Lemmy.world is pro genocide
Biden can stop the genocide but not only chooses not to at the risk of losing the election, but enables Israel to commit more violence and war crimes.
With how one-sided and not-thought-out-well this comic is, I can’t help but come with this point:
Does the lady liberty side not not concerned about the genocide they are supporting? I mean, if you assume the protesters focused against the genocide their own government has a great part in as not caring about anything while they are protesting this one, the most extreme human suffering, issue with a lot of burning passion it deserves and not caring about other things, you have to look at the other side and see they have no cards against this genocide.
Are multi-issue voters okay with funding genocide as long as their own rights are not infringed upon?
I’m deeply uncomfortable with the amount of people calling those wholly opposed to complicity in genocide as “single issue voters”. Sure, if genocide isn’t enough of a concern for you to oppose candidates that are complicit, then I guess you can call it “single issue”.
We’re talking genocide here, so I’m going to compare this to the most known genocide on the planet. Imagine if we knew about and could see the Holocaust occurring as it happened when it started, and FDR was funding the Reich including circumventing congress. Would you expect people to still vote for FDR, or would you expect people to oppose his candidacy?
If Trump wins, funding for Israel will increase, and even more Palestinians will die. So basically, you’re valuing your purity over human lives. Which is quite fascist, if you think about it.
“Opposing genocide is fascist” is certainly a take.
No, it’s fucking not. Cornel West opposes funding to Israel, supports a 2 state solution, and supports the same issues strawmanned by lady liberty. I value the end of a genocide as well as a socialist economy. If neither of the mainstream candidates will stop the genocide, I’m going to vote for the only candidate that wants to stop the genocide as well as handle the other issues I care about, in a way I’d align with. My barely tepid patience with Biden and supporters like you has run out.
I upvoted you for at least naming a potential candidate, rather than vaguely saying “someone else”.
I would agree with this if not for the fact that you live in an absolute farce of a democracy where voting for a third party is nothing but a protest vote. Which seems fine to do in a state that will vote majority democrat anyway, but plain irresponsible in one that won’t.
Discouraging people from voting 3rd party only ever hurts Democrats and liberal candidates. We’re not just electing the president, which is where most of the 3rd parties appear, we’re voting for everything. Telling people in battleground states that voting for “their guy” is pointless will stop the liberal and progressive people that support Cornel and Stein from going to vote. Those people vote Democrat down-ballot.
The reality is that either Trump or Biden will win and if you’re not voting for either of them then, practically speaking, you might as well not vote at all. Third party candidates only ever get a tiny fraction of the overall vote and that’s not going to change this time.
I’m not casting a protest vote. I’m voting honestly because there is no way to strategically vote for the less genocidal candidate.
Biden is the less genocide candidate. He’s been getting aid into Gaza, putting pressure on Israel, and directing funds towards humanitarian aid. All of that would cease immediately under trump.
Realistically, the best way to reduce genocide is through protest, donations, and activism. Electorally, the best option is to vote for Biden in the hopes we can keep trump from going full genocide on day one.
Also: vote in primaries
clearly my message went over your head. Either a candidate supports a genocide, or they don’t. Biden can wag his finger all he wants, he’s still complicit in genocide. The truth is that he’s handling Israel more conservatively than Ronald Fucking Reagan.
If you put things in such stark black and white terms then every president has supported genocide; they’ve been funding Israel since the beginning, and America itself is built on stolen, colonized, and occupied land.
In truth elections have consequences, and across the board things will be substantially worse under trump than Biden.
Your moral purity will kill more people. Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
I think it depends on how people/voters see the particular conflict. When Bush jr put a genocide on the Taliban, he had a lot of support. When Obama put one on ISIS, he had a lot of support. When Biden stopped US support for genocides in Yemen or Rwanda, voters didn’t really seem to care one way or another.
Lmao I’m sorry. You think the US committed genocide in Afghanistan and Syria? I must have missed the part where we carpet bombed them and withheld food.
When did Biden interfere with the Rwandan genocide, famously known for global inaction as the Hutus killed nearly 1 million Tutsis? Fuck off with this transparently bad faith talking point.
And I’m deeply uncomfortable thinking that giving a chance to the candidate that thinks Hitler is a great guy AND the USA should do some of the same things as Nazi Germany while he’ll ALSO keep funding Nazi Germany, but even harder, is sane - let alone even a viable argument for those already opposed to the current choice already funding genocide.
Even the EU is learning how stupid Americans are and are making plans to not rely on it at all + make entry harder (next year you won’t be able to travel to just countries here for extended stay easily anymore by passport alone for example). And dumbasses like you are proving there’s a severe lack of critical thinking.
