First let me be clear: I’m not a crazy conspiracy person (…on this) I just don’t rely on a municipal well. As far as I know adding fluoride to the private well at my houses is not a thing, good or bad. I did drink municipal water for two years when I lived on campus in college.
That said, is fluoride a benefit to adults or just children?
When I was a kid I got fluoride treatments at the dentist, but then aged out. I’ve never had a cavity in forty years, but I’d like to keep it that way. Should I still be doing it?
Also no, I’m not using the internet as a substitute for a dentist, just my next dental appointment is in four months. TIA
I’m about to install a reverse osmosis water filter because I want less PFOS (and other crap) in me. I understand this will also get rid of most of the fluoride.
I assume we’ll be fine because we brush or use fluoride mouthwash daily. But I’d like to hear if anyone thinks otherwise. I’m not opposed to fluoride in water, just wondering how much downside there is to not having it in my water when we do use fluoride otherwise.
Unless you live next to a PTFE manufacturing plant, you are not at risk of PFOS exposure.
For a municipal supply it’s worth the effort, it improves oral health for a whole community at the cost of some fluoride and a dosimeter. For a private supply it’s not worth it. Fluoridated toothpaste and mouthwash will give you a good dose of fluoride.
I grew up in a house with well water, no fluoride. I’ve had a million cavities, and my dentist suggested that was a contributing factor, although certainly diet and genetics are too.
Also, wish I had a link to the article, but I was reading about how whether you “have” a cavity depends on your dentist’s interpretation of the x-rays and their philosophy about treatment. Some dentists will see a light area and say “let’s fill that before it gets worse” and others will note it and see how things develop. It was actually pretty alarming because sounds like professional standards for dentistry are looser than some other areas of medicine, and the description rang true for some of the dentists I’ve seen.
This is definitely a thing. I mentioned no cavities, but I have had some “slight decalcification we might want to address before it gets worse” that then got better on their own.
Yeah, I would much prefer if someone framed it that way than “you have decay, let’s schedule an appointment for a filling”
Yeah, I think that’s why my dentist gave me fluoride treatments as a child. Have you gotten any as an adult?
I think I had one treatment as an adult. But a dental hygienist recommended rinsing every night with the purple Listerine that has fluoride in it, which… hasn’t hurt? I think it’s doing the trick and I haven’t had more cavities since, but of course couldn’t say for sure if that’s why.
Interesting, I get a fluoride treatment at the dentist every time. It’s just part of the thing, why I can’t eat for 45 minutes after.
Grew up in a well water house, we were prescribed fluoride pills.
First cavity came at 36
How long did you take fluoride pills, as an adult or only as a child?
I started when I was 5 and probably stopped when I was old enough to forget taking them and not be reminded to, probably around 16 or so.
I don’t recall to be honest.
Everyone, even dogs benefit from fluoride in the water. It’s not just children. Virtually all toothpaste contains it too. Some groundwater sources also contain it naturally, some even above the recommended max level from health associations. So I’d say, document yourself with official sources. Test your well levels, then decide. Be mindful that regular consumption of soft drinks, processed foods and even air conditioning nullifies the effects for cavities.
Thanks. The fluoride in the water itself is not directly relevant because I just don’t have it, but good evidence to raise the topic with my dentist as an adult. I definitely use fluoridated toothpaste.
Yeah, if it’s in toothpaste you’re getting enough.
If you wanted to add fluoride like after you doing well treatment…
I honestly don’t know if that’s a good idea, because who knows how evenly it’ll stay mixed correctly.
Like. You may end up getting a shit ton of fluoride when there’s no rain and your wells low, then barely any when it fills up.
Fluoride toothpaste is likely your best bet for consistent doses.
Makes sense. Even if its a thing I’d probably not keep up on it. My house filters have gotten embarrassingly full in my time
Yeah, I tell people I’m on well/septic even in a city because when this house was built it was before urban sprawl…
And everyone immediately says how great it is that I don’t have to pay water/sewer.
But like, I got to pump the septic, I got to service the well, I got to maintain the well pump and pressure tank, my garden hose has no pressure, have to keep up with water softener using a bunch of salt…
I’m probably not even saving money. And it’s a lot of hassle.
But it would be 10s of thousands of dollars to get it hooked up, and who knows if my 80 year old plumbing can sustain city water pressure.
Not to mention if my electric goes out, so does my water.
I’d 100% prefer city water, $20 a month ain’t shit.
Have you tried a salt free softener?
Be mindful that … air conditioning nullifies the effects for cavities.
Got any sources for that? My admittedly very brief search just turned up a bunch of stuff about ventilation and COVID/aerosols.
Dry air, dries the mouth. Dry mouth is sensible to cavities.
I understand that air conditioning removes some moisture from the air, but just how much of an effect does it actually have on oral moisture? I was hoping to find some sort of studies with actual measurements of some sort.
It does sound like some armchair reasoning rather than observation or study.
