Both Israel and Hamas have blood on their hands. I know we all like the whole Good vs. Bad but in an eye for eye situation, they are both wrong. People, on both sides, suffer. If the politicians would fight on the front, they would be less eager to create these situations.
Yeah an eye for an eye if you’re a barbarian. 30 eyes for each 1 is… something else.
And it’s not like the fascist Israeli settlers didn’t start their share of murder before Okt.7: Israel Escalates Genocidal Violence Against Palestinians In The West Bank - YouTube TMR Jul.8th 2023
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Israel Escalates Genocidal Violence Against Palestinians In The West Bank - YouTube TMR Jul.8th 2023
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
That’s like blaming Jews during world war 2 for putting up resistance against their fascist rulers. It is such a mischaracterization of the situation that it is damaging to the Palestinian people.
I’m sorry, but whose currently suffering on the Israeli side? Because Gaza is literally starving. And the Aid trucks are idling at the border with food that the IDF refuses to let through.
The calculus changes when everything from ambulances to children could be actual, literal bombs.
The calculus changes when everything from ambulances to children could be actual, literal bombs.
That’s a really weird way to say, “I’ll kill any Palestinian that moves, even the cattle, because I can’t even bother viewing them as human beings”.
Would it be acceptable if someone shot an Israeli ambulance, saying, “well, you never know these days, these ambulances are full of IDF ready to attack!”?
Nope, and neither should the opposite.
Nope. No you don’t get to go down that road. We dealt with that uncertainty in Iraq without causing a massive famine or using 2,000 pound bombs. They are no excuses for genocide, and certainly not victim blaming.
It sounds like you’re saying if Jihadists use ambulances and children then there’s no defense. Just lay down and die.
Sounds like you’re trying to lump every person in Gaza in with Hamas. Professional soldiers have procedures for those situations. Ones Israel isn’t using.
I’m not.
I’m very clearly saying that when you’re fighting a group who straps bombs to kids, you have to consider that even those appearing to be regular civilians might be a threat.
Oh but you are. Because we’ve done this. We know how to deal with those problems without committing a genocide. The only reason to answer charges of genocide with , “but the kids might have weapons!” Is to blame the victims.
Possibly the families of some of the people killed by Hamas. I bet they’re suffering.
Yeah I bet their friends are doing things like bringing them food to help and their jobs are giving them extra time off or something.
Yes, that is generally part of grieving.
Israel is not fighting against Hamas. Israel is fighting against all Palestinians, of which only a tiny fraction is Hamas. Well or rather they are fightinf against Hamas, but they are slaughtering the other Palestinians.
Israel is past the need to defend itself. Now they are taking the opportunity to commit genocide and displace the Palestinians from Gaza.
What do you propose Israel do about all of the missiles being fired by Hamas?
I propose Israel stop the weapons embargo on Gaza, allowing Gazans to arm themselves. The embargo obviously doesn’t work for keeping weapons from Hamas. It does, however, make the honest people of Gaza totally powerless to resist their dictators.
It does, however, make the honest people of Gaza totally powerless to resist their dictators.
Have you ever wondered what those people might have experienced that would lead them to hate Israel so much?
That’s a different point, isn’t it? The comment above seems to suggest that Hamas doesn’t have support from the vast majority of Palestinians. In reality, if they had weapons, it appears they might use them the exact same way Hamas did.
I was directly replying to that point.
What do you propose Israel do about all of the missiles being fired by Hamas?
Don’t they already have the Iron Dome? That btw lets missiles drop on “poor Palestinian areas” because their systems categorize them as “empty lands”?
What do you suggest they do? Aside from killing every man, woman and child, of course?
I suggest Israel root out Hamas. Then hold elections to create a Palestinian government that’s willing to negotiate with Israel for their own state
The iron dome also isn’t perfect and doesn’t change the intent. If I make my house bullet proof and you shoot it every day in the hopes of killing me at some point I have the right to get rid of you by some method surely?
To do “self defence”, all Israel had to do was guard its borders and have some diplomatic solution that didn’t completely dehumanize Palestinians, maybe policies that listen to expert opinions on these subjects and how this is causing extremism to double. They didn’t need to invade “in self defence”.
If I make my house bullet proof and you shoot it every day in the hopes of killing me at some point I have the right to get rid of you by some method surely?
Funny how that works both ways.
