicians to live in a black box completely disconnected from constituent issues as long as they are in office? Because that’s how you get laws passed that have nothing to do with human need. If I donate to the ACLU, HRC, or an environmental group, I expect that some of my money will be spent on lobbying congress. That is not bad or evil.
I volunteer with a few (American) political organizations and have connections to politicians and organizations. we have people who we elect democratically who are highly educated, highly motivated, and politically plugged in who talk with politicians all over the world all the time! We are in coalition with an elected politician who is a member of the Irish Daìl, which is like their house of reps, every day we talk with him and ask him questions, and his organization and ours trade information, ideas, articles, book recommendations, you name it. We’ve sent delegates to Cuba to meet with the President, and groups who oppose his government. Weve sent peoole all over the country and the world for political work and ive gotten to have some amazing experiences participating just a little bit in this kind of work. If people won’t talk to us we hold rallys and protests and make them talk to us. Similar to how you described, we pay dues, publish magazines and even participate in national and international debates. Our members have been on tv, podcasts, YouTube, and we are working toward creating our own. And that’s just one of the orgs I’m in, another has members in congress, and its not the GOP or the Dems.
So sorry, no, you’re wrong. Even if there are (purely hypothetical) cases where the system you are describing does work for people, there is no accountability to the people and it really only works to keep professional operators in Washington speaking on behalf of their own interests and the interests of the orgs that pay them. I know good people who are lobbyists, who lobby to do good things. But their position is in no way a political necessity. Grassroots bottom up politics is not only possible its the only way to have real democracy. The top down structures you advocate for only create and reproduce the conditions of exploitation, poverty, immiseration and war. Sorry friend, but I just dont buy it.
An alternate view for you, politicians can’t possibly be expected to know about everything, care about every cause, meet with every person. One of lobbyists roles is to educate and motivate where otherwise politicians may be complacent. The reason that education is currently problematic is because powerful people control much of the “education”. I think a well regulated lobbying system could remove some of the downsides while keeping the upsides. I’ve also worked in and around politics, that reality doesn’t make either one of us more or less correct.
Yeah I can tell you have some experience in political spaces, most people online lose their cool talking politics, but you’re just firmly stating your position. Which I disagree with, and that’s okay! I disagree with people inside my own orgs all the time, sometimes loudly! The fact is its a very complicated system. And power is deeply entrenched. There’s nothing to be gained for the org that’s too “radical” to engage in mainstream politics, every city has a group or two like this. They can even have very good politics and analysis but you have to be able to build power, and frankly its just easier to talk a big game and collect dues payments or donations.
It seems to me that you’re at least a progressive, as you are reform minded and that’s great! That basically puts us on the same side of systematic injustice. There might be some issues we couldn’t reconcile but in my experience it doesn’t necessarily mean we couldn’t work together or even end up on the same side of a protest. Despite my polemics, I’m a through and through humanist. But I’m deeply skeptical of parliamentary democracy, not to the degree where I discourage voting, but I’m more concerned with educating workers and regular people than the politicians. I’m proud of the educational work we’ve been able to accomplish in the last year alone; it wasn’t long ago that democratic leaders were calling support for Palestinians a Russian misinformation campaign, now its one of the most pressing issues for the international working class. Not saying “we did that,” but we did our part in boosting the signal and cutting through the noise.
Anyway I very strongly do not believe lobbyists are necessary to democracy and I work to try and create a world where they wouldn’t be (although that’s not exactly the highest on our list of priorities, god knows.) But in the world as it exists today, these structures exist and that’s just a fact. I believe the work I contribute to is a necessary part of a healthy democracy, and you’re a reasonable person who believes that lobbying work is an important part of the system.
Today, the system needs us both to work together and part of that is having lively discussions and educating one another. Maybe some piece of what you said will stay with me or serve as a reminder some time in the future, and maybe the reverse also. We don’t have to be won over to each other’s ideas for them to have an effect. And we got all these other people contributing to the discussion as well. That’s pretty cool to me. So yeah we have a difference of opinion, but we are both coming from a place of education and experience, trying to solve the same problems from different ends of the same dynamic system. At least I hope that’s what’s going on here.
Thanks for the discussion, I appreciate you.
And, even if you do lobby the government full time, what if you’re a lobbyist who works on behalf of environmental groups. If the Sierra Club wants to alert politicians about a secret clause snuck into a new bill regulating coal mines, they can hire you to talk to the right people. If a town like Flint, Michigan is having trouble with contamination of their water supply, they can hire you to find the right people to talk to.
