I’m going to guess good old days is probably more possibility of getting a job that provided you with enough income to also buy a house and live comfortably. Maybe not have to take out decades long loans if you are able to get a mortgage and not get into massive debt if you decide to pursue education, and it actually made you stand out due to there not being a huge over saturation of university grads.
Assuming based off what is considered a failure according to The Simpsons during the early seasons. Homer the big failure making enough single income to have a two story home and car and kids and a dog and cat off a high school education with a regular salary man job. And the baby boomers with their properties.
HOUSE
hi, I only see the negative parts of life, and am impossible to enjoy things around
Aesthetically anyway, I’ll take the Showa era over the modern era.
This pretty much sums up the state of things. The entire past has now been labeled as “the dark ages”, from which we’ve just recently crawled.
Everything an old person says is instantly ignored and “handled” by formulaic responses invoking the pure evil that is all things past.
Want to discuss poetry? Don’t forget our emergence from the oppression of the past.
Want to discuss recipes for chocolate chip cookies? Don’t forget our emergence from the oppression of the past.
Oh were you talking about old cars? Don’t forget our ongoing emergence from the oppression of the past.
It’s a broken record posing as a heroic worldview.
Everything an old person says is instantly ignored and “handled” by formulaic responses invoking the pure evil that is all things past.
recently learnt about the term “thought terminating cliche” -
The sad thing is what they really miss is reasonable restrictions on industry and capitalism, a viable chance to support a family on a single full-time salary, and upward mobility, but rather than getting mad at the greedy capitalist assholes that have stolen these things from them, instead they let these exact same greedy assholes trick them into thinking that minorities and disempowered peoples are somehow the ones stifling progress.
The yearning for better days isn’t inherently wrong, it’s the conclusions they draw where they go astray.
You’re exactly right - the problem is that the people who always talk about the good old days are the ones who are yearning for a more white and more male world. And they don’t really care that those days weren’t good because of the whiteness and maleness; they were good because unions were strong and taxes on the rich were high, etc. which bolstered and strengthened the middle class.
You’ve nailed the part where people (including people in this thread) are talking past each other. I’ll repeat it for those in the back:
that those days weren’t good because of the whiteness and maleness; they were good because unions were strong and taxes on the rich were high
We can have both.
You aren’t exactly wrong, but it is a little bit of what you say and what’s in the cartoon.
As a gay elder-millennial I have experienced almost the entire narrative of what these folks consider the bad new days they fought against and what the good old days should be like.
Literally they want me not to exist. They don’t even necessarily hate me, but they just don’t want me to be represented in any form they have to deal with.
I think the same is true regarding women’s rights and people of color to an extent.
Make no mistake, the extreme ones want you dead and the less extreme ones that don’t will stay silent.
The same is true for people with disabilities.
Nudge Squidfish has a captivating account of growing up in the Midwest c. 1970. Yeah, he could get on a bus from Columbus to Nashville with no money and no contacts, and somehow make it. Even for teenagers, all drugs except alcohol were at least tolerated, if not flat-out legal, and STDs were not a thing (he claims). But still there was a lot of racism, plus constant violence and fights everywhere, and God forbid you came out as gay - the kids would smash your head right in. Lots of teenage pregnancies. Also, you couldn’t have sex at home, apparently it was actually illegal for your parents to “enable” it. So there had to be a lot of sex in public places - there was a forest in Columbus nicknamed “Finger Forest” because all the couples went there to… you know…
I feel like I should compose a hand written apology with a fountain pen and a well of my own blood for having the common indecency of being born in the before times.
Not at all. Normal people gravitate toward social progress and improvement of the human condition. Conservatives do not.
If you are kind, introspective and care about others, you are normal. No apologies are needed at all.
You can talk shit all you want about fuel efficiency but fins on cars was the peak of pure automotive design.
And I will fight you over this.
I know it’s not the same thing as what you mean, but my CR-Z has a tiny shark fin on top which I believe serves as the antenna, and it’s one of my favorite things about it. More fins on cars, please.
Oh I’m not picky, antenna fins are true car fins and they definitely are aesthetic.
The CRZ is a beautiful car.
I’d settle for going back a couple decades to entirely tactile controls and no touch screens in cars
What do you mean, “going back a couple decades?” I never stopped driving cars from the '90s!
When Russia seemed like it could become a sane nation.
When each decade had a distinctive style in clothing, music, etc.
When movies had feelings.
When social media wasn’t.
When each new generation of computers doubled the performance.
When Donald Trump was just a washed up businessclown.
When Israel hadn’t been created yet.
When the population crisis in west was just a future problem.
When men wore wigs and pantyhoses.
When the climate crisis was just a future problem.
–
Plenty of reasons to yearn some parts of yesterdecades in 2024.
I too yearn for 10 million bce.
