'Scuse me while I grab my pitchfork!
I’m all for worker’s rights, but killing the plant manager was a touch much.
Then you really aren’t going to like the actions the OG unions took.
😂 good point. I’m just thinking that since it’s NK, the “manager” probably didn’t have much more freedom or authority than the employees did. I’d be very surprised if he benefited from the embezzlement. I’d expect the higher ups to take it all.
North Korean workers in China. The Mexicans of China if you will. The plant manager wasn’t likely going to buy mega yachts. But finding someone with so little regard for their fellow humans carries a pay bump there. Just as it does in the western world.
you dont know what that guy has done. maybe he’s killed workers himself.
Dunno if we should justify murder by violent mobs by speculating that the person might’ve deserved it.
Why not? You’re speculating for the inverse stance.
I agree with you, but I also understand the French people taking King Louis and Marie Antoinette to the guillotine. Just saying, the situation there might be so intense and oppressive, that the killing could at least be understood even if not just. We just don’t know enough :/
I agree the situation is oppressive and untenable, but the plant manager isn’t the same as a King. We don’t know if the plant manager had the actual power to fix anything, given the corruption and embezzling going on behind the scenes. A King is the top of the pyramid, this guy wasn’t necessarily, so I don’t condone his murder based on pure speculation. The French people didn’t have to speculate that the King and Queen were directly responsible for the peoples’ misery and oppression.
We just don’t know enough.
I would say that’s a good reason not to condone mob violence, not a reason to support it.
Doesn’t China regularly execute managers anyway? I’m completely against the death penalty, but I remember the melamine milk thing resulted in multiple executions (and a bunch of other sentences for other people).
I have no idea
They do regularly employ capital punishment for white collar crimes like corruption, bribery, and fraud, unlike most first world countries.
Might depend on the Plant manager. If they were just a regular person trying to do their job, then yeah, that’s a pretty shitty thing to do. Like, I understand when my manager needs us to do certain things or pushes on some aspect, they’re under the gun as much as us workers to get results. I actually get along well with my managers and I like all of them, I even actually enjoy my job a bit. Not sure how I’d react though if I wasn’t getting paid, that’s kind of pushing people into desperation.
If the person was the cause of many of their misgivings and was just a general prick to everybody, then… I don’t know, maybe they had it coming? Article only mentioned a “representative” though, so not sure why that person in was singled out, maybe it was an NK internal security person who reported people to their government?
Communists are bad rioters…
Better than anything occurring here. American workers are all talk.
Do you believe the conditions between US workers and North Korean workers in China are similar?
Wrong question; don’t give a fuck.
Anyone who accepts their servitude because someone else’s situation is worse is a fucking moron.
So the question is: Are you a fucking moron?
I’m not. Are you?
I’m not so sure the 4th part or your statement is true.
A much higher percentage of US workers are satisfied with their jobs, that’s why they don’t riot.
Americans shoot up schools
Seize the means of
productioneducationIt depends what state you’re in. People in some states mobilise better than others.
Fixed
Good. I hope it spreads.
First time North Korea or China has had some praxis.
Solidarity
They should consider Communism.
It seems like with that level of militancy they’ve got some pretty powerful class consciousness.
I wonder if they think they actually DO live under communism?
What do you mean? Communist podcasts I listened to consider them Communist, Internet search says the BBC says they are Communist.
It’s okay to be downvoted. That just means you’re the proxy for which people question what should be questioned (even if the informed answers are already very clear), that you’ve touched on impactful and deep subject matter. Don’t be sad about a meaningless red number.
Nine times out of ten, those kinds of questions are never done in good faith so they tend to be downvoted. It’s called sealioning.
And this is a place where we have the authority to call people out on their bullshit and make everybody more informed in the process. Deep Canvasing is more effective than Sealioning.
Nice iFunny watermark, heathen
Ah yeah, that’s what they all say amirite?
I’ve probably only met a handful of communist who admit to the crimes of communist regimes and acknowledged that communism in practice never lived up to the ideals. But they’re only far and few and majority of communists engages in bad faith behaviour, especially when you list all the bad things communists states have done and they go “no true communists fallacy” or “what gulag?”. Or, even if they acknowledge the arbitrary arrests and purge, they say “those people deserved it”.