Maybe in an ideal world every politician would have enough time and enough staff to fully investigate things on their own. But, in the real world, we’re probably always going to need people to talk to the decision makers and advocate on our behalf.
What we really should have is good oversight and tight rules to ensure it’s just talking and not doing favors, giving money, etc.
Yeah, hatred for lobbyists may realiy be hatred for corporate influence, but they don’t have to be the same thing. Limiting corporate money in politics, and adding some thirds rule would be go a long way
Up voting for your last paragraph. Totally agree. Lobbyists only interested in corporate profit are evil.
Some food jobs make me think we get carried away with what food is supposed to entail.
Elaborate please?
We could go our entire lives without the existence of a large majority of things which are taken for granted in the culinary sphere and still get the same appreciation out of food.
“Influencers”, advertisers, and just about every Wall Street job.
Middle-men of any kind. Facilitators, landlords, middle-management positions… They’re all worthless and contribute nothing to society but bullshit.
People think this without a hint of irony, and yet have never worked in a place without management. Good management improves productivity and efficiency, while also shielding workers from executives. Bad/no management almost always leads to chaos.
It’s like the whole idea of not having leaders; it’s a great theory, but it assumes that everyone is capable of working together perfectly towards the same goal, when the reality is that not everyone has the same goal.
Middlemen, etc., are trading in knowledge. They know who can do what, and decrease duplication of effort.
Honestly, I feel like many problems with the modern workplace stem from executives’ insulation from the workforce.
Being a middle manager (and therefore biased), I view my role as the person who serves the team by:
- being a firewall from upper management
- giving the team the things they need to do their jobs
- removing the things in their way
This allows them to do their jobs as best they can. Could they get by without me? Probably. But they would have a worse time and not be able to work as effectively.
Flippers. Any kind of flippers
Marketing. Anything having to do with marketing.
I’m a big fan of Bill Hicks’ philosophy in regards to those people.
Not aware of Bill Hicks’ take, but marketing effectively amounts to manipulating people into buying things that they otherwise would not.
There’s only 3 kinds of advertising that work on me.
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“My business supports [thing I like] financially!” Ok, that’s fair. You donate to them, I purchase from you over competitors.
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“Hello, I run [business]. I make sure to patronize [other business] to support [business] because [other business] does quality work. Check them out!” For some reason, this resonates with me. It sounds way more honest.
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“Here is a picture of tasty food”. FOOOOOOOD 🤤
The only advertising I want is a list of specs for the product and maybe a video demonstration of it’s capabilities (not a highly edited misleading video like most advertising we see today).
I wouldn’t class that as advertising… That’s just product info, so you know what you’re buying.
Yea. That’s what advertising should be. What it is is worthless nonsense which is why everyone blocks as much of it as they possibly can.
I got a postcard in the mail for Granta, a literary journal. On one side it said “Just subscribe, you know you want to.” On the other side it said “We promise, no poetry. Ever!”
(sigh) Subscribed.
Discovered one of my favorite books and authors that way:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/118585.Into_the_Heart_of_Borneo
There is exactly one ad that worked on me. It was a poster for a bottle of Oasis that said “you’re thirsty, we have quotas, let’s help each other out.”
Rebuttal/fact check:
- they donate 0.0015% of every $10+ purchase you make, on a Shursday, when it’s raining meatballs; additional terms and conditions apply
- [other company]: “we’ve never heard of them in our lives, but alright I guess?”
- “here is the food we advertise! and here is the garbage we slap together next to the dumpster out back that we actually serve at our fine establishments!”
Don’t trust anyone who needs to advertise. If they were actually good products/services, they wouldn’t need to advertise, as word of mouth and reputation does that for you. You don’t see any Rolls-Royce ads on primetime television…
If you find yourself interested because of advertising, always, always be skeptical of all claims. Don’t just believe, but research, verify.
Jesus Christ dude, get some therapy. Not everything is bullshit all the time.
Have you been to the USA?
If they were actually good products/services, they wouldn’t need to advertise
How do they get their first customers without advertising?
Friends and family, others who know you and your skills, etc
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Bad marketing makes me want to ship my pants.
You’re just going for that anti-marketing dollar
Anti-advertising advertising. Genius.
Marketing itself can be good, sadly the whole industry has gone off so far into the dark path that it’s irredeemable at this point.
Disagree with the first part. Agree with the second.
When I’m dictator they’ll be among the first up against the wall.
