Tell me you’re American without telling me you’re American.
Ok let me try: bulletproof backpacks.
I remember when Michael Moore’s “Sicko” came out a long time ago and the country was just as riled up as they are now. History repeats. After a while they will arrest the shooter and this will all die back down.
There was a movie in the 2000s that pointed out how fucked up US healthcare is.
Very little changed.
John Q?
Kid gets denied a heart transplant so the dad takes the entire ER hostage until he gets one?
One of the best TV shows of all time is premised on our broken healthcare system.
Wrong answers only…
Fallout
House
Ya, I remember Bowling for Columbine. You’re right - it doesn’t change.
There are also advocates who can help you navigate the insurance nightmare. We had to do it when I needed surgery a few years ago.
Its only illegal once you are prosecuted for it. That is how businesses operate. Its not just regulation we need but a justice system that has some teeth
I guess I get hung up on the whole:
Everyone knows this is true; it’s not a secret in any way. But it’s a violation of a number of regulations
bit.
So it seems like we could very easily stop these corporations from literally killing people with already existing regulations we are just choosing not to. COOL.
Bold assumption that “we” (meaning the government) includes anyone actually reading this, because as far as I can tell the only “we” the government considers is capital owners. Unless you’re proposing some alternate method of behavior alteration.
It’s wild that Americans accept this idiotic healthcare system.
The first card fell last week
There’s too much to get into but the short version is we literally aren’t given a choice. People here idiotically vote against their own self interests and nothing anyone has tried to fix the problem has worked.
The sad part is that it doesn’t seem to matter who’s voting for who. I was a lead HIPAA security engineer at Blue Cross Blue Shield, and I architected some of the new EMR access auth systems. But I also got to see how ugly the inside of the insurance industry is. It was so depressing that even though they offered me a generous 6 figure salary, I had to quit for my own mental and emotional health. Their lobbyists have way more money than votes matter to begin with, that’s why I had to leave the industry for my own sanity.
We don’t accept it. We were born into it, and the powers that be are bought and paid for. Tis bullshit.
we don’t get a say, it’s up to how much money they can make off us. system is rigged hard unless you have money or a ghost gun apparentlym
We don’t get a say, but half the country will defend this shit and excuse it before they’ll accept any socialized medicine. And they vote accordingly.
Medicare for All is broadly popular. We’re just stuck with a two-party system that has been captured by corporate interests. We can’t vote third party until we get proportional representation like SPAV.
Hey now, we have some of the best healthcare in the world if you can afford it, and healthcare stats that demonstrate just how few people that actually is.
Unfortunately there are people here in Canada who think it’s a better system. 😕
From an American: I’m so sorry our idiocy is bleeding into our neighbors up North. Learn from our mistakes!
Tell everyone you know that our healthcare literally bankrupts our working class, and that we still have crazy wait times for appointments due to our staffing shortages! Tell them there is absolutely zero upside to using anything remotely like our system!
Lobbyists in Canada (and northren European countries as well) will always try to dismember any social privelages their citizens have. The payoff is huge and the risks for trying to do so are negligible. Also, they can just blame the immigrants (which is hilarious in the US and Canada since all of us are immigrants or descendents of immigrants).
What are their complaints about the Canadian system out of curiosity? Just the taxes?
Complaining about the taxes would be the dumbest since the US spends a lot more tax money for a lot less per capita.
This is more than mildlyinteresting.
This is what I want to see.
Beat them back at their own game.
It is like when police say they wish that policing was like in The Andy Griffith Show. Tell them that everyone knew where sheriff Andy Taylor lived. Why don’t you tell everyone where you live, sheriff ?
cause of death: not knowing the cheat code to getting treated like a human being that exists for some reason
I don’t think persuasion Checks are a good way to determine who lives and who dies in real life 🥲
Go ahead and roll for persuasion on your motion to abolish persuasion checks in healthcare.
Good luck getting them to give you an answer at all to any of those questions. You’re going to need to get a lawyer and spend a lot of money and time getting any response at all from anyone who actually works for the company, since the customer service doesn’t have access to any of that information and they wouldn’t be allowed to reveal it even of they did. It’s an insurance system, not a social service system where you have some kind of rights.
Insurance companies are designed to find any reason possible not to pay a claim, whether it’s homeowner’s insurance, liability insurance, or any other type of insurance. And they have plenty of lawyers on staff so they’re happy to make the lawsuit take long enough to cost you more than the claim is worth to you and it barely costs them anything.
The reason why this would work is because it makes it appear as though you may get lawyers involved. Yeah, they don’t want to pay out claims, but they also don’t want to get sued and lose. This is an intimidation check to make them either back down and pay out or risk potentially going to court with someone who appears to know what’s up. They’d rather just pay the bill at that point, at least as long as this doesn’t become common.
