Eating out is already so expensive, every menu item is like at least $17 dollars nowadays (live in the city).
I’d rather give money to a homeless guy. The psychological warfare and the bullshit socioeconomic arguments for tipping are unconvincing for me. Leave me alone. Thank you.
It used to be simple. You set the price, we pay it for services and food. Now there’s a social expectation to give more? Fuck off. Fuck right off, don’t give me bullshit like “oh they don’t make a profit” well that’s their fucking problem. I paid, I paid no less than what was necessary, I shouldn’t feel bad about myself.
Sorry about the rant. I love eating out. But I hate feeling like a tightwad asshole for not tipping. Don’t get me wrong, I mostly tip like 99% of the time. I just didn’t tip today. The food took a long time to come out, they didn’t give us hot sauce, I had to go to the front to pay instead of the server handing me the bill.
I hate this, I hate what the tipping economy has become. It should’ve been simple.
just don’t eat in full service restaurants wtf
go to a counter service place and tip 0 there if you want to pay less
I don’t eat out alone, precisely due to the toxic tipping culture.
Any more suggestions?
Yeah stop eating out all together if your principles are so strong
where did I mention principles here? I didn’t tell you all not to tip? On the contrary, I tip the majority of the time. I was just venting about my experience of internal social shame for not tipping, venting my internal conflict. I shared no principles. I ain’t jesus bro gtfo
Not how it sounds from your defenses, maybe vent in a less public way next time, you’re not helping your case here. Everyone gets that tipping sucks, especially the people that depend on it, you aren’t breaking any new ground.
And as a former server and bartender you can absolutely get fucked either way
Well fuck you too
You don’t hurt the people who’ve made tipping a necessity by not tipping. You only hurt the worker. The worker is blamed for not being good enough for the basic amount of money to survive.
If you want to kill tipping, stop funding the scum who make it needed. Stop eating out. If you must eat out, you accept that doing so has a greater cost than making your own food. Don’t hurt workers while funding, and rewarding, those who exploit them.
This also hurts the worker…
The better option is don’t tip, force restaurants to pay more or lose employees.
This does not force them to pay more. They will simply not pay the employee a greater wage. The employer loses nothing by the employee getting less money here. They only lose if they pay more.
If everyone just stopped tipping all that would happen is that the workers now have a lower pay. The employers have lost no money, and have no reason to change anything.
Yes, not paying the fast food joint at all does hurt the worker, but if you’re already ok with doing that why not hurt the employer? They’ll lose money by not paying a reasonable price this way. Unlike with not tipping where nothing is lost.
Your method hurts only the worker. My method hurts the buisness as well. Only one gives the buisness a reason to change. The buisness does not care about the living situation of an employee
If everyone just stopped tipping all that would happen is that the workers now have a lower pay. The employers have lost no money, and have no reason to change anything.
No, a portion of the workers are going to say “I can make more at -insert literally any other job here-” and they are going to leave. Then the business has to either fix the problem or shut down. These service industry workers aren’t beholden to their employers, when the pay stops being decent, they’ll dip.
Leave to where? What other job? We’re in a job deficit and non fast food places can only hold so many. Currently, when a fast food joint loses workers, they just pile the new work on employees who can’t just leave.
This idea of “just leave 5-head lol :P” is rather short sighted. They need to eat, they need to pay rent, they can’t just leave.
Why haven’t they left already with already abysmal wages even including tips? We have a shortage of jobs right now If they all left, or a large enough portion left, then they’ll need new jobs. No other industry has those jobs available currently. They’d lose wages, and have to go back.
Again, not tipping only hurts the worker, not the employer. Even in your situation the end goal is to hurt the employee so much they leave. Why not hurt the employer instead of only the employee? The only benefit is not paying that 10-15% on your mushroom parmesean chickenburger meal with deluxe fries.
If the end goal is the same, less workers in the industry which hurts the employer forcing better conditions, you not tipping does little to help while only hurting the employee
All you accomplish is a cheaper price on your luxary meal. A discount taken solely from the worker with no negative to the employer save for this idea that one day, the employee will walk out to another job that treats them better. A job that, sadly, does not exist
Leave to where? What other job?
To the same place they would go if everyone collectively boycotted that business like you are calling for. When there’s no customers, the businesses aren’t just going to keep paying them. They’ll end up getting fired or hours cut until they starve or leave. What’s the difference?