I moved to Germany in my late 20’s and lived there for 2 years. I went with perfect teeth; I returned with several cavities. My brushing habits did not change, and while you could blame my cavities on several factors (the food was different; I drank way more beer; I got two years older), I’ve always attributed it to the fact that Germany does not fluoridate their municipal water - and everyone drinks bottled water anyway. At least, the crowd I ran with did. It’s been years, but as I remember, you didn’t get water at restaurants unless you asked, and then if you did, you got bottled water. In any case, I went from drinking fluoridated water regularly to zero flouride except what was in the toothpaste. And, honestly, I don’t remember paying much attention to which toothpaste I bought, and many don’t have flouride in them.
So, yeah. It’s just one anecdote, and there could have been many other factors, but it convinced me about the importance of flouride. Now we drink municipal water (US), but it’s going through a whole-house triple filtration system and I don’t know how much flouride we’re getting. So in addition to the usual tooth care (brushing, flossing) I also rinse with a flouride mouth rinse, and I’ve been doing OK dentally.
Thanks.
I hadn’t thought of a fluoridated mouthwash but that looks obvious in hindsight.
Well, it’s different. On the one hand, you’re not getting flouride into your system; on the other, you’re not getting flouride into your system.
I really don’t know if flouride ingested makes its way to your teeth, or how much difference it makes if it does. But I’m not about to start self-medicating with the stuff, so rinse it is.
I believe the effect is entirely topical, it just doesn’t hurt to ingest a little too. The fluoride ions trigger re-hardening of the tooth enamel and can take the place of missing calcium in the outer enamel structure, but those only happen when they hit the outer enamel in your mouth, you don’t regrow enamel on fully formed teeth
The scientific concensus is certainly ‘Yes’, but my own personal experience backs that up. I struggled with cavities well into my 30s, especially while at college where I mostly drank distilled water I bought in jugs at the grocery store (the local water supply had frequent issues I was trying to avoid). At some point, my dentist put me on a high-fluoride toothpaste, and the cavities basically stopped. The extra fluoride seems to have a definitive effect for me.
Too late now but I don’t think you’re supposed to drink distilled water. It lacks the minerals your teeth and body need.
It’s worse than that, RODI water as it is just pure H2O it’s desperate to bond to anything it can so it grabs minerals from your body as it passes through.
You don’t drink it straight, you make coffee with it. That extra grabby power passing through coffee grounds makes a noticeable difference.
Are you telling me there’s a way for me to become more of a coffee snob?!
Edit: Google says it’s not this way and makes for weak coffee.
Check out 3rd Wave Water, you can take coffee snobbery to heights you’ve never imagined…
Unpublished Data from when I worked summers in a lab for grad students disagrees with Google.
We tested distilled, RO, DI versus tap water. We were going to see about the double-distilled water but the supervising professor caught us. Apparently “That shit was too expensive for your shenanigans!”
It sounds like it would be good to drink a glass or so every week just to help prevent kidney stones right? Or am I Way off the Mark here. I feel like I’m way off the Mark here, but somebody please confirm if I am not off the mark okay?
No, it pulls everything out of your system and causes deficiencies. It shouldn’t be drunk at all.
There’s a limit to what it can pull though, right? If you have excess minerals in your body, it seems it would help eliminate them, kind of like chelation, right?
My teeth were getting increasingly sensitive. I switched to a special toothpaste and it helped but only a little. my dentist started giving me annual fluoride treatments, similar to the ones I got as a kid, and that did the trick.
My dentist says most Americans stop getting fluoride treatments at age 12 not because their adult teeth don’t benefit from it, but because our shitty insurance system simply doesn’t cover it as a preventative treatment. So with tooth pain, I have a diagnosis for which fluoride is a covered treatment.
Obligatory “do your own research” and don’t listen to random internet stranger’s dentist’s claim.
Thanks. I’ll definitely be asking my dentist just a while until my next appointment
Fluoride is great in toothpaste. Kills the germs and sterilises the gums.
I fought our Council to stop fluoride being added to our water here in Southampton in the UK about 10 years ago. I asked questions about whether gastrointestinal doctors had been consulted and what the effects were on the rest of the body, the bones etc. Nobody could answer. At the time I found that worrying. I am pro-vaccination, pro-science. I pointed out the severe lack of dentists that even kids dont any longer have access to at the time (it has since become far worse). Without actual dentists people lose the influence they provide as well as the treatment.
Chlorine chemistry is added to water to treat the water. Fluorine is added to treat the person. And to me that sounded like medication with no opt out (other than moving home). People should have a right to chose what they dont want to put in their bodies, even if it is technically slightly harmful in the long term (even nutrients). Science is learning that over sterilisation of other parts of the body (eg the skin) can affect the health. What we need is far, far more data on those that do have these water additions to see what happens to the populations health.
Fluoride does not kill or sterilize anything. It reacts with enamel (hydroxyapetate) to convert it to a stronger version (hydroxyfluorapatite).