That might be the case if you got to talk to someone with the ability to do anything about it. Customer service is just able to tell you what happened, not really make any change. You can file an appeal, but you can’t really ask for much during that process. It’s mostly automated and the people who process those have very specific criteria for overriding an initial decision and have a very short period of time they’re allowed to spend on each appeal.
So the only way you’d get to someone who might be able to access any of this information is through a lawsuit. Trying to intimidate a worker with no power, no access to information, and a very high quotas is unlikely to have much effect. And these companies all have more lawyers on staff and/or retainer than any of us could afford in a hundred lifetimes. And those people aren’t going to give that information anyway. Nor would they give it to any lawyer you might hire in most cases. Proprietary information has way more legal protections than consumer rights, even in healthcare. You’d need to get a judge to order that release of confidential information about an employee or proprietary algorithm in most states, unless you convince someone to sacrifice their job, their freedom, and possibly their life to become a whistleblower.
So unless your claim is in the hundreds of thousands at least, it’s unlikely you’ll spend less on lawyers just to get your case in front of someone who can answer these questions much less compelled them to give it. Otherwise, they’d have an incentive to pay claims in good faith in the first place. So there’s no intimidation felt on their end by things like this. It just makes them get I to a defensive posture if anything, and likely reduces your likelihood of getting an appeal approved in a timely manner.
Your best bet if your claim is denied and appeal fails and you actually have a case is to hope you live in a somewhat progressive state that funds their insurance commission and has more consumer-friendly laws, and go to them for help. Federal laws aren’t going to help much unless you have evidence of fraud or you understand all the details of the case and can point to specific contract language or laws they violated already. But in that case the appeal should be all that’s needed.
And your doctor will have to fight with the insurance company over the phone for an hour to do a pre-auth. When my doctor wants to perform something or give a certain treatment not covered, he assures me he will make this long and stressful call. I really wonder what they are discussing and what goes on in these conversations…
I’ve had doctors lead me to make certain statements so they can more readily justify a given treatment that they know I need.
It’s a bit of a wink-and-a-nod situation.
It’s even worse if you’re part of an HMO, because the doctors are beholden to the business side, unlike independent doctors who don’t have a management overhead telling them how many times a year they can prescribe a treatment, becuase they’re doing it more frequently than other doctors in the system.
This demonstrates the major issue with socialized care, because it’s also managed this way. I’ve been in both HMO and PPO systems - overall they both cost about the same despite HMOs acting like they cover more day-to-day stuff. It’s just with PPO (independent doctors), I get care that’s more tailored to me and my wishes, I don’t get pushback from corporate, because there’s no corporate involved. I may have to discuss with my doctor how to present things so my insurance won’t push back, but at least the insurance company doesn’t directly control my doctor’s salary, bonus, etc.
All this crap started in the 80’s as business management orgs started taking over healthcare organizations and consolidating them, and turning them into profit centers.
When I was a clinic assistant in a cancer-focused plastic surgery clinic, it was my job to fight with the insurance companies. I did prior authorizations for every surgery and they would do shit like approve the removal of a melanoma without requiring prior authorization, but performing the skin graft to repair the 10cm diameter hole required a prior authorization because the procedure code falls under the “Plastic Surgery” heading and they wanted to make sure you’re not getting skin grafts for cosmetic reasons.
Agree I feel fortunate to have found a doctor(and their PA, and their staff) who feels like my own personal swat team to get my treatments. I am not wealthy and don’t have gold plated coverage, I just found a winner.
It’s so much paperwork and phone tag.
I was the feisty little gremlin that fought with the insurance at a cancer-focused plastic surgery clinic. I got really good at stacking up all of the info in the first submission so that they couldn’t drag their heels on shit that was time-sensitive.
Preesh.
As an EMT I rode with too many people who were sobbing in the bus because they knew the financial hit that was coming when we got to the ER.
I’m in medical school now and looking at either emergency med or family med, and either way, I am going to be exceedingly careful about how I construct my notes, diagnoses, evaluations, and treatment plans to leave as few cracks as possible for the insurance companies to try to weasel their way into.
I would encourage you to CAREFULLY and WITH DETAIL listen to your senior tutors (senior grisled paramedics, charge nurses, etc). They have a very particular line to walk and you can blow the show if you don’t learn the language.
It’s performative…everyone in the equation wants the patient to get the best, but if you haul off and make it obvious, they may be screwed.
Not saying you’d do that, but it’s a new world of…bullshit nuance.
Edit and if they ever give you a knowing look, and ask you to check the blinker fluid, or if the vending machine is stocked with saline, nod, and go “check”. They want to talk to the patient with no witnesses, so they can coach them on how to fit a proper insurance code.
I am quite familiar with this nonsense from the patient side as well. As a physician, I think I will be well-placed to ensure that my patients are getting appropriate care while not giving the insurance company bullshit reasons to deny claims.