Fear not! Judging by the pictures I’ve seen online, men can still wear wigs and pantyhoses. And makeup, and pink colors and high heels.
Don’t overpolitizise everything. Everyone romanticizes the time of their youth.
Not me. If I was born a decade earlier I would have died before I was twenty. A decade later, I would not have had to have so much of my body removed. Medical technology progresses at a remarkable pace.
Eh, there are things I like and lots of things I dislike about my youth. I think if you think everyone romanticizes it, you’re probably not someone who had a horrible time. The youth of my half sister is one of almost constant abuse, mostly mental, some physical. About the only enjoyable stuff she thinks about youthwise may be some of the shows she saw. Her gifts from her mom were stolen by her stepmother to give to her stepmother real kids etc. I wasn’t there for that as I lived with my mother instead of my father, inside a religious cult where I also got abused but to a lesser degree.
I wish both of our childhoods were different, and the only reason I’d want to go back is to get out of the cult earlier than I did.
The gas, mileage sucked, but old cars definitely had more personality. I hate that all the new cars look like every other car on the road.
Lol? Old cars all looked the same too.
Also there are cool cars, you simply cant afford them.
I’m not much of a car guy so my opinion only holds so much water but even the expensive cars are pretty underwhelming to me.
I want more cute cars. There are some out there but most things on the road look like bars of soap with wheels.
How about the parts where wealthy were taxed at a 90% rate over $100k and you could comfortably live on a single income with a family of 4 in a home you fully owned after 15 years while not needing medical insurance because even a broken leg was gonna cost you like $20 out of pocket.
How about that portion. The one when government corruption would get you thrown out and was seen as shameful. Don’t ignore the good parts of the old days and just focus on the bad parts.
based lol
Government corruption existed exactly as it did today. How do you think things got so fucked up today? Yesterday’s corruption made it all happen. However, they did take it a little more seriously then for sure, and what did happen was kept as quiet as possible instead of as brazenly open as it is today because they legalized it.
Government corruption existed exactly as it did today.
No, it didn’t. The mindset of politicians and how they handle themselves in public has changed.
Today’s politicians do stuff out in the open that only a few politicians in the past would try to do behind closed doors (Nixon has got to be doing cartwheels in his coffin right now). You can notice the big difference and how things are today, versus in the past. The quiet parts are now done in the open.
There was always a push and pull between corruption and ethics in politics. However yesterday’s politicians tried a lot harder to make sure the middle class was doing okay overall, before they started doing corrupt things for themselves. Today’s politicians just want to use everything around them for their own benefit, without regards to anything else.
We’re truly living in weird times right now, politically. The unspoken rules of politics are being ignored.
The mindset of politicians and how they handle themselves in public has changed.
I already said:
However, they did take it a little more seriously then for sure, and what did happen was kept as quiet as possible instead of as brazenly open as it is today because they legalized it.
So I’m not sure what you gained by reiterating it.
So I’m not sure what you gained by reiterating it.
Well, you did use the word exactly…
Government corruption existed exactly as it did today.
I was pushing back against that terminology. Some of the argument overlaps. I don’t believe I’m being too nuanced for the conversation being had.
I see. You took my word choice literally. It was hyperbolic.
…and yet anyone who wasn’t a white dude wasn’t allowed any of those property benefits you’re touting.
Funny that you mention medical expenses were lower when there was no penicillin so a broken leg or pregnancy had a much higher death rate.
And medical for women was treated as a mystery.
And medical for most minorities was essentially non existent.
‘Just focusing on the bad parts’ is the dismissive way to describe everyone else’s experience while existing outside the white dude bubble.
If you knew anything of American history you’d know I’m referring to the 1950s. Penicillin was discovered in the 1920’s, women were mystery boxes given vibrators for hysteria and such in the 1890’s, and women could have jobs and own property just fine in the 50’s. Really the only exceptionally bad thing still going on by the 50s that you mentioned was the racial one.
Aside from all that, you want to argue about a non point. I literally acknowledged in my post that there was bad shit about the “good old days”. I was pointing out that there was also actual good things that we no longer have.
For most the american dream has always been primarily just that, a dream.
That cannot be repeated enough because there are very powerful narratives (as old as civilization probably) that want to tell and retell stories about how things used to be better that have no grounding in reality.
You are right though, a decent amount of people actually did get to live the american dream, the US used to be a lot less hostile to a middle class existing. So long as we talk about it with the recognition that many, many, many people were excluded from that dream for bullshit reasons it is an extremely salient point to say virtually no one except the ultra wealthy is living any kind of dream in the US anymore…. which for it is worth is the impression I got from what you were saying.
I don’t think women could get credit cards until the 70’s, so things aren’t perfect for them and the jobs and salary gaps were even more skewed then. But ya, at least penicillin was a thing.