Edit: I’d like to thank you for the kind conversation none-the-less. Even if we disagree, you seem like a chill person
Right, but other businesses will have gotten the money you would have spent, thus the greater capacity. They will have more business and require more workers.
Even if they didn’t have this capacity or didn’t increase it, the difference is clear. In both situations the worker is hurt, but in one the employer is hurt too. Why only hurt the employee? Why continue to support the employer by giving them the same amount of money if your objection is moral?
If you’re still going to support the system, the only benefit to not tipping is a discount taken only from the employee, not the employer.
Lastly, I call for nothing like that. What I’ve been saying is clear. If you’re going to support fast food, you should be tipping. No moral consumption and all that, I understand we can’t be perfect and support every cause, but my argument is that one should still tip to use this luxery good. Not tipping only hurts the worker. If you don’t tip though, you should understand what you’re doing.
If you’re reason for not tipping is moral objection to the system, you shouldn’t think you’re doing good by not tipping or that you’re not supporting the system of tipping. You are, the employer who has caused this system to exist is not hurt, you’re just taking money from a worker. That’s all.
Lastly boycotts rarely work. If we want this to change the best way is through local politics. Get involved, get informed, get things changed. Why do you think all the politicians are dissociative weirdos who do no good for the populace? They have to get a start somewhere, replace them.
You should still tip though, or minimize/cut out entirely your fast food consumption.
Tipping itself isn’t problematic, but when you structure an industry that expects customers to tip, literally have infrastructure like point of sale devices that have a tipping window, there’s a problem. And the problem is that the capitalists are putting the pressure on the customer to pay the servers a living wage, which also create a more volatile environment for the worker and harms them when chances are people don’t tip. There’s also problems like, where does your tip actually go, does your tip get shared with the entire staff or go directly to your server, does the establishment get a cut off your tip? Because it varies restaurant-by-restaurant. For all I know Im literally just giving the establishment free money.
Aside from those considerations, in a sense, you’re right. People not tipping will harm workers in the short term. But also, the bigger issue here is the infrastructure around tipping, and the societal expectations for people to tip, which allows capitalist to justify low wages
So, in a way, we have two options going forward:
-
Preserve the status quo, don’t eat out without tipping.
-
Smash the status quo, collectively do not tip. This harms the worker in the short term, but we can hope that they either find something better due to lower wages or force their bosses to increase their wages
I’m not saying 2 is a good solution. I personally advocate for (1) before someone can figure out a way to get us out of this mess without harming the worker.
Here in the USA, as we usually do, we dug ourselves into a hole.
-
Really the only thing we disagree on is that not tipping does/doesn’t hurt the business. I’m with you on everything else.
I really don’t have a dog in the fight tho. I don’t work in food service nor do I participate much in the dine-in restaurant portion of it. I can count the number of times I’ve sat down and ate at a restaurant in the last 4 years on one hand. I’m also a hypocrite, I over tip for takeout/delivery and perpetuate the problem.
But I do believe if people collectively ditched tipping, the problem would sort itself out. Not that it wouldn’t be painful for the workers. And not that there aren’t better options (I’m 110% for minimum wage to be the same across the board).
Stop eating out.
I am embarrassed to say I’ve never come to this conclusion myself. But you’re right. It’s as simple as that. Especially since you can get a load of convenience products in a supermarket for $17.
I do. I really do. I don’t eat out alone because I hate tipping culture. My girlfriend wanted to go on a date and I wanted to pay for both of us.
I tip when I’m in a group of friends and we can each pay a a percent of a tip. But yeah, you’re fucking right I don’t eat out. Congratulations you got me there.
For the price of a burger meal, you can make a full meal with on sale bits that are 1000% better too. I’ve seen steaks at $7 for a small serving from a grocery chain. Grab that, some frozen veggies, and a bag of potatoes. You can go a long way on the price of a fast food meal nowadays.
A package of skin on chicken thighs doesn’t even need an oil, just throw the skins in the pan. Large bags of rice keep nicely in 5 gal buckets.
Wow, what a great argument!
Just don’t eat out, with no customers around the money to pay these poor workers’ salaries will certainly appear out of thin air.
Don’t blame the OP for doing what most of the civilized world outside of USA does, which is paying the exact amount on the receipt.
If you participate in the system without paying the too you only hurt the employee.
They’re not just acting like the rest of the world, the rest of the world has better wage laws. They have a different system.