The “if Trump wins” folks are angry at the implication that their vote is tacit support of genocide, but are fine with the implication that not voting for Biden is tacit support for Trump
Stopping gun violence is what the Gaza protestor is trying to to do. Banning bigotry? Yep, same. Save democracy? How? By standing strong with genocide? Not very fucking likely, imo.
For all of the people who will inevitably show up to say “But you can’t criticize Biden, it’s an election year”: man, I can’t imagine offering such a bad take completely unprompted and free of charge. People are throwing tomatoes at you from the shores of history, you just don’t know it yet. Supporting genocide is wrong, period. If Biden doesn’t want to be criticized for it, maybe they should stop supporting it.
For all of the people who will inevitably show up to say “But you can’t criticize Biden, it’s an election year”:
I have never heard anyone say that. In fact, it’s because you can criticize Biden and there’s even an outside chance he’ll listen that makes him the better candidate than the guy who listens to nobody ever, unless the message is how to make him more wealthy.
The only propaganda I want to spread is the propaganda of stopping genocide. I’d love to see Biden do it. Like, unironically. Please, as soon as possible.
Im convinced neoliberals are genuinely heartless.
Best we can do is expanding funding for military hardware for police and criminalizing homelessness.
You are getting downvoted for the context, not because of one line that seems disingenuous in the context of your posts.
They can’t see the forest because all the trees are in the way.
Stopping gun violence is what the Gaza protestor is trying to to do.
Because Palestinians don’t fucking shoot and kill people…? Way to jump the shark.
Hamas murdered more people in 1 day than every American school shooting combined.
Do you listen to yourself? What the fuck are you even talking about?Banning bigotry? Yep, same
Hamas is an Islamic terrorist group founded on an explicit call for genocide against Israeli Jews.
They aren’t flying rainbow flags or celebrating pride month this year, either.Save democracy? How?
By voting against a self-described “dictator” who happens to also be an authoritarian kleptocrat who calls every election he’s ever been in “rigged”, pressured Secretaries of States to just make up votes, coordinated false electors to overthrow the election, pressured his VP to call the certification process into question and who generally doesn’t believe in the peaceful transition of power.
I’m not gonna ask you to suck Biden’s cock or anything, feel free to dislike his handling of the Israeli-Palestinian war (a war he neither started nor wanted to happen in the first place) if you want. It’s my view that America’s actions so far have actually saved thousands of lives in the region, and it’s an objective fact that Biden has delivered more aide to Gazan civilians than anyone else. (Don’t let that stop you from being pissed off at the wrong guy.)
But, seeing everything we’ve seen over the last 10 years, are you seriously going to deny that Trump and the Republicans are an existential threat to American democracy?
Supporting genocide is wrong, period
The Palestinians aren’t innocent in this either–they (and the Arab League) threw the first punch back in 1948, and they (Hamas) threw the first punch on October 7th of last year. It takes 2 to tango. Both sides of this fight have been complicit in doing evil shit building up to the conflict we have today. When people say things like “Palestine should be free from the river to the sea”, how can you read that as anything other than a call for genocide against Israeli jews? Hamas surrendered any facade of legitimacy when they conducted a terrorist attack on Israel last year (intentionally killing more people in a single day than Israel has been killing in Gaza on average). Hamas has fired something like 10,000 rockets at Israel (and that’s not counting the attacks from Iran, Hezbollah, etc.), so how many thousands more people do you think would be dead today if Israel didn’t have the capability to defend against those kinds of attacks?
The only peaceful, non-genocidal solution to this ~80 year war is a two-state solution in which Israelis and Palestinians learn to put aside their mutual hatred, dis-empower the extremists who run their societies, and coexist. Neither Hamas nor Netenyahu are capable of delivering this. Hamas will soon pay the ultimate price for their cowardice and terrorism (as they should), and hopefully the Israeli people will see that Netenyahu has failed to protect them and democratically remove him from power.
Yes, you have persuaded me that the only rational course of action remaining is to leave babies to die of neglect after you force hospital staff out at gunpoint, murder ambulance crews and their patients, murder aid workers, murder anyone in the same building as a militant in one of the highest density populations on earth, force men, women, and children to starve when the world is ready to deliver aid, tell people to go to refugee camps and then bomb the refugee camps, massacre people for rushing to a food truck to get food for the crime of being desperate and hungry, destroy their homes and possessions, reject peace deals that include the abolition of hamas as an organization, close off every means of escape, and then move your people into their land once you’ve sufficiently killed them off.
