You mean “they did it first” doesn’t hold up in international court?
Regardless of the technicalities and nuances in the reporting: this is a good thing.
Biden can’t save him, because we wouldn’t agree to the Rome act because we thought that somehow meant we couldn’t be charged at the Hauge for our war crimes. That’s not true tho, we don’t have to agree to it.
Israel and the United States are not members of the ICC. However, the ICC claims to have jurisdiction over Gaza, East Jerusalem and the West Bank after Palestinian leaders formally agreed to be bound by the court’s founding principles in 2015.
I mean… yes you do, since that’s a little bit how international law works? Countries who do not sign and ratify the Rome statute and then remain in there aren’t governed by the ICC in the same way.
You will see in the excerpt you quoted, the reason the ICC believes it has jurisdiction is because of events taking place in Palestine, which has taken part in the Rome Statute previously.
And the United States has a law that says it will militarily invade The Hague if any US service member is arrested and held by the court. It came about along with all the other legislative bullshit in the years after 9/11/01. The US had previously been a founding member of the ICC, but withdrew for reasons of sovereignty.
By your logic the nazis shouldn’t have been tried at the Hauge…
Is that what youre intentionally saying? Or did you not think it through?
Like even this bit:
And the United States has a law that says it will militarily invade The Hague if any US service member is arrested and held by the court. It came about along with all the other legislative bullshit in the years after 9/11/01. The US had previously been a founding member of the ICC, but withdrew for reasons of sovereignty.
If no US service member could be tried at the Hauge because the US didn’t sign the Rome agreement…
Why pass a law saying we’re not subject to it?
And when did Bibi join the US military anyways?
I missed that one…
First: it’s not my logic. It’s how this part of international law works. The International Criminal Court wasn’t created until 1998, and the statute that governs it only officially came into power in 2002. Not all countries have signed, and some (including the US) have withdrawn from it. This means that technically the ICC doesn’t have any jurisdiction over things that happen within its territory.
The US codified it into a domestic law because it doesn’t believe its should be beholden to any law higher than its domestic ones, and the United States often does shady things in countries where the ICC does have jurisdiction, making it a risk that US citizens (and leaders) can be arrested for crimes that occur there. So the US Congress wrote domestic policy stating that it reserved the right to invade if its citizens were held for trial.
And Bibi didn’t join the US military. But the US has shown it’s willing to support his administration through an awful lot of shit, and the US doesn’t have any ambiguity about how it regards the ICC.
Finally, are you referring to the Nuremberg trials? Nazis weren’t tried in The Hague court we are discussing, and I’m not sure any nazi trials happened there at all.
…
I think that will help you understand
Yes, the origin of one of the international courts in The Hague, specifically the one that prosecutes individuals, the International Criminal Court, comes from the Nuremberg Trials. I never disputed that lineage. Those nazi trials happened in Nuremberg, not The Hague, and before the ICC existed.
the origin of one of the international courts in The Hague, specifically the one that prosecutes individuals, the International Criminal Court, comes from the Nuremberg Trials.
The ICC was created in 2002, just FYI. So long after the Nuremberg Trials. And the ICJ predates Nuremberg via its predecessor entities.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Criminal_Court
You’re meaningfully correct in everything you’re saying though. Just saying this for full context
The US codified it into a domestic law because it doesn’t believe its should be beholden to any law higher than its domestic ones
Well that’s not true. Our Constitution clearly places treaties above domestic law.
Sovereignity, my ass. They just don’t want war crimes committed by their own military investigated by an independent body.
Correct.
That position and sovereignty are not mutually opposed, depending on the view you take towards international law.
Hittem with that “sovereignty to do what?”
International law gets weird. Tradition is absolutely a legitimate way for something to get recognized. That works because of Sovereignty and the intense political nature of anything between countries. So basically, if someone got an Israeli to the Hague, then the Netherlands could point at the decades of precedent for the moral high ground in refusing to release them. Whether that works depends on politics and what people think. So just because we didn’t sign the paper does not mean we can resist it forever. If the world wants to head in that direction, the best we can do is dig our feet in and make it take longer.
And no sane US president would use the Hague Invasion Act. It’s an open question if the military would even follow the order. that would require invading a NATO ally with strong defense systems tied into their neighbors. It would be a great way to obliterate our world standing in one fell swoop.
I’m not sure I understand how these warrants can take place. It will come from other member states in case any of them travel there?
Also how is it that Putin has not been arrested yet? Has he avoided those destinations.
If I misunderstood something or everything, please let me know.
They can’t make a country arrest it’s own leader.