Im not sure if women could get credit cards in the 50’s, but almost no one had credit cards in the 50’s. They didn’t really go mainstream till the late 60’s and up through all the 80’s I remember most people still just using cash or checks. You had a credit card and it needed to go on a manual little machine with a slip of paper over the top that made a “rubbing” of the card for the store to have a copy.
Hell. Credit scores didn’t even exist till like the mid 80’s.
women could have jobs and own property just fine in the 50’s
This is a really misinformed idea of the time period. Women could have jobs and own property, but often informally required a man’s permission.
Want a loan, healthcare, start a business, etc.? Does your father/husband know about this?
If you were married with kids and your husband left - you absolutely had to find a new male partner. Life was nearly unnavigable without a male counterpart, and in many places single mothers were shunned - the social pressure was enormous.
Go watch a TV up into the 80s. Even in MASH, a progressive show for its time, a woman being sexually assaulted is likely to cue a fucking laugh track.
So yeah, tax rates and wages for a particular type of person may have sane, don’t expect LGBTQ+, women, or POC to look upon the time period fondly.
Your reaction to this photo (1956) shouldn’t be, ’ but look, negroes could afford nice dresses’.
You showed a picture of a racial thing. That’s literally the only thing I specified in my post saying that it WAS still bad in the 50’s.
So…I agree. Still. Just as I did before you posted the pic.
Also, I’m sorry society consisting of all the men and women gave societal pressure to be a housewife, because men and women pressured that societal norm.
Even in MASH, a progressive show for its time, a woman being sexually assaulted is likely to cue a fucking laugh track.
To be fair, everything in MASH cued a laugh track. It got so bad to the point that Alan Alda insisted on an episode where no laugh track was used at all, whatsoever.
CBS was really hardcore about forcing them to use laugh tracks on everything. I was honestly surprised they didn’t try to sneak one in when Henry Blake died.
I think they finally got rid of the laugh tracks in season 11.
I’d live in the 80’s forever if I could.
I miss the good old times before rampant enshittification…
The 90s?
2015
The 70s? The 60s? Before everything was ruined by ASCII adding lowercase letters?
EBCDIC FTW!!!
Back when FTW meant Fuck The World
Back when FTW meant Fuck The World
And FTFY meant Fuck This. Fuck You.
I thankfully wasn’t aware there’s an alternative interpretation for that one. I’ll give the modern interpretation of FTW - insofar as I can tell it sprung up organically, not as some intentional “reclaiming” of negative concepts/language.
Yeah. Before AOL and the Eternal September, about a decade before I was born. Those were the days.
Back then you could buy expensive products that were made to last. Today we can mostly choose between cheap products that don’t last and expensive product that don’t last either
Island economics, as long as the U.S. was mainly a closed system or a net exporter, we could do that because of a strong dollar.
Now that the entire world is a market, our actual dollar, or more accurately, the value per work hour, is staggeringly low compared to our grandfathers.
We literally cannot afford to buy lifelong products anymore despite manufacturing getting cheaper because our buying power dropped faster.
Oh sure, blame it on the consumers and not the rich assholes who cut corners on their products year after year after year in search of higher profit margins…
I don’t think they’re blaming it on consumers. And they aren’t wrong either. The power of the dollar is far less than it was even in the Great Depression. Thanks late stage capitalism!
The reason why wealth inequality has skyrocketed has less than nothing to do with the buying power of a single dollar. It’s completely missing the cause.
I don’t think anyone is actually talking about the cause. Doesn’t make their point any less valid.
It kinda’ does make it less valid when using it first is an implication away from the root cause.
We should not glorify red herring thought patterns.
Notable mention…I bought an Oster blender 20 years ago that’s still going strong.
There are plenty of high end products which last. Be honest, you just don’t have money to buy them. But you couldn’t buy them back then either, so you just didn’t have products at all.
But which? For example, I try to buy sneakers from brands that treat and pay their employees fairly, but am struggling to make them last more than a couple years. I’m comfortable paying 100 to 150 euro per pair. Is this too cheap to buy it for lasting??
Shoes are different I recall my athletic coach in school told me to replace sneakers every 6 months due to the wear down of the interior foam.
He was right. Bo matter the brand the insides wear out. So I got arch support inserts for my footwear and I use them until the tread wears out now.
I just wish footwear was easier to repair
You can’t repair your quality sneakers because they’re a wear and tear part instead of your feet. Repairing your feet and legs is more expensive than buying new shoes.
If you want sneakers, you’re pretty much out of luck. You can pay top dollar for a handmade shoe that will last, but it won’t have sneaker aesthetics.
I’m with you though, I bought name brand sneakers, loafers etc. for $150 only to have them fall apart after one summer. I’m talking a span of time that can be expressed in weeks. Given the material cost and knowing how and where they are produced, that’s corporate greed, nothing else.
I don’t buy sneakers any more.