Of all the cases for genocide, you made, well, one of them. I would say that I hope you feel as good about it in the future as you do now, but I wouldn’t mean it, because it’s a fucking genocide and you’re defending it. I get that you don’t seem to want the extermination of all Palestinians, but you’re going to bat for a government that does.
You engaged with a grand total of 0 of the points that I made. So A+ dodging I guess. Congratulations on being a classic bad faith actor.
Hamas are a terrorist organization that openly advocates for genocide and commits war crimes, murdering civilians in cold blood, taking hostages, operating out of hospitals and aide organizations, and using innocent people as human shields. They have a PR department, and they don’t need any new hires right now, sorry.
The only peaceful, non-genocidal solution to the Israeli-Palestinian war is a two-state solution. Fuck Hamas, fuck Netenyahu, and also to a much lesser extent, fuck you. I didn’t “make a case for genocide”, you did. If you think Hamas are going to go down in history as heroes or freedom fighters, you’re as dumb as you are ignorant of history.
I don’t think they’ll go down as heroes, I think this is going to go down more or less how native American genocide happened in the US west. Native Americans would do cattle raids or revenge killings, which were often used as justifications for even more violence against non-combatants (followed by the taking of that sweet, sweet land). Which is more or less what’s happening here. I think the formation of the modern Israeli state was a huge mistake, and now we’ve got to deal with it. Ultimately, no solution’s going to be popular, but letting the IDF commit genocide while saying “but HAMAS” ain’t it. HAMAS has offered to disband itself in the latest peace talks, which Israel rejected. That really just leaves the naked truth that what Israel wants in the land, and if they’ve got to murder everyone there for it, that’s a small price for the US to subsidize.
Is there a way to set up a reminder to check this post in an hour and see the shitshow that the comments turn into?
The bot didn’t mention you so here’s my manual reminder.
Is 58.minutes close enough? I just got here and the number of comments in an hour is a good sign that it is a shitshow.
On to the fun!
They just keep getting better! You really love to see it.
These kinds of meme threads are always interesting
Stealing this gif for later. Thank you for your sacrifice.
o7 Let’s see if we reach the More Comments Than Upvotes threshold
It’s there now.
@MamboGator@lemmy.world @remindme@mstdn.social 1h
Looks like I already blocked most of the people who commented. The real shitshow was the friends we blocked along the way.
Surprise! It was the same handful of self-aggrandizing, self-righteous, idealistic short-sighted imbeciles that were driving all of that discussion the entire time.
Reminds me of the mass blocker and mass tagger wars
Someone on twitter created a tool that auto blocks anyone who followed at least 2 of five specific users, and found that it basically entirely shut down the gamer gaters and began spreading the tool to other users.
You can imagine that the gamergaters were less than pleased to see their harassment campaign being obstructed, and even less happy to find out how simply they could all be categorized and dismissed.
People totally underestimate how infuriated trolls get when they’re ignored. They want any attention, even negative. Just block them and move on, it works wonders.
I admire third party voters in the US, trying to bring down the 2 party system.
The thing is that unlike previous elections, this one could actually break down democracy.
Trump is going even more insane than previous elections, or even during his time in office. Calling himself “dictator for a day”. All so if he gets elected, he can just pardon himself and get rid of the huge amounts of criminal charges. He doesn’t care who he has to step on to achieve this.
All to the delight of Putin of course, it is widely known how deep Trump is in his pocket. He backs Trump so Trump can get the US to retreat from NATO, and destabilise Europe and the US so he can war further in all the Slavic countries that he considers USSR territories without issue.
That is also why we encounter so many Russia bots and shills. To make it seem the “genocide joe” issue is much bigger than it actually is.
I’d love for Biden to change his stance on sending Israel weapons, but not if it means increasing the chance of WW3.
And don’t kid yourself, WW3 will inch closer if Trump gets reelected.
Yeah. Save the “democracy” which puts the whole force of the law on you when you protest for Palestine or against Cop City.
That’s hilarious. You’re looking at the situation ion Gaza and daring to compare what’s going on in the USA with that?
I have no idea what you’re accusing me of doing, so I’m gonna say: No, I’m not.
We should do something about that. Biden has to win to do something about that. Vote for the most progressive candidates that can win.
He should do something about that.
He won’t unless we demand it. Come on, we know that. He’s not the hero in this story. He won’t lead us to a better future. But if he loses, there will be no future.
If he loses, which it seems like he’s desperately trying to do, we will continue fighting.
Uh oh, looks like someone is sharing
communistunpatrioticterroristundemocratic speech. Undemocratic speech is any time you:- Oppose fascism
- Skip an ad
- Don’t buy something
- Take the bill of rights seriously at face value
- Encourage someone else to do any of the above.
