If a topic keeps coming up no matter how much you try to censor it, consider that it’s not going away. Some changes are long overdue.
What’s with the vegan hate? Leave that shit at Reddit.
Nobody really hates vegans specifically, idgaf what you eat. But when they go holier-than-thou about my choice of calories I’m gonna block.
Mr. Militant is an obvious troll account and shouldn’t be taken seriously
is an obvious troll account
is an extremely common tactic for silencing a voice.
You block who you want. Don’t try to affect my block list.
Read all the comments in this thread that say “OP” next to the user. I don’t call people “trolls” very quickly because most of the time that’s wrong, statistically. But they are either a troll or— more likely— an annoying militant vegan.
You do realize these are two separate groups of mods for each sub right?
There is no monolithic “Lemmy Mods” or even “Lemmy Admins”.
Even when you’re right it’s kind of on you to present your message in a way people will be receptive to
If someone is being a bigot, should they not be shamed for it? Why should I feel like I have to tip-toe around animal abusers? You’re the one doing the wrong thing. Would you adopt a vegan lifestyle if I presented my message in the way you approved of?
I’m already a vegetarian, but yeah, I think you can definitely have a shot at converting people if you appeal to their values and don’t attack them personally. I have a buddy who converted after watching a documentary because he’s an enviromentalist and the documentary talked about the environmental harm that comes from the livestock industry.
Baby steps, maybe just start by giving peope some easy and delicious vegetarian meals. I’m not even vegetarian but around 30 percent of my meals are vegetarian. Granted, I’m Mexican and we have a lot of really good vegetarian meals but still.
Assuming you’re not trolling, yes. The backfire effect is a proven psychologically studied phenomenon. Arguing at people with facts and logic and aggression tends to reinforce their original beliefs. https://effectiviology.com/backfire-effect-facts-dont-change-minds/
Ironically, telling you this will likely not convince you due to said effect.
Sorry, but the backfire effect hasn’t actually been proven, even under favorable circumstances. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7462781/
Ironically, telling you this will likely not convince you due to said effect.
Noooo how dare you prove me wrong!
Lol thanks for the info.
If someone is being a bigot, should they not be shamed for it
Absolutely.
Why should I feel like I have to tip-toe around animal abusers?
Nice of you to use your own bigotry as an example to illustrate what people should be shamed for.
Would you adopt a vegan lifestyle if I presented my message in the way you approved of?
Depends: would I have to adopt the religious fundamentalist level holier than thou bigotry as part of the lifestyle? Because I actually prefer not to be an insufferable ass to those that don’t deserve it.
It seems like you want people to examine their long held beliefs and customs, adopt your view that they are harmful and unethical, and change their behavior to match yours. A change that may have specific hurdles unknown to you for every individual.
Humans, being social animals, don’t typically react with reason to things that they percieve to be antagonistic. They tend to mirror hostility and are most likely to fight or disengage when facing an opponent, and cleave to the safety of the groups that accept them.
Just or not, the act of starting an interaction sets the tone. You’re completely justified in attacking villains and shaming them, but when you throw a devil costume on someone I don’t think you should be surprised when you get pitchforked.
Sometimes it’s just venting, looking at vegancirclejerk groups/forums. Not every comment from a vegan about veganism is an attempt at activism, sometimes we’re just fed up with carnist bullshit and vent. If a carnist sees it and it makes them think, cool, but that’s not always the goal.
Uh oh don’t say anything negative about Lemmy or else you’ll be screamed at and downvoted by the copium crew. Let this post be evidence of that when as it gets downvoted.
Q: How do you know someone is vegan?
A: Don’t worry, they’ll tell you.
How do you know an animal abuser is in the room? Don’t worry, they either won’t shut up about bacon, or they’ll make the same bland anti-vegan jokes that were old 20+ years ago.
You’re fighting the good fight, don’t worry about the pushback. If you have a choice, regular meat-eating in Western society is one of the most selfish, deluded things a person can do and future generations (if we even make it that far) will look back on those people, myself included, the same way we look at antivaxxers.
Guess I’ll consume some more meat while I can then
Genuine question: how do you see this response as different than rednecks in lifted trucks saying things like “guess I’ll roll more coal for every Prius I see”?
Well I ofcourse wont be increasing how much I eat just because of some very vocal random vegans. Just wanted to write an equally belligerent message.