Fortunately for them, my lack of ambition and crippling video game addiction ensure I’ll never be dictator over anything more than my two cats.
Going after that anger dollar, I see. Big market.
Paparazzi, insurance companies (and I work in insurance), pay day loan companies/positions, and whoever cooks the chicken at cane’s cause that shit be dry as hell.
Their sauce too, omfg I like chicken but it’s like dipping the thing in liquid shit. How the fuck do they think this is the ideal sauce? Did they hire yes-men with no functional taste buds to decide on their sauce? When they were popping up around me a few years ago, family and friends tried them a couple times each. Everyone thought that, while the chicken is fine, the sauce kills it. Nobody I know has been back in… 7 years?
The best part is people fucking love that lane ass sauce too
Cane’s mystified me. They will have lines around the block in my area and I just don’t get it.
Anyone who is trying to sell me something
Boy, you don’t know what you’re missin’!
If only it were possible to maintain this state indefinitely
Data brokers and those bug-bounty fuckers. Both the buyers and sellers of exploits. They make the internet a worse place.
Hard agree on the data brokers, but what’s bad about bug bounty programs? I’d say it’s a good thing you get a reward if you help make a product more secure, and it helps discourage people from selling zero-days to black hats. Or do you mean black hat bug bounty systems? They are already super illegal
The legal hunters are cool. The black hat bounty hunters need to go choke on something thick and hard.
Bug bounties refer to specific programs that companies put in place to essentially reward white hat hackers for doing freelance offensive security audits.
I get what you’re trying to say, but you’re specifically referring to black hat hackers. Referencing bug bounties is muddying your meaning.
Are there still places that legally mandate car refueling operators? That seemed like a job that literally only existed to give some people a job.
If you’ve never seen the disaster some morons have caused at pumps…
I’ve read this response online and have seen online videos, but never met anyone who actually saw any such disaster. I’m not convinced this is at all common
that seemed like a job that literally only existed to give some people a job
That is exactly what it’s for, and it prevents a lot of worse problems just by existing. It significantly reduces crime rates by allowing people who otherwise couldn’t earn income, and provides a way for ex-cons to successfully reintegrate into society and not relapse, as well as providing low/no skill labor. It gives some a sense of purpose - retirees who physically can’t do any other work for example and need something to do.
It is literally there to give people jobs and its a good thing.
Let’s whip out the spoons and replace our excavators!
If you want convicts to have jobs, fix how society views them so that they’re not pariahs.
Right, this is much more important. We don’t need to require unnecessary jobs for ex-cons to find work, we need to do a better job of reintegrating them into society after they’ve done 5heir time
This is why I’m in favor of mandating everyone use horse-drawn carriages. Can’t let those carmen be out of work, spreading hooliganism
People downvoting you are very self-centered, they don’t understand the importance of a job for lots of people. Until we have UBI, jobs like these will always be necessary.
That money would be better spent sending them to school to learn something useful.
You missed the low/no skill part, didn’t you? There is a need for those.
Or are you the kind of scum that believes we all need to “earn” a living. As if every being isn’t entitled to exist unless in servitude to the economy. Fuck right off.
There are necessary jobs that are low skill.
Are there enough to satisfy your ghoulish need to make sure everyone is working?
… So you send them to school to learn a skill?
Or to mop the floor. There’s a low skill job that is actually necessary
The rest of the world proves there’s no need for people to pump your gas for you. Just about anyone can do that themselves. My point was that if this is the only way these people can be employed then we should instead take the money would they’d be paid for this and pay them to go to school instead so they can acquire the skills the need to get other jobs, whatever those jobs may be. Having them stand by a pump to put gas in people’s cars is just a waste of everyone’s time and resources. If this is somehow the only job they are capable of doing even with training available then just pay them to stay home. If there aren’t enough low skill jobs to go around this is a better solution then making up busy work for people to do.
There are undoubtedly people beginning to say the same thing about supermarket checkout attendants now. That doesn’t seem like a good thing to me.
Yes. And it’s really dumb.
Not just in the states either. They do it in Mexico and some of the operators use their job to rip off tourists. You have to make sure they reset the meter before they start pumping your gas.
Mexico, Peru, and New Jersey, USA are 3 places I know still do this.
Oregon does, or did if they stopped.
Looking at you NJ, you ridiculous grift if a state.
Papparazi. Fucking leeches
“the job just amounts to an unkarmic freebie.”
sorry, something about this phrase is not clicking in my mind, what do you mean?
Influencers. Just ad extensions.
Cops, prison guards, landlords.