Please lie down on your stomach with your arms at your sides and someone will be along to pepper spray you and charge you with domestic terrorism shortly.
And now you’re spouting off like the Trumpers who scream that they are being silenced.
But I’m not claiming to be silenced. I’m lampooning how the US has been to live in basically for all of living memory. We talk a lot of shit about freedom, but we’re pretty embarrassing when it comes to walking the walk. We’ll shrug helplessly as private equity owned hospital put everyone in two trillion dollars of debt, but God forbid some people protest police overreach, or we’re going to police overreach the shit out of them.
I’m sorry there’s no one here by that name.
I’ve been watching self righteous self proclaimed radicals since I was in middle school. I’ll happily trade a million Abbie Hoffmans for one Thurgood Marshall.
I’ll happily trade a million Abbie Hoffmans for one Thurgood Marshall.
Who tf is this reference intended for?
Whoever needs it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbie_Hoffman
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thurgood_Marshall
You’re welcome
Hope it’s cozy in the retirement home
Go home, Russian propaganda.
Remember kids, any criticism I don’t like is propaganda.
I’m critical because we could be doing better, not just for ourselves, but the whole world. Instead, our leadership is threatening to attack the ICC if they hold Nettanyahu accountable for genocide.
No, it’s because you and your ilk only ever criticize Biden/Democrats, as though the roiling dumpster fire that is the Republican Party is beyond reproach. Don’t they control the House, and by extension the purse strings? Haven’t they held up funding for Ukraine more than once? They should be doing the same for funding for Israel, right?
Because Democrats are the only ones who will get us out of this mess, and they are failing epically.
Republicans are snakes, so why would we expect them not to slither? Im just demanding Dems act like snake wranglers for once.
My ilk? I’m actually a little curious what you think my ilk is.
I expect the republicans to be fascist pieces of shit. I’d see them swept out on their asses tomorrow if given the choice. I have higher expectations for the democrats, which is why I give them shit.
And when Biden goes around congress to fund the genocide, what then? We all know republicans are borderline fascists- there’s honestly no point in calling a spade a spade since republicans will never listen to reason anyway (and many of them are in a death cult). But democrats claim to be better than republicans, so obviously when they do shitty things, they get held to higher standards. When Ronald fucking Reagan is tougher on Israel than Biden, there’s an issue here. Hell, even Obama vetoed UN resolutions more than republicans. Reagan, in contrast, allowed 21 UN resolutions against Israel to pass. It should be clear as day that comparing Biden to Reagan screams “get higher standards”, but it seems like a huge swath of democratic voters are either too comfortable in their life to care about blood being on their hands (mixed with post 9/11 anti-arab racism) or they feel like they have a gun to their head in the form of another trump presidency.
You can’t reason with republicans about this because they literally need the genocide to happen to bring about the end times (and also a mix of white-supremacy/christofascist fueled anti-arab racism). It’s Biden who isn’t distancing himself enough from what we collectively thought was a bar only republicans and literal fascists would fall to.
Must be why Republicans are forwarding legislation that would force Biden to continue sending arms to Israel, and Biden has said he would veto such a thing.
He can say whatever he wants, but just today he’s sent $1 Billion more in funding for tanks and mortars for Israel. Actions speak louder than words.
The division on the left over Palestine has got to be the dumbest fucking shit I’ve ever seen. Talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face.
I’m sure if it wasn’t Palestine they would have picked some other hill to die on
Edited: Fat fingered my reply.
Seriously, Palestinian American here and I feel actually violated for them to be using my kin’s corpses as fetish porn for their narrative.
I have family who are Nakba victims that I haven’t been able to meet because they put everything into giving my grandfather the chance to escape, people who actually experienced the genocide first hand, and all I can see in these people wielding it as a cudgel to declare they won’t vote and nobody else should either is the same white cynical “leftism” that made Nader and Stein become the perfect catastrophes for American democracy.
Here is the single Palestinian cause, Badna N3aesh! We want to live! We want to live, both in the homeland, and everywhere else we may go, and that means you have no right to use our dead to let the ones who would kill us here too into power.
Badna N3aesh!!!
This. It’s almost like how a prominent Lemmy dev seems to believe his “struggle” is the same as a former Haitian slave. You want to talk about offensive appropriation to the point of self parody?
The idea that these privileged cynics use the corpses of heroes as a pedestal to push their agenda is absolutely disgusting.
It’s the same reason the chrisnats attached themselves to fetuses
Palestinian corpses can’t demand accountability or advocate their own interests which might not align with yours
Is that why biden loves sending billions of dollars of weapons to israel to create more Palestinian corpses?