People who want their enamel to be softer and wear through are welcome to drink bottled water.
I am already paying for water - through my water bill. I have a right to as clear a water as possible. And fluoride is technically a sterilising agent - fluorine and chlorine are right next to each other in the periodic table.
I’ve never heard of floride treating a well. But wouldn’t it be better to add floride after the filter etc, for more consistent dosage?
I would think so. I use fluoridated toothpaste, and another commenter recommended fluoridated mouthwash.
Seems like the answer is yes and I’ll be discussing it with my dentist.
There’s a Sawbones episode on fluoride and its effects on teeth (and why it’s good for you), if you like to be educated and entertained at the same time, I highly recommend listening to it! Great podcast.
And yes, fluoride is good for adult teeth, too.
Swede here. I’m a bit confused by the whole flouride thing in the US.
We don’t add flouride in the water. At least not in amounts needed to get better tooth health.
Almost everyone users toothpaste with fluoride. The concentration is 1000ppm in toothpaste for children (below 6 years of age) and 1450ppm in toothpaste for children (6 years and older) and grown-ups.
We also used to have mandatory sessions with the “fluoride lady” in school. We all had to bring our toothbrush to school and got to dip it in a fluoride solution (mouthwash I presume) and brush our teeth while the fluoride lady pointed at a large scale model of teeth and gums. All kids were a little bit afraid of the fluoride ladies. I’m not sure if it’s still mandatory today, but I think a lot of schools (1st to 3rd grade maybe?) still has this on the schedule once a year.
Sweden has got a history of focus on tooth health since we have cheap healthcare (was free 50 years ago. Times are harder now so we pay $10-$13 per night at a hospital. Life is so hard! 😉) and bad tooth health is the cause of a lot of other health issues. Which in the end would cost our state medical insurance a lot more than fixing tooth health.
For the one with waaaaat too much time on their hands, Sweden has done some pretty dark shit in the name of “for the greater good”. Google a documentary about the Vipeholm experiments if you want to know more about one of the reasons to how the world knows so much about tooth decay.
The answer is yes. This is becoming another stupid culture war initiated by the right over something that is essentially settled science. Fluoride in the water supply is not just fine, it’s good for your teeth. I am not mad at you for asking this question. I am mad that this has become enough of an issue to sow this kind of doubt.
We have data consisting of over half a century of literally every American who has drank from the tap - so over 99% of Americans - supporting it.
Even if we conceded more research needed to be done, which I am not conceding because we know a lot about it already, then by now because of the sheer number of people who have consumed it regularly we would have evidence to the contrary. Which we don’t. Much like with how if the vaccines were as dangerous as anti-vaxxers claimed we would know by now due to the sheer population of people that have already had it in their system for years
Have you ever seen Dr Strangelove?
This is by no means a new form of stupidity.
Many many times
Wow, that does sound political!
Again, I’m not at all talking about additives to municipal water. That’s clearly good. Just since my houses don’t have it I’m curious if there’s a missed opportunity for better.
Seems like “yes but small” given already using fluoridated toothpaste
Appreciate the cool head responding to me. I was probably a little more worried about subtext than I needed to be! I’ve just seen a massive surge in skepticism around fluoride lately and it has me concerned.
You can always add a fluoride mouthwash to your routine if you’re worried.
Here in Germany, fluoride is mandated by law to be added to table salt, so I assume it is good to have in general.
However, regular toothpaste as well as many mouthwashes contain fluoride. In particular, they can contain a much higher dosis, because you spit it back out, so if you’re worried about your teeth, these are definitely the way to go.
Here in Germany, fluoride is mandated by law to be added to table salt, so I assume it is good to have in general.
Isn’t that iodine?
Both exists, and salt can have both. Fluor in the salt is quite specific to Germany and a few other countries though.
Interesting! Thanks
Hmm, yeah, seems like only iodine is actually mandated by law. My table salt does have fluoride, but apparently that’s an optional add-on.
I believe, I rarely see salt without fluoride in the shops, but that could be a regional thing (other regions might have more fluoride naturally in their tap water).
Very interesting! I’ve never heard of adding fluoride to table salt, but I can’t see why not!
You can also find table salt with folic acid (vitamin B9) here, and apparently sometimes also with selenium.
And yeah, quite interesting to me, too, to read up on this. I always thought, table salt is NaCl + the legally mandated additives. I guess, they do throw in these additives to give themselves a unique selling point.
And that works for me. Will look out for table salt with iodine, fluoride and folic acid on my next shop visit.
This is the wrong question.
You should be asking, “While flouride helps other people, does it hurt me or is it all-good?”
Because, really, that’s the only part that matters.
Not really. Since it isn’t in my well no matter what I do, the effects of fluoride in water aren’t relevant to my question.
But the consensus in the comments is that fluoride in my toothpaste and maybe mouthwash is sufficient, and having fluoride treatments as a child but not as an adult makes sense.
