I am of the age to have kids, some of my friends have them, but I have mixed feelings about it, just wondering about other people’s experiences.
Mid 30s here. When i was younger i never wanted kids. I would always tell my parents i never wanted any as well. Fast forward about 15-20 years, people would tell me im great with kids and i should have some. The problem with this is that i am great with kids for about 2-3 hours and then im like…get this thing away from me. People have also told me that its different when they are your own.
Well one day i booked an appointment to get a vasectomy and havent looked back yet. I also got married to someone who shares the same feelings as me towards having no kids. Life is great and havent thought of any regrets.
People have told me that I’m good with kids too. But here’s the thing…it’s actually super easy to give a child attention and follow them around for several hours. I’m not sure why people praise me for it. I guess because some people don’t care enough to give the kids the time of day or something?
But the not easy part is the taking care of them eternally thing. Parenting through meltdowns…always being there 24/7/365 with no breaks…having to always feed and clean them…etc. The list goes on.
I know it’s dark to say, but one of the things I fear I’d do is end up with one of those parents who is driven crazy and inadvertently kills their child from shaken baby syndrome.
My husband once said to me, “this is a terrible thing to say, and I don’t want you to feel bad, but you do seem like the type who might shake a baby” - I was sterilized by then so it was funny vs insulting.
Broo I feel that lol I am probably too mentally unstable for that shit. Who knows, tho.
At least when people only have one child, it almost seems maybe manageable. But people for some reason never seem to stop at one!
No and no. I don’t think I’d want to subject my kids to where the world is headed. Also, too much of a long-term commitment that would significantly reduce my opportunities to do what I want, travel etc.
Those are both among the main arguments I have against having any.
As for the travel argument, kids are so much fun to travel with! Experiencing new places through a child’s eyes!? They ask some great questions, and you get to hone in your own opinions as you decide the best way to explain life to them. Travel is the best way to raise tolerant and knowledgeable children. If you’re concerned about more… hedonistic travel just realize that you only get 18 to 20 years with them in your daily life, those designations will still be there. If you’re afraid that’s a long time then you likely haven’t had your 20th high school reunion yet.
As to the latter, I’m roughly satisfied in the department of things that kids would preclude.
As to the former, that’s part of the reason I want kids. I care about the people who will live in the future. I want a better life for them.
I can do what I can to improve the world in my life, but someone needs to carry the torch. Kids are an opportunity to teach some subset of the future population my values. I want to learn from my parents’ mistakes and my own life to make better kids that become better parents, who make better kids who become better parents, so on and so forth ad infinitum.
The intro to Idiocracy can be generalized: the world will be populated by the children of those who have children. If only the worst people reproduce, the future will be worse. Unless the ethical people reproduce and pass on their values, those values will die out. If we want the future to be better, we have to have kids, teach them to be better, and teach them to teach their kids to be better.
So my wife and I are child-free by choice. I’m in a rare position that I wind up speaking to many people in-depth about their lives, and the folks who have children talk about raising their kids all the time.
If I’m honest, many, many days I think “the moral of the story here is do not have kids, foks”.
That’s not to say that it’s all bad for everyone, but it is very bad for a lot of people. Essentially, their lives become exclusively about managing their children’s problems. Everyone thinks their children will be well mannered, sweet and thoughtful little guys who will fill their hearts with joy and purpose. The reality is many children are little nightmares with behavior problems that don’t seem to improve no matter how much work they put into seeing child psychologists and play therapists- every single day they spend 3-4 hours trying to calm their kid down as they fly into an uncontrollable rage, overturning tables and swinging their arms as hard as they can at the care givers and their parents. They want to help their kids learn how to control their feelings but they can’t. It’s really sad. The parents live in hell a little, every hour of the day is spent trying to manage their screaming, raging child.
I will also tell you that many people have tried to convince me over the years that we should have children. Family members, neighbors, co-workers… I also once had a neighbor (who’s kids were little terrors, I once saw one take a swing at his face because he was being punished, and they also once threw BIG rocks over the wall separating our properties without seeing where they’d land) say to me: “You just get to do whatever you want, don’t you?” when I was getting in the car to leave to go work remotely out in the countryside for a week.
My point is people don’t often tell you how hard it can be, most people lie and say that it’s great. At least half a dozen times I’ve had parents say “now I don’t wish that my child was gone or would never have been born as such, but I do often long for a life where I didn’t have to take care of them all the time”. Like they DO wish they never had kids, but they have to be careful to say they don’t want their child to disappear because its too dark of a thing to say.
Yeah, whenever people describe what it’s like to have children or whenever I happen to observe it for myself, it looks like literal hell on earth. People try to choose their words carefully to not say how miserable they are, but I can see it. You can’t even sleep anymore. Sleep deprivation is literally a torture technique.
And I mean…I get that some people have to have kids in order for the human race to continue to exist. And I’m glad my parents had me and that I got to experience life. But I just don’t know that I could do that myself. I don’t think that I could selflessly endure torture every day for years and years just to try to help another human being survive. I would like to think that I am a giving person, but not to that degree.