Kinda hard for Palestinians living in Palestine to actually live when biden hands over billions of dollars in weapons for israel to bomb them. Why are you more mad at people opposed to genocide than the ones who full-throatedly support the bombing of Palestinians?
This is some Matrix level missing the point.
The point literally couldn’t have come at you any more directly, and you still dodged around it and redirected, and doubled down on the pretense that somehow this person doesn’t care about their own dead relatives, and you need to instruct them on what’s important and what they need to understand and how to look at it, and why they should get on board with your politics, otherwise they don’t care about their own dying and suffering people.
I wrote one sentence pointing out how biden’s actions run directly counter to “we want to live” and then asked a question for clarification. You jumped in and twisted yourself into a pretzel to tell me how much I’ve missed the point without actually explaining how.
Sure. So it’s not really my place to have this whole conversation, but I already did get involved, and I’m happy to give my input.
The point is that whatever’s going on with Biden, Trump is objectively worse on every single metric, including but not limited to the safety of Arabs, Palestinians, and potential victims of the American military in general, at home and abroad.
Someone who cares about dead Palestinians could absolutely try to pressure Biden to stop sending weapons to the IDF, remove Netanyahu to the ICC, or whatever they want to do. Or they could point out that Biden is a monster for continuing the US’s war criminal support for Israel, and not immediately denouncing Israel the instant they started blocking food aid or bombing hospitals. Sure. All that makes sense. If any of that is what you’re doing, and it sounds like I’m trying to disagree with it, I am not. I actually originally came in this thread complaining about the OP cartoon, because I think most of the Palestine protestors are absolutely consistent and justified and the cartoon is grossly unfair as applied to them.
The very specific and very politically motivated construction from there to “that’s why I can’t support Biden, against Trump” or “that’s why I’m not voting” or anything like that, is endangering Palestinians in Palestine, Palestinians in America, Hispanics in their home countries and in the US, Americans in the US, and many many other people, to an absolutely horrifying level.
This person is, if I am understanding them correctly, objecting very specifically to the second one. They’re asking that people stop using the suffering of them and their family and friends to try to promote a particular political agenda which actually endangers them, increasing the chance of a genocide much much worse than what’s happening right now in Gaza, while pretending that it’s a Palestinian-friendly course of action and they’re doing it because they care about Palestinians. They’re pointing out that it’s a ghoulish and dangerous thing to point to their own dead relatives and then try to use them to excuse a politics which threatens to make a lot more corpses, while pretending that it’s on their behalf.
Is that a good explanation for how?
That’s fair, but I think there’s room for disagreement on how to pressure biden and if biden is actually even better for Palestinians at all. After all, biden has been the top supporter of israel for his entire career and is the top recipient of money from pro-israel donors by a huge margin:
https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/summary?cycle=All&ind=Q05&recipdetail=S
So far biden has given israel everything they’ve wanted or needed. There is the case where he withheld weapons (but not “defensive” weapons) because of Rafah, but by that point israel already has more than enough to level the entire area and biden is already back to moving things forward for future weapon shipments. Clearly biden doesn’t feel pressured enough to truly change his ways and I don’t know how guaranteeing your vote will add pressure. I’m not saying to vote for trump, I myself will be voting for biden, but I feel like we shouldn’t telegraph guaranteed votes to biden and the democrats no matter what they do. That’s just a recipe for them taking you for granted and letting them get away with whatever they want.
@PhlubbaDubba
Fake account.
Zionism is Bidens ONLY reason for being.Palestinians know this.
https://theconversation.com/biden-says-the-u-s-would-have-to-invent-an-israel-if-it-didnt-exist-why-210172
@Zoboomafoo
Moghafil, la tu7aawilha m3aee!
The division on the left over Palestine
There is no “division on the left” over Palestine.
There’s just people who’d set America as well as global stability on fire to prove a “point” and there’s people who wouldn’t
There’s just people
who’d set America as well as global stability on fire to prove a “point”that oppose genocide and there’s people who wouldn’t.Ftfy.
Your “fixing” just changed the meaning entirely to ignore the hard truth you don’t care about. And you pretend you’re being altruistic, just to be extra disgusting I guess
I have probably one of the more controversial comments on this thread. I plan on voting for Biden, because harm reduction is the best I can realistically do in this federal election, and the other guy is very clearly worse. I encourage you to do the same just based on my own beliefs and opinions. I’m still openly critical of Biden because fuck sitting back and watching a genocide happen and saying “golly, at least he’s not Trump”. We can and should do better, and if team Biden doesn’t like it, maybe they should stop supporting genocide.
