The meme is broadly generalizing Israel as a homogenic society that casually murders children on a regular basis and omits that Israel is in fact a diverse society. By doing so it reproduces the ancient antisemitic trope of ritual child murder and blood libel. Neo-Nazis and other racist antisemites would therefore love this meme. From an antifascist perspective this meme is absolutely unacceptable.
That is an antisemitic generalization. The government and military of a nation is only a subgroup of it´s society. How would you like to be held responsible for the actions of your government and military, even if you did not vote for them and don´t agree with what they are doing?
Ok, I’ll correct that to ‘Israel as a nation casually murders children on a regular basis’ to be more accurate then.
Well, that is at least a start. Now could we agree to switch “Israel as a nation” with “The right-extremist government of Israel, it´s military and the ultra-nationalist settler movement” please?
Sus af though that you claimed that a meme criticizing Israel as a nation for killing kids was an attack against all Jews
A nation includes all of it´s citizens, so that is a weird argument that seems to have only one goal, to be a killer argument against any critique of antisemitic propaganda against Israel.
How is generalizing all citizens of Israel -who as we know are mainly Jewish people- as casual child murderers not classic antisemitism? Please include in your consideration, that the narrative of child sacrifice and blood libel is one of the oldest antisemitic tropes there is and put the meme in a context with that fact.
Well, that is at least a start. Now could we agree to switch “Israel as a nation” with “The right-extremist government of Israel, it´s military and the ultra-nationalist settler movement” please?
Israel “as a nation” has been doing this since its inception in 1948. It has never been anything besides an ultra-nationalist settler movement. I suspect you either greatly lack historical context or are arguing in bad faith tbh.
Now could we agree to switch “Israel as a nation” with “The right-extremist government of Israel, it´s military and the ultra-nationalist settler movement” please?
No we can’t, fuck off. Israel is an apartheid state and Zionism is an European settler-colonial movement.
Du scheinst die Art Mensch zu sein welche möglichst simple Narrative bevorzugt und die Welt klar in gut und böse aufteilt. Daher kein Interesse an einer Diskussion, danke und schönen Tag noch.
You seem like the kind of person who runs defense for apartheid and genocide to avoid having to question your unwavering loyalty to the people who rule you, this was never a conversation worth having so I thank you for saving me the effort.
You seem to be the kind of person who prefers simple narratives and clearly divides the world into good and evil. Therefore no interest in a discussion, thank you and have a nice day.
It’s cute how you’re staying safe in your mind palace and arguing about hypothetical settlers who don’t support what’s going on.
You know what your hypothetical virtuous perpetrators of a genocide can do if they actually feel that way? Fucking leave. They can fucking leave and go back where they came from and give back the homes they stole.
It’s cute how you’re staying safe in your mind palace and arguing about hypothetical settlers who don’t support what’s going on.
Excuse me? What are you even talking about? Every single time I mentioned settlers in this thread, I did so only to blame them for the situation and called them ultra-nationalists, who are one of the groups who should be criticized alongside the government and the military. So please stop projecting so wildly and instead go with what i actually wrote, otherwise there is no basis for a discussion, thank you.
You know what your hypothetical virtuous perpetrators of a genocide can do if they actually feel that way? Fucking leave. They can fucking leave and go back where they came from and give back the homes they stole.
Calling out antisemitic propaganda when I see it does neither equal taking sides in the conflict nor does it equal supporting illegal settlements of racist neo-nazi expansionist assholes who murder Palestinian olive farmers.
You should really stop projecting so much, communication becomes impossible like this.
This dumb motherfucker keeps using the word ‘projecting’ whenever someone calls them on imagining what Jewish Israelis think
Do you think they’re smart enough to recognize the irony of that before it’s explicitly spelled out to them? I say no. They’re dumb as shit. Like most fascists.
Calling out antisemitic propaganda when I see it does neither equal taking sides in the conflict nor does it equal supporting illegal settlements of racist neo-nazi expansionist assholes who murder Palestinian olive farmers.
Fucking idiot here thinks the west bank is the first time Zionists did an ethnic cleansing
You should really stop projecting so much, communication becomes impossible like this.
