For me it is the concept of registering to vote. I am citizen so I have the right to vote automatically and only thing I need to provide is some accepted ID.
No voter ID is super weird to me as a Canadian.
We can vote without ID in Canada, we need to swear that we are who we are.
Having only 2 realistic choices
That’s very common though.
Only in FPTP systems
Not at all.
No, in systems where there is a dictator, corruption and no realistic opportunity for other parties to get a foothold.
No, not really. Only some parts of the english-speaking world use FPTP and it’s not that common to have only 2 choices unless you have that system.
FPTP is not the only form of being limited to two (or fewer) choices. Look at Georgia, Cambodia and Thailand as a few examples. Vietnam, Russia and China for other limited-choice countries. Not sure what the “english-speaking” part is relevant for.
Well the map includes Canada, US, UK and India, and some african territories that I imagine may have been UK colonies at one point (I could be wrong), hence english-speaking world.
I think those are particular examples but if you look at most of the EU, I think there are more political choices than just 2. Here in Denmark there’s sometimes a discussion that there are too many political parties. We currently have like 12?
Europe and the EU are a very small part of the world as a whole, 60% of the world lives in Asia, with the biggest countries in the world having two or zero choices.
There can be plenty of political parties (a la the UK), it doesn’t mean there is the possibility of electing them all.
That they’re held on a work-day, to disenfranchise those that can’t take the day off.
I mean yes, but the real disenfranchisement comes from making sure the lines are hours long for the only polling station in your county (while every suburban school is a polling station in rich neighborhoods).
We had laws against that (not that they were followed), but the Supreme Court struck them down because “they weren’t needed anymore”.
Isn’t that quite normal even in other countries? I believe we do it quite commonly in Denmark.
Yes. In the UK, our elections are always on Thursdays. No one has ever complained about it because it’s literally not an issue.
The idea that it’s an attempt at disenfranchising people because you have to vote either before or after work is laughable.
The difference I suspect is in the ease of which we have access to local polling stations within walking distance of our homes, and how short the queues are, if there are queues at all.
In the US these problems can be magnified, especially if everybody is trying to pile in to the stations (or just reach them) within the one hour they have before their 12 hour shift, etc.
For me it is the concept of registering to vote. I am citizen so I have the right to vote automatically and only thing I need to provide is some accepted ID.
This but also that in some US states you don’t need a valid ID to vote
Your signature is your ID.
When you register to vote, your signature is placed on file.
When you go to vote, you sign in and your signature is compared to the registration.
If it matches, you can vote. If it doesn’t match, you can prove who you are or cast a provisional ballot pending identification.
The system seems to work - voting fraud doesn’t seem to be a huge issue in the US.
It’s just that it’s so counterintuitive to me, making sure that everyone voted only once and only in their own name is essential. But somehow you managed to do it without requiring a formal ID document.
I’d think the signature would be way harder to fake than an ID. Nobody signs my name like I do, but I bet there are plenty of bad ID photos that kinda/sorta look like me.
Being registered “as a republican/democrat” is weird.
Electoral college is weird AF
One party trying to stop people voting is weird.
Queuing for hours to vote is weird.
Purging voter rolls is weird.
Rallies are weird.
Townhalls are weird.
Flags everywhere is weird.
The orange one is super weird.
Electoral college is weird AF
https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Madison/01-10-02-0065
It was just added because it was the only way to launder slave votes for slave states, if you did it 1 vote per person then who got to choose who the slaves voted for?
We need to fix it, but there’s no way in hell they’ll give up their most precious possession, no matter how wrong it is.
That might have been revolutionary in 1776, and cut it in 1950, but its the 21st C — as long as the electoral college exists the US should not be viewed as more than a pseudo-democracy at best.
Electoral college is weird AF
I think it’s less unique than people think. In France, there is an electoral college specifically for the Sénat, which is a secondary legislative chamber compared to the Assemblée Nationale. They can amend law proposals after they are submitted by the Assemblée, but in case of conflicts, it’s the Assemblée that decides.
The college is made of people locally elected in various types of previous local elections. I think part of the reasons for this system is to have a representation of every locations that is not only proportional to the population. For example to prevent populated areas from dictating laws to unpopulated areas that don’t make sense for their local circumstances (typically around urbanism and transportation).
It may make sense for specific services which are naturally bias and unfair (can’t think of any that would warrant it), but for general governance weighting citizens votes differently for any reason is entirely anti-democratic.
Also the UK’s House of Lords is no better. Giving a bunch of historically elite landowners authority based on wealth and birthright is fucking disgusting.