Then let me rephrase my question again, how is your original reply any different than rednecks in lifted trucks who say “Well, I’m gonna have to roll as much coal as I can until it’s illegal,” when people point out the direct environmental harm that their cars have on the environment? The effects of the meat industry w/r/t climate change are well-established and indefensible.
It’s okay to acknowledge that there are some major hurdles for many people with switching to a meatless or meat-reductive diet (I even pointed out that I’m in no way a vegan or vegetarian in my top comment), but your smug response to the very real concerns of the meat industry as “welp, guess I’ve just got to eat as much meat as possible before it’s illegal or kills us all hurr hurr” comes across as incredibly ignorant and conservative. If I’m misunderstanding the message of your reply, please correct me, but I really don’t think I am.
A most peculiar phenomenon unfolds. Here we observe the aggressive vegan in their natural habitat. Watch closely as this complex social interaction escalates. Here, the aggressive vegan, a creature driven not just by dietary preference but a fierce moral compass that points invariably to the nearest source of conflict over animal rights. Listen closely to the ranting “Listen up! The vegan empire is taking over! We demand organic arugula and broccoli for everyone—resistance is useless. Accept our leafy greens now! They are the spearhead of a new era of dietary purity!”
These kinds of jokes are only funny if there is a kernel of truth to them. But no one talks about bacon unpromted.
I consume the web in 4 languages. Even BEFORE going vegan I saw unprompted meat comments on literally any video/recepie, in those 4 languages, that didn’t have meat on it from vegan/healthy creators. For years. I can bet you 69k tons of my own spit you will find similar comments yourself if you look out for them rn.
Yeah, I’m pretty sure these people are trolls.
But have you every actually seen anyone in real life just randomly talk to you about bacon or meat as a dietary choice out of the blue? I haven’t.
I think the key difference is that there is hardly anyone that sees eating meat as definining trait of their personality or some moral position. It’s just food and not something you center your life around. That’s very different for a good portion of vegans.
Even the people who center their life around food don’t talk about it unprompted.
Except vegans
But no one talks about bacon unpromted.
Kevin’s wife does. His agent too.
Speaking of, did you know that my Bacon Number is 3?
I was in a movie with Henning Mikkelsen > the dad of Mads Mikkelsen > in King Arthur with Ray Stevenson > in Jayne Mansfield’s Car with Kevin Bacon.
Edit: fixed bizarre autocorrect of “Kevin” to “Levon” 😄
That’s definitely untrue. Carnists never shut up about bacon.
And are these carnists in the room with us right now?
Bacon.
reads username
😐
hahaha so true, except when its not.
Vegans = fascists of the food world. Follow my diet or I will harass you.
That is not a good technique to sway people’s attitudes
If I use a technique that you approve of, will you stop abusing animals?
No, due to my medical issues. Not everyone can eat the same diet. We should reduce our wasted food which would make a huge dent in the number of animals for food.
Do you not consider the inputs that go into raising animals for food to be a waste? Way more calories go into feed than come out as meat.
I consider humans a waste. Vegan = facist that doesn’t take into account peoples culture, economic status, health, or the other myriad ways we are destroying each other and the planet. Reduce waste, stop having children
I’ll have you know that for the past 16 years of my life i have subsumed off of nothing but raw puppy and avacado and i can now summon lightning, fly, and I have telekinesis
Veganism is just as political as Linux, and just as annoying when people evangelize it.
This
I use Arch and am vegan. Now that I established my superiority, you are fucking wrong!
I bet I know what sort of socks you wear
Of course I go sockless in these bad boys
Have you considered maybe your “participation” is just insufferable even if it weren’t blatantly bad faith?
Uh oh, you don’t agree with something on the Internet, better delete it
Yeah, bad faith participation is awesome if you have an excuse.
Ohh “Everything I don’t agree with is bad faith,” the sequel to the original, nice.
I do appreciate how they built on the narrative but tried to keep it interesting
Something y’all need to realise is that commenting “Abusing animals is literally H*tler and you should be publicly executed for eating a chickenburger” is not going to turn someone vegan. Go look for smarter ways, god damn it.
I’ve never understood why vegans, the ones the vast majority agree are doing something at least good (even if you don’t understand it’s a moral obligation), are the ones that have to cater to the genocidal masses.