I’m genuinely curious, would you vote for Hitler as a form of harm reduction? Obviously the genocide he did was bad, but say he was running against someone else who was also planning on committing a genocide.
The Nazis put money into infrastructure development, education (granted in this context it was also indoctrination, but there was genuine education being done too), expansion of welfare; better access to healthcare, public works programs, public health policies (though again, muddied with ideas about “racial purity”).
Imagine he was running against another pro-genocide antisemite, but who was against all the welfare/public spending mentioned above, and instead wanted to deregulate the economy, causing even more material harm than the Nazis.
Would you be telling people to go out and vote for Hitler as a form of harm reduction? Is there literally no line a person/party can cross that makes them not worthy of a vote; no line that makes the system illegitimate and participation in it/implicit endorsement problematic?
Look, what you’re trying to to get at here is that by voting for one party, you’re affirming support for their policies. Perhaps the best way to frame this is that this is a little like the trolley problem, in that I can choose to do nothing and let the trolley (the US political system, in this case) run over five people people (Trump stops any finger-wagging at Nettanyahu and probably encourages a similar attack on the West Bank, as well as starts rounding up and deporting anyone with any detectable melanin levels, as well as going all in on climate change on the side of CO2, as well as whatever the fuck else who knows), or I can become a participant and pull the lever to try to make the Trolley run over one person instead (Biden’s half ass finger wagging at Nettanyahu). Is pulling the lever problematic? Yes. But I think not pulling the lever is objectively worse.
Agreed on the trolley scenario, but that’s not exactly analogous. I’ll try to make an analogy that extrapolates the principle of our current scenario to illustrate what I’m getting at.
Imagine there are 3 candidates, two major parties and a third party. Both candidates in the major parties want to nuke the planet to establish an American world government. Our guy wants to nuke 6 billion people, their guy wants to nuke 7 billion people. Polls show that the third party candidate has the same chance of winning as polls in the 2024 U.S election show. The third party candidate is against dropping nukes on the planet to establish a global America.
Do you vote for the one who wants to nuke 6 billion people as a form of harm reduction? Or is there some line that a candidate/party can cross that makes voting third party the best option, despite how unlikely they’ll win?
I’ve voted third party before; it’s a fairly meaningless gesture at best, letting the trolley run over five people while still holding the lever at worst. Imo, you’re looking at the wrong thing here. In a FPTP election system, you’re always going to end up with a two-party duopoly with voters constantly trying to play harm reduction. If you want to have a meaningful impact at the ballot box- to have our third party votes actually count for something, it requires addressing the voting system that creates these conditions. Ranked Choice Voting/ STV movements are growing in the US; I plan on joining the one in California, I suggest you do the same thing.
I understand your sentiment, but I’m curious if you’ll actually commit to the principle you are espousing. Would you actually vote for a candidate that wants to bomb “only” 6 billion people over 7 billion, instead of “throwing away” your vote for someone who doesn’t want to nuke the planet?
I came back to say that your assertion about a two party system never arriving at a “too extreme” position is 100% correct. That’s why it needs to be done away with.
Maybe I’m just not up to date on the memo, but where did the idea that criticism isn’t allowed come from?
I can’t think of any president that I haven’t criticized. Obama pissed me off immediately forgetting about his promise to close Gitmo or stop warrantless surveillance.
I’m not seeing people saying not to criticize the administration.
What people are saying is holy fuck white supremacist Christian fascists are about to instill a monarch who will hurt many, many people if they can get away with it.
It’s a pretty clear and understandable message, and its unprecedented nature over the last few centuries kind of does warrant the volume with which it is attempted to be conveyed to people who say things like “because I don’t like what the administration is doing with issue x I might not vote or will vote 3rd party.”
Not liking what the administration is saying and saying you don’t like it is the very essence of the American experience. But throwing away your vote in this century’s equivalent to the election in 1930s Germany is not just tone deaf but an active middle finger to every minority that’s going to be persecuted under gold-plated Hitler, Palestinians included.
Personal experience on Lemmy and Mastodon. Even things as trivial as criticizing the Biden campaign’s strategy for stuff like hiring high level HRC16 folks and taking their advice as anything more than a joke or their strategy of just telling people who are feeling economic strain that they’re actually just confused because everything is great has earned me all kinds of ire and claims that I’m everything from a Russian troll to a Trump supporter. Really, it pains me to see the democrats sucking this hard; I see a lot of familiar themes from '16 developing and it’s making me nervous, including how other left voters are giving me shit for having the gall to question the wisdom of the campaign.
