How come LED Light Bulbs only last for about 2-3 Years?
I’ve bought and replaced a lot of light bulbs, and I noticed that all of them said “up to 20,000 hours” which would be about 5 years given 12 hours of daily use (which we definitely don’t).
The bulbs themselves are amazing. There are good ones in cars and computers, the flash of phones etc.
The failure point is typically the electronic components that run or regulate it. And of course most companies want to sell more bulbs so they conveniently skimp on that stuff. So maybe the answer is a more expensive bulb that hopefully will last long enough to justify the extra cost?
What would you recommend that actually last long enough to justify the extra cost?
If you’re technically inclined, Big Clive has a tutorial for ‘fixing’ most bulbs not to overdrive the LEDs by removing or changing a single resistor. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HTa2jVi_rc
Make sure to choose lamp fittings that don’t trap the heat.
If you can get a hold of Dubai Led bulbs, they are supposed to last extremely long
https://hackaday.com/2021/01/17/leds-from-dubai-the-royal-lights-you-cant-buy/
Since people are just giving snarky douchebag replies, I’ll actually attempt to answer the question since that’s what this community is for?
The estimate given on the packages of these bulbs are absolute best case scenario, using an optimal temperature range and pattern of use that won’t really match up with the average household because:
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You may go on vacation and let your house get cold or hot. This could affect the life of thr bulb
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The manufacturer is likely leaving the bulbs on 24/7 when measuring. Most people turn lights on and off multiple times throughout the day. This can decrease the life of thr bulb, just like with any other electronic device.
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Humidity in the house can change dramatically year round. Manufacturing tests probably keep a constant humidity level.
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If you’re buying cheap random LED bulbs off Amazon from dogshit brands (i do thid too so not knocking you), the manufacturer estimates might just straight up be a lie.
I’m sure there are other reasons but that’s a good start.
LEDs can take quite a beating. The only thing that degrades then is being on, and being hot. For all purposes unless it’s inside a restaurant kitchen or they’re on, they’re not hot.
Other packaged electronic components follow the same rules. Except wires and solder that can oxidize without being used.
So no, I think that’s a grift if you can’t reach 5 years. When domestic LED lighting was in infancy we’d hear all power LEDs, like for cars, should last 10 years.
It wouldn’t degrade from being shut off and on a bunch of times? I know like HDDs can degrade faster if they’re constantly powered off and on.
Appreciate the feedback. I just tried to answer the question the best I could since at the time most of the replies were unhelpful and rude
Mechanical things suffer a lot of stress from turning on/off. But even spinning disk storage turns off automatically if desktop is idle for a certain time, it’s a balance between switch vs continuous operation, they have overlapping kinds of wear and tear.
Top of mind, you can expect 10k cycles from typical buttons and it’s hard to be less complex than a button. Because metal parts are subject to fatigue.
Flash based drives would certainly fail faster or slower depending on the number of write bytes over its life.
Then there’s erosion caused by electrons, which is my biggest suspect for the problems of last generation of Intel CPUs. You have to royally screw up to start selling something that overlooked this.
Yea I don’t think I’ll buy Intel again. My next CPU upgrade will likely be an AMD ryzen chip.
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Generally because you’re buying cheaper ones that aren’t built as well. Heat destroys LEDs and the cheap bulbs generally use fewer individual LEDs running at higher power to produce a given output in lumens. More expensive bulbs use more LEDs at lower power to achieve the same light output so that they’re not constantly being overdriven and last much longer.
What would you recommend?
Lighting a campfire
I just buy a cheap jumbo pack from Amazon. They’re like 15 bucks and last for years which is good enough for me.
I have dozens of Philips Hue bulbs 6-10 years old and I honestly don’t think one of them has died. I’m sure they have lost some luminance over time, but they still get the job done no problem. I rarely run them at 100% anyway.
But yeah I have also had some cheaper LED bulbs die within a few years.
Just fyi for anyone who would care about this: while hue bulbs are built well they are moving towards a model that requires you to put them on “the cloud”, even though they were sold for years and years without that requirement. The update will be mandatory whether you want it or not as part of Philips security being integrated into the app. It’s unclear what will happen if you don’t create an account and sign in at that point
So if you’re like me and put all your iot shit on an isolated vlan without internet access they may not be the best option for you. Or if you just don’t want to support a company that wildly changes the tos years after purchasing their (expensive) product. I don’t want my home shit on the internet, I don’t trust Philips to put enough cash or effort into securing their servers, etc.