Stop and think for a second, imagine you live in a wild, wild world where the vegan position is actually correct. Imagine that you’re a vegan, and those around you are actually supporting an unjustified animal holocaust. Then think about how your critique of vegans comes off. It’s the genocidal maniacs complaining about how they’re treated unfairly on the internet because sometimes someone attacks their delicate sensibilities.
It’s not my responsibility to engage with you in such a way that makes you a better person. Your own failings are your own, and my failings are my own. My failings are I sometimes make someone on the internet a bit sad, and yours are participating in a market demanding tens of billions of animal deaths every year, a quantitative level of suffering we’ve never seen before.
Because acting like a self righteous douchebag turns people off and hurts your movement. That’s counterproductive.
It’s more counterproductive to be a non-vegan and try to convince nobody. I’ve had a good deal of success convincing people to go vegan. There are definitely vegans that are more successful than me, but you want to know who is always less successful? Non-vegans who rage online about vegans.
They should be the focus of our criticism, both in their own actions, and even as a broader strategy for enacting change.
Weak argument while standing on your subjective high ground, morality is a compass. Forcing people to follow your values is in most peoples view is immoral. Veganism is cult trying to shame people and scream at them for being wrong. No different than a religion trying to force their morals on you. Also trying to force people to a specific diet is wrong, that is not taking into account individuals health.
It’s more about ethics than morality. You agree that violence is a bad thing? Good. So there is no reason these rules don’t apply to animals, since many of them can feel in a similar way humans do.
I didn’t force anyone to follow anything, but the state does and you view that as a good thing. It should be illegal to abuse and kill dogs & cats, we can agree on that obvious truth. Your inability to see how that translates to pigs/cows/chickens is just irrationality/stupidity, nothing else.
I’ve had a ton of conversations on the nature of normative truths. Rehashing it over and over again with pseudo-expressivists online is annoying, mostly because you all have actually no background in philosophy, so it’s like talking to a bunch of philosophy 101 students who have never given this more than a cursory thought.
You should look into the basis of knowledge, study a bit of epistemology. You’ll find the foundations for all truths, normative or descriptive, are quite similar. They’re all fundamentally based in axioms.
I didn’t force anyone to follow anything, but the state does and you view that as a good thing.
What state is forcing a diet on you?
Also: Long comments filled with malapropisms and in sesquipedalian manner doesn’t give me the best confidence that you actually know wtf you’re talking about.
Feel free to correct me, most (or dare I say all) people aren’t born omniscient, so sometimes we misuse words or phrases. I’m not sorry to admit that I’m sometimes incorrect about things, I used to be a staunch non-vegan for example.
what state is forcing a diet on you
The dog and cat meat trade prohibition act in 2018 in the U.S outlaws the slaughter and trade of dog/cat meat, in effect banning it as a diet.
I’d be more than happy with this exact same legislation being passed, but just for chickens/cows/pigs/etc. too. If you don’t think that this is prohibiting a diet, sure. Let’s just ban the slaughter/trade of cow/pig/chicken meat and say we found a good compromise.
Also I’d go as far to claim malapropisms don’t exist. There is no “incorrect” use of a word. I’m not a prescriptivist. Language is about communicating ideas, and I know everything I’ve said would make sense to a great deal of people I know.
Maybe something doesn’t make sense to you, maybe because we learned different definitions or usages of some word or phrase. Neither of us are wrong, we’ve just hit a language barrier. This is uncommon in English, but actually happens quite regularly in Europe even with two people speaking “the same language”.
Our best example of this is going from American -> British English, but it can happen within the same “dialect” too.
Now there are obviously times where you try to adopt some language someone else has, and misunderstood it, so your usage aligns with essentially nobody else’s (so the word has lost all function). I know that’s not the case with what I’m saying because I’ve had these types of conversations with enough people who have understood me, but I’m fine humoring you, and still interested where the clash/miscommunication happened.
Gibberish, complete incoherent gibberish. Still trying to force your morality on others by belittling them. Udder nonsense from an extremist.
I understand this response, it must be emotionally hard to be challenged in such a concrete and decisive way, with no rational response available to you. I see this most commonly from carnists and religious people. In politics people don’t tend to literally fall into “LALALALA” and plugging their ears like you have, but certain social conditioning (namely church and other forms of normalized structural violence) cause people to go into a defensive panic.
Good luck on learning anything in your life, honestly.