But if they travel to any UN country, the country is supposed to arrest them, or coordinate with countries willing to.
So these are more like an exile than anything.
Kind of like a sanction but instead of money it’s on personal travel.
Sanctions are still waaaaaay more effective though and what we should be doing. Money is what these despots care about.
so this also means that if netanyahu loses elections, he can be just sent to hague
If the person who beats him wants too…
And if Netenyahu even lets Israel have elections. Before 10/7 he was already in the process of getting kicked out of office, the only reason he’s still in power is 10/7.
Only to countries that are part of the ICC. Many countries, including the US, aren’t a part so Netanyahu can safely travel to those places.
Yes, Putin has avoided those destinations so far. He even got warned by South Africa that they’d have to arrest him if he were to travel to a meeting there.
Thank you for the clarification!
Can we talk about a story that’s fallen through the cracks here? CNN claiming this as an exclusive is madness. Who do these people think they are? And should the ICC issue arrest warrants about it? 😉
CNN claiming this as an exclusive is madness
That’s an excellent point you’re making
EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW
Have anyone opened the link?
They changed it to that considerably less bonkers headline. Perhaps because they became of aware of their legal exposure under international laws against poor taste…? 🧐
Also, not sure if just me, but I couldn’t give a flying fuck whether a news outlet is first to break a story or not. Seems a bit self conglatulatory
All the better to control the narrative if you can DCMA the rest?
Is Giuliani behind this tact?
Let’s check what the left wing “progressive” israelis think about this.
Herein lies one of the innumerable differences between democratic socialists and liberals
It’s not comparing them, they have just all went over the bar for being war criminals.
Oh boy, I can’t wait to see the reactions of politicians of the “free world” that prevented anyone to say anything against Israel for years on the pretext of antisemitism.
Especially that useless POS of Emanuel Macron, our infamous president.
People’s take on this stuff always seems so naive to me. All war ever can be viewed as an attempt to arrest the leader of another group for “crimes”. When you get arrested… that means you lost the war. Winning a war means you didn’t get arrested.
The ICC is such a silly stupid waste of human attention. It’s like an idea that children came up with after watching Star Trek. It has no utility whatsoever for our species. We fight, we have winners and losers. If you start a fight with somebody stronger than you, you are gonna have a bad time. If you start a fight with someone weaker than you, others will think you are dishonorable. That doesn’t mean you get arrested.
ICC signatories have to arrest anyone with a warrant against them if they visit that country. That severely limits the number of state visits Netanyahu and others with warrants against them can make. That’s not a minor thing. Big deals are made during state visits.
Anybody who tries to arrest him will be at war with Israel and probably the US and probably a lot of other nations. They will break their treaty with ICC before they start that war and everyone fucking knows it. Why do we pretend?
And yet this stopped Putin from going to South Africa.
Yeah you have no idea what the ICC is or what it does, nor what this warrant implies. You really believe that the ICC has done nothing? You should do some reading.
This warrant won’t go away and the countries that this guy can still visit with this warrant will b extremely limited. This also puts much more pressure on Israel as he is now officially lumped in with other convicted war criminals. This is a good thing ™
This interpretation is a vague apologia for war crimes. This line of thinking means the Nuremberg Trials were a complete waste of time and the Nazis should not be held accountable.
No, it means they were ONLY held accountable because they lost the war.
Nobody prosecuted Churchill for Dresden
Israel is losing?
LoooooooL Arrest Sinwar.
One of the best jokes to come out of the UN in a long time.
Do you know what an arrest warrant is?
Also, the ICC court has not yet ruled on it. A prosecutor requested it.
Do you know what hamas is?
This is the first one they have issued to a non-Africans, right?
Slobodan Milošević was put to trial under a parallel organization, the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia. The ICC didn’t exist yet when the ICTY was founded.
Sloby died in jail before coming to a verdict.
Putin and another Russian, Maria, have been indicted as well, according to Wikipedia
Oh wow. TIL
There’s also open cases against Putin’s puppets in Georgia for the invasion of South Ossetia.
Anyone else thinks these two look remarkably similar?
I think it’s mainly the eyebrows they way they’re pointed up in roughly the same spot.
Doesn’t seem as much beyond that to me
Haggered
Nice that they see the criminals on both sides.
Same side.
Hamas is almost totally funded by Benny and his croneys.
Was I think, they stopped a few years ago.
Wow, whitewashing Iran and Qatar’s role in Hamas’ actions. Very progressive left of you.
Boo hoo, did the homegrown terrorist org funded by state interest as a propaganda machine get outta hand?
