He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them. But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion… Nor is it enough that he should hear the opinions of adversaries from his own teachers, presented as they state them, and accompanied by what they offer as refutations. He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them…he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
- John Stuart Mill
Breaking Points. I disagree with the conservatives on there, but respect them. They are smart and rational, and often make good points.
Ooooooh, thank you! That sounds exactly like what I was hoping for!
Glad I helped, hope you find it engaging!
I have a group of friends that are essentially the opposite of what I think, keeping them as friends is a challenge. Without reaching the point of being actual Nazis, they are as far right as they get, and also ancaps. They expose me to the internals of how they think, is very interesting.
Reason magazine and ReasonTV. I can’t defend or totally justify it but I wonder whether they are more propaganda than journalism or news but they have very plausible positions on many things I actually am synpathetic to. I dunno
Oh interesting, I’ve never really taken libertarian positions seriously but that might be worth a look.
Where I live the commercial TV evening news shows are completely Murdoc level conservative trash. I still watch them I guess.
What if what I consider to be the most plausible and persuasive expression of an idea is not the one that most believers in that idea would express or even be aware of? For example, if I read the work of an economist who presents strong evidence that Trump’s tariffs would benefit the American economy, have I actually engaged with the beliefs of most Trump supporters or Trump himself?
Interesting question and thoughtful distinction!
My initial thought is that while you might not be engaging with why trump supporters are for it, I think it still counts because the people making the policy are probably doing it for reasons that are disconnected to the beliefs of the rank and file.
I put it akin to religion and whatnot. If the only argument for or against something is religion, I don’t give it much credence other than the basic “I generally think it’s good to be respectful of religion until it interferes with others.” But even if their reason is religion, if there’s actually a good reason, that good reason may be worth engaging with.
Not sure if I’m making sense, it’s been a looooooooooong day after a longer week.
I don’t generally follow news I disagree with because it stresses me out pointing out how everything they think is wrong… BUT… I do poke my nose in on “beforeitsnews.com” every now and then to see what the batshit crazy fringe is up to.
because it stresses me out pointing out how everything they think is wrong…
Honestly, that sounds fairly healthy. I have a weird obsession with being well informed and being able to articulate arguments from all sides (which has occasionally made me very unpopular both in real life and online) and while it’s a fine intellectual exercise, it’s probably not the most conducive to feeling great.
I am american who opposes the military industrial complex so I tend to be perpetually exposed to news I don’t agree with or support the framing.
I have to work to find news sources I agree with consistently. I often wind up just playing Bingo with CSpan and State Dept press breifings.
My day one bottom bitch, as Butters would call it, for news source I don’t always agree with but love: Jon Stewart. I lean right, especially back when The Daily Show was airing with Jon Stewart. Never mattered tho, always loved his perspective and wish I could list the amount of shit he’s brought to my attention or changed my stance on.
I read the Financial Times despite being on the left but I find that useful because they don’t cover DC drama unless it legitimately matters. I’m not at all interested in broadening my horizons by reading American conservative bullshit. I already know what they’re going to say. I prefer to read new perspectives. To give an example, I’d rather read a novel by an African woman than learn what propaganda Fox News is pushing. I just don’t care anymore.
“Merely having an open mind is nothing. The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid.”
— G.K. Chesterton
Oh no, I wouldn’t recommend Fox or Newsmax or the ilk on anyone.
But I do like to understand what the best version of things I disagree with are. Wider perspectives are important but if I agree with all of them? I dunno, it feels intellectually lazy to me. That’s why I’m asking! I’d like to find something akin to what the National Review used to be.
Otherwise, to me at least, there’s a very real danger of becoming the kind of person who writes off everyone who disagrees with me as ignorant, bigoted or evil. Which, in my opinion, isn’t a great way to live. Though, admittedly, I’ve always found those “everything is black or white” folks to be insufferably boring so maybe I’m just trying to not be that person instead of any high minded ideal.
Sorry I’m tired and rambling while pooping.
Not all opinions are inherently valid or valuable though. That’s the Paradox of Tolerance. You do eventually have to draw a line, because some people will use the benefit of the doubt to dismantle democracy
Though, admittedly, I’ve always found those “everything is black or white” folks to be insufferably boring so maybe I’m just trying to not be that person instead of any high minded ideal.
I appreciate this level of introspection. I think you’re right to keep an open mind and to seek a broader view of the issues, but don’t be afraid for the conclusion you draw to be that someone or some opinion is ignorant, bigoted, or hateful. You should be open to any possibility… but as anticlimactic as it is, sometimes something really is black or white; that’s a possibility just like any other. Understanding why someone hateful thinks the way they do is useful, but it doesn’t change the fact that they are.
