Nato members have pledged their support for an “irreversible path” to future membership for Ukraine, as well as more aid.
While a formal timeline for it to join the military alliance was not agreed at a summit in Washington DC, the military alliance’s 32 members said they had “unwavering” support for Ukraine’s war effort.
Nato has also announced further integration with Ukraine’s military and members have committed €40bn ($43.3bn, £33.7bn) in aid in the next year, including F-16 fighter jets and air defence support.
The bloc’s Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said: “Support to Ukraine is not charity - it is in our own security interest.”
As an American I think that would all be reasonable…if the official US position was that Mexico has no right to exist, the Mexican people should be forcibly integrated into our society as 2nd class citizens, and the US Army was in the process of a “peacekeeping operation” in Mexico to carry all this out.
For all our flaws, we respect the borders of our neighbors and don’t have irridentist aspirations that belong in the 19th century. Russia is the aggressor here, and they have demonstrated that they have little interest in global peace or human rights, only increasing their sphere of influence.
Continually rolling over for thugs because it’s what avoids nuclear conflict will only lead to a global order based on thuggery, and it likely won’t even avoid nuclear conflict in the end.
I’m no fan of Russia … I’m just stating my opinion because I don’t want to die in a nuclear holocaust because everyone didn’t want to see reason.
There’s only one country in modern history that has spread global influence and threats in every part of the world, imposed, threatened, created and caused violence everywhere for decades while imposing their financial, political and economic powers on everyone everywhere for all of modern history …
… and it isn’t the Russians.
Ah indeed, the British empire has been quite bad. /s but not too much
Yeah, the Russians totally didn’t force other countries to adopt their economic system and extract their resources for their own gain.
Totally didn’t happen anywhere, especially not in Eastern Europe.
/s
Me as a Romanian: heh. Yup, no post WW2 puppet government extracted our resources, no sirree bob. Totally benevolent soviet occupational forces who bestowed flowers, kisses and rainbows upon the populace.
Same old script. “Ohh NATO forced us!!” “Aren’t you scared of nukes!?!?” “What about America!!?”
So you are willing to sacrifice Ukraine and its people so you can appeace a dictator for a short while and sleep soundly safe in your bed thousands of miles away … How noble your opinion is
Ah, There it is, the thing that you ultimately wanted to say but tried to be coy about.
“America bad”
And here I thought the topic at hand was Ukraine becoming a NATO member, not AmErIcAn ImPeRiAliSm
America bad is literally the reason why countries don’t want NATO on their border. You don’t get to ignore that key point and pretend OP was arguing in bad faith.
America invades countries to overthrow their government steal their natural resources. Lybia, Afghanistan, Iraq, even the Genocide in Gaza is made possible by NATO countries doing the weapons logistics.
What? None of that would have been different without NATO. Iraq did not even involve NATO at all
Oof https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_88247.htm
The participation in the invasion was also NATO participants. Same with the Genocide in Gaza right now where NATO countries are doing the military logistics to provide israel with bombs and tank shells to blow up Palestinian kids.
Either directly or indirectly NATO is just an extension of whatever imperialist escapades we go on. And the few times people actually need it it’s utterly worthless such as Srebrenica and NATO just lets a Genocide happen without doing anything.
You can have independent operations by members states. If a couple of my cousins and myself go and murder someone that doesnt mean it was done by my clan. It just means some people in my clan are murderers, most alliance networks allow independent operations and actions seperate from the alliance.
The NATO site is literally bragging about it.
And yeah it just so happen people in the NATO allience all just keep invading countries together under false pretenses and lies of national security.
One experience is experience youre gonna brag about having it. Two most of the alliance didnt participate, the only members who did were the US, Uk, and Poland for some reason. Thats only two of the founding memebers and three members total, Australia was also there. It was a massive operation done by pretty important nations Poland is the most important NATO member in the east of Europe, the US just is the most important member, and Britain is also pretty fucken important.
But all four of the countries involved have independent alliances with eachother seperate from NATO, yes their offensive capabilities are helped by NATO but that is only on the experience and equipment level. If NATO was actually directly involved id expect France and Germany to have been involved for example.
Well, so far the only country really throwing a shit fit about having NATO on their border is Russia, probably because NATO membership gets in the way of his neo-USSR expansion plans. Don’t use a plural where it doesn’t belong.
I recall Afghanistan having a NATO problem within their borders. And Lybia. And Iraq. And many other countries.
Despite all the marketing NATO is not a defensive alliance. It is an offensive one in actions.
I also recall Afghanistan having a Russia problem inside their borders. A very large Russia problem that Russia lost. Also NATO didnt even start that, the US did, and was the primary driver of all Afghanistan actions, and then drug some part of NATO into it (which is a separate problem) after the fact. Your point?
And you forgot about the NATO problem very convenient. Doesn’t fit your narrative.
The US Afganistan invasion was supplied through Pakistan, and to a lesser extent, the old Russian lines that Russia used in its own invasion. Georgia was also an intermediary to a lesser degree.
None of these are NATO members.
And yet Russia has multiple borders with NATO countries. “Your opinion” is parroting kremlin propaganda about “the nuclear end” that “will totally happen you guys” and can be summarized by “let’s give Russia everything they want, because they have nukes so they can now rule everyone”
I really don’t care enough about Russia to defend their actions any further but if you look on a map you see Ukraine does not just encircle Russia but actually sticks inwards quite a bit.
And Russia did start getting more imperialist the closer NATO came.
Ah yes the closer NATO came, since before they had east Germany, Poland and other countries.
Dude. Think about what you are saying or read up more. You are repeating russian propaganda and nothing else. This is a land grab invasion. NATO doesn’t have shit to do with it otherwise Russia wouldn’t grab all their troops on NATO borders and move them to Ukraine. They know NATO isn’t an offensive alliance and are using that, then telling people like you bullshit about NATO encroachment, novorossia or other idiotic ramblings.