If we’re going to win, I think it’s not going to be by repeating the HRC16 strat of hand waving all criticism with “But Trump! The election is too important!” It didn’t work last time, and I don’t think it will this time. Besides that, it’s kind of disappointing to hear what effectively amounts to “I’d love to be critical of genocide, but the election is too important.” I kinda get where they’re coming from, but at this rate, there might not be anyone in Gaza left to save by the time November gets here. We’ll just have to kick rocks and go “golly, hopefully the next genocide doesn’t happen in an election year”.
I think the issue is the people stating they won’t vote or the ones wanting to let Trump win to “just tear things down.” We don’t have near the numbers or popular will to tear things down and we didn’t have it last time Trump tore things apart. The damage he did is still being felt across the government and people just don’t understand how slowly change happens. It took the right 50 years and billions of dollars to get us here. It’s not going to change with one president or one political event.
“just tear things down”
I read that before, prolly from one of the gradbears or something, on how they didn’t mind Trump winning and going full authoritarian, because that was a chance to “hit the reset button”. Now, even with my best will I can read that as ‘revolution + new constitution’ but I cannot imagine how these people think that shit is going to go down in the USA today.
The way I see it. Biden is really choosing to die on this hill. It is irresponsible for him to support Israel when the stakes are this high.
Why is he not taking this seriously?
Why is he not taking this seriously?
He is. Support for Israel is policy, not politics. It’s not Biden supporting Israel… it’s the entire US political establishment that does.
You might just as well ask Biden to stop the US from being imperialist - no member of the US political establishment would ever do that. Period.
This is why you see liberals everywhere heeding the clarion call to pre-emptively start looking for people to blame when Biden hands over to the GOP (the “bad cop”) come November.
No I agree. The establishment is fucked. And If Biden were actually serious about beating Trump (because the stakes are rightfully so high), then he’d Buck the establishment.
Neoliberals would rather have a Dictator Trump than a Progressive Policy. Which is hilarious when the "progressive policy " is just a sign that says “no genocide”.
It’s largely orchestrated. Fascists push it because it weakens the left. Leninists/Salinists/Maoists push it because they see it as accelerationist. Which to them is a good thing, because their ideology isn’t an improvement over capitalism. They know they can only convince others to adopt it by making things worse, not better. Much the same as capitalism and mercantilism does/did.
Super well put.
The balkanization of the left has been a thing since before the Balkans themselves.
Just because someone protests an active genocide doesn’t mean they cannot also be upset about what else is wrong in the world.
Divisive cartoons like this, horse race politics, and the straw man argument of the single issue voter are all more dangerous than the youth finding their voice in political discussion.
People who make these typa posts are the same people who wouldn’t show up to a protest for any of these things
yall are actually insane if you think protesting genocide is somehow mutually exclusive from other issues, or that pressuring Biden automatically means you’re voting for Trump
Both this community and Politics have some of the dumbest party shill takes ever.
People just don’t understand that political discussions are in nature pr work. You need a good pr strategy to succeed in what you want and impulsively selected actions might be bad for your pr work. And the truth is most people don’t think about pr before posting about why XYZ is bad.
Literally the British government fucked themselves like that. They wanted to avoid responsibility and found someone to blame in their pr work. A few decades later and their country is leaving a huge market to avoid having to comply to the market’s rules, while also kinda wanting to join the market for trading and having to comply again for economically reasons (and the threat of terrorism due to north Irland)… While being unable to make it happen without splitting up the country due to people rejecting that by eu bad. So the best they can do is trade deals with little to no impact on their trading. And while everything goes so well, parts of it are looking into leaving them. Politics are pr work. If you want to have an impact, then play in the big leagues, play like it.
I guess Biden better… Earn more votes.
If the other guy being a fascist running on a platform of doing fascism isn’t enough for you to snap into line, you’re a fascist trying to feel moral about being a fascist.
Trump is denying the existence of the 13th and 19th amendments now and you’re actually still on about how politicians should have to “earn your vote?”
Tell me you’re white without telling me you’re white.
If the other guy being a fascist running on a platform of doing fascism isn’t enough for you to snap into line, you’re a fascist trying to feel moral about being a fascist.
No no, you don’t get it, if we let fascism win this time, everything will be better NEXT time!
So you’re saying voters have no power, only politicians. Cool.
34 Senate races in 2024. 20 are held by Democrats and 3 are Democratic-caucusing Independents. Eight of those 23 are fairly close–toss-ups even.
Every one of those Democratic senate candidates are going to have to be carrying Biden’s water on this one.
How patronizing is this
Dunno. How patronizing is it?
