Less than 10 seconds after officers opened the door, police shot Yong Yang in his parents’ Koreatown home while he was holding a knife during a bipolar episode.
Parents in Los Angeles’ Koreatown called for mental health help in the middle of their son’s bipolar episode this month. Clinical personnel showed up — and so did police shortly after.
Police fatally shot Yong Yang, 40, who had a knife in his hand, less than 10 seconds after officers opened the door to his parents’ apartment where he had locked himself in, newly released bodycam video shows.
Now the parents of Yang, who was diagnosed with bipolar disorder around 15 years ago, have told NBC News exclusively that they are disputing part of the account captured on bodycam, in which police recount a clinician’s saying Yang was violent before the shooting on May 2.
what the fuck
I feel like I’m reading this same story once a month. There are so many people that need help and then the police show up and murder them. All the time.
That’s not entirely true.
Sometimes they just shoot the family dog(s) for barking and go back to work like nothing happened.
There are countless stories of people cradling their dogs as they bleed out from bullet wounds weeping as the cops write up a ticket or something. Just constantly, all the time, and for some reason we don’t DO anything about it. Like, as a group, we could end this nightmare tomorrow if we could all cooperate for one goddamn day without horrible shitty people trying to politicize and subvert every community action we try to do to make the world a little better.
This is one of my biggest (hopefully irrational) fears. My dog is not violent but she is reactive, there’s no way she wouldn’t be shot dead if police ever had occasion to come into our house.
So damn true on all points. And yeah we could do so much if we could organize but trying to get Americans off their ass just once to stand up for something is damn near impossible. I wish I was in France. Those mofo’s start a riot the moment the government does anything even remotely stupid.
This keeps happening and it is infuriating. It’s also scary for people with SMI/SEMI (severe and enduring mental illnesses) such as schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, as if the fear of the illness itself wasn’t enough.
I honestly don’t know what the hell you’re supposed to do in America if a loved one has a psychotic episode and threatens you, because calling the cops for help could be a death sentence for them, but not getting help could be a death sentence for you. Maybe make some sort of plan with neighbors in case something happens? But then you get the neighbors all worried that they’re living next to someone who could get dangerously psychotic. I’m not talking about what should be done if things were more ideal, I’m talking about what people with such loved ones should do if it happens today, May 22, 2024. Because it sounds like someone has a good chance of dying no matter what.
You just have to fucking deal with it yourself basically, our social safety net is a bad joke. If you’re a minority, neurodivergent, queer, or anything else they decide they don’t like, you have a much hire likelihood of literally being murdered by the people who are supposed to help and protect society.
Also better not have a dog, cause they’ll kill Fido too.
Why we give such fearful brittle creatures firearms is beyond me.
Power and control. To protect and serve the ruling class interests.
Police protect and serve capital and capital only.
It sounds like what it is, Flying. Not a tasty pill to swallow but these are the dues of the division modern society has allowed.
No more Village raising the children. No more respected elders, trusted craft people, or neighborly bonds.
For the illusion of connection and its subsequent gamification and for the enrichment of those who say what we want to hear, these are the dues to be paid.
We live and die alone, bemoaning a loss of bonds that could be mended at any time; let he who is lonely lay their cynicism down first.
No, I don’t believe it’s that easy (and recognize the risks of being first) but it probably is that simple. No clue how the message is amplified back through time in a manner that gets enough likes though.
Such an insightful comment. /Gen
Sometimes, others share their opinions and lived-in experience not to give you insight, but because to speak is to human. Sonder on that, whatever your generation.
I am aware the oldest writing is of a merchant swindling. I am aware of the atrocities respected elders have carried out against the Village children, all villages.
I am not here to insight you; use your own faculties for that.
I was being genuine. That’s what “/gen” means.
I am genuinely sorry I was genuinely a reactionary idiot earlier, but thank you for teaching me a new one!
I am aware the oldest writing is of a merchant swindling.
You are an arrogant fool. Blah blah blah. BTW the oldest written text is probably the Code of Ur-Nammu. It’s not the Complaint tablet to Ea-nāṣir, as I assume you’re comment referred to.
Some places have mobile response teams for mental health issues. Florida has a few programs being piloted right now. They have direct numbers. So, the police are not necessarily involved in reported events.
And that’s great, but mentally ill people are everywhere, not just in the places in Florida with pilot programs. There are many ideas with how to deal with this problem in the future. Meanwhile, cops are killing mentally ill people today.