Alright so from your perspective it seems you expect Israel to do all the heavy lifting here. Just ignore the attacks and hope Hamas is willing to negotiate one day? Even though they make it clear they want to remove Israel
What should the Palestinians/Hamas be doing? Continuing with their current course of action until Israel decides to do something different?
Giving people rights and ending apartheid and reducing extremism is heavy lifting? As opposed to now???
But yes I expect the supremacist colonial landgrabbers to do the heavy lifting.
BRB, on my way to withdraw all funding for an UN agency with 30.000 employees because 12 of them have been denounced by Israel.
Have they provided any proof yet?
The israeli “evidence” has been leaked and confirmed fake
But journalists from Sky News reviewed the so-called dossier and reported “The Israeli intelligence documents make several claims that Sky News has not seen proof of and many of the claims, even if true, do not directly implicate UNRWA.”
Britain’s Channel 4 also obtained the document and determined it “provides no evidence to support its explosive new claim that UNRWA staff were involved with terror attacks on Israel.” The Financial Times, which also reviewed the materials, reported there were specific allegations of direct participation in the October 7 attacks against four Palestinians employed by UNRWA, not 12 as originally asserted.
This was a transparent attempt by Israel to distract from the rulings in the ICJ genocide case and to obliterate a U.N. agency that Israel has long viewed as an impediment to its goal of denying Palestinians the right to return to the homes and territory from which Israel expelled them
The israeli “evidence” has been leaked and confirmed fake
Are the quotes you provided supposed to support the “confirmed fake” part of your comment?
Because “has not seen proof” and “provides no evidence” do not equate to “confirmed fake”.
The number of very online people who think countries share their intelligence with every Channel 4 news who asks is a little surprising.
No the evidence is fake. Evidence means that you can proof something happened which israel clearly can’t.
That’s bold considering all the things people on this site were so sure about only to be proven wrong weeks later.
For me, I’ll wait for the investigation to finish.
The “evidence” was already leaked and contained no proof whatsoever. Waiting must be convenient. Are we going to see the Hamas base under the hospital soon?
And it turned out israel lied almost every single time about almost everything.
But there is a problem with the gut-wrenching narratives that have bolstered the underlying justification for the slaughter of Gaza: They are either complete fabrications or have not been substantiated with a shred of evidence. Many have been thoroughly disproven by major Israeli media outlets.
Hamas had command tunnel under U.N. Gaza headquarters, Israeli military says
Reporters on the closely escorted trip entered a shaft next to a school on the periphery of the U.N. compound, descending to the concrete-lined tunnel. Twenty minutes of walking through the stifling hot, narrow and occasionally winding passage brought them underneath UNRWA Headquarters, an army lieutenant-colonel leading the tour said.
So, yeah. I think I’ll wait for the investigation to conclude.
The evidence provided by Israel alleging that roughly a dozen UNRWA staffers participated in Hamas’s October 7 terror onslaught is “highly credible,” US Secretary of State Antony Blinken said Monday, as media outlets published additional details on the implicated employees, including photos from an Israeli dossier. “We haven’t had the ability to investigate [the allegations] ourselves. But they are highly, highly credible,” Blinken said during a press conference
Otoh, Blinken and Biden have parroted everything the IDF feeds them until independent journalists debunk it.
So we’ve cut funding without conducting any investigation. Great.
Remember the beheaded babies?
“We haven’t had the ability to investigate [the allegations] ourselves. But they are highly, highly credible,” Blinken said during a press conference
This sounds like something The Onion would have written.
Until the information is verified by neutral third parties, this gives me some WMDs in Iraq vibes.
Both Israel and the US have a history of lying to justify war crimes and crimes against humanity.
I used to have faith that bad people will eventually pay for their crimes. That the weight of their sins will crush them eventually. But these past decades have taught me that the new response to crushing weight of sin is to simply get a stronger spine.
They don’t need to provide any proof
https://theintercept.com/2024/02/07/gaza-israel-netanyahu-propaganda-lies-palestinians/
Omg, I thought Princess Leia would be more tolerant.
Really disappointed
“If you hate the death star so much, why don’t you go live on Alderaan?”
The Empire has a right to defend itself
How do I stop seeing propaganda on lemmy? It’s making me sick of lemmy as a whole
How are you using lemmy? I use Connect on android and it has a setting for word filters that filter posts you dont want. This drastically improved my exerience once i started using it to filter trump posts.
Block everyone you disagree with
It’s not about who I disagree with, I can’t take the animosity anymore. I’m tired of thinking about war every day.
