France uncovers a vast Russian disinformation campaign in Europe::undefined
Shocked Pikachu is Shocked
Disinformation or more accurately, lying, is Russian doctrine. Everything that they say seems to be a lie and designed to delay appropriate action.
lying, is Russian doctrine
Its true. The entire Russian language is just a series of elaborate lies with grammar and syntax. It is impossible to say three consecutive true statements in a Slavic tongue.
That sounds more racist than true
I think they are joking.
That said, правда (“truth” as something you believe to be true) and истина (“truth” as objective truth) are different words in Russian, but not having that distinction in a language doesn’t prevent its speakers from making it.
In English, you’d just describe that as “objective” and “subjective”. This isn’t in any way uniquely Russian. But its nice to pretend it is, because it plays well with the process of demonization.
True versus verified, perhaps
I can do that in Russian too. I can’t do the former in English.
There are plenty of things possible in one language and not (yet\anymore) in another. I don’t see what does this have to do with any kind of demonization. Maybe for people knowing only one language, which, yes, is more common for English speakers than I’d like to think.
I suppose a speaker of Finnish would have something to enlighten us about some languages being in some regards inferior to his own, too. Or a speaker of Icelandic. Or maybe even Persian. There are languages having dozens of words to distinguish shades\textures of snow or sand, or not having future tense.
There are plenty of things possible in one language and not (yet\anymore) in another. I don’t see what does this have to do with any kind of demonization.
Pick a differential, declare that it is a unique good/bad indicator, and then work it into your propaganda. “In Chinese, the word for tragedy is the same as the word for opportunity” to imply Asian businessmen are naturally predatory. The “red heads have no souls” meme, used to denigrate the Irish. The entire field of Phrenology is based on picking differentials and trying to explain your way backwards into why it proves some racist theory.
Its a boilerplate technique for alienating, mystifying, and ultimately demonizing an outside group.,
This whole chain of thought may make sense to you if you don’t speak any other languages that English.
It just never in the world would weigh more for me than the joy of noticing unique traits of any particular language\dialect I’ve been lucky to learn something about.
And as a Russian native speaker, I’ve given you an example which is factual in the very first my comment in this thread. What are you going to do, ignore the fact?
Or maybe it’s just easier to find something to condemn in what others say when you yourself have nothing to say on subject because of being simply ignorant about other languages.
I think every literate soul in Afghanistan would agree that this isn’t really limited to Russia.
All sides are doing it in every war, be wary what you trust
Of course. That’s been true since the dawn of humanity.
Russia has a certain flavor of lying that I don’t see elsewhere. They make claims that are so utterly ridiculous that everyone knows it is complete bullshit. It’s like some weird gaslighting / dominance thing. Lavrov and Putin are pros at this.
Purely by coincidence, you see a similar technique employed by one of the two major US presidential candidates. Only his approach is to repeat the ridiculous lie enough times that some people believe it.
Russia has a certain flavor of lying that I don’t see elsewhere. They make claims that are so utterly ridiculous that everyone knows it is complete bullshit. It’s like some weird gaslighting / dominance thing.
There is one other place I do see this strategy replicated, which is from the IDF.
Turkey and Azerbaijan
China
half the African continent
…
seems to not be some innovation limited to specific countries really.
Missing the obvious… Trump, The Brexit cronies, any number of populist movements in Europe.
Hitler described “große Lüge” in Mein Kampf in 1925.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie
Putin and Trump are both of course great admirers of this technique.
I like the bluntness of the name. BIG LIE
at this point I’m not even sure you’d have to try to disguise it. I think that Trump could admit that the whole stolen election thing was a lie and that people have ingrained it so deeply into who they feel themselves to be that they’d still believe it and still have the same sense of moral outrage that the election was “stolen”.
Yeah, they would go down fighting, saying someone “got to” Trump and threatened him into saying it was a lie
And I have already seen some people advocating for Putin say that if you compare Putin with Hitler you’ve lost.
What this also implies is that the more one’s actions resemble actions of Hitler the easier it would be to win over opponents in discussion because they will inevitably come up with this comparison
Once upon a time, in the early internet, invoking Hitler in an argument was always hyperbole and a sign you’d run out of arguments.
Those days are behind us.
Sure, but for Russia it’s the actual doctrine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_military_deception
How is it worse than the US military deception doctrine?
How about instead of linking to documents you do the analysis yourself.
But to spare you the burden: Remember when Bush came clean and said that all those weapons of mass destruction in Iraq were a lie? And how that didn’t go down well with the west, and how many western countries already called bullshit before the US even invaded? That kind of stuff is doctrine in Russia, not just in the military but also when it comes to securing regime power internally. It’s how Putin won his first election, by blowing up apartment buildings and blaming it on Chechens. Another important thing is to tell so many lies and contradictory things that the very notion of truth gets demolished, that people throw up their hands and say “I’d rather be apolitical than try to figure out what’s what”.
Western military deception OTOH is more of the “blink right, turn left” kind, it’s about anticipating the opponent’s analysis of the situation and exploiting that, either by feint or because they have a blind spot. And even then you want to be careful because damaging trust is often worse than taking a hit you could’ve avoided with deception.
Another important thing is to tell so many lies and contradictory things that the very notion of truth gets demolished, that people throw up their hands and say “I’d rather be apolitical than try to figure out what’s what”.
Yes, that is true, can confirm.
Now do the CIA
I too also uncovered this, but it was quite some time ago now
The thing is that their uncovered the method, whisch should help a bit in mitigating the damage
Honestly Portal Kombat is a great name.