Good summary
FYI registering with a party affiliation is so you can vote in their closed primary election (where they pick candidates to run in the general election)
Anyone can register with any party, or none, and change their affiliation at will.
Townhalls are weird.
Town halls? As in the building or does this mean something else? Aren’t town halls quite common and normal elsewhere?
Flags everywhere is weird.
We kinda do this in Denmark too tbh. I personally don’t find it that weird due to that.
Townhalls are a type of political event. They are typically small forum events held in places like town halls or school gyms and involve the politician giving a short speech typically limited to a single issue or current event followed by a longer period where the audience asks the politician questions. It’s not limited to campaigning, legislators often hold these events outside of elections. Theoretically they give the politician the opportunity to hear issues and concerns that their constituents most care about but mostly they are used to drum up support for legislation that the politician already supports.
Hmm okay. I do think we have something similar here where there might be meetings that we call “citizen meetings” where anyone is invited to come and hear about a current political topic. It’s mostly informative and people can ask questions and stuff, not related to campaigning or elections mostly I would say. So yea I don’t think that is too weird honestly.
I think they’re talking about town hall meetings.
I’m not sure about the format but I know that towns in Denmark also occasionally calls for meetings. This doesn’t sound that weird to me
The rallies, with celebrities and stuff. Bizarre.
Everything in America is a circus.
Non US citizens, what’s the weirdest thing about USA elections, compared to elections in your country?
I will probably get downvoted to oblivion for that but here it is: that one of your candidate was not put in jail already and is still legally able to run for presidency (note that I did not name said candidate, I would not want to influence US voters ;)
When I see how some of our politicians can run away from justice, it isn’t that weird.
But our justice system is truly independent from the political one.
True your two remarks.
And we also have a few very questionable representatives/candidate to whatever elections around here, but so far none that has managed to get away from a failed coup at the previous election — sorry, it was unintentional but I may have hinted at the candidate I was surprised was still able to run tor presidency ;)
There are some regrettable exceptions
Why would you get down voted for that on a leftist forum?
There’s a downvote bot, sometimes people click the wrong button by accident, and this community is not leftist
I like your optimism that by naming said candidate you would influence anyone!
Maybe I was a little bit sarcastic?
Woah, tone down that rhetoric, Yosif!
/s
The way people get so emotionally invested into it.
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FPTP voting system
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Voting isn’t compulsory so a lot depends upon on riling up your base
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Voting is on a Tuesday instead of a weekend (or a public holiday)
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Political parties draw up the electoral boundaries instead of an independent body
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The absurdly long leadup to an election
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The amount of money thrown around
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The fact that there is a chance that the fascist will lose. Unimaginable in Russia.
Electoral college is fucking weird
That you disallow prisoners to vote, but a felon can run as a candidate
That you end up in situation where there are hours long lines and you don’t have one station per, say, 1000 people at most
Registering to vote is weird, but that is i understand mostly a consequence of not having countrywide ID standard. In my country you’re automatically registered where you live, and IDs are free of charge and mandatory to have (not driving license or passport. there are fees for these)
Election isn’t on weekend, there’s zero reason why it couldn’t be or it could be made national holiday. There was even free public transit for election day in my city, but that one was paid by the city
That some of people (republicans) seem to be into politics in the same way ultras seem to be into football, it’s still fucked up but i’ve seen it in other places so it’s not that weird by now
Well to be honest we don’t have a justice system - we have a punishment system pretending to be a justice system.
but a felon can run as a candidate
No no this one is one of the good ideas in the American system. In dictatorships this sort of restriction can be and is used as a way to prevent political rivers from running for office.
The rivers must run, lest they be dammed.
Yeah, and for the same reason prisoners should be allowed to vote too
I am not American, but I believe the reason a felon can run is that the founding fathers didn’t want peoples political rivals to be able to bring charges to stop someone being president.
And how does that handle a candidate who is in prison, and how is it different?
Eugene Debs, the must successful American socialist candidate for president, was at one point running for office while in prison. Of course he lost so I can’t imagine it helped
I imagine if such a candidate won, they would forfeit their win by not attending the inauguration and not getting sworn in.
Well I don’t really expect someone in prison to win, but I don’t believe there’s any law about the location where the president gets sworn in. If a majority of voters chose that person, they could get sworn in in jail, immediately pardon themselves and off they go.
Nothing states WHERE the President has to be sworn in. LBJ was sworn in on Air Force One. I believe Andrew Johnson was sworn in at the house where Lincoln lay dying.