Piles and piles of children with photographic evidence and multiple parties saying it happened: blood libel
40 babies being beheaded according to hearsay from 1 IOF soldier with no one able to verify the existence of the alleged video: totally real and not blood libel; we must exterminate these savages!
This seems like a derailing attempt but you are touching a point that I strongly feel about. How the western governments and media are spinning a narrative of good Israel vs evil Palestinians is sickening me every day. It´s obviously just war time propaganda and not journalism. The western politicians constant repetitions of unlimited solidarity with Israel, while at the same time nobody even mentions solidarity with Palestinians is a huge shame for the west and unmasks all claims of moral superiority. This gets even more ridiculous when you compare the body counts of both sides and see that the losses of the Palestinians are always so much higher. Also, Gaza population is super dense so imo every bomb dropped there by IDF equals a war crime. I could go on like this much longer but I think you can get I don´t have a one dimensional view on the conflict.
Nothing of that justifies posting antisemitic memes that call all citizens of Israel child murderers though. Let´s criticize the ones responsible instead, the right-extremist government that is full of racists, their military which bombs civilians and the ultra-nationalist settler movement.
From my antifascist perspective, an Apartheid state killing children is what is truly absolutely unacceptable. If diverse sectors of that society are not OK with war, Apartheid and murdering civilians, it’s on them to mobilize to stop that, not on the rest of the world to refrain from criticism just because the human rights violations their state actually commits are similar to delusional bigoted tropes about their religion. Also, criticizing the actions of a State, even a religious one, is not hate speech.
From my antifascist perspective, an Apartheid state killing children is what is truly absolutely unacceptable.
That´s an obvious attempt to derail from topic and a weird thing to compare a meme with but I fully agree with the statement itself.
If diverse sectors of that society are not OK with war, Apartheid and murdering civilians, it’s on them to mobilize to stop that
What are you organizing to stop the crimes of your government? Would you like to be held responsible for the crimes of your government and it´s military, even if you did not vote for them?
not on the rest of the world to refrain from criticism just because the human rights violations their state actually commits are similar to delusional bigoted tropes about their religion.
Of course not but that criticism should be smart and differentiated. If it´s too generalizing, like this one, it can easily come across as antisemitic.
Also, criticizing the actions of a State, even a religious one, is not hate speech.
Maybe there is a misunderstanding? I assumed the national flag represents not just the state of a nation but also all of it´s citizens?
Israel is not Judaism and it’s not an ethnic group by your own admission. The idea that the Jewish people employ dark magic rituals that murder and consume children is antisemitic. The idea that the police and military of Israel, with the public at broad’s supports, kills children in the interest of national security is not.
We can distinguish between the two. You don’t seem to separate them, which is antisemitic.
Blood Libel refers to the belief that Judaism incorporates the murder and consumption of (mainly) Christian children. Conflating this idea with what this meme is clearly referring to (what happening in Palestine) reinforces the Zionist propaganda that Zionism (and therefore the actual ethnic cleansing that Zionists are currently doing) is intrinsic to Judaism and should be immune from criticism on religious grounds.
But I suspect you are aware of that and are here in bad faith, so in short: no u
Yes the “Jewish state” is a diverse society. Where the the first class citizens are all “good jews” recognized by the state. Any lesser Jews or god forbid Arab peoples are second class citizens.
From an antifascist perspective this meme is absolutely unacceptable
Imagine being this fragile of a person. Log off now lmao.
Yes the “Jewish state” is a diverse society. Where the the first class citizens are all “good jews” recognized by the state. Any lesser Jews or god forbid Arab peoples are second class citizens.
I condemn the racist politics of the right-extremist government of Israel and the social segregation and severe injustice it causes. What is your point?
From an antifascist perspective this meme is absolutely unacceptable
There was this thing you all constantly choose to ignore, called the holocaust, that afaik not just a lot of antifascists see as a reason why Israel must exist, simply because otherwise the Jews will not survive capitalism.
Imagine being this fragile of a person. Log off now lmao.
I condemn the racist politics of the right-extremist government of Israel and the social segregation and severe injustice it causes. What is your point?