I’m not disagreeing. My comment was solution focused. Some areas have teams set up to help. Not everyone knows about them or even to look for them. So, I was providing information that might lead people to look around for programs that might help.
I mean if you need help, you can always ask a neighbour for help. Would be useful if everyone had a mancatcher pole as well, as messed up as the implications of everyone in society having a mancatcher is.
I can’t speak for anyone else, and I am not in this situation myself, thankfully, but I wouldn’t know my neighbors well enough to ask them, sad as that is.
I’m in no better spot, but this is the crux of the problem, isn’t it - too many of us don’t have a strongly-enough bound local community to get assistance with stuff like this without involving the cops.
We’ve had to ride a number out. I have PTSD from childhood abuse that flared up over COVID and PTSD from previous encounters with the police (I was tased and arrested during a welfare check). Thankfully my gf is good at holding space but it was still very stressful for both of us. And there were a number of times I would have gone to the hospital if I had any faith in the system.
You’ve got to get really fucking friendly with the cops and you’ve just gotta hope. You want to take your child to the local precinct office and introduce them and their disability to officers in a calm setting and discuss how to deesclate situations… especially if you can talk clearly on certain trigger scenarios and double especially if your child can voice these things himself. Then you’ve got to hope they create a file on your child and hope they fucking remember this shit if your child goes off.
Written by the step parent to a child with bipolar disorder and autism - though we’re in Canada things are extremely similar wrt policing culture up here.
You want to take your child to the local precinct office and introduce them and their disability to officers in a calm setting
This might work in a smaller town, but this family was in LA. I’ve never lived there, but I have lived in NYC and I doubt anyone in the precinct would care. They would just file some paperwork and move on to the next thing. There’s probably less than a 50/50 shot that the paperwork would be communicated to any officer in a crisis. And back when I lived there in the stone age, that chance would have been zero.
Maybe if your precinct does community policing, it would be beneficial to introduce yourself to any officers you know are local, but that assignment can change on a whim.
Big cities are composed of smaller divisions covered by local precincts - there’s still luck involved here but you’re really misunderstanding how policing works.
Honestly, everyone sucks in this situation…
- The parents pretty much ignored the warning signs of his illness, schizophrenia and bi-polarism, for far too long. It was revealed in the body cam footage that this incident actually started the night prior when their son showed up and forced his parents out of the apartment, probably being violent to them as well, and they had to sleep in their car.
I’ve seen this numerous times where the parents or family members know at heart the person needs to be committed, but for various reasons mostly due to finances or not wanting to stifle their freedom, they prolong the decision until its practically too late… and here’s how you know:
- The parents slept in their car over night hoping his “episode” would end and when it didn’t they were forced to escalate and called an out-patient mental health facility to get him to a hospital; if they were handling his care properly, he wouldn’t have been out. This reeks of them doing this “wait it out…” before and it worked, but not this time…
Out-patient mental health or rehabilitation nurses, etc are not equipped to handle a violent patient. In fact, their training is as was shown in the bodycam footage. The second a patient becomes violent or too much to handle, they are trained to call the police.
From a morbid perspective, Police at least have a union and pension clauses that help take care of their families if they die in the line of duty, but home nurses, hospice care workers, rehab nurses, mental rehab nurses, etc do not (besides the possible work life insurance)
- The only area where I think the father and out-patient made things worse was they weren’t able to properly communicate the level of violence to prepare the cops. They were asked multiple times if he had a weapon, if the apartment had weapons, if he had threatened anyone, etc and the answers were all “no, but sorta” vague like.
They were almost too afraid to admit how violent or a threat the individual was because they didn’t want him to be injured… but at this point its too late.
Yes, and finally… it was too late without someone getting hurt. The individual was barricaded in an apartment, had a knife, and was mentally unstable. The cops asked peacefully several times for him to come out, but he wouldn’t; there’s no world where this ended in someone not getting hurt.
- I think the police actually screwed up the most when they attempted to enter without the Ambulance being on-site. They had a ‘contained’ situation, the individual wasn’t going anywhere and didn’t want to leave, so let him be until the ambulance shows up. They said multiple times they would wait for RA, but in the end… they didn’t.
Everyone sucked… except Yong Yang
I’d try to be understanding with the parents, but I admit family waiting too long is a problem. I remember watching this video and getting frustrated at every missed opportunity…
I mean, every criticism you level at the parents sounds like people worried that if they call police its going to go badly.