I buy sneakers still but I focus on well reviewed runners. They’re light, breathable and usually have treads to last.
With a foot insert they last me a few years.
I can see how that could work. I had a few decent pairs from Japanese brands that lasted a while. But, as you said, those were running shoes with a certain, very pronounced “sporty” look that didn’t translate well to being worn as part of a casual bar or club outfit, which was definitely a consideration for me back then.
I know I’m kinda odd here because I’ve been accustomed to work boots as daily shoes. Partly because I live in a place where everywhere is muddy wet and covered in manure. Even then i don’t understand how people find sneakers comfortable. They are ridiculously tight you feel like you’re walking on carpet all the time and you have to make sure your only stepping on the dryest cleanest perfect ground you can find. The lack of durability just makes me question even further why bother.
That piece of advice doesn’t really apply to things like workboots. There are plenty of solid workboot brands that sell ~$300 boots that’ll last 3-5 years easily if properly taken care of. Some jobs are the exception, of course.
Okay, show me a list of high end products that last with our society of corporate planned obsolescence.
My friend just picked up a 50+ year old joiner and drill press that still works like a boss. Meanwhile, my Delta drill press that I’ve had for less than a decade has already started acting up.
I’ll grant you that higher priced items will last longer than the harbor freight stuff, the Sam Vimes ‘Boots’ Theory of Socio-Economic Unfairness still apply in this day and age, but it’s not anywhere near the build quality and maintainability that things used to be, at least that’s what I’ve noticed.
Miele appliances still last ages and you still don’t have money to buy them. My Wenger backpack lasted 10 years of heavy use. All of my high end EU made stuff just lasts. Stop buying shit.
I mean fuck all these poor people who can’t afford a Wenger backpack and Miele appliances amirite? And a whole two things on that list, impressive.
But if I repeatedly set it on fire, freeze it, stab it with knifes, & hang 800ib on it, will it last?
Haha poor can’t afford 1000$+ nearly indestructible backpack. Haha poor.
You might also be experiencing survivorship bias.
How many other old drill presses were tossed/didn’t make it?
Just like people machines have variance in their materials and assembly. It’s entirely possible that many other, in your case, drill presses, broke early on in their life but a few have lasted.
We do have some ridiculously disposable products these days but I do think you can still get things that last.
My American Giant clothes for instance, I’ve definitely had some fraying on a few pieces but the majority of the clothes I’ve got from them still look like new and leave very very little dryer lint compared to my older department store shirts.
GoRuck backpacks are built like a tank though I’m upset they moved most manufacturing to Vietnam… Can we not repeat the mistake of empowering/trading with regimes?
I have a Cannondale bike that’s still in great shape after nearly a decade of fairly regular use.
My wired Sennheiser headphones (DT 660S) have significantly outlasted just about all of my friends headphones (by like 2-3 headphones). I just recently had to replace the cable on them but once I did that (and bought an extra spare cable) they’re like new.
I’ve got plenty of TVs (Samsung & Sony), monitors (Samsung, Asus, and Dell), and computers (mostly hand built using various parts … mostly from ASUS, MSI, and Corsair) around that are still running just fine almost a decade later and I know of some early LED panel TVs that are still running just fine.
I also know of some recent LED TVs and appliances made by “LG” that have started to break horrendously.
I’ve found Logitech, Corsair mice and Ducky, System76, Corsair keyboards to significantly out last Razor mice and Razor, WASD keyboards.
My DeWalt tools are running like a champ still and significantly smaller and lighter than what my father’s (also still running DeWalt tools) were/are.
I absolutely adore my Brother printer vs all the HP printers I had before.
Meanwhile my Akron, Ohio house that was built in the 60s by professionals has several design issues that have resulted in floors sagging after all these years and will likely need all the pipes replaced in the next 20-30 years because of inferior materials like cast iron plumbing.
There are still brands that do actually make products that last. The “poor tax” is definitely real though, a lot of these products do cost a lot more upfront but I’ve bought significantly less stuff and paid less over time because I have paid that upfront price.
Sometimes you pay a lot of money and it still goes bad … but in general, I’ve gotten what I’ve paid for.
Again, the Sam Vimes ‘Boots’ Theory of Socio-Economic Unfairness still holds but planned obsolescence where shit, even good shit, falls apart more readily than before.
Sure there could be survivor bias as you state but I still own a crap ton of stuff inherited from the 50/60/70’s that’s holding up much better than today’s cheap plastic junk and items that are literally designed to fall apart, including your dewalts, deltas, milwalkees, mikatas. Not saying that planned obsolescence wasn’t a thing back then, it certainly was but it’s a fuck ton more prevalent now than it was back then and repairing, something that today’s companies are actively fighting consumers against makes it even worse in today’s throwaway culture.
That and I still think that the OP of this conversation thread is a bit of pretentious dick.