Israel is an apartheid state, this isn’t new, this isn’t something that the current government did, this is the establishing principle of the state that has been held up since the start, calling an apartheid state “diverse” like you did in your first post is absolutely incorrect and is not close to the reality of the situation in any way shape or form, it’s pure propaganda
There was this thing you all constantly choose to ignore, called the holocaust, that afaik not just a lot of antifascists see as a reason why Israel must exist, simply because otherwise the Jews will not survive capitalism.
having suffered in the past does not give a group of people free reign to commit those same acts against a separate unaffiliated population, having an ethnostate in the first place is not a good goal, but even if we said it was necessary, doing it through the ethnic cleansing and genocide of another group is not at all justifiable in any way.
treating things as if jews are simply different from regular people and could never survive as a minority in another country so they should not be judged by the same standard we apply to everyone is in itself an anti-semitic view to have, jews are regular people, committing genocide and ethnic cleansing is bad, whoever does it and however noble their goal is doesn’t change that fact.
There was this thing you all constantly choose to ignore, called the holocaust, that afaik not just a lot of antifascists see as a reason why Israel must exist
the vast majority of jewish people in eastern europe post-war didn’t migrate to either the autonomous oblast the USSR set up or Israel and chose instead to live in the eastern bloc or USSR proper, so they probably count as ‘a lot of antifascists’ that don’t see a reason for Israel’s existence
Dying on the hill that ANY criticism of the actions taken by Israel: The State is inherently anti-semitic full stop is an intentionally false argument used to excuse the actions of said state - usually by other fascists who wish to emulate their tiered citizenship/civil rights system for Palestinians where they live for whichever group they don’t like.
The meme is broadly generalizing Israel as a homogenic society that casually murders children on a regular basis and omits that Israel is in fact a diverse society. By doing so it reproduces the ancient antisemitic trope of ritual child murder and blood libel. Neo-Nazis and other racist antisemites would therefore love this meme. From an antifascist perspective this meme is absolutely unacceptable.
Israel is a nation that casually murders children on a regular basis though
That is an antisemitic generalization. The government and military of a nation is only a subgroup of it´s society. How would you like to be held responsible for the actions of your government and military, even if you did not vote for them and don´t agree with what they are doing?
Ok, I’ll correct that to ‘Israel as a nation casually murders children on a regular basis’ to be more accurate then.
Sus though that you claimed that a meme criticising Israel as a nation for killing kids was an attack against all jews
Well, that is at least a start. Now could we agree to switch “Israel as a nation” with “The right-extremist government of Israel, it´s military and the ultra-nationalist settler movement” please?
A nation includes all of it´s citizens, so that is a weird argument that seems to have only one goal, to be a killer argument against any critique of antisemitic propaganda against Israel.
How is generalizing all citizens of Israel -who as we know are mainly Jewish people- as casual child murderers not classic antisemitism? Please include in your consideration, that the narrative of child sacrifice and blood libel is one of the oldest antisemitic tropes there is and put the meme in a context with that fact.
Israel “as a nation” has been doing this since its inception in 1948. It has never been anything besides an ultra-nationalist settler movement. I suspect you either greatly lack historical context or are arguing in bad faith tbh.
I can see the true part in this oversimplifying generalization.
The same could be said about many countries. Are you by any chance a US american?
The fact that somebody has a different opinion than you does not mean neither.
This will not be the own you think it will
“if Palestinians deserve their land back, so do the Sioux, Cherokee, Seminole and all the other tribes”
“Yes”
Quit being a redditor, it’s embarrassing.
That is a serious offence, reported! /s
This is how complete fucking idiots who never leave their mind palace cope with being told they’re wrong about something
It’s also how fascists erase all content and context from a disagreement and try to whine about civility.
Sorry but if you don´t have anything to say, please just be quiet instead of spamming out of context nonsense - blocked …
No we can’t, fuck off. Israel is an apartheid state and Zionism is an European settler-colonial movement.
Du scheinst die Art Mensch zu sein welche möglichst simple Narrative bevorzugt und die Welt klar in gut und böse aufteilt. Daher kein Interesse an einer Diskussion, danke und schönen Tag noch.
Dein kringeliger Avatar prüft so was von aus.