The bulbs do work with zigbee though and that seems to be a viable alternative to using their hub/app although I haven’t tested it fully. This also means if you’re using them via HomeKit you’ll need some kind of bridge like home assistant
I added all my 10 year+ Hue bulbs to a zigbee stick about 4 years ago. I control them with Home assistant and Zigbee2mqtt. They were a bit flakey at first but after awhile now with updates they have been flawless. Best thing is you still get firmware updates through z2m. Highly recommend using Hue bulbs for their long term support and quality. I have had 1 bulb start flickering and Hue actually replaced it, free of charge.
That’s good to hear. I have a zigbee stick but haven’t found the time to repair them that way yet. I definitely agree they’re good products, it just left a real bad taste in my mouth when after years of using them I got a notification in the app that soon I’ll be required to put them online, which is nonsense
Can confirm
Phillips warm glow are my favorites after watching technology connections. They last, and they look just like incandescent bulbs as you dim them.
I have had the same light bulbs since 2012. One of them broke when I dropped it while moving. Otherwise, no issues at all. Philips brand that I bought a box of 12 of when I moved into an apartment that year. Maybe I’m just lucky, but still no issues.
Planned obsolescence
I fix my LED bulbs when they stop working
How so?
Just Google “how to increase my fire risk to save $2 on a new LED”. Should be a how to guide or two out there.
Some people like tinkering. Big Clive has a series of videos on Dubai led bulbs. The government mandates that the bulbs be extra efficient and last extra long, so they are built with more filaments driven at a lower current. They run cooler and last longer. You can do a similar thing with American bulbs if you’re handy with a soldering iron.
Honestly, with how poor many of these things are mass produced, opening them up yourself is practically a personal form of quality control. Whether you modify it or not I bet it’s less likely to die prematurely or burn your house down than those of a regular person who doesn’t open them 🤷♂️
No, shorting a dead LED in a series chain of 10-20 will NOT burn your house down, it’s barely a difference to the driving circuit. Unless you’re buying knockoffs, there is a fuse in the base that will blow at like 0.5 A, no matter what you do to the circuitry.
In many bulbs, you can adjust the value of a current-sensing resistor (usually one or two in parallel, about 2-30 Ω) to make your own “Dooby” lamp with lower power and way longer life. Of course, you need to know something about electronics.
I’ve had sets of LED under-cabinet lights powered on 24/7 for about 14 years. I think one bulb went bad, out of 12.
They are probably very low-power and don’t get hot, which would kill them faster.
What would you recommend?
Philips.
They don’t? What are you talking about?
Cheap ones do.
I have never had that happen and I buy my bulbs from the grocery store
I’ve had brand new ones that were duds before.
I have still to have a led light break. They just never do, I buy mine at aliexpress or IKEA or wherever.
Is Lemmy worse than Reddit to answer no stupid questions?
Yes Lemmy is just as dogshit, if not more than Reddit in terms of smug bullshit replies. I’ll be downvoted to oblivion by saying this so hopefully someone sees my comment before it goes to the bottom…
Typically it’s not the emitters – the LED’s themselves – that fail. If driven correctly, those have lifetimes of tens of thousands of hours. That’s what the manufacturer is advertising on the box. Yes, an individual LED when driven correctly will probably last 20,000 hours. (Usually more, depending on how pedantic you want to get. The 20,000 hour figure often quoted is the point where the emitter drops to 80% of its original light output.)
LED “bulbs,” the type that replace filament bulbs in consumer fixtures, typically fail in their driver hardware. LED’s run off of low voltage DC and in the base of all of those LED conversion bulbs is a power conversion assembly that steps down and rectifies 120v/240c AC to whatever DC voltage the LED array in there expects. These are inevitably made out of whatever the cheapest passives and semiconductor components the manufacturer thinks they can get away with. These don’t last 20,000 hours, especially not in where they’re usually installed.
The main killer for all semiconductor electronics, which includes both LED’s themselves and their driver circuitry, is heat. This is often exacerbated by the fact that LED replacement modules are usually stuck in enclosed light fixtures designed for filament bulbs that have insufficient ventilation to get rid of the waste heat from the components in an LED module. The insides of those enclosed ceiling light fixtures, the ubiquitous “boob light,” gets hot, even with only LED modules installed. Filament bulbs don’t care because they don’t have any electronics in them and how they work is literally by getting so hot the glow. But LED modules in that kind of environment will invariably suffer an early failure.
Excellent.
Also, the D stands for diode, which is a one-way passage for electricity, some rectifiers may use diodes in their circuitry. So another way to cut costs is to not rectify completely or well.