It’s a great pun, but I hate how good an English pun it is, especially for the operation. It suggests that these guys aren’t hacks, and have enough language and culture skills to blend in. The recent “warm water ports” gaffe comes to mind.
Also, intelligence agencies don’t use cute code names for things like this since it makes it easier to work out the operation scope or intent. To me, this also says that the operation is “at arm’s length” and the name was coined by non-government folks. Think: information age mercenaries.
I was gonna say “I love the name they gave it”
FIGHT!
Wait?!! RUSSIA?!?!?
Misinformation campaign?!?!
Surely some mistake?!?!
That would be SO unlike them!!!
DISinformation. The difference is that misinformation might or might not be intentional, whereas disinformation is organised intentional misinformation with a specific goal in mind.
Not that I blame you for getting it wrong, mind you, since most media outlets consistently do.
Apologies. Late night sloppiness. I support your correction. After I posted it I thought the same thing but couldn’t be arsed changing it.
No worries, I’ve made worse late night sloppiness mistakes myself. Just last night, I accidentally called Janet Yellen Secretary of State in stead of Secretary of the Treasury.
To make matters worse, I actually looked up whether Yo Yo Ma is a cellist or violinist for the same comment, but neglected to double check Yellen’s title while I was on Wikipedia anyway 😄
Respect for Yo Yo Ma the cello player 😀
7-Year-Old Cellist Prodigy Yo-Yo Ma’s Debut Performance for President JFK | The Kennedy Center
finally?!
Rightwing idiots are already drooling to swallow up everything they say.
Russian propaganda is big on the left, too.
Uncovering these rings, publicizing them, and shutting them down needs to be a top priority. I think a lot, if not most, of the bad decisions made by voters stem from these kind of bad actors. We’ve let it go on for long enough.
You’d have thought publicising them would involve not only saying they exist, but also educating people about what the misinformation is. As far as I can tell from a quick scan, the article doesn’t talk about the message the proganda is pushing. I’m just as clueless as before about what I should believe and what I shouldn’t.
Are the public just meant to know when they’re being lied to?
Yes this should have been done better. I remember when they did the same thing in the USA they at least listed all of them so you could to see what they were up to.
Not only voters, also politicians. Everyone can be influenced, even those in power :)
Oh, are we all on the “Russia Did It” train for this election cycle? Can’t wait to see what other regurgitated meaningless talking points people are gonna dig up to convince dumbasses to keep playing the political game.
Slava Ukraini
Blue Hitler over Red Hitler
The world must be a pretty small and scary place for binary thinkers like you. Hope things start looking up for ya!
It’s about to be tiny and horrific for everyone regardless of their stances, but you can keep pretending voting for Biden will help at all. Meanwhile, I am going to just vote No Confidence and then not worry about it anymore. Deal with it.
Can you detail for me how voting No Confidence (which would be a write in, at least for presidential elections) works in the US? Additionally, how does this vote impact decisions any way more or less than voting for any candidate?
You’d think an agent would do better than to out themselves with things like that, but i guess Russia isn’t exactly known for competence.
how are you going to vote in an US election with your russian passport, you absolute nonce
And now we’re onto the “Russian spy” talking point as if that hasn’t been beaten to death already.
You’re really, really not convincing me to go along with your charade. And you need my vote far more than I need anything from you.
i need you to shut the fuck up, since you are not, let me say it in a language you’ll understand: Иди нахуй, сука.
How is this meaningless, dumbass?
Because it’s the same regurgitated talking points that haven’t worked and have done nothing since 2016.
Retard.
get fucked, you russian piece of shit
Without paywall. (Initially posted the same link, but then I noticed their comment. Leaving mine up since theirs doesn’t explicitly say what the link is)
I really prefer the Israeli and the USA disinformation campaigns /s
Fucking neoliberals… decades of neoliberal economic policy, imperialism and media conglomeration allowed this fertile ground in the first place.
Add to that, that every news is owned by someone, makes a minimum of 50% of its revenue from ads, and gets the rest of its revenue from paying customers from a class with expandable income who don’t want their worldview challenged or destroyed… It is really scary, how easy it is to manipulate public opinion by simple strategically choosing how facts are reported (pictures of humans vs. reporting numbers, wording, etc.), which facts are reported in the first way and where to position the information (top of page vs. footer). It is fun to call out Russia, instead calling out the ruling class, companies, the western governments etc. They all lie and they all try to control/direct public discourse.
So we are doing the Russian thing again? An easy scapegoat to blame for everything. Western propaganda like this is more dangerous to society than fictional the Boogeyman
JFC, choose to be better.
Here you are, presented with facts and you just ignore them and start spouting more right wing garbage, truly worthless
Russia Russia Russia
Yes, we’re doing this Russia thing again, because, like last time (though it’s never truly stopped) we are confronted with evidence of a wide-reaching disinformation campaign. Yes, it’s an easy scapegoat because Russia is actually the one at fault here. Crazy, right?
Try to make sure not to make yourself look like a complete idiot the next time you sit down to write a comment.
I was about to tag you, but your username is rather apt
literally get fucked you russian piece of shit
Joseph Mccarthy wants his Red scare propaganda back
i’m from europe, you cum nugget
Same red scare propaganda
No shit .
Why even fund uncovering these. Just build your systems with this as a consideration. If it’s not Russia it will be someone else.
‘Just’
Just make sure all information is correct. How hard can it be?
Yeah I hear you
To prove that they’re real. Without proof it can be seen as a conspiracy
How do you defend against something without first uncovering it and seeing how it works?