Yes, not participating in the system will hurt the same employees, as not tipping does, but not buying fast food also hurts the employers. Unlike buying without tipping which, again, only hurts the workers.
Once more, if you don’t agree with tipping, not tipping won’t do anything to the system. The only way forward is to not participate. If you think non participation will do nothing, why harm the worker?
This is alot of moralizing to justify a selfish behavior. Just be honest, you don’t care what what happens to the worker as long as you can get your luxary of fast food slightly cheaper
Thank you for succinctly summing up this whole argument, tipping sucks but in industries like hospitality in the United States if you take the service and don’t tip you are in fact hurting people because of your selfishness. Restaurant owners and groups do not give a single fuck if you eat there and don’t tip, they will find replacements for those who leave. Most servers are working two or more jobs to make ends meet unless they work in really nice restaurants with bougie regulars.
If you want to boycott the culture stop eating out, otherwise you’re just a cheap asshole that thinks they are better than restaurant staff
Maybe the hospitality services relies on absolute sheep like you and everyone else to believe that not tipping is selfish and hurting their workers so they, the actual people that are hurting their workers by not giving them a living wage, gets a free pass and can justify not giving them a living wage because they live off of tips?
Such a great ally you are
Edit: I’m blocking your ass because you are the pinnacle of fake ass leftism, you talk a big game but you don’t actually give a fuck about others in any meaningful capacity. You’re a joke
If you want a good meal but don’t want to cook too much or don’t want to use things like ‘Hello Fresh’, you can oftentimes find meal kits with every ingredient pre-packaged in a lot of supermarkets. That way you can get restaurant like food without supporting the industry
That’s a very good point. Supermarkets also tend to have full meals served hot or stuff you can nuke for a decent price no tipping needed.
Workers are now paid 20+ bucks an hour for fast food and the machine still ask for a tip. Yeah, I’m not made of money and we obviously need jobs. I have drastically cut down dining out but new minimum wage laws which are good has thrown tipping culture into chaos. You don’t know when to tip and when not to tip and what someone gets paid and what they don’t get paid. It sucks. Everyone should just be paid a living wage so we can call it a day on tipping.
Atleast around where I live, this is not the case. Fast food joints often commit wage theft, and minimum wage isn’t near $20+. The highest is just under 17 with most being under 15.
Again, people also tend not to get paid for opening/closing over time certain types of work. Also, sometimes their paycheck is just lower than agreed. It’s common
We get news anchors, papers, journalists, and social media figures fear mongering about sky high minimum wages which convinces people progress is being made quick. It is not. You are not immune to propaganda so I understand why you’d think this but, broadly, this is not the case
Fast food joints often commit wage theft
Yeah, I feel a lot happier tipping if I can tip cash. Even better if I can hand it directly to someone.
Workers are now paid 20+ bucks an hour for fast food
In California, maybe. Everywhere else wages aren’t even near that much for fast food. Fast food establishments aren’t even really part of the tipping discussion, which may be why California raised the minimum wage only for fast food workers. Having worked those jobs before, I can say that no one there expects a tip and likewise, tips are uncommon. Restaurant workers still have the same minimum wage as before, though. For fast food, don’t worry about tipping. If you want to go to a sit-down place, though, don’t go if you aren’t prepared to tip. It’s not like you can’t figure out approximately what the tip would be before you go. Don’t forget that federal law says food service workers only have to get paid $2.13 an hour of actual wages as long as tips can make up the difference to the national minimum wage of $7.25. It makes a lot of people unhappy when they have to tip, but that’s how it is and they knew it before they went out to eat. If you don’t like it, don’t reward those businesses with your patronage in the first place. Not tipping only results in your wait staff getting stiffed, the boss doesn’t care whether you tip or not.
I mean just get it to go
Tipping sucks but its not your servers fault. Shame on you Mr. Pink.
Fuck you
Nah dude, you’re the one with the problem.
Tipping depends on service. Good service? tip accordingly, bad? little or no tip. Anything other than that it’s your own mental fight.
Nah dude, tipping is a societal expectation in america.
I have a very simple rule.
If I am seated, I will tip. Bartender, barista, restaurant, doesn’t matter. If I’m walking up and standing around and serving myself, you can shove that iPad up your ass.