Case in point, cheap LED Christmas lights are often not rectified at all so they flicker at 50/60 Hz depending on your country’s electrical supply…
I freaking hate that flicker so much. I can always tell when someone has done a cheap aftermarket headlight conversion because I’ll see the flicker out of the corner of my eye and my rearview mirrors and it’s incredibly distracting.
Slightly different. The alternator on a car has a very variable frequency due to change in engine speed and it’s fed into the car’s regulator/rectifier, so the typical power supplied is stable. However, many cars will use the high beams at half-power to function as daytime running lights (DRLs). This is usually done by pulse width modulation (PWM) meaning it’s chopping up the power supplied at a nearly imperceptible speed. An incandescent bulb will have so much fade time that the choppy power will go unnoticed. From there, theses two possibilities that cause the bulb to flicker. Very cheap bulbs will show their choppy power supply directly by flickering, making them noticeable as the move across your vision. Some mid-range bulbs will have cheap smoothing circuits (since vehicle power is “dirty”) so there will be charge time and discharge time as the capacitors charge up and down, allowing and disallowing the emitter to light, creating a slower flash pattern. Higher end bulbs (ignoring the part where their beam pattern is still usually trash) should be able to accommodate the chopped power and run dimmer.
You may also notice a similar flicker on LED tail lights where the brake light is a brighter tail light instead of a dedicated element. Such cars will use PWM for dimming and may flicker as they move across your view as well. Some of my car’s dash uses LEDs for backlighting and dimming the dash is done via PWM. If I glance across the steering wheel from side to side, it looks like “cruise” gets stamped across the view
Only buy Philips (not the Hue stuff) or Osram
The rest are shite
Ikea’s are nice too
Osram literally means “I’ll shit on it” in polish, they are the definition of a shit brand
Millions of electricians would disagree, but I can’t speak for Polish sparkies
It’s a joke in Poland - what shines and actively threatens you? A lightbulb made by Osram
I’ve got several full color Hue bulbs that are the most used lights in my house. I haven’t had a single failure in a decade.
I was more than a little annoyed when they decided to stop supporting my original controller for them though.
+1 for philips.
The problem is most of what the big box hardware stores in the US are selling are junk brands. And they won’t even offer basics like a philips 75-watt-equivalent soft-white led in their stores.
The junk brand bulbs will fail in my kitchen light fixture after a year (they start flickering). The philips bulbs have never failed for me.
A properly designed and produced led bulb should last like 20 years.
My experience has been that they last for more years than I tend to notice which ones are which. I’m not mad at all about their longevity.
I had 2 LED bulbs that I know for sure that I bought prior to 2015 that only recently failed. Those bulbs lasted at least 9-10 years. The rest of my bulbs I haven’t kept up with but those 2 older ones looked very distinctive with aluminum heatsink material for their bottom halves.
What lasted forever for me…CFLs. downside is they just don’t seem to put out as much light. But I had some in my house 10+ years old. They lasted so long that when one finally burned out and I didn’t have a replacement of the intensity…I was pissed to learn they don’t even make them anymore. I’m not a fan of LEDs because some of the cheaper ones are like mini strobe lights and really big my eyes. I had to go through like $60 work of LEDs to find a set I actually liked
I’ve had the best experience with the Philips LED lights, and secondly, the GE lights. I’ve seen some here say IKEA as well are good. Others just are too cheaply made and fail quickly.
Are you sure you have the same set up for voltage and resistance? If you don’t you’ll pass more current and burn out faster. Similar to a laptop marketing saying 14hrs, but that’s only if you leave it on low power, airplane mode, and don’t do anything useful. I’m curious to see if someone comments the real answer.
I have a dozen that run 12+ hours a day. I’ve had 1 fail in 5 years.
Don’t buy cheap LEDs, and don’t put them in enclosures that trap heat.
Yep. When I moved into my house the previous owner had used all garbage Walmart LED’s. I think I had one fail each month and just bought a bunch on sale from Phillips eventually.
Most common failure was the driver. So they turned into strobe lights lol. Most annoying failure ever.
And more importantly, not every LED is dimmer compatible. Sometimes they’re super picky or just plain don’t work.
Can you recommend which ones to buy? I have the strobe light problem and it is indeed very annoying
Generally I don’t buy anything else other than Phillips. They’re usually bulletproof if you don’t get the smart bulbs. I’ve not had a Phillips fail in ~10 years. But that’s a sample size of like 30 or so bulbs.
Speaking from experience: LED drivers hate dirty power. If they burn out frequently, check the wiring for damage. I probably avoided a house fire.
Dirty power? Aww geez it’s been a few years since I last washed and waxed my power lines. Guess I gotta open up the walls again.
That’s a good point. LEDs dislike unstable power a LOT more than incandescent or fluorescent.