I don’t care enough about Russia to debate this here’s some background info debunking your claims. https://youtu.be/Ml4nqkHImjo?t=59s
Dude, you aren’t some barely interested dude that “doesn’t care about Russia”. People have memories and can remember your posts you know. This isn’t new for you spreading pro-Russia bullshit, you do it all the time and get downvoted to hell for it. Stop hiding behind “oh I don’t really care, buuuuut”, you aren’t fooling me.
“I don’t care about russia”, but spends 10 comments in a row defending Russia and saying “um ackshyually nato made them do it 🤓☝️”
Sorry, but as Eastern European, we begged for NATO membership because of constant (>200 years) Russian occupation hazard. We only care about America as a strong ally (of many) in the NATO group, there is no imperialism, direct, indirect, effective or otherwise interprettable. It’s a purely defensive pact with all its tenets clearly and publicly laid out.
We could not fight back alone and we wouldnt be able to, because just as to Ukraine and as to Nazis, the amount of meat Russia (yes the whole country, not just Putin) is willing to throw into the meatgrinder is incomprehensible.
Also, these sorts don’t seem to realize that NATO is on Russia’s border regardless of Ukraine’s status. Even before Russia invaded and Finland joined NATO.
They’ve never looked at a fucking map.
I mean… When they’re claiming russia applied to NATO and was rejected… What did you expect, a sound and reasonable mind? They’re literally just repeating their propaganda, nothing more.
Oh I know, but I’ve heard that particular lie about Russia not wanting NATO on their border being behind the invasion way too many times. NATO has literally been bordering Russia since its inception.
Yeah, fair. That’s the easiest, most obvious piece of propaganda to debunk ever. And they swallow it like it’s putin’s cum. Oh well… I hope they at least enjoy the taste.
Also with modern power projection…we don’t have to be on your border…
Because countries wanted to join the defensive pact…this isn’t even hard…
Russia might still have invaded without NATO provocation. However while Russia is evil, they do have a very valid point in not wanting NATO next to their border.
Especially since Russia’s NATO application got rejected.
Ukraine not joining NATO
Russia invade Ukraine
NATO now very open to Ukraine joining due to a Russian threat.
See how Russia is causing the NATO membership? Not preventing it.
To me it feels like Russia saying they’re invading due to NATO is just a smokescreen for something else, and a way to get support from their population.
And as it’s caused the NATO membership, Russians can now say “see! We told you so! They are joining just like we said!”, ignoring that they’ve directly caused this outcome.
I wonder if the main reason for this is just to try and better secure the black sea for some reason.
Russia didn’t just cause NATO membership for Ukraine, they’re the reason NATO was formed in the first place.
People should learn about WWII and the roots of these problems. Spend some time with the atrocities coming out of the USSR as they butchered and raped their way through peaceful countries in Europe.
https://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/2022/2/pdf/220214-factsheet_NATO-Ukraine_Relations_.pdf
Also relevant is Zelensky staging a coup in Ukraine in 2014 to overthrow the Russian puppet regime that was in place at that time. Meaning Russia lost control over Ukraine politically.
Right. And if I say that I’m changing my diet to fit with my neighbours, that doesn’t make me part of neighbour’s family.
I get what you’re saying, they were aligning themselves to become NATO members. That’s not the same as what’s happening now though where NATO are saying “yes we want them in”, which is an outcome Russia has caused by this invasion.
Edit- just another note…both of these occurred since Russia annexed Crimea, which could definitely be construed as aggressive behaviour on Russia’s part. Again pointing towards Russia causing an outcome they’re claiming to have a problem with.
Whoa! This is the first post I’ve EVER SEEN from Linkerbaan that didn’t contain 73 instances of “genocide Joe…!” You’ve expanded your propaganda horizons! Look who’s becoming a big boy!
NATO is an arm of American imperialism so it’s relevant to the article and conversation at hand.
So if the US gets out of Nato like Trump promised, what then? It magically disolves because there are no sovereign countries in there? Or is it still an arm of american imperialism and all ze eviilz in the world?
It would definitely weaken a ton although I doubt it would immediately dissolve, although its power is heavily based on our leadership and military and anyone who doesn’t see that is pretty naive. Hopefully Europe would help Ukraine enough to make up for us having Trump and probably not helping them anymore, though.
Probably not helping them? You mean against a trump US joining the Russians. The dude really wants us on the evil side of WW3.
He could remove aid but I doubt he could convince Congress and the American people to help Russia. Plus, his whole pro-Russia thing with respect to the war has been posed as an isolation thing. Maybe I’m wrong, though. He’s not afraid to be a hypocrite. A Trump candidacy is depressing and I’ve been trying not to dwell on the possibility of it tbh.
That wasn’t my question.
It wasn’t a good question nor was it asked in good faith. I answered what I could with some context. It’s like asking if we know the world would have no wars after we got rid of the Nazis and all the evil in the world would disappear. Well, no, obviously not, but that it doesn’t mean it wouldn’t improve things.
It was a regular question that doesn’t fit within your narrow view of “US bad everybody evil because puppets of US”
I thought lemmy.ca didn’t have any shitheads, guess I was wrong
All the shitheads have been spreading out to alt accounts because their home instances keep getting silenced.
Not very many, thankfully.
“I’m not a fan of Russia, i just unironically spout Russian propaganda.”
I kinda wish the US, Mexico, and Canada were more unified though. I know we are cool, ish, but the American Union (Canadians super love it when you call them North Americans) or something less USA sounding would be kinda great.
Of the 3, the US holds far more geopolitical power. Hence the naming bias.