Yea, the solicitation for tips when all you did was prepare the food (the bare minimum) while I served myself or just got carryout, that is ridiculous. The only times I have tipped for carryout was during covid because, frankly, just being open was above and beyond service at the time, and I wanted to show extra support to struggling businesses I cared about. Otherwise, tips are the compensation for either the convenience of being served by someone else, the inconvenience to the business of an unusual order (like a huge order, allergy care, etc), or if you are just doing more than I could reasonably expect for regular service (like being open during covid shut downs).
Oh so now i’m depriving my server, a waiter who agreed to be paid hourly, above the legal minimum wage because we’re in California and tips aren’t deducted from his wage, his fair wage by not tipping? Me, a consumer in the restaurant, needs to directly subsidize his wage?
Why?
No what you are doing is being a poor comrade to your fellow worker, you’re out here posting in explicitly anarchist and socialist communities and you are getting pissy about other people being exploited? Tipping culture is absolutely shitty but if you go out to eat and don’t tip you’re just enabling the exploitation of restaurant staff. If you don’t want to tip at a restaurant don’t eat out, it’s that simple.
I can agree with you in retail or fast food establishments, because that was newly introduced and not how those workers have historically earned their pay, but if you go to a table service restaurant then not tipping is directly hurting other workers like yourself.
Oh so tipping was an anarchist and socialist thing? I didn’t get the memo, given countries that lean socialist don’t have the same intense societal pressure to tip
Also, i don’t get the “if you don’t want to tip don’t eat out argument” because you’re avoiding the problem that is toxic tipping culture. People should tip and give extra because they want to, not because society and their servers expects them to. And also, I don’t eat out alone precisely because I don’t want to endure the societal expectations and pressure to tip, but that’s not a healthy thing is it? I should be able to just eat out alone, tip when I want to or not.
I’m thinking of tipping more as a psychological and societal phenomenon rather than an economic thing. I actually tip the majority of the time (when i’m in a group, with my friends, with my weed cashier). Let’s leave out the economics and think about this from a social and psychological level, which capitalists use to leverage and justify not paying their servers well.
I’m actually fucking losing it
In California, you shouldn’t feel obligated to tip (or at least not nearly as much as elsewhere) because they aren’t paying an artificial deflated wage. In other states though where they’re making a fraction of the hourly minimum wage, I would argue that you should feel obligated to tip. More states should do what California is doing though.
I’m from a country where you can tip if you feel like it, I’m living in a country where you don’t tip, because employees are paid.
But when I was in the US, I understood how hard can it be to feel ok while not overpaying (because tipping is overpaying in many cases). I went to a concert, and there was a lady managing the automated wardrobe system. Leaving a jacket was $5, and on top of that you were offered to leave 10-20-40% tips. For what?
I entered “0”, the lady was looking at that, and she told me “THANK YOU, SIR!” in a very passive-agressive manner, so I felt like shit. But really, all I wanted is to hang my coat.the rich want you to pay their employees wages
fuck tips
And you’re comrades want to eat, fuck off
Sorry if i’m a bit grumpy guys. It’s been a day
On the flipside, you’re also punishing working people who typically are paid crummily
The national minimum wage for tipped workers is $2.13/hour but, by law, restaurants must pay servers an hourly wage of at least $7.25/hour. That means if you don’t earn enough tips to average $7.25/hour during a pay period, the restaurant must increase your hourly wage accordingly. - Source
We shouldn’t have to subsidize their crummy wages, but that’s a political change we have to push for - not giving someone a tip now hurts them now.
On the other other flipside, businesses have been trying to be scummy with tips.
My mantra is push for living wages where people don’t need tips, and tip people in person, not a machine.
OP has said they live in California, where there is no exemption to the minimum wage for tipped workers
Shit. The prompts I see are 20%, 22%, 25%, and 30%.
If it is takeout from a sit down restaurant, I tip 10%. If it is a sit down restaurant, I tip 20%. If it is an owner-operator small business, I tip 20%.
I only tip if the person I am tipping went above and beyond what was required. I don’t eat at most restaurants (especially corporate owned chains), because they do not pay their employees a decent wage and going to such a restaurant and not tipping does not hurt the business. It only hurts the server. But restaurants aren’t the only places where a service person can go above and beyond what is required of them to deserve a tip.
And if your place of work has a policy against accepting tips: Fuck them, just keep it on the DL. They sure as fuck ain’t gonna reward you with anything but a pizza party if you go above and beyond your duties.