I have a severely autistic son. There is literally no circumstance where I would call the police for any event involving him. Unless there is a dead body on the floor, they are not getting a call.
I’m in a weird dichotomy where I need to be sure he knows to trust police in case somehow he’s alone and needs help one day, while at the same time realizing that if he gets to that point he’s probably fucked, and praying there is never, ever a time where he interacts with police without my wife or I between him and them. I can’t say “look for a fireman” or “look for an ambulance” because there isn’t always one of them around. But you never have to wait too long to see a cop.
Hopefully if that ever happens, he’ll stumble across one of the less trigger-happy ones.
I have a severely autistic son. There is literally no circumstance where I would call the police for any event involving him. Unless there is a dead body on the floor, they are not getting a call.
Here’s a hypothetical for you, if your son had an episode and took someone hostage with a knife, you wouldn’t call the police?
I will always advocate that a big area where police could improve their standing with the communities they serve is to always strive toward better, non-lethal handling of situations where the circumstances are appropriate; however, handling individuals with behavioral / mental disabilities isn’t simple…
Getting back to the hypothetical, you don’t you think you have a duty to protect that hostage’s life at all costs? You wouldn’t call the police until that hostage was dead on the floor?
Hypothetically, for your sake, your son’s, and that hostage… I hope you aren’t serious or would reconsider…
I will always advocate that a big area where police could improve their standing with the communities they serve is to always strive toward better, non-lethal handling of situations where the circumstances are appropriate; however, handling individuals with behavioral / mental disabilities isn’t simple…
Nearly every single time I have seen someone make this particular excuse for police, a nurse or other staff from a healthcare facility will crop up to point out that they do it all day every day without having to kill people.
First of all, I’m not advocating for the police.
I clearly stated in my first post that the police did not handle the situation correctly because they did use lethal force and they did not wait for the ambulance when they said multiple times they would.
What I’m stating is that everyone involved had a part in passing the buck of responsibility to the next party until ultimately the end result was almost assuredly going to be bodily harm to Yong Yang.
What I’m stating is that everyone involved had a part in passing the buck of responsibility to the next party until ultimately the end result was almost assuredly going to be bodily harm to Yong Yang.
Fair, but I go back to my original comment. Possibly the parents would have behaved differently if they had any faith the police would have. As it turns out, the police didn’t, they did what every parent of a special needs child fears.
true, but in inpatient settings they have tools at their disposal and a context supporting safety that you lack. they have - locked doors, lots of people who can be summoned, people trained to restrain, injectable medication. probably other stuff i’m not thinking about. there’s likely also an increased understanding of that person’s issues, level of risk, and current medication and sobriety. even several hours of observation plus a secure environment gives staffers an advantage police lack.
so i work in mental health. it is very likely that i will have to call police on a client at some point. i have training that works well in some circumstances, but there are limits. i have, in fact, been one of the people here on lemmy that has pointed out people working with others with mental illness and disability manage things without guns.
i think police need training to work with people like this and to de-escalate in general. i think i lot of them need treatment for their own PTSD. i think they fucked up here.
but i don’t think it’s realistic either to think that they can, in practice, handle things the same way a nurse with many years of experience and additional tools can. and i would also point out that many social workers (not my profession but related, just the last field i saw stats on) have been assaulted by their clients.
i think the parents could have handled it better. i think it’s possible cultural attitudes toward mental illness or other factors unique to the family played a part in their decision-making.
and as another parent of a person with developmental disability (plus serious mental illness), i think it is wise to prepare yourself and your child for how you might handle circumstances in which you or someone else needs to call for help. i don’t think it is safest for your child or for you (or others, obviously) for you to refuse to call until there is a body.
but i also understand that your experience and your child are not the same as mine.
i just wish the cops hadn’t fucked up, and i wish the family had done it differently. for all the good that does.
edit - extra words, a wrong word
i don’t think it is safest for your child or for you (or others, obviously) for you to refuse to call until there is a body.
Man a little hyperbole brings out all the haters. 🙂
i think police need training to work with people like this and to de-escalate in general. i think i lot of them need treatment for their own PTSD. i think they fucked up here.
but i don’t think it’s realistic either to think that they can, in practice, handle things the same way a nurse with many years of experience and additional tools can. and i would also point out that many social workers (not my profession but related, just the last field i saw stats on) have been assaulted by their clients.
All your points are reasonable. But I have to weigh all other factors against the likelihood that cops are going to show up and harm or kill my child unnecessarily.