You seem like the kind of person who runs defense for apartheid and genocide to avoid having to question your unwavering loyalty to the people who rule you, this was never a conversation worth having so I thank you for saving me the effort.
Quote or it didn’t happen :)
Project much?
And the tantrum begins in earnest
Hope you follow your leader, nazi
Pardon? That seems like a baseless accusation, care to elaborate?
@TranslatorBot@lemmygrad.ml English
translation
You seem to be the kind of person who prefers simple narratives and clearly divides the world into good and evil. Therefore no interest in a discussion, thank you and have a nice day.
Your curly avatar is so testing.
This text was translated using DeepL.
It’s cute how you’re staying safe in your mind palace and arguing about hypothetical settlers who don’t support what’s going on.
You know what your hypothetical virtuous perpetrators of a genocide can do if they actually feel that way? Fucking leave. They can fucking leave and go back where they came from and give back the homes they stole.
Excuse me? What are you even talking about? Every single time I mentioned settlers in this thread, I did so only to blame them for the situation and called them ultra-nationalists, who are one of the groups who should be criticized alongside the government and the military. So please stop projecting so wildly and instead go with what i actually wrote, otherwise there is no basis for a discussion, thank you.
Calling out antisemitic propaganda when I see it does neither equal taking sides in the conflict nor does it equal supporting illegal settlements of racist neo-nazi expansionist assholes who murder Palestinian olive farmers.
You should really stop projecting so much, communication becomes impossible like this.
This dumb motherfucker keeps using the word ‘projecting’ whenever someone calls them on imagining what Jewish Israelis think
Do you think they’re smart enough to recognize the irony of that before it’s explicitly spelled out to them? I say no. They’re dumb as shit. Like most fascists.
Fucking idiot here thinks the west bank is the first time Zionists did an ethnic cleansing
Fucking good. Shut the fuck up.
You are not adding any thing to the discussion at this point, please stop spamming.
Chew shit from my ass zionist
Oh, and you are? You’re in here pulling a “not all men” about criticism of Israel.
Conflating Israel’s actions with Judaism as a whole is extremely antisemitic in its own right.
Israel’s regime does casually murder children on a regular basis, it is not antisemitic to say that.
If you’re suggesting ignoring the fact, just because “Neo-nazis might like it”, I can’t stand with you.
I fully agree with your statement. However, calling out antisemitic propaganda aimed at Israel does not equal doing that imo.
I fully agree with that one too and would be fine with the meme if it would have an IDF flag or a Bibi face instead of the Israel flag.
I am not exactly sure what you mean, please elaborate.
Piles and piles of children with photographic evidence and multiple parties saying it happened: blood libel
40 babies being beheaded according to hearsay from 1 IOF soldier with no one able to verify the existence of the alleged video: totally real and not blood libel; we must exterminate these savages!
This seems like a derailing attempt but you are touching a point that I strongly feel about. How the western governments and media are spinning a narrative of good Israel vs evil Palestinians is sickening me every day. It´s obviously just war time propaganda and not journalism. The western politicians constant repetitions of unlimited solidarity with Israel, while at the same time nobody even mentions solidarity with Palestinians is a huge shame for the west and unmasks all claims of moral superiority. This gets even more ridiculous when you compare the body counts of both sides and see that the losses of the Palestinians are always so much higher. Also, Gaza population is super dense so imo every bomb dropped there by IDF equals a war crime. I could go on like this much longer but I think you can get I don´t have a one dimensional view on the conflict.
Nothing of that justifies posting antisemitic memes that call all citizens of Israel child murderers though. Let´s criticize the ones responsible instead, the right-extremist government that is full of racists, their military which bombs civilians and the ultra-nationalist settler movement.
they’re all settlers
Not only is solidarity with Palestinian frowned upon, the US’ only Palestinian lawmaker was censured and publicly shamed for advocating for Palestine.
Luckily, the US is the only country not calling it genocide or war crimes.
Unluckily, really solidifies that we’re gonna be the baddies in WW3.