But yeah, keep feigning acting in good faith. I’ve seen this many times.
Oh wait that’s a much safer term to describe those antics than what I’ve been using. I’ve always known it as “JAQing off” (just asking questions).
There seems to be a bit of a difference, even though both involve asking questions. To quote wiktionary:
sealioning (uncountable)
A type of trolling or harassment that consists of pursuing people with relentless requests for evidence, often tangential or previously addressed, while maintaining a pretense of civility and sincerity (“I’m just trying to have a debate”), and feigning ignorance of the subject matter, in order to wear down an opponent and incite angry responses that will discredit them.Apparently coined by this webcomic:
JAQ off (third-person singular simple present JAQs off, present participle JAQing off, simple past and past participle JAQed off) (slang, derogatory) To ask loaded questions inviting someone to justify their views or behaviours, in an attempt to make tangential claims of little verisimilitude appear acceptable.
So the way I understand it, “JAQing off” is when you’re trying to guide your audience towards a certain conclusion without stating it outright (e.g. “Are the official numbers of holocaust victims really as solid as people claim? Are there alternative historical interpretations? I’m just asking questions here, not implying anything folks.” when you think just saying “The holocaust didn’t happen!” might make it too obvious you’re a Nazi), while sealioning is more about annoying the other party and trying to make them look bad/unreasonable and yourself polite and reasonable in comparison (e.g. “I’m just curious, is there any actual evidence that fascists are inherently bad people, as you claim? As a person with no opinion on the matter, I would just like to have an honest and open debate on this subject.” so when people reply with something like “Fuck off, fascist!” you can say “Wow, so much for the tolerant left.”). Both tactics are frequently applied by online trolls, especially of the far right, but they have somewhat different goals.
Hey thanks!
It’s because they haven’t winnowed the State as Marx described. The problem is that once certain members of the Proletariat get their hands upon the levers of power, they find they rather like it and don’t want to let go.
It’s rather anti communist to be ruled by a dictator, and certainly a hereditary one. That’s as close as you get to monarchy, which is the antithesis of communism.
The irony is that the people are good that they live in an communist utopia, and while everyone shares the same circumstances that can hold. It’s only when living abroad when they see they are being exploited, like the rioters in this case.
Theyre a classless society with no currency?
You sure they arent a capitalist dictatorship disguised as Communist?
Just slap a coat of red paint and a gold star on it and call it communist.
You make some good points. They most definitely have currency and a lower working class with an upper government official class. I would not consider them communist at all. North Korea is just an authoritarian capitalistic hellhole, that tries to sprinkle in one or two socialist policies to maintain the illusion of pursuing communism.
I see in reading more that NK is pretty far from communist. But I think people have imagined communism to be something that it never could be. I don’t see how society could exist without money. I see that Soviets thought that eventually they wouldn’t need money but I think this is unrealistic and I don’t see that existence of money in a society could be used to determine if it’s communist or not. .
Exactly, satisfying the highest standard is not a criteria for categorisation. It’s the same as saying USA isn’t capitalistic because governament regulations are still a thing
Marx said that socialism is the gateway for communism. Bring the means of prouction to the working class, then youd be able to make the next transition to communism.
In any case, there are no societies currently that meet the primary criteria for being called socialist OR communist.
I don’t see how society could exist without money.
The fact you are incapable of understanding something doesn’t change truth.
This is the problem with people promoting socialism. They tend to compare idealized version of socialism with real version of capitalism. And such comparison inevitably leads to unrealistic conclusions.
The problem is that real version of socialism is what you see in China or Cuba or former USSR. The argument with “we haven’t done socialism right” is the same as “we haven’t done capitalism right”.
I have been born in socialist country and to this day I can see negative consequences of that era. And the obvious reason why ideal socialism can’t exist - people. Same reason why capitalism sucks.
Lenin himself called the system he instituted state capitalism, it was supposed to be a transitory state as Marx said (and the Bolsheviks were very big on historical materialism) that first you have capitalism, develop productivity, then communism would follow naturally as a consequence of resolving capitalism’s inherent contradictions.