Are there actually other circumstances where I’d call police? Probably. Is it MY fault that I need to do this calculus about whether the folks paid to help might kill my child instead? No, it’s not, and I won’t apologize for it.
no, you shouldn’t have to do that calculus. but i want your kid to be okay if it ever comes to that.
Here’s a hypothetical for you, if your son had an episode and took someone hostage with a knife, you wouldn’t call the police?
Sure, OK, you have found a corner case. Bravo, I guess? We can pretend I was using the modern definition of the word “literally.” 😉
It doesn’t change the overall point.
Here’s a hypothetical for you, which is far more likely than your own for an autistic kid. My son doesn’t even have the concept of holding someone hostage, and I venture to guess this is true for lots of others on the spectrum.
Let’s say he has a knife in his hand because that’s what he happened to have in his hand (somehow) when his fight or flight mechanism was triggered, and now he’s massively overstimulated, and in a meltdown. He’s not trying to hurt anyone (I’m not convinced he knows stabbing someone is an option a knife provides), but he’s waving it around because he is very active with his arms when he’s overstimulated, and he might even try to grapple with someone while holding it, again not really recognizing the potential for great harm. It’s going to be a real challenge to get it from him safely, and someone could get badly injured.
Do I call the cops in that circumstance? Not if I want to see him sans-bulletholes again. (Not a direct example of what I described, but close enough for these purposes.)
Edited to add - I read the story in OP, or I read about Linden Cameron, or I read about Elijah McClain (and others) and that’s my son there, or may as well be. Elijah McClain especially - heartbreaking. Nothing about any of those circumstances seems like an outcome I couldn’t imagine with any given group of police. I have no faith that more than a vanishingly small percentage would even see the problem with how these situations were handled, let alone try to do it differently.
Please, I hope you didn’t take my hypothetical as an attack, I think based on the emoji you understood my position.
As to your hypothetical, I do understand. I had a cousin that was autistic, probably mid-slightly high functioning, and he did not understand how to adjust his “strength” when putting hands on people while joking vs angry and it resulted in many situations where we had to separate him from the younger children that didn’t know how to guard themselves appropriately.
My point is that even in a controlled environment, its difficult to handle these situations and ultimately my experiences have informed me enough that despite how much I loved my cousin, I needed to think about the people around him first in certain circumstances.
My cousin is no longer living, he had a heart attack; however, despite his inability to control his strength, I did allow him to be around my kids, but never alone and never without me being on pins and needles the entire time. Its sad to say that, but ultimately I am just glad he and them got to interact. It brought joy to both of them equally, I’m sure.
But to answer my own hypothetical, I wouldn’t hesitate to call the cops if I knew my cousin had done something wrong even if he didn’t believe he had. At a certain point, I believe you have to put aside your concern for the unstable person and think more about the ones that could be potentially hurt.
Please, I hope you didn’t take my hypothetical as an attack
I kinda took it as a bit of a strawman, even if unintentional. That’s why I contrasted with a more reasonable one.
I appreciate that your intent is not to defend police regarding OP or in general. However, as I said elsewhere, are there actually other circumstances where I’d call police? Probably. My original statement was (slightly) hyperbolic.
However, is it MY fault that I need to do this calculus about whether the folks paid to help might kill my child instead? No, it’s not, and I won’t apologize for it.
Police have earned their reputation.
If I can’t count on them to help without killing me or people I love needlessly, I’m not going to call them. I would think anyone, even a cop, would understand this fundamental requirement.
My cousin is no longer living, he had a heart attack; however, despite his inability to control his strength, I did allow him to be around my kids, but never alone and never without me being on pins and needles the entire time. Its sad to say that, but ultimately I am just glad he and them got to interact. It brought joy to both of them equally, I’m sure.
I’m sorry for the sad ending to your story, but glad that there were opportunities for joy along the way. These situations are tough, I get it.
they asked me and others to leave the house when i called (active suicidality and psychosis). i told them we would not, that i was sitting next to him on the floor and two minors were in their rooms nearby. i hoped they would be less likely to do something stupid when they knew there were three other people here and one actively witnessing and close to him.
i think it ensured they were more thoughtful entering my home, and he was calmer when they entered because i remained.
fortunately, i had calmed him enough and taken the weapon that this was even a possibility. i suspect it doesn’t hurt that we’re white.
I have a family member who had a wellness check called in for her and the cops came in and immediately beat her ass. Don’t let these fuckers into your house. Ever.
Never call a wellness check on someone if you aren’t cool with them being killed.