That I understand. Maybe you could try a browser extension to block text or news based on keywords? One parental control extension helped me filled out news from rich people that piss me off
Maybe. But doesn’t help that I can’t go to store to buy food without seeing 10 different types of propaganda and vitriol… I can’t take it dude. I want to go to sleep and never wake up
:( sorry.
You can’t filter IRL yet but what about only subscribing to wholesome communities?
I think that’ll eliminate at least 95% of the problem here.
Also don’t forget we live in a simulation / you’re the only person who exists, so you can smile best you can at the war news and ignore it best you can.
Sorry to hear you are going through this.
Yup, it’s a drag. We need to do something about it though, it’s like a rash. It doesn’t go away until you see the doctor, or in this case vote in someone willing to tell other countries they can’t do this shit with our weapons.
It’s destroying my mental health and I can’t cope with it. Not just the war but the constant anger. Everyone is angry about everything all the time. I hate it here. Not only that, I hate my own life too. My life is in shambles and it will take tremendous effort to repair, just so I can stay on this dying planet…
Seriously, what’s the fucking point? I don’t eat anymore cause of the stress, I don’t sleep anymore cause of the nightmares. I wish aliens would come and euthanize our entire fucking planet. I can’t take it anymore
I’m sorry you feel this way.
Try to remember that the internet is not fully representative of real life. The world outside will hopefully feel less angry and stressful than this online one.
Definitely avoid social media doomscrolling. It’s fucking toxic.
My real life is substantially worse than the internet
Doesn’t have to be the whole planet, just the top 400 richest people would do wonders though. Most of us are just trying to get by, put the blame on the one misusing “human resources”.
Lmfao imagine siding with a genocide
I hate Israel. I hate Palestine. I hate the discourse. I hate fucking EVERYTHING.
Being made to think about war every day for years on end is destroying my mental health. I can’t use a computer, watch TV, or go outside without it shoved down my throat. I can’t even go to sleep without having nightmares about it. I want off this fucking ride. I hate being alive so fucking much.
It’s not Palestinians’ fault for being occupied and mass murdered. How are you so shameless centering and victimizing yourself for being forced to hear about people suffering genocide? This shit is unbelievable.
Palestine supporters are fairly unique in the fact that not caring or not having a position is unacceptable to them. You must care, you must share their viewpoint, nothing else is possible.
You didn’t see the same reaction to, for example, Ukraine being invaded. Indifference was acceptable.
I don’t think this is unique at all, it’s the core of all politics both left, right, authoritarian, liberal, etc. No matter what you believe, even if it’s nothing, there are always twice as many people against you than with you. It’s enough to make someone withdraw entirely.
You didn’t see the same reaction to, for example, Ukraine being invaded. Indifference was acceptable.
In the example of Ukraine, countries have taken countless measures to pressure Russia. In this case, counties are complicit in the genocide. There’s a difference. People don’t protest when politicians do at least the bare minimum.
Might have something to do with the fact that Russia was unprovoked. Which is very different than this conflict.
How?
I assume they were alluding to the kidnapping, raping, beheading, etc perpetrated by the terrorist organization Hamas, done as a tactical move to draw a disproportionate response from the IDF in order to win the propaganda war.
The only escape from something you cannot escape is to embrace it. The thing that degrades mental health is being unwillingly exposed. If the thing cannot be avoided, the only other move is to willingly expose yourself to it.
I’m gonna willingly expose myself to a bullet if I can’t get some rest without nightmares soon
Well then, log off your main acc and create one locked just to the good feelings parts of lemmy
You do have the option of taking a digital break. You must remember thst everyone has a limit, and once you push them hard enough they tend to push back
This is the Memes community.
Shieeeeeeeet
Well I guess there really isn’t an escape
Just take a break from social media that does wonders. This guy can testify for that
Holy shit. The Onion hits again.
Dude, most of us are on the other side of the world, living in countries that can do little more than send a sternly worded letter to Israel.
Being constantly reminded of that shitshow doesn’t help.
This is the most goated comment I’ve ever read in lemmy. Fucking based.
I wish someone would kick down my door and shoot me
Well, you could always try the new trend of extreme tourism in Gaza
Please see a mental health professional, or seek assistance if you are in acute crisis. If you google “mental health hotline” or “crisis hotline” you’ll find a number for your country you can reach out to.
I hope you are getting better soon.