From my antifascist perspective, an Apartheid state killing children is what is truly absolutely unacceptable. If diverse sectors of that society are not OK with war, Apartheid and murdering civilians, it’s on them to mobilize to stop that, not on the rest of the world to refrain from criticism just because the human rights violations their state actually commits are similar to delusional bigoted tropes about their religion. Also, criticizing the actions of a State, even a religious one, is not hate speech.
That´s an obvious attempt to derail from topic and a weird thing to compare a meme with but I fully agree with the statement itself.
What are you organizing to stop the crimes of your government? Would you like to be held responsible for the crimes of your government and it´s military, even if you did not vote for them?
Of course not but that criticism should be smart and differentiated. If it´s too generalizing, like this one, it can easily come across as antisemitic.
Maybe there is a misunderstanding? I assumed the national flag represents not just the state of a nation but also all of it´s citizens?
America deserved 9/11
Hey look a genocide denier
Israel is not Judaism and it’s not an ethnic group by your own admission. The idea that the Jewish people employ dark magic rituals that murder and consume children is antisemitic. The idea that the police and military of Israel, with the public at broad’s supports, kills children in the interest of national security is not.
We can distinguish between the two. You don’t seem to separate them, which is antisemitic.
Blood Libel refers to the belief that Judaism incorporates the murder and consumption of (mainly) Christian children. Conflating this idea with what this meme is clearly referring to (what happening in Palestine) reinforces the Zionist propaganda that Zionism (and therefore the actual ethnic cleansing that Zionists are currently doing) is intrinsic to Judaism and should be immune from criticism on religious grounds.
But I suspect you are aware of that and are here in bad faith, so in short: no u
Thought this was a bit until I saw the name lmao
You don’t get to call other people neo-nazis when you’re the one defending a genocidal ethnostate.
I never did that, you are a either liar or tripping.
People can see what your original comment was in the modlog, idiot. lmao
I know about modlog of course, what are even you implying? Also, please behave, no reason to get offensive.
Removed by mod
Yes the “Jewish state” is a diverse society. Where the the first class citizens are all “good jews” recognized by the state. Any lesser Jews or god forbid Arab peoples are second class citizens.
Imagine being this fragile of a person. Log off now lmao.
I condemn the racist politics of the right-extremist government of Israel and the social segregation and severe injustice it causes. What is your point?
There was this thing you all constantly choose to ignore, called the holocaust, that afaik not just a lot of antifascists see as a reason why Israel must exist, simply because otherwise the Jews will not survive capitalism.
But I´m having so much fun with you guys here?!
Israel is an apartheid state, this isn’t new, this isn’t something that the current government did, this is the establishing principle of the state that has been held up since the start, calling an apartheid state “diverse” like you did in your first post is absolutely incorrect and is not close to the reality of the situation in any way shape or form, it’s pure propaganda
having suffered in the past does not give a group of people free reign to commit those same acts against a separate unaffiliated population, having an ethnostate in the first place is not a good goal, but even if we said it was necessary, doing it through the ethnic cleansing and genocide of another group is not at all justifiable in any way.
treating things as if jews are simply different from regular people and could never survive as a minority in another country so they should not be judged by the same standard we apply to everyone is in itself an anti-semitic view to have, jews are regular people, committing genocide and ethnic cleansing is bad, whoever does it and however noble their goal is doesn’t change that fact.
the vast majority of jewish people in eastern europe post-war didn’t migrate to either the autonomous oblast the USSR set up or Israel and chose instead to live in the eastern bloc or USSR proper, so they probably count as ‘a lot of antifascists’ that don’t see a reason for Israel’s existence
Conflating Judaism and Zionism is antisemitism.
Zionism originated from Christianity, has nothing to do with Judaism
A lot of Judaism is flat out incompatible with Zionism
The Nazis were huge supporters of Zionism
Palestinians are semites too
You are falling for fascist propaganda.
shut up when people these days cry boohoo antisemitism about Israel’s actions i give no fucks
Chapeau! Thank you for this eloquent contribution, which has enriched the discussion immensely!
Dying on the hill that ANY criticism of the actions taken by Israel: The State is inherently anti-semitic full stop is an intentionally false argument used to excuse the actions of said state - usually by other fascists who wish to emulate their tiered citizenship/civil rights system for Palestinians where they live for whichever group they don’t like.
deleted by creator