The gaslighting started with Stalin, who invented the term “really existing socialism” to make it doubly clear that it was neither real, existed, or was socialism.
The closest any society ever got to communism isn’t via the Bolshevik “dictatorship of the proletariat” (aka dictatorship of the state bureaucracy), but via Anarchism. Horizontal organisation, abolish hierarchies. Very early revolutionary Russia qualifies until the Bolsheviks abolished councils in practice, Rojava qualifies, Chiapas qualifies, revolutionary Spain (until Bolsheviks teamed up with fascists to kill it off), revolutionary Ukraine (until the Bolsheviks – I think you see the pattern).
Yes, exactly it always fails, because it just does not scale. It’s an idea, that can’t exist in reality on a country level. You can point to Freetown Christiania as an example - a small anarchist commune, that already shows some major cracks in its structure. I mean, just grow family business a bit and you can already see structures and hierarchy emerging.
Rojava is about 4.6 million people, about as many as Kuwait. About 11 Icelands worth of population.
Interesting tidbit I picked up on an Andrewisim video recently: organizations from the Marxist-Leninist-Maoist branch of the left are particularly vulnerable to falling into cult behavior. It’s a reason to consider the whole branch to be bad and cut it right off. If not that far, then at least view organizations from that branch with a lot of criticism.
Definition of Socialism: the workers own the means of production.
Which country were you born in where you owned the means of production?
I was born in country where intellectuals were in jail and uneducated workers were put to management positions, because they should own the means of production or some bullshit like that. You can imagine the end result of that.
And again, this is the same “that wasn’t true socialism” argument. Obviously it wasn’t. The socialism as per your definition can’t exist on a country level. You can see it being implemented on a small company level (think family owned businesses) but the bigger it gets the more the cracks show and it just does not scale.
You don’t need money going to shareholders in order to scale. You need management structure. Even anarchists would say they’re against unnecessary hierarchy, and at least a little structure is generally necessary. Top management does not need to be paid 300-to-1 over the average worker. Nor do they need to specifically represent shareholders, which is what a CEO is.
People are “downvoting” you because you’re an insufferable ass.
Ironic
Well at least they have the right to (down)vote then. That isn’t that common in the socialist paradise last time I’ve checked. 🤣
mao zedong would be proud.
Watch the so-called “Communist” Party leaders decry this and crush it violently. Marx is rolling so much in his grave that if they attached a generator to him they could power half of China with the electricity
This article of the BBC gives more contexts.
can we do that too
You’re a literal slave? You are not paid for the work you do? You work sleep work and nothing else? You are physically and mentally mistreated at work? Does your work make you suicidal? Are you unable to switch to a different job? Do you live under a dictatorial regime? Will you be shot and killed if you try to escape?
Yeah, I doubt you can honestly say yes to even a single one of those questions. Some of today’s work environments have issues, with a lot of them caused by companies, but a lot of them also caused by the likes of you who do want the perks and the money, but who just flat out refuse to do anything at all beyond complaining and talking about murdering those that did work hard.
I’ve been a low level employee, I’ve been (technically still am) a company owner, now I’m a C level director. I work hard, work responsibly, and try to do the best for all employees in my teams. Should I be murdered too? Fuck your armchair redditor attitude.
There are different kinds of slavery. A wage slave is no different than a chattel slave in many ways, but of course very different in others.
And you are quite literally making shit up and call it an argument. Wage slave? really?
You are arguing that you kust want to sit and get shit for free? Is that it? Or are you one of those delusional ones that wants to make their own food on their own garden, and somehow believe that that will magically work, even though it obviously can’t?
You’re a small and angry individual and I have no idea what the fuck you’re trying to say.
There is a very realistic chance that I’m taller than you, and I’m very very much not angry. I’m slightly annoyed though by people spouting rhetoric whilst apparently not able to read highschool level English.
What part is it that you don’t understand? I’ll happily elaborate
Nobody gets paid for the work they do under capitalism. The proletariat gets his value stolen, the Cs and owners get paid for work they didn’t do.