That must be nice, not having your life put in danger so you can feel depressed about hearing other people’s life being put in danger. Hope it lasts for you, but predictions for this century say war is going to become pretty rampant globally, so I’d recommend you find a way of coping with it better.
Not like you give a shit at all but hate crimes against my kind have skyrocketed in the past few months and I was assaulted by a stranger in public about two weeks ago so I don’t appreciate the implication that this doesn’t affect me personally
Few months! What a luxury.
Well, my people have been oppressed for over 2000 years, but I’m not counting that since I haven’t been alive for most of it.
Indifference is unacceptable, you must care about the thing!
Sod off.
Indifference about genocide is not just unacceptable, it’s evil you piece of shit.
You are simultaneously denying the Uyghur genocide on another thread, you fucking nasty little hypocrite.
Palestinians are being murdered and ethnically cleansed in the tens of thousands. Thousands are dying weekly and this is being documented. We are seeing the people dying. We saw with our eyes Israel destroy all requisites for life in the Gaza and prevent all food and water from entering.
On the other hand we have seen quite literally nothing supporting the claim that China is committing Uygher genocide. Literally nothing. Uygher people continue to live normally in Xinjiang. They continue to practice their allegedly repressed culture. They continue to communally practice their allegedly repressed religion. Uygher genocide only exists in the propaganda of the United States state department and the minds of those it influences and those it employs.
We haven’t seen “literally nothing”. That is a flat lie. There is a ton of evidence, presented by organisations who you choose to call liars because it allows you to deny the truth. There are non US affiliated organisations calling the Party out, too. A true humanist would not dismiss the evidence of the Xinjiang genocide. Both the Palestinians and the Uyghurs are facing genocide, and you’re petty enough to be tribal about it. Fuck you and the horse you rode in on you monstrous cunt.
We have in fact seen absolutely no evidence that China is committing genocide in Xinjiang. None.
Oh look, a Lemmy.ml user acting like a prick. How unprecedented.
Nobody owes you their attention.
It’s making all of us sick. I wish I could ignore all this too. I actually tried to, but then my government decided to step in on the world state and loudly pronounce “there is no genocide!”. And then cut humanitarian funding after the international court of justice anonymously found “credibly risk of genocide”. Which makes my country now complicit if this genocide is allowed to continue. Which makes me deeply ashamed and angry.
Have you considered you could just be wrong?
I’m basing this on the facts as presented by Israel themselves and judged practically anonymously by 15 judges of the highest court of the world. Sure, but have YOU considered you could be wrong?
If you’re wrong you’re aiding a genocide. If I’m wrong I’m just another “anti-semite”.
Leave Lemmy? Use a front end with filtering/blocking? Change communities? Plenty of options if you just take a hreath and think instead of whining.
Go back to Reddit
Piss off.
I hear at least one of the Jedi was a Sith, good thing they were defunded. Now if we could only defund all the conspiracy theorists about the emperor being a Sith as well.
Han fired first
Maclunkey
Well, she’s changed a lot after her 16th birthday:
The nose doesn’t look extremely weird anymore.
Wow, such a massive change.
Oh good I was really thinking my shit posting community needed more agenda posts
But does she condemn Hamas??
Here are 10 Myths of Israel (archived) by Ilan Pappe
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Palestine was an empty land
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The Jews were a people without a land
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Zionism is Judaism
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Zionism is not colonialism
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The Palestinians voluntarily left their homeland in 1948
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The June 1967 War was a war of “no choice”.
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Israel is the only Democracy in the Middle East
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The Oslo Mythologies
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The Gaza Mythologies
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The Two-State Solution is the only way forward
This article, Examining the 10 Myths of Israel is a shorter version of the main points
The book is too detailed to summarize each chapter on a comment, but it’s not too difficult to find independent sources to verify each of them
-
Lol samharris.org
What kind of pretentious loser names an opinion blog site after himself, and bestows a “.org” at the end
The more I read this crap the more obvious it is this bullshit article relies on lengthy annoying paragraphs that no one wants to read and a “.org” at the end to sound more official
Myth #1: Israel is guilty of “genocide” in Gaza.
The term “genocide” has a clear meaning—it’s the destruction or attempted destruction of a whole people.
Yes , 95% of people starving in the world were in Gaza when Israel chose to withhold aid to them. That is the attempted destruction of a whole people
Myth #2: International Humanitarian Law Requires that Israel’s response to Palestinian aggression be “proportional.”