I’m interested in sticking to the facts. If you aren’t, that’s fine. I can block and move on with my day.
Man you are talking about whitewashing as you actively try to shift blame from the inceptor and then try and say your talking about facts.
Fact of the matter is that palastinian terrorism is caused by Israel. Both their genocidal and apartheid ends and directly through funding of groups like Hamas early in their years to promote harsh measures to continue their genocide and apartheid ends.
“Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu defended Israel’s regular allowing of Qatari funds to be transferred into Gaza, saying it is part of a broader strategy to keep Hamas and the Palestinian Authority separate, a source in Monday’s Likud faction meeting said,” the Post reported.
But nah. You wanna deflect facts and focus on Qatar like everyone doesn’t already know that. This information is ment to be taken in conjunction but your so far up your own ass you see it as an argument and whitewashing.
You want facts? Facts say Israel funded Hamas. Nurtured it and kept it on the edge of scary to propagandize it’s civilian population. Then it bit them in the ass on Oct 7th.
If your first thought about hamas isn’t how Israel as a state purposely created and maintained it then it’s you who isn’t operating on facts.
Do you actually understand what you are posting yourself? Qatar funded Hamas under an agreement with Bibi which enabled Bibis strategy and Qatars own political goals. Did Israel fund Hamas in those years? No. Did Israel actively guarantee that Qatar funds Hamas? Yes.
Man walks in here waving his post around like I GOT HIM, I GOT HIM SO GOOD as he points out the content of the article like i don’t know what it says. Nah dude. I know what it says, I call that funding. You would too if your head was so far up your own ass.
Lol, I don’t support Israel in this conflict.
Who gives a shit what you support? Your being a dummy for attention at this point.
Oh no. Watch out everyone, this guy’s gonna stick to the facts by checks notes plugging his ears and walking away.
If it is a fact that Israel is paying for Hamas and Iran and Qatar aren’t, it will be very easy for you to prove that.
I will wait.
that was really trivially easy
Israel has allowed suitcases holding millions in Qatari cash to enter Gaza through its crossings since 2018
I’m sure bibi did that out of the spirit of charity.
Look, as far as I can tell, Israel created a monster, then lost control of the monster. The monster has since found other sources of support. In trying to perform ethnic cleansing and forced land transfers over the last 80ish years, they have also been monstrous. There is wicked evil on both sides of this pointless genocidal war. Stop plugging your ears to the parts that make the people you happen to already agree with look bad.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/netanyahu-israel-gaza-hamas-1.7010035
Oh nooo, did someone open their fucking mouth about shit they don’t know about and are about to get dunked on?
“Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu defended Israel’s regular allowing of Qatari funds to be transferred into Gaza, saying it is part of a broader strategy to keep Hamas and the Palestinian Authority separate, a source in Monday’s Likud faction meeting said,” the Post reported.
Netanyahu’s current finance minister, West Bank settler Belazel Smotrich, explained the approach to Israel’s Knesset channel in 2015: “Hamas is an asset, and (Palestinian Authority leader) Abu Mazen (Mahmoud Abbas) is a burden.”
“Both Egypt and Qatar are angry with Hamas and planned to cut ties with them. Suddenly Netanyahu appears as the defender of Hamas,” the right-wing leader complained.
A year later, Netanyahu was further embarrassed when photos of suitcases full of cash going to Hamas became public. Liberman finally resigned in protest over Netanyahu’s Hamas policy which, he said, marked “the first time Israel is funding terrorism against itself.”
At this point, which one?
FFS so Netanyahu was extremely close to being pushed out of power and this dumbass pulls this stunt (just to get publicity) which only makes it easy for Netanyahu to make the case that “it’s us against the world”. He’s also seeking to prosecute Gallant, the guy that would most likely make the push to remove Netanyahu. So he’s pushing Gallant back towards falling back in line with Natanyahu.
Does this idiot want Netanyahu to stay in power? He’s basically throwing a lifeline to Bibi while throwing away the credibility of the ICC. Never attribute to malice and all that, so likely just a moron.
Fuck, I was starting to have some hope the Netanyahu could be gone in the next few weeks and this guy is pulling out all the stops to keep him in power. All to get his face on TV.
The position of support for creating a famine seems to have wider support than just Bibi. This guy’s move puts in focus that creating a famine is a war crime, and he’s forcing the Israelis players to face that and state their support or lack thereof clearly. Getting rid of Bibi alone might not increase the aid in Gaza. If the other party leaders aren’t willing to throw Bibi and Gallant under the bus for this and/or shift gears on aid, then perhaps the Israeli political class is too far gone and the world should increase the pressure till someone gets it and starts telling the Israeli public that what’s happening is wrong and is extremely counterproductive for Israel as whole.