So you’ve never received a salary, then? You always worked for free? Because if so, I think there in lies the problem. Go look for a job that is paid, and you’ll no longer be a slave. Problem solved. Next!
Are you stupid or illiterate?
You ok? Boomerang lashing at some capitalist bullying you’ve suffered?
They’ve conditioned him into blindly accepting and preaching the dogma.
I have been in a position in the past to answer yes to more than one of those questions, many of the people I used to work with still can.
So you’re living in a dictatorship, I presume? Because you don’t find any of that crap in any western (ie, capitalist, ooohhh!) country.
Survivorship bias much…
… What are you even talking about?
Google it.
Let me rephrase: what have you been smoking?
Nothing as potent as what you’ve been doing.
This guy is so staunch in his toxic capitalism at the cost of everything that he didn’t even stop to consider that this may be a joke.
Because it’s not a joke to Phoenixz. He’s just got the boot so far down his throat there’s no alternative. Reading his comment, it sounds like one of those people who owns a job not a business, and/or one of those people who thinks he’s now in the 1%s good graces now that he makes $100k/yr.
wage slavery is abhorrent, even if you happen to like it.
Maybe learn a little before you start talking about things you don’t understand? You’re literally parrotting nonsense statements that sound cool but mean nothing.
this is pure rhetoric. it doesn’t even undermine what it said. it’s pure posturing.
All slavery aside… YOU! Motherfucker! Are the problem.
Great argument! Now go back to sitting and being useless to everyone, just like you’re doing now.
Hell yeah, power to the proletariat!
I literally said to myself “hell yeah!” reading the headline, and then opened to find it was the top comment 😂
North Koreans in China showing the world how it’s done. Who had THAT on their bingo card ?
Americans forget their middle class existed for the short time it did exactly because of actions like this.
You don’t fight the enemy sitting on your toilet reading Lemmy posts. (It’s still fun though)
There is the working class and the owning class. All other distinctions are a waste of brain power.
Raises Fist … not to get too deep into it… but at this point we’re closer to the Transnational Capitalist class vs Everyone else .
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnational_capitalist_class
Until China has to kill all of them because North Korea won’t take them back.
Welcome to the Rednecks, North Koreans.
What the fuck are you talking about?
What exactly are you confused about?
That the Chinese and North Koreans would rather kill 2000 people than pay them? Or The history and origin of the original Redneck?
I don’t think they’ll be killed. Neither North Korea nor China are that stupid. I do think that they’ll be forced to work until they drop and paid nothing or paid a pittance, even by Chinese standards, with the bulk of the value of their labour being split between the company that they work for and the Chinese and North Korean states.
dude, they decided to have a little uprising and decapitated their boss (who in systems like china gets the job because of government connections), they have done a lot worse for a lot less
The riot occurred at a clothing manufacturing and seafood processing factory
That…is an interesting combination
My boss ordered an anti-fatigue mat from Amazon recently and entirety of the inside of that package smelled like a fish market.
an anti-fatigue mat
What is that because I am fatigued as fuck. I really need one. I’m OK with it smelling like fish.
it is a cushioned mat that is supposed to make your feet or legs not hurt from standing in one spot. I’m not sure how well they actually work but I’ve got one infront of the sink for when I’m doing dishes.
Thanks! :) Never heard of one before.
They make a ton of difference if you’re standing on a hard floor for more than an hour or two. Still worse than something to sit on but stools are a luxury beyond the reach of American workers.
The night and day crew use the same equipment for different purposes. (they’re on 12 hour shifts because that’s more efficient or something probably)
Clothes that smell like seafood straight from the factory could be the next $100 white t-shirt or designer jeans with rips already in them.
The connection is that they both require workers, but don’t want to pay them
Like some kind of slave mall
So that’s why clothes from Temu smell like that…
Now can someone explain to me why Amazon boxes sometimes smell like ass, just actual ass, why?
And yet you continue to order them
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) I think you already know
Derek’s Derelict clothing line must be made there
I couldn’t find an image but there’s an old Far Side cartoon that shows a building that’s something like “Jake’s Croissants and Fill Dirt”. Reminds me of that.