Single-issue voters are one of the biggest challenges to a functioning democracy. Planks and balance provide depth; a willingness to compromise and work to the greater good.
But that’s gone now, isn’t it. And when a Palestinian advocate candidate is running for president, who supports pro-choice, affordable housing, and every other liberal plank except they object to green-colored libraries, then fuck them because I have to have my green-painted libraries!
Single-issue voters are one of the biggest challenges to a functioning democracy.
You don’t have a functional democracy. You never have.
Compares green colored libraries to genocide… ok
I knew what was going to catch an eye. We’re taking about single issue voters - would it have been better to compare 2A to genocide? Or anti-choice? Because those are real single choice issues that even better epitomize the issue, and neither is nearly as horrible as what’s going on in Gaza; Palestine is just the most recent iteration.
And in this case, the single issue voters are making an insane decision, because he’s actively goading Israel on. If you think Biden’s weak-sauce response is bad, wait until Trump is in office: he will shift all military and financial support from Ukraine to Israel.
Netanyahu is ignoring Biden not just because Biden isn’t taking any substantive action (“strongly-worded letters!”), but because he’s knows Biden has every chance to lose to Trump and then he can start building the gas chambers.
People sitting this one out over Palestine are clueless dumb fucks. I hate Biden’s continued support of Israel in this - although I understand it as political expediency - but Trump is undeniably a worse option for Palestinians.
I’m furious about the genocide but I’m furious with our president not listening to 70% of Democrats and still supporting Israel.
Its very telling that you’re comparing the Palestinian genocide with painted libraries as if everyone else but you is mindless and can’t tell the difference between compromising on something completely serious and harmful to people versus something that’s nonsense or less of a priority.
Personally I would guess that the >50% of eligible voters who don’t vote, largely due to systemic disenfranchisement, are a bigger issue.
Another systemic issue is FPTP.
I find any solution to “fix” democracy that attacks/criticizes the individual voter to be barely valid. The solution to a systemic problem is always going to be systemic in my experience.
*Disclaimer: Not well-researched in the field, simply applying my knowledge from other areas to this. I welcome corrections.
100% agree on FPTP.
patronizing is exactly the right word holy shit :(
i am not a single issue voter and i’m highly critical of those telling me to utterly ditch the blue vote. but i am very uncomfortable with this portrayal of the pro-Palestine movement and i hope you, the reader, are too
the artist of this should feel some level of shame i think
You’re reading too much into it. The cartoon isn’t about those who support Palestine. It’s about those who make it their only issue. Ending up only hurting themselves and everyone else.
Under a cartoon representation of a quite standard-looking Palestine supporting protester.
“The cartoon isn’t about those who support Palestine.”
What textual or external evidence do you have for this? Genuinely what could I be missing here lmao? Open to correction but this sounds like you are gaslighting urself?
It’s a political cartoon. They’re visual generally not textual. So there’s at least your first problem of many. Though I think your problems are all of your own design. That you think that represents all Palestinian supporters says more about you than it does about Palestinian supporters.
But let’s analyze your own claims using your own required proofs. Where does the textually say anything you’ve implied?
Don’t bother, that dude is… A silly goose
Yes already blocked them. Such low quality trolls are always a let down.
I tagged them weeks ago as “kind of a fuckwit” in boost
erm ☝️ visual texts are very much a thing thank u 🤓 #MediaLiteracy
and im not gonna entertain any questions till u answer mine and give evidence from within the visual text or from another source that i am wrong.
identical parallel: white guy wearing a red maga hat in a political cartoon probably represents Trump supporters
your weird contrarian take that a person holding the Palestine flag in front of a tent doesn’t represent Palestine supporters is absolutely silly goofy
Your link has nothing to do with political cartoons. Could you be any more smarmy disingenuous or obvious. You can’t even defend what you said. Nor can you admit it. Worse you resort to lemmygrad posting and making shit up. Proving that you’re not engaging in good faith. The least you could do is make my name bigger on that image so people would know to laugh and ridicule you quicker.
hilarious interaction:
- i state my interpretation of a text, ask for clarification
- ”prove it to me”
- i provide a parallel example to defend my understanding
- ”you won’t even defend what you said, also i am gonna compare you to violent communists”
i am still open to evidence by the way. :) it’s insane how quickly you devolved into personal attacks tho
Nailed them in one picture. Perfectly illustrated.
Don’t worry, the folks who aren’t voting for Biden over Palestine aren’t voting for Trump either, so it balances out.
Forgot the /s
That’s a minus from Biden not from both. Trump supporters aren’t upset over Gaza.