Wellness checks are notorious for being lethal, it’s absurd.
Got a problem?
Call the cops.
Now you’ve got two problems!
Devil’s advocate: or one less problem, eh.
You’re right; the cops cured his bipolar disorder /s
Cured it like you’d cure a ham.
The /s is the most important 2 characters in your reply.
I’m going to leave it up as my penance.
Epic
Devil’s advocate’s advocate: Or they’ve multiplied…
I’m telling you, cops work. Anytime I had a problem and I called the cops, boom! Right away, I had a different problem.
Something something, I’d rather be alone with a bear.
Just to be clear, the family didn’t call the police. The mobile response team did, which is typically done when there’s a weapon.
Ok, that’s fine. We’d need more details about what actually transpired and what the support team told the cops.
But it sure seems like in a situation where the support team calls them, it should be with the understanding that they’re there for backup, not to barge in and fire.
1: They want to hurt themselves or others.
2: They said how they’ll do it.
3: They said they’ll be doing it NOW or at a definitive time.
If these 3 things aren’t answered with any definitive answers, they’ll leave you alone.
You can say who you’ll kill, you can say how, but if you don’t say you plan to do it NOW or on May 23rd, you’re going to stay at home unless you have insurance and plan to go somewhere voluntarily.
=
Use this life hack to never have to deal with police and kill yourself if you want to as long as you’ve exhausted all real options. Pro-Choice all the way. Ain’t nobody but you gets a say on whether you want to live or not.
Set time? Set how? No person? No 51.15.
Don’t know when? Set how. Set kys. No 51.15
Say it’s tomorrow? Don’t know how. Say you’ll kys. Maybe 51.15, just don’t convince them differently.
E: Forgot the obvious. Don’t threaten anyone while you have a weapon in your possession. No, the police can no longer leave you alone. They are not allowed to just let you kill yourself without being sued into oblivion. Yes, if you threaten them with a weapon at close distance, they will kill you. No, it doesn’t matter if you’re mentally unwell, don’t threaten people with lethal weapons. Being unwell doesn’t give you carte blanche to PHYSICALLY threaten and/or hurt people.
The police also tried to calm him down by whining about how “hard” their job is and tried to bitch about him “making a scene”. They really have zero empathy and probably aren’t even capable of understanding how the entire outcome was their fault. The definition of “why did you make me abuse you?”.
(Warning, some graphic imagery)
Don’t call police unless you want someone to die.
Google called police on their own employees. I keep saying this.
When? And why?
It was during a quiet sit-in in protest of Google abetting genocide. They also fired everyone in the area, even people who weren’t directly involved.
“Don’t be evil” was a canary clause. There’s a reason it doesn’t appear in any of their documents anymore.
It does, akshually.
They removed it from the preface of the Code of Conduct to being a footnote in that document no one will read.
this is why SWATing is so freaking scary.
Very genuine question: why do cops never use taser guns for situations like this? Presumably they knew the weapon was a knife, so no risk of a shootout.
Honestly this is what infuriates me when 2nd amendment enthusiasts say “UK cops should carry guns” - fuck off mate, we de-escalate and use non-lethal way more effectively than your wanker cops who only have a hammer and everything is a nail.
Give your cops a toolkit instead of just a hammer and you’ll see the difference.
You’re responding to someone asking why they don’t use their tasers. They have a toolkit. They choose to only use the hammer from it.
Yeah my comment wasn’t intended to be critical of the person I was replying to - it was infact highlighting their point.
American cops don’t tend to use tasers when the suspect is wielding a knife because it’s seen as a lethal weapon, to which they have a lethal response for. Or as another responder replied - the training is the issue, US cops are hardly short of equipment.
HEY! Civilian, stop talking about stuff you know nothing about!
In dangerous situations and non-whites (same thing , right) we need LETHAL FORCE to control the situation. If someone us murd…I mean, fatally shot, so be it.
Tasers are just for torture. It’s fun but we can’t be always playing! We’re working here!
/s
Tasers kinda suck.
Dunno man. Gunshot wounds suck pretty bad too.
very genuine small penis.
At this point we need to treat Police with rules similar to the handling of a firearm. Always assume they can go off, only ever point them at something you’re willing to kill, and be aware of possible collateral damage.
Can always trust the cops to show up and make everything infinitely worse.
Yup. The way I like to phrase it is “there’s no problem that cops can’t make worse.”
Can’t have mental health issues if you’ve been shot dead. It’s the police way
No no no, it’s “fatally shot”!