Also, some polling shows Bibi’s coalition being neck and neck with the alternative so the narrative that Bibi is certain to be ejected by Israel’s democracy isn’t so solid.
Israel asked for help from Arab countries in providing support in dealing with the humanitarian crisis. They laughed in the Israelis faces.
The problem is too many people are willing to let the Palestinians die in order to win some propaganda war against Israel. I don’t feel like anyone really cares about Palestinians. They’d rather Palestinians die so they can have proof Israel is evil.
Joe Biden has built a pier to provide aid. This is more than anyone else has done to prevent famine. But the propaganda says he’s “Genocide Joe”.
I’ve seen stickers around the town where I live calling him “Jihad Joe” for helping the Palestinians. He gets hate coming and going, meanwhile thousands of tons of aid are reaching the people of Gaza because of him.
I’ve always said the Pro-Palestine crowd and the MAGAs are basically the same people. Gotta ignore anything that doesn’t conform to whichever narrative they’ve gotten sucked into.
I’ve always said the Pro-Palestine crowd and the MAGAs are basically the same people.
Why because you are an ideologically bankrupt centrist that finds it convenient to equate protestors desperately trying to stop a genocide with MAGA heads… who tried to violently overthrow the US government because it wasn’t hateful enough for them?
You aren’t welcome in the progressive coalition if you desire to ignore reality in favor of a “both sides” narrative to the degree you are doing. We are talking about a genocide here and you are saying the people trying to stop it are crazy, violent hateful extremists who are obsessed with hurting trans people for no reason, fucking over women and taking power away from everybody but white men.
“You have to finish up your war. You have to finish it up. You’ve got to get it done,” he said in an interview with Israeli newspaper Israel Hayom. “We’ve got to get to peace. You can’t have this going on, and I will say Israel has to be very careful because you are losing a lot of the world. You are losing a lot of support.”
The pier is having trouble getting aid past the Israeli offensive, but over 1000 tons have already been airdropped, and once logistics are worked out for the pier it’s expected to deliver 500 tons of aid per day.
What are you talking about… Arab countries didn’t stop food and water going into Gaza, Israel’s leadership did.
They were asked to help distribute food and refused. Just something you’re not you seeing in your information silo.
What the fuck kind of argument is this? Courts aren’t supposed to play politics, they are supposed to enforce the law. And if you want to do that in a genocide case you have to prove intent. Gallant made several public statements that can interpreted in that way.
This guy is playing politics. If he wasn’t he’d just put in the paperwork instead of sitting down for an interview with CNN.
See how Jack Smith, a serious prosecutor rolls. There are very few press conferences and they are concise and to the point.
This guy is playing games to get publicity, he’s probably working on a book deal or whatever right now to monetize the publicity.
More links
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3ggpe3qj6wo
https://apnews.com/article/icc-khan-netanyahu-070941d21ccd1f2b9611032b88527575
Karim Khan said that he believes Netanyahu, his defense minister Yoav Gallant and three Hamas leaders — Yehia Sinwar, Mohammed Deif and Ismail Haniyeh — are responsible for war crimes and crimes against humanity in the Gaza Strip and Israel.
The prosecutor must request the warrants from a pre-trial panel of three judges, who take on average two months to consider the evidence and determine if the proceedings can move forward.
Israel is not a member of the court, and even if the arrest warrants are issued, Netanyahu and Gallant do not face any immediate risk of prosecution. But Khan’s announcement deepens Israel’s isolation as it presses ahead with its war, and the threat of arrest could make it difficult for the Israeli leaders to travel abroad.
Both Sinwar and Deif are believed to be hiding in Gaza as Israel tries to hunt them down. But Haniyeh, the supreme leader of the Islamic militant group, is based in Qatar and frequently travels across the region.
“Let me be clear,” the president said in the statement, “whatever this prosecutor might imply, there is no equivalence – none – between Israel and Hamas.”
Biden saying the right things as usual. /s
It’s true. Hamas is posting rookie numbers. They’ve got to up their death count by around 10x before they can be in Israel’s league.
At this point they need to gag the man and have surrogates stump for him.
Calling on the militant branch of the Yang Gang?
It’s a good thing that he’s not President and this is all Trump’s fault. /s
Yeah, Trump certainly helped stabilize the area by moving the Embassy. And that mid-east peace plan his SIL got paid $2 billion for was worth every cent.
Haha, just mention Trump and you guys show up. We’re not pro Trump.