I agree with many of the sentiments of vegans. However living in a city filled with militant vegans has turned me off supporting them, that is an emotional response based on my lived experience. All the gibberish you spouted can go right back at you as your diatribe shows your own bias as well. So keep claiming superiority it won’t sway people with all your superior knowledge. If you know so much try a tactic that is more supportive instead of belittling people.
A small sidenote too about your advice, I appreciate you trying to help, but I’m actually happy with how many people I’ve converted and continue to convert to veganism. I’d even bet good money that I’ve converted more people to veganism than you.
If you find a tactic that converts more than a few dozen people per year, let me know, but out of the two of us I probably have more actual real world experience converting people to veganism, given I’m the vegan activist, and you should consider that a vegan activist might know more about vegan activism than a non-vegan.
At least consider it as a possibility, my friend.
Knowledge isn’t bad, and I’m aware of where I’m knowledgeable and where my limits are. I tend to be quite a bit more knowledgeable about philosophy than the average person, most people don’t introspect or read about where truth comes from. They often don’t even know or understand what an axiom is, even though they’re foundational to how we live.
If that’s all too much for you, you can literally just disregard my latter two paragraphs before you went into your defensive panic. I don’t (usually) need to get into the idea of normative truths to justify veganism, because ironically we live in a country of “animal lovers”, many of whom would happily literally kill dog abusers. I’ve unironically met non-vegans that advocate for the fucking death penalty for people who abuse dogs.
That amount of dissonance, to advocate for actual death for humans who abuse animals, while themselves literally paying for animal abuse, is sufficient to dismantle people’s entire preconception of animal rights and worth. If we happened to live in a society without massive hypocrites, where people consistently held that abusing and torturing all “lesser” animals was okay, I’d have to get into more nuanced discussion about the nature of truth to help people get to veganism.
Just stop and think for a second. We’re talking about posting in meme communities. Meme communities are for lighthearted jokes, not serious discussions and berating people.
I think Christianity does a lot of harm to the world. But posting anti-Christian memes in a generic meme community is in incredibly poor taste, no matter how valid I feel about my views.
Dark humor is a real thing, and it’s fine and even cathartic for a lot of people. Joking about fascists, genocide-enablers, etc. is something some people find in poor taste, while others find it cathartic. Neither is wrong.
And something y’all need to realise that 90% of vegans don’t think like that.
Read OP’s comments. OP does think like that which is exactly the problem.
I come here for the memes, not to be berated for being an “animal abuser”. Memes are supposed to be lighthearted.
I have no problem with vegans. I have problems with militant vegans like OP. Just like I have a problem with anyone trying to radically shove their beliefs down my throat, no matter what topic it might involve.
While I agree, I am also not sure why vegans are being singled out for this, since I see memes and post shoving leftist politics down people’s throats constantly, and not just in political channels.
It seems that for most people, the throat shoving is only a problem when they disagree with the content, and there are a lot less vegans on Lemmy than leftists.
The ones that do are really fucking loud and make the rest of you look bad. I’m in the same boat, being an atheist.
I imagine that 90% aren’t getting their memes deleted.
90% of the vegans I encounter are the preachy ones making posts online. The vegans that aren’t like that don’t usually shout about being vegan and call for the death of “carnists” (BTW: there already is a word for meat eater so I don’t know why they had to make another one).
Some animals are carnivores, but they don’t want to draw attention to that. Also, humans aren’t carnivores. We’re omnivores.
I prefer “bloodmouth”
Isnt that what literally happens everywhere all the time in different context? ‘arabs beat their wives they are evil’, ‘indigenous people take halucinogenic drugs they are evil’, ‘russians kill and rape civilians they are evil’. Usually it is the strong that force their beliefs on the minorities, fortunately you cant force people to eat meat by law.
Vegans (well, this kind) would have to be smart to do that. But they’re not, they’re cultists and will accept literally any argument or statement that supports their cause, no matter how stupid. Fundamentalist Christians and militant atheists are like that too.
So, are we hoping this gets deleted as well to keep the tradition alive, or is this hopefully going to change moderation? I’m confused on how to feel about this.
I’m just going to keep posting anti animal abuse content and eventually enough people are going to do the same until it becomes too hard to ignore.
No. You’re delusional to think that “eventually” is ever going to become reality. Not tomorrow, not in your whole lifetime.