Good on you. I mean no assumption, only shared advice from some years in the trenches.
What doctor has time to do that? I’m in Canada and I can never trust my doctor to have any conversation with anyone, at any time longer than five minutes at a time for anything.
The best tactic I’ve found if you want to get anything done for yourself or someone close to you is for you to do the legwork and make calls, contacts and literally hound people to do their job. If no one is there to push things along, no one is going to magically appear to help you … that is a fantasy that seldom and rarely happens, even in our publicly funded system.
You or someone who is capable should advocate for you every step of the way, otherwise you will just get lost and forgotten in the system … whether you are in the US or Canada.
I’m in Canada and I can never trust my doctor to have any conversation with anyone, at any time longer than five minutes at a time for anything
The best tactic I’ve found if you want to get anything done for yourself or someone close to you is for you to do the legwork and make calls, contacts and literally hound people to do their job.
This is my experience in the US as well. Also nobody knows anything about anything.
Doctor A puts you on a medication, doctor B doesn’t know until you tell them and says “he put you on that!? You shouldn’t be on that, I’m taking you off it.”
You go to have a surgery and say “hey guys, did you know that I’m difficult to intubate? Because I could die if you don’t take that into account”, they didn’t know.
“Hey guys, I have reason to believe that the insurance card I was issued in the mail isn’t completely correct, can anyone help me with this?”, 4 different people at the company that issued the card have no idea what’s going on, don’t even know about the policy tied to the card in question and think you must have accidentally called the wrong company (you didn’t).
“Hey guys how much is this going to cost?” it is literally impossible to say.
What you are saying is generally true. The only real oversight in ensuring things are moving forward is us ourselves as patients. It’s our responsibility as patients to take charge of our health.
That being said, P2P is sadly a standard aspect of American medical practice. Essentially anyone in a direct patient contact position position has done them. In the clinic or hospital, it may be your primary clinician handling it but it doesn’t necessarily have to be. It can be handled by other clinical staff or a group of nonclinical doctors also.
You dont have to worry about P2P since it will get taken care of (whether the service will be covered by insurance is another story). Instead I’d focus on keeping disconnected parts of the system abreast of your medical conditions and current list of medications. Because health information is protected there really isn’t a great solution for centralizing this data yet so if you go to a clinic that’s on a different EMR, they’re not going to have all of the necessary information available to them.
Do you think your health record got that black mark before you took control of your health journey, or after?
(Mine is “surgery seeking”, apparently, as my old region has the mitigation history and the new region doesn’t; and one surgery every 15 years seems to be too many for them!)
I have a doctor that actually cares. If I had one that didn’t, I would not stop until I found one that did. It’s mostly getting the insurance to cover medications that they don’t. The doctor usually spends the last hour of his day doing this, for me and other patients. You have to find a local doctor outside of a major city with less client base so they DO have the time. I am in the US. My deductible is very high but the medication I take is life sustaining and I can never pay for it. I have to do this every 6mo to a year: make an appointment and hope the doctor gets their way. Once they didn’t and that is why I am at my current doctor. There is not much negotiating a patient can do calling the insurance themselves. They will just look and see you don’t know what you are talking about. No matter how you complain about the symptoms, your financial burden, your family, or the fact of it being life-sustaining. Best to have a medical professional advocate. I have even tried with doctor letters and emails forwarded before calling. That is why I wonder what the doctor actually says that gets through.
Semi related, recently I was referred to what I thought was a “specialist” from my doctor for a thing but I couldn’t myself determine if they were in-network with my insurance. Turns out what was implied to be a specialist was actually just a company that determines where to send people for this specific service, so we’re at the point that a primary care provider is working with a 4th party to deal with the 1st party and the 5th party is running services at the 2nd party and I am 1) the person responsible to figure out this insanity and 2) will likely be billed an obscene amount of money for something that should’ve been a 1:1 convo with a doctor and a hospital because one or five of the likely 30 people across 8 companies missed an email. (And you know all those people are they themselves dealing with the same nightmare and probably being paid a paltry $15/hr.
The free market is so much more efficient than the government!
Yeah, that sounds about right. After a heart attack scare, a night in the hospital and all the cardiac testing that went with it, I received a letter in the mail from some company I’ve never heard of that determined my tests were necessary and would be covered. Weeks later. Like, motherfucker, what was the other option? We all thought I was dieing… ER had me admitted in less than 2 hours. It was bad … And someone needed to contact a fifth fucking party to make sure I deserve to live?
Fuck me. I wish I could leave this place and get my family someplace sane, where they are safe.
I jump straight to filing a complaint with the Department of Insurance. The insurance company immediately gives me the authorization every time.
Can they respond to the DOI that I haven’t followed proper escalation procedures? Sure. But they just fold because they know they’re in the wrong and I am clearly willing to escalate matters.
- carve the word “deny”
- carve the word “delay”
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