“Shootalyzed”
A Psyshootogist
So he’s deader now?
do not call the police. many countries outside the united states understand this already
Eh no?
Most counties outside the US have actual police forces which are there to serve and protect.
Your Euro-centric bias is showing.
Maybe in Europe. SA, Africa, Asia, Indonesia probably not so much.
The US only has 911 for emergencies AFAIK, who else would you call? Of course, police is basically useless here as opposed to an ambulance, particularly in the US when they know little more than brute force, but IDK how much say you have in what service they dispatch.
We have separate numbers for each service other than the central Europe-wide 112, and they are free unless misuse happens. A boarding school roommate had a mental health breakdown so severe an ambulance was called, with actual trauma-trained doctors who provided basic psychiatric treatment (sedation pills and further care advice to dormkeepers). So an ambulance is helpful for mental health crises but I cannot imagine cops helping in any way in this case - they have restraint tools that might thwart violence or suicide attempts but this situation did not need them, and a doctor on the phone (which you get immediately) can help with everything else better than the police anyway.
Just fyi, 112 is normally a GSM standard emergency number and should work anywhere in the world on a GSM network. (In theory, so always worth a try in case of need)
Uhm, in Germany it’s completely normal for police to assist in situations of mental health and instead of shooting them they talk to them, or, as a last resort, restrain people and bring them back to a care facility, unharmed.
Police receive proper 3 year training and most of them even have a required university degree.
The training is the difference.
this is the way. there is a place for policing in society, and it should be composed of highly trained, educated professionals held to a high standard.
While the cops in Germany are a lot better trained and won’t kill you or harm you, many are still on power trips and try to screw you over. Some abuse their authority especially towards teens and they try to fine you if you’re an adult. Society needs that job, but man I rarely hear about good encounters with police. I feel like older people had a better experience with cops and younger people in Germany like the police a lot less, but I could be wrong.
You’re definitely right, it’s still a place where people with fantasies of power end up. It’s not all just sunshine and the media might be biased but compared to some countries it’s still a pretty high standard which should be the minimum in the US as well.
Police receive proper 3 year training
Pretty sure that’s 6 weeks in the US.
6 weeks of teaching them to shoot first I assume.
988 - the mental health hotline that is supposed to be the alternative to 911 - will call the cops too. There’s no winning.
It’s normal practice in the UK for police to aid the handling of mentally unstable people. The difference is that British police don’t shoot people. Ever.
As someone who struggles with mental illness, but has been lucky enough to not need intervention or hospitalization in my life so far, this seems like another good time to say ACAB.
ACAB
Please do not spread misinformation.
They aren’t literally saying anything about the marriage status of anyone’s parents. More that cops are all offensive or disagreeable persons
I’ve never heard of anyone intending the “B” to mean anything but “Bad”.
That’s funny, because I’ve never heard of anyone intending the B to mean “Bad”.
The usual expansion of it is “Bastards”.
I have always known B to be bastards
If you have a pit with a hundred snakes, and only two of them are aggressive and venomous, would you climb into that pit?
I sure as hell wouldn’t
It doesn’t matter if there are good cops, the few bad cops ruin all of them because it’s a dice roll who you get.
If you have 100 doctors and 2 of them are incompetent would you never go to hospital? Trusting any unknown person is a dice roll.
It’s never a bad time to say ACAB. Occasionally, one does something decent, but even a serial killer might occasionally hold the door open for somebody at the post office or whatever.
Every time I see a positive police story, I suspect copaganda. They are class traitors, restricting our liberties in order to protect capital, and it’s by design.
I’ve dealt with cops during bad mental health episodes. Honestly I’ve been extremely lucky - assuming ALL cops were bastards I’d 100% be dead right now.
The less interactions with Police you have the better. Even if a family member is having a mental health episode, you’re better off trying to figure out something yourself at this point. This same thing keeps happening where people call for help during a mental health crisis and Police kill them.
“police recount a clinician’s saying Yang was violent before the shooting on May 2”
Yeah, they knew that surely.
They knew they were going into an environment where someone with diminished mental capacity had access to bladed weapons.
They likely knew he was actively wielding bladed weapons.
They had access to less than lethal methods of self defence, tasers, body armour, mace, tranquilizers, superior numbers, training in hand to hand combat, fucking nets etc.
They chose to use firearms in lieu of these and shot a mentally ill person to death unnecessarily.