Eh, I’ve got five kids and they run the gamut from incredibly cool to assholes. One is pretty accomplished professionally and made sure to find ways for both her dad and me (step-dad) in her wedding. Another went no contact over the divorce/remarriage of her mom. Another has struggled with addiction and mental health, but has overcome the former at least and recently graduated and is working as a nurse. The last two are still at home and one has emotional issues and some autism and weaponized incompetence, the other is hard working and responsible and has drive balanced with emotional maturity (though hormones are kicking in so…)
In my opinion, there is too much emphasis on being perfect parents and having perfect kids leading perfect lives. We love them all and make sure they know it. We try to set healthy boundaries and allow them the same. But at the end of the day, they are people and they are going to struggle and much of that is out of our control beyond being here with advice and help in times of crisis.
And even the assholes are pretty cool in their own right. Not fun to parent, but still people who I think are great to have in your life.
I do occasionally lament the path not taken, but if I didn’t have kids this would be the path I lament. (Probably just a smaller house and nicer vacations.)
I’m not trying to convince you, but I want to put in a word as a parent of assholes who sometimes daydreams about where my life might be without kids. It was a good decision for me. And if I didn’t have them to be accountable to, my depression might well have gotten hold of me in a moment of weakness and I wouldn’t be here to write this. My kids don’t make me happy (well, sometimes) and it’s not their job to, but I’m very glad I had them.
Thats all fair. I wrote what I wrote for OP, though, and I’m truly confident my wife and I made the right choice for us. I’ve also never felt babies or toddlers were cute. Yesterday, I went shopping for dress shoes, and there was a family there with a kid who was maybe 7, and he flopped down on a bench and shouted “PHONE” and his father handed him his iphone so the kid could watch youtube videos.
We’re going to Tenerife for 10 days in a week or so, and we’re looking at a 2 berth campervan to shoot off around Ireland in as well. l also just booked 5 days going to Valencia, Spain and then up to Barcelona by train to see my favorite band, Bad Religion play a show in both of those cities. I have a full time(ish) job that I actually like and also have time to try to make money doing my creative things, which is actually growing year on year.
I am also very aware of overpopulation. The planet has twice as many people now as it did in the 70s. It cannot endure continued human expansion when everyone wants their own house and car and swimming pools.
That’s all fair. We still vacation, although they are sanitized “family” vacations for the most part. Plus we aren’t the kind of people who want to be tooling about foreign countries without a curated experience. Take us to your beaches, cuisine, alcohol, and cultural artifacts.
You have a lot of work flexibility for those vacations. I can work remotely, but usually I’m not allowed to take my equipment out of the country to do so. My wife has a lot less flexibility. So we are limited by time more than anything else. We live modestly and I make a good living for the cost of living here. Kids would certainly put a damper on that lifestyle, but in our case, they aren’t holding us back.
Overpopulation is a whole other thing, of course. Looks to me like we’re headed toward another global conflict or pandemic that might resolve that in part. Not saying that’s a good thing, but I think life has a way of correcting imbalance whether you do it voluntarily or not. I certainly don’t want my kids to have to live through that, but like most other things, that’s out of my control and I can only help where I can and hope for the best.
Not to argue your decisions, but you might want to take another look at your over-population if that’s a concern.
Yes, we seem to be passing a sustainable level of population and too many people are still held in poverty partly by over-population. However the long term trend is the opposite. By all studies, population will plateau in the next few decades, then start to decrease. While that also sounds good, it looks like it is likely to drop fast. We are more likely to have instability and disruption caused by population falling too rapidly.
If replacement value for a stable population is about 2.1 children per women, most developed countries are already well below that and their populations will drop significantly as older larger generations pass. Was it Korea that hit 1.1? That means cutting their population in half over the space of one generation While I have no idea how to fix the chronic war state between the Koreas, a sudden (in one generation) loss of both population and economy is all too likely to be seen as an opportunity for the war state to turn hot.
Even in the US, we’re a bit protected but our birth rate is well below replacement value. We’re still growing in both population and economy on the strength of immigration. Most countries don’t benefit from that and current politics may impact this and cause us to start shrinking as well. While some is a good thing, a lot of shrinking too quickly can be equally bad as overpopulation. We need to figure out how to stabilize at a reasonable birth rate more like 2.0, to steadily reduce population without disruption
I did some research on the population today. Every page I’ve looked at says it’s going to peak around the 2080’s at around 10.4 billion and then start declining.
When you say that’s “not good” do you mean economically or environmentally? I am concerned about biodiversity die-off, deforestation, ocean acidification etc etc… I am not concerned about economics. I know the latter can effect the former, but nothing will effect it like levelling the amazonian rainforest so every person gets to eat the beef they believe they’re entitled to
That’s at least as much a lifestyle question. As more people develop higher living standards, they tend to copy those before them. Ecologically we can’t afford for all the developing countries to live like the US, even with a much smaller population
But yeah, I’m more concerned about economies. Unstable economies tend to lead to wars and oppression. The only thing worse than our current environmental exploitation is human suffering, and we need to develop a more sustainable lifestyle that avoids that.