TL;DR: If you never consider other viewpoints, you’ll never find the right one, but if you never stop considering them, you’ll never find the right one either. I wish you luck in your pursuit of knowledge.
I don’t really follow right-wing news sources, as much as I follow right-wing commentators. I already know what the news on the right says, but what I’m interested in is how the people on the right actually interpret that news; which points they choose to regurgitate, and which points the average person on the right will latch onto. FOX News can say 30 different things about one particular news story, but generally the audience will only focus on one or two.
I follow a lot of podcasts that are either center-left sources or Democratic party cheerleaders: NPR and the NPR Politics Podcast, Ezra Klein (God he’s an insufferable twat), the Daily, Pod Save America…some of these I listen to because I want to know what the, “mainstream American left,” believes, some of them just have good information; NPR’s Up First is a great 15 minute morning news wrap, and the Daily does good in depth reporting (even better when Michael Barbaro is on vacation).
I don’t listen to right-wing pundits like Ben Shapiro or Matt Walsh very often. They’re mostly culture war crap, and there’s usually very little information to be gained from them. I do regularly read conservative reporting though, mostly WSJ and the Economist.
I can’t help but agree with you, most conservative media is so smug and smarmy, it’s insufferable. “Don’t Walk, Run!” is an example, same with Piers Morgan. Like, can’t these guys say their piece without acting like fucking Ben Shapiro? It’s rare you find a regular, lucid guy just talking about political news or having discussions with the other side.
I’m fascinated by Anna Kasparian’s political evolution over the past year, and I’m almost tempted to see what TYT are up to these days.
Yeah, I fell off of TYT in 2017 or 2018 for a lot of the same reasons I can’t stand listening to right-wing pundits; a lot of smug and little information (mostly from Cenk). I hadn’t heard anything about Ana Kasperian. What happened with her?
There are some leftist podcasts that I like, but they are kinda just angry and unproductive, like The Insurgents; I only listen to them when I’m deeply angry or they have a good guest. The Lever is probably the best new left-wing podcast I’m listening to right now, and the Majority Report is always great.
Ana seems to have become a lot less radical/“everyone I disagree with is a Nazi” than she used to be. Not to say she still isn’t far-left, but that she’s now more willing to talk to and be friends with, say, Trump voters. She has been going on more moderate and right-leaning podcasts etc and having healthy debates and not just screeching like she was famous for doing in 2016.
That’s why like Emma Vigeland. She’s calm, cool, and pretty open minded, and when things do get confrontational, it’s Tim Pool that’s screeching, not her.
She went on some rants about taking offense to the term ‘birthing person’ and got expressly angry that Cenk’s nephew got rich off Twitch so she kinda put out there she’s willing to grift for money. Which sucks.
I follow russian official media and look for trend in z-bloggers spaces via a compilatory channel at https://t.me/s/ve4niyvoy In one way or another they prove whatever breakthrough is announced in western media, like killing of generals or using new munition or attacking X place. But I don’t dive into these too much because my mental health can take only a brief amount of that. Russian media are too fucking dense, intense, and it’s no wonder people who casually watch them without a stellar opinion on stuff got zombified and soothed into z-thoughts.
What is this z- prefix you’re using?
Z is painted on much of the Russian war kit. It’s their equivalent of a swastika.
Yep, it’s officially promoted as a symbol of being involved in that war that then generalized as a sign of being patriotic. I mostly described military bloggers, but regular idiots too started to change their and their communities names to include english Z and also S V O into their nicknames on the web. The right hand rule is if you see an avatar with Z or a person who has uppercase english letters you just block them for they are long lost.
The only news site I follow is my country’s equivalent of the BBC, which leans left. Lemmy also skews heavily to the left, but the podcasts I listen to tend to be more centrist or center-right from my perspective - though some might argue that someone like Joe Rogan is far-right, which I disagree with.
I don’t align myself with any particular side. I form my opinions on an issue-by-issue basis rather than adopting the beliefs of “my side” - whatever that may be - as a package deal. I’ve been on the right, and I’ve been on the left, but I’ve since settled somewhere in the middle. I feel like I have a fairly accurate understanding of both perspectives and can often argue for most hot topics from either side’s point of view.
I don’t align myself with any particular side. I form my opinions on an issue-by-issue basis rather than adopting the beliefs of “my side” - whatever that may be - as a package deal.
I’d like to think that most people do this, but unfortunately I know better. I would like to say, however, that it’s possible to make your own independent decisions about each issue, have them align with one party more than the other, and then identify with the party that your views align with. As long as your views define your party, rather than your party defining your views, there is nothing wrong with identifying with the party that you’re closest to.
I don’t follow any news sources, and I’m still over-informed.
Distrowatch