This is God tier.
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Because these two industries are both labor intensive.
When North Koreans unionize, they don’t fuck around.
Except they’re now all organ donors.
The article mentions that only around 200 or so we’re repatriated for labor camps.
I read this somewhere else on Lemmy recently (sorry for comment steal):
American companies that are trying to dismantle unions need to understand that unions were a compromise to protect the companies. Because this is the alternative.
There’s a quote I can’t seem to find about unions being the compromise because the alternative is showing up at the factory owner’s house.
The Battle of the Overpass wasn’t that long ago.
Found the one I was thinking of:
Someone should probably tell the rich that workers banding together to present formal address of grievances is the alternative we worked out a long time ago to breaking down the factory owner’s front door and beating him to death in front of his family? I feel like they forgot.
It was on Twitter, no idea the origin.
That’s it
Yeah but now they have tools like TikTok to cook our brains and microwave cannon to cook protesting bodies.
The great part about history is sometimes there’s no need to find a quote when there’s tons of evidence! Here’s a few:
France, George Besse killed in 85’ due to his “revolutionary” turnaround of a company that included mass layoffs.
United States Labor Wars which spanned a century of bloodshed and violence. The Labor Wars included the Battle of Blair Mountain where the largest private army in US history was formed and approximately one million rounds were fired.
There’s a reason your history classes were boring, there’s a reason they opt for American propaganda instead of facts, and there is a reason companies are shitting themselves over union talks. Both the best and worst part about being a history buff is knowing the facts they don’t want you to hear. Be a History Buff with me Limmings! We never meet up, there are no dues, you have no deadlines or tests, and you get to earn dark secrets you can use to torture your friends and family with. It’s great!
If I could carry around a Limmings History Buff Fellowship member card with qr code links to sites like these, it’d be just handy dandy for the torturing-friends-and-family part.
Sounds like it’s time again to teach that lesson
This issue extends to politicians as well. If you replace “Ancien Régime” with “Oligarchy-flavored Republic” it’s almost like we’re living the beginning script of the French Revolution here in America. That should induce quite the pandemic of sweaty palms in D.C. If that Oaf gets reelected, we’re gonna have a Louis XVI on our hands… and we all know how that went down…
So who will be Napoleon this time?
Non?
I call dibs
Some obscure Puerto Rican who is alive today but nobody has heard of yet.
Step 1 find a land surveyor student with micropenis
There should be at least one in the entire world.
Which Oaf do you mean?
This is a coal mine canary of the future of china, civil unrest and wealth inequity for everyone!
So exactly the same as the rest of the industrialized world?
China and India will be first!
Why are you so enthusiastic about it lmao?
USA is reserve currency for a huge chunk of the world, they have to all fail with their local currency first, you need a common ground for international trade - the US is still a reserve currency because oil mostly.
So you think the civil collapse of two governments with over 2.8 billion citizens collectively would be a good thing because it would make improve the logistics of trade? /gen
No I am saying its going to happen as a fact.
Yeah I got that but I’m trying to determine whether or not you think that’s a good thing or a bad thing.
because maybe it will be enough of a warning for our owning classes that we won’t have to personally get our hands bloody
“2.8B people put under severe unrest is good because it might improve my conditions that are already better than them”
I don’t think China or india collapsing would make American billionaires scared. That’s a lot of new people to exploit
India has some social issues comparable to the rest of the industrialized world, for sure, but on a completely different scale because of their long arduous history of marginalization and castes. China is an expansionist dictatorship which is a whole other animal.
Expansionist?
China took over Hong Kong by means of corruption and military force, attempted but failed to do the same thing with Taiwan. They’ve been raiding Tibet and tearing down temples, rounding monks up like cattle. They’ve even been having constant border disputes with India. That’s all in the last decade. Imagine taking over multiple other nations in a 4 year period and not thinking that is overly aggressive for modern international relationships. Hell, they’ve even been having border disputes with the damn oceans: China landfilled the sea between Hong Kong and Borneo for military use and to gain territory in a contested region. They’ve recently been accused of overfishing with Cyanide in the Philippines, as well.
When you have nothing left, you riot.