Guns should be a last resort, not a first resort
American cops are such fucking pussies
Acab tho but especially American ones
We had this happen in my town a couple weeks ago. Cop got called for a mental health check because a 19year old with a knife was acting erratic. Cop pulls up and gets out the car, the kid runs at him yelling “shoot me! Shoot me! Shoot me!” so the cop pulled out his gun and shot him. Didn’t go for the tazer or the his mace, just right to deadly force despite being called over specifically to prevent the kid from dying.
Cops should neve, under any circumstances, be called in for a mental episode. All they will do is escalate the situation and cause harm.
The family didn’t call the cops in this case. They called a mental health crisis team, and they called the cops due to the presence of a weapon.
depends where in the world you are.
in the USA, yeah, no argument from me.
Cops should neve, under any circumstances, be called in for a mental episode
Yea I’m gonna have to disagree with you hard on this one. Just because you dislike police or have had bad experiences does not mean you should let someone having a crisis subject others around them to a very real possibility of imminent danger because “cops bad”.
Do police need more training? Sure. Do they need major reform in many areas? Of course. But are they all bad? No.
As someone who has been on the receiving end of one of these sorts of calls, please for the love of everything holy, shut the god damn fuck up. Truly you have absolutely no idea what the fuck you are talking about. Calling the cops in a situation like that is so incredibly dangerous and stupid and harmful, you should feel ashamed for defending it. Please rethink your beliefs.
Cops should never be called for mental health episodes
Ever
End of story
You are wrong
According to the report, the dude had already attacked a mental health worker with the knife. Yeah, it sucks that they were in a mental health crisis, but they were absolutely a threat to others.
The cops absolutely should have been there, but they should have only been there protecting the mental health workers instead of entering the premises and confronting him. .
According to the report, the dude had already attacked a mental health worker with the knife.
That’s interesting, because it’s not what the health worker said.
“He just tried to attack me and the father,” a clinician, whose face is blurred, says in the video as Min Yang, whose face is also blurred, walks into the conversation. “He became very aggressive. He tried to kick me. I walk away. He had some physical altercation.”
Also of note is that his father disputes that even that happened:
Min Yang added that he was standing between his son and a clinician and never witnessed any kicking or physical violence, only shouting.
Exactly how much training do you think someone needs to not unload a gun on someone within 10 seconds of seeing them? Somehow every other non-cop present managed to not use him for target practice.
The bastard in question is even a repeat offender:
Lopez had been involved in a 2021 nonfatal shooting of a man who had a replica firearm.
Cops are bastards because the non-bastards either get fired, harassed out, or murdered. Being nice to people while you turn a blind eye to the shit your coworkers do is still being a bastard.
The mere presence of a cop, even without a visible weapon, will escalate any situation regarding mentally unstable people. Period.
If you don’t understand why a person going through a crisis would freak out when a figure of (ultimately violent) power appears right after they picked a weapon you have a serious problem with basic empathy.
For the record, I haven’t had any bad experiences with cops, in fact every interaction I’ve had so far has been either neutral or actually pretty nice. I’ve had my fair share of breakdowns as a teenager tho, and I can assure you that a cop would’ve never helped a single time. Even the nicest one.
Look at the report for this case, for example:
The officers met with DMH personnel outside the residence who indicated that the DMH were called to the scene due to Yang’s erratic and threatening behavior. The officers were also advised that Yang did not live at the location, and had attempted to assault one of the DMH employees when they attempted to speak with him. Based on their assessment, DMH determined Yang was a danger to others.
In their efforts to assist DMH personnel, the officers requested additional units, a supervisor, and notified the Department’s Mental Evaluation Unit. Several attempts were made to communicate with Yang and encourage him to exit the residence; however, he refused. After formulating a plan and obtaining a key to the residence, the officers ascended a narrow staircase leading to the front door. The officers announced their presence and then utilized the key to open the front door. As they did so, Yang was observed standing in the living room several feet away, armed with a large kitchen knife. Moments later, Yang advanced toward the officers and an Officer Involved Shooting occurred.
Here’s the singular question:
What was the rush?
They needed to take him in, but they are afraid of him acting erratic and wielding a knife.
Why the fuck do they push to enter the building? There was no one in there. He could not hurt anyone while he remained hold up inside other than himself.
Why couldn’t they just wait him out?
By pushing to resolve the situation immediately and forcing their way in, they exasperated the situation.
I think they should have been called, but they should be there as backup in case someone is getting attacked. But no one was in danger here. There was no reason to push this.