You’re not hard to ignore–actually, you’re pretty easy to ignore at proven by both groups of moderators.
It’s like people who say desktop Linux is currently good enough to be mainstream for everyone, and it will any day now, please? And that it’s everyone else’s fault that it hasn’t, they’re just lazy and afraid or something.
It’s not hard to ignore. I ignore lots of stuff on Lemmy. There are many topics where there is no point to say what I think since people have strong opinions and won’t change their minds.
With time you will also learn that posting things on social media doesn’t change anyone’s opinion.
You come from a good place but unfortunately you can’t change what people do in their lives. Like at all. Nothing.
I ignore like 80+ NSFW communities, there’s a whole button for it. Super easy.
I think you’re forgetting that we can just block you and never see any of your posts again.
Veganism is like religion. As long as you keep it to yourself I couldn’t care less. But if you make it your personality or proselytize about it then I’ll probably think it’s fun to make fun of you for it.
Thing is, most people WOULD CARE if I treat a dog, cat, or any other cute animal the same way as dairy/meat industry does. Why doesn’t the “as long as you keep it to yourself” argument count in this case (might not be for you but for most people)?
It’s about philosophy/ethics and not religion.
Yeah, just like other kinds of animal abuse. I can’t stand anyone who speaks out against puppy mill, dog fighting, killing race horses, elephants in circuses, bear bile farming, the fur trade, poaching etc.
Like get a fucking life, they’re just there to be used. If you want to be some goody two shoes and give a shit about orangutans or whatever fine, be a stupid Puritan but don’t you dare try and stop me from setting up monkey knife fights.
Edit: wtf? aren’t we in agreement? You can’t criticise what someone does for pleasure or a living with animals. No ethical consumption anyway. Why the hell is my circus worse than your steakhouse? we’re both doing it for entertainment.
It’s much more like politics than it is religion. People take a stance because of their values, ethics, mortality, etc (as opposed to religion which is generally a more irrational basis for belief). And the reasons for being loud about it follow from that.
So if you can understand why someone might proselytize about the situation in Gaza, then you should also understand why someone might proselytize for veganism, even if your views might align differently for different issues.
But we’re all evil because eating animals is abuse and that’s all there is to it, and they can’t abide our evil. /s
In seriousness, the reason people try spread vegan ideas is the exact same reason people try spread their political ideas: because they believe there is injustice in the world which they are trying to help fix.
I don’t think you’re evil. I think that like almost all vegans you were raised to be complicit in an evil system. You were fed propaganda, discouraged from questioning norms, had behaviours reenforced as wholesome and good from before you were even a conscious person.
I think you’re wrong, I think what you do is deeply harmful, I don’t have any respect for hiding from the truth, refusing to engage, and bad faith replies but I don’t think you’re evil.
Was every man who denied women votes evil? everyone involved in every war of aggression? every slaver that ever was? every bureaucrat of empire? They were wrong, selfish, engaged in motivate reasoning, and harmful. Some were probably evil, most were probably a little lazy or a little stupid. Unfortunately that’s all atrocity takes.
Aren’t there different mods for each community? What was the meme that was deleted?
If a topic keeps coming up no matter how much you try to censor it, consider that it’s not going away. Some changes are long overdue.
With a topic so white hot that it can’t be ignored you should consider starting @VeganMemes
I don’t like the fact that vegans are always pushed into forming echochambers. Everybody else needs to take a hard look and recognize that maybe not abusing animals isn’t so radical after all.
I dont like the fact that I don’t post anything about my balanced diet but vegans always have to virtue signal their “better ways”
There is no shortage of resources to help a person transition.
Yeah see this right here, nobody is looking for your advice on how to go vegan because we don’t care about your diet and you shouldn’t flame people about their’s.
You were banned for being a tool, not being vegan. Get it straight.
I agree with you. However for future reference: veganism ≠ plant based diet. It’s more nuanced than that. Not all vegans stick to plant based food and not all plant based people are vegans. Hence, diet is not the main attribute of veganism.
A more educated way of being dismissive is I don’t care about your morals or philosophy or ethics or lifestyle or worldview or principles.
Lmao Vegans can’t even stand being in a community with other Vegans.
Oh damn lol
they totally can actually. i get along completely fine with vegan and non-vegan ppl in my life. why cant u?
Did you post a meme about cow farts contributing to climate change or something?
would that be a reason for it to be removed by a mod?