I’m as anti Israel as it gets, and I’ve never heard this argument that you’re legally bound to proportional, sounds like this author really likes the title of the blog counting up to 5.
That said, there are tons of MORAL arguments against disproportionately killing civilians, but the only legal one that comes to mind is when Israel evacuated Gazans to a region in the south, then bombed that region with white phosphorus https://www.cbsnews.com/news/israel-hamas-war-white-phosphorous-gaza-palestinians-amnesty-hrw-reports/
Myth #3: The Jews Are Colonizers and the Palestinians are Indigenous People.
Not the Jews, but, the Israelis are colonizers. Biblically they were a nomadic war faring tribe. They never were a country. The west created a colony to project power in the middle east because they had no other allies there. Israel is a country in a region called Palestine. Palestinians never formed a government that resembled something the west could do business with
In colonialism, the colony has superior technology. The middle east just industrialized, how the hell could Palestinians have been anything but natives the last few thousand years
Myth #4: The atrocities committed by Hamas (and over one thousand Palestinian civilians) on October 7th were a legitimate response to oppression.
Israel left Gaza in 2005—forcibly removing thousands of its own citizens—and billions of dollars in international aid have since been spent there. So the “oppression” of the Palestinians in Gaza—by Israel—is at least debatable.
This is so fucking stupid I’m just going to leave this here. “Oppression” lmao, why the air quotes? Being born in a ghetto doesn’t count as being oppressed?
Myth #5: The two sides in this conflict are equally civilized, equally entitled to respect, and equally worth protecting.
I actually agree with this. You can’t compare violence between two groups when one group (Israel) is occupying the other (Palestine). The violence from Palestinians against Israel is like violence from black people to the police. It’s not good, but it’s not the same. One group is oppressed and radicalized from that, the other group is systematically oppressing the other
Myth #1: Israel is guilty of “genocide” in Gaza.
The term “genocide” has a clear meaning—it’s the destruction or attempted destruction of a whole people.
Yes , 95% of people starving in the world were in Gaza when Israel chose to withhold aid to them. That is the attempted destruction of a whole people
Not sure why you are debating semantics here, as that statement is just straight up wrong, which can be easily confirmed by taking a single look at article 2 of the Genocide Convention (emphasis mine):
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such
Speaking of the genocide convention, let’s see what experts on the subject are saying about it:
ICJ Ruling archived here
Experts on Genocide at US Court on the issue
800+ Legal Scholars on International Law and Genocide on whether it amounts to genocide
Law for Palestine Releases Database with 500+ Instances of Israeli Incitement to Genocide
that sweet copium around here, even on lemmy, that’s so sweet
I feel like this is a little too accurate for shitpost. I don’t know the proper sub for it, but it’s pretty true.
Do you think they’d accept it on memes?
“Bad faith arguments” is not a reason to flag people in Lemmy Shitpost. Please do not abuse the flagging system again.
Then what good is your moderation? The whole fucking point of having you around is TO police bad faith arguing. That’s what mods are for
Mods are for enforcing community rules. This is a shitpost community, not a debate community. The rules are very clear on the sidebar and ‘bad faith arguments’ is not one of them.
Feel free to find a different community if you want to report ‘bad faith arguments’ multiple times. If you do it here, I’m going to tell you to stop before I act. Because I prefer give warnings.
And you can’t enforce ANY rule without protecting your people against bad faith arguing. It’s a foundation of ALL communities, whether explicitly written in its guidelines or not, because meaningful debate is the foundation of ALL human interaction and is primarily what abuse and harassment is.
The needs of your people are more important than your laziness, selfishness, and unwillingness to do your job. Don’t like it? Step the fuck down. You go find a different community to play king over if you don’t like it.
Okay, I think you need to take a break. We’ll see you in a week. I wouldn’t advise telling another mod to ‘step the fuck down.’ They might be less lenient.
I wouldn’t advise telling another mod to ‘step the fuck down.’
“Dont tell people abusing their power that they are abusing their power or they might abuse their power”
Yeah you should probably step down if that is your opinion…
@snek@lemmy.world Maybe you could Crosspost this to !politicalmemes@lemmy.ca if you’re on mobile and don’t have crosspost button just make a new post using the same link as this post
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/20e095d5-b044-4e69-b1d7-486f63ac3037.pngand it’ll count as a crosspost. So long as it’s the same link.Feel free to do it yourself
While the real life situation this is based off is quite sad and upsetting…
This is hilarious beyond belief.