One of my biggest complaints with police and why things escalate unnecessarily is because they are fucking impatient. They give “orders” and if you don’t comply immediately you are met with force.
They are insecure, poorly educated bullies. Everything makes sense once you realize this about police in the US.
In my town having gone and served in Afghanistan basically allowed you to become a cop once you returned states side. No degree or special training needed.
TBF, I’d rather a soldier show up at my door than a cop. At least soldiers are usually better trained in discipline, situational awareness, and appropriately evaluating threats. They are also trained on rules of engagement and usually aren’t terrified about every single engagement they find themselves in.
Maybe our police would be better if they received the same level of training as soldiers. And maybe that’s it. Soldiers are more confident in their abilities because they’ve received adequate training.
You missed the options of using “less lethal” force as well, why go for live ammo immediately?
Because when someone is rushing at you with a deadly weapon, you may only get one shot, and not all ‘less lethal’ options are effective, especially on someone in a mental health crisis.
I agree that the cops never should have entered the premises in the first place, but in this instance they did and the victim had already been a direct threat to others. This one instance really isn’t a case of cops murdering an innocent person for absolutely no reason.
That really depends on how you look at it. They did murder an innocent person exactly because they made the wrong decision to engage in the first place. You can’t put yourself in harms way when it isn’t necessary then blame the danger you knew about in advance.
My opinion would be different if there was someone else in the apartment for them to defend, but there wasn’t.
The cops made a bad call and now someone is dead.
1 good cop isn’t gonna stop the other 20 from shooting your family and pets.
At the same time you can call social services and you end up with them being dead instead because someone having a psychotic episode slashed/shot them…
There are some police departments with salaried social workers and “community specialist” officers that are employed explicitly to deal with issues like this. The problem is that a change to law enforcement in this direction must come directly from each individual community and must be supported by those in charge of the local department.
That sounds absurd. Please provide one example of that happening.
https://people.com/teri-zenner-social-worker-murdered-widower-honors-memory-7557328
https://toronto.citynews.ca/2022/01/09/social-workers-field-safety-remains-concern-after-killing/
Yeah, social workers are never put in danger, right?
Cherry picking data does not a compelling argument make.
According to the Bureau of Labor and Statistics in 2022 the total number of deaths for community and social services in the US was… 19. (That’s on page 8, in case you want to check.)
I found a CBS article from 2017 that cited another BLS study which said that social workers were the 20th most dangerous job category in the US, with a fatality rate of 1 per 100,000 people. That’s fewer deaths than architects and engineers, which was the 19th deadliest job.
On the other hand, American police have killed more than 1000 people every year for the past ten years. To put that another way, the police killed more people last year than social workers died of job-related causes in the past decade.
It’s really funny that by almost every metric you can think of, policing in the US is systemically flawed and needs major oversight.
You should compare the number per 100k for the people killed by the police if you want to make a comparison that makes sense
1000 out of 330 000 000, that’s 0.3 per 100k, looks like police officers are less deadly to the population than the population is to social workers!
Also very funny that you would accuse me of cherry picking data when only situations where officers kill people during mental health checks get reported on, right?
So you’re trying to normalize your ass-pulled estimate of the entire population of the US to compare it to the normalized full-time equivalent workers (which obviously isn’t the entire US population)? You can understand why using people who had no interactions with the police would be an inaccurate comparison, right?
My dude, until you get a better understanding of statistics I’m not going to engage with you further.
Ass pulled estimate of the US population… I mean, the number is easy to find my dude if you want to confirm it.
Not all social workers get in contact with people suffering a mental breakdown while armed either, how is that relevant to the situation then?
Interesting that all these are Canadian stories
Didn’t know Illinois is a Canadian province… Also I’m in Canada so not surprising that Google would provide Canadian results for the most part.
It doesn’t happen because the social workers call the police, the paramedics call the police, the fire department calls the police…
The police are the catch all for emergency situations. “I don’t know what’s happening, send the police” is pretty standard practice.
It’s absurd to think that never happens. It’s not absurd to think that doesn’t happen as often as cops killing someone.
I never claimed it never happened. It’s just not something I ever recall hearing of. I spent 20 years in the medical industry and a few of those in the mental health space. I’ve heard of a lot of violence on mental health professionals but the characterization that the people I replied to didn’t fit with my understanding. I haven’t made it through all the articles but I’m still not convinced it’s a thing that happens enough to consider it anything but rare.
Please provide one example
Kind of implies that you think it never happens…