That you end up in situation where there are hours long lines and you don’t have one station per, say, 1000 people at most
If you make it hard for the people you don’t like to vote, then they won’t vote. You never hear about rich white districts running low on election machines do you. Since the machines are provided by the state I wonder why that would be. 🤔
The entire process of the electoral college makes no sense at all. The only thing it accomplishes is making some peoples votes better than others. Which is so fucked up if you think about it.
That one party (the Republicans, just to be clear about that) tries to invalidate votes and tries to make voting as hard as possible AND THEN gets away with it.
That for the last 8 years one party keeps nominating a criminal who keeps admitting that he wants to fuck the country into the dirt. And people still vote for him. Every country has its idiots, but they usually are in the 5%-10% range. In the US it’s almost 50% of the voters. That is remarkable.
Oh, and the two party system sucks, too. They are not the same, fuck everyone who says they are. But it still does suck.
for republicans, if you don’t toe the line, you’re out. no longer part of the club. only 100% unwavering loyalty and fealty to dear great leader will allow you a seat at the table. it’s a cult.
I wouldn’t know where to start. Maybe the electoral college and that nobody updated this in centuries. Makes it borderline undemocratic IMO. Especially the winner-takes-it-all formula that makes you have exactly 2 parties, with none of them really incentivised to do what the citizens want. At least on a national level. And the people can choose to either vote for one of them, whether they like them or not, or throw away their vote.
And the next thing are maybe the people themselves. I can’t imagine how half a population would like a convicted criminal, who’d like to make everything more expensive for them and doesn’t like democracy (which is kinda something the USA is proud of, historically) and would like to get rid of it. Which is completely detrimental to how and why the entire country was founded. And I mean you kind of have to be a racist yourself to like other fascists/racists?
I can imagine like 20-30% of racists around, or people who’ve been fooled by some charismatic character. But not half.
You have too much faith in humanity. A smart-sounding Greek guy or another said that democracy is only possible with a homogenous population, otherwise the country will tear itself apart I don’t agree with that conclusion, but the process they described is true, in both Europe and America. The way I see it, America has been ethnically diverse for a lot longer so they’re closer to or at the peak of the allergy-like reaction you witness in an ethnically diverse democracy. Meanwhile Europe only started feeling it recently because of Middle Eastern immigration, and it’s looking like that. Europe will in all likelihood go down a worse version of the same trajectory we’ve seen unfold in America.
I don’t think this has anything to do with diversity and ethnicity. I’ve watched people from very different cultures who also look different to me. Studied together with them or shared a flat. I live in a region that’s been a melting pot for quite some time now. And while we certainly cook different dishes and occasionally go grocery shopping at different places… Or go to a different hair salon… It seems to me we value exactly the same things in life. Struggle with the same things at work or in our every day lives. And generally have very similar goals. I think there is basically no difference. It’s mainly made up and made to believe. Certainly not the true reason for anything but some pretend argument for something else.
I live in a region that’s been a melting pot for quite some time now
If you’re in Europe, I’d wager that your country has a thriving right wing movement that has seen increased support over the last 10 years, and that they gained that support at least partially by promising to stop immigration or deport immigrants. Otherwise, well, there’s too little information here for me to say anything.
That’s not rooted in objective reality or facts.
It’s objective truth that a significant fraction of any population is deeply xenophobic and doesn’t view these things as you do. I’m making a claim about the human psyche, not ethnic differences, so you’re not really refuting my point.
If you’re in Europe […]
Germany, Ruhrgebiet. So a region that has been shaped by coal and steel industry. Though it’s one of the examples where the change from heavy industry to modern economy worked out relatively well. But that means we’ve had lots of immigrants come here to work since the nineteenth century. I always like to think hating on immigrants is like taking a crap in your own backyard. Because that’s my heritage and part of what constitutes this region.
Of course it’s way more complicated than that. Sometimes we forget where we come from. And it comes with different implications when it’s been Polish immigrants who are catholic as well, or Turkish people who grew up with a different prophet. (And they do weird things like go to sunday school on friday, or take off their outdoor shoes before prayer.) And after that (in recent times) it’s been other countries like Syria where people came from due to war etc.
I suppose there is a parallel to the USA. US history is a lot about migrants, let alone a few Native American people. But that was a long time ago.
your country has a thriving right wing movement
Yes. That’s something we all struggle with. And it worry about that. I think there is a multitude of factors. Society should put in some effort to fix this. We have stupid people, people who aren’t stupid but easy to manipulate, we have people in precarious situations and it’s not healthy to leave them behind. Especially without any perspective but with access to Telegram to radicalize themselves and each other. I’m not surprised this turns into hatred against random