If you look at history of environmental protection, you’ll see that generally wealthier countries can afford more of it. If we want people to be able to afford taking care of our environment, they need to have a stable economy and be relatively well off.
I mean I dont disagree with anything youre saying. Wait, I actually disagree that human suffering is worse than a global extinction event. I often play druids when I play d&d though, so there you go
I’m 56 and I thank God weekly that I don’t have kids, especially in today’s political climate in a time of unprecedented corporate greed.
I also very much enjoy my personal freedom.
I have one child, now adult, who reminds me every day that she didn’t ask to be born and wishes she hadn’t been. It’s hard to explain to someone without the life experience of it all but I couldn’t have known how shit the world was about to get when she was born (summer 2001) so it seemed like a good idea at the time. Every single day of her life has been hard both for her and us in various ways. And I wish the world was gentler for her.
Suffice to say, I can’t believe there are any people actively trying to bring new people in to the world right now. Shit has been bleak as fuck for decades and it gets worse every day. Even the new plague didn’t help. I feel bad enough knowing the world she was introduced to is so terrible but I didn’t know it was going to be. But now? Guys it’s actually very bad, how could you present this to a new innocent person like,”here’s life! Enjoy!” Pass.
Probably people who don’t actually think about stuff like that.
One of the most stressful things about having kids is that it forces you to never un-know stuff like that.
I feel like I should have a kid but I’ll never meet a woman that wants me plus me being poor. It’s a terrible combination.
My moral philosophy is to leave the world a better place than I found it, to have an overall positive impact.
In order to justify siring children I would need to balance it out somehow, like by raising multiple foster care children first or by donating sperm.
Good lord, calm down superstar
Only have children if you are ready to give up your own comfort and freedom to provide an environment for them that they deserve and will thrive in. I have 3 kids and knew that it was a huge commitment, but that still won’t prepare you for exactly what that means. You wake up when your child wakes up, regardless of how much sleep you’ve had or if you stayed up late to have some hard-to-find personal time with your significant other or alone. Children crave attention and deserve to have a locked-in parent so when they are awake, scrolling on social media or watching your TV show instead of interacting with your kid playing on the floor is a disservice to them. Some of your closest friends before children are often not compatible with the vision you have for your family and it requires you to cut some people out of your life that you honestly valued before you were responsible for the development of another human. There are many sacrifices that really shocked my system to get accustomed to, but it has been worth the trouble. Just remember that they come first above your comfort and wishes because they didn’t ask to be here and your choice to bring them into this world means that your are responsible for creating an environment for them to feel safe and loved.
Had baby fever for about 2 years before my husband got his and we initially wanted at least 2. Had our son and the fever never returned. I didn’t want to have another to appease society and end up with a child that I honestly would have regretted. I’m now happily one and done with an 8 year old. When things aren’t going well, I have to remind myself and especially my husband that he’s a child.
I really want to have kids for a long time already, but just recently I got into a spot in life where it seems financially and personality-wise an option. For a long time I was aware that there still was a lot to develop in myself. I also wanted to see and do things, which came a bit short unfortunately, for said financially reasons. I am stillt super afraid of how things will turn out, if I am built for the strain, if I will love my kid(s) enough, teach them enough and at the same time if job-wise everything will work. I really worked hard for the job I now have, but it is science-related and tnerefore I will never see a contract which lasts longer than three years. But I just know that I will regret not having at least one kid.
No, no, and no.
Same for my wife.
My only concern is the future Idiocracy of the world, but I don’t think my having a kid would’ve fixed that anyway.
I have kids and love it. There is 100% more trampoline in my life because of them. Mine are both autistic and have quirky interests which we’ve leaned into (visited the fan museum, attended the international carwash convention, and have spent countless hours at home depot, etc), so that’s a little bit of a bonus. I have friends who don’t have kids and are equally as happy. You just gotta choose the right path for you.
My wife and I have two sons, and it’s an obscene amount of work, but there’s nothing better than the simple joy of seeing them excel at something they love, or seeing their pride at a success.
You’re giving up proper sleep for a decade, and you’re forever ceding your ability to not worry about another person’s wellbeing, but on the whole it’s worth it.
The early years are punishing, there’s no way around it, but it gets easier as they get older.
Didnt want kids had them anyways. Best decision ever if you are going to be a good parent to them.
In this economy???!
People had children in conditions way worse than this. Children and their patents used to suffer and die all the time. Yet they are the expression of hope and confidence in our species. And while I agree that it’s not looking great for us, I refuse to give up, roll on my back and wait to go extinct in an aging, dying world.
Honestly I don’t care. What is special about our species anyway? And if I ever wanted kids, I would want them to be born into a reasonable society, not into this skewed and twisted society where greed and ownership is the main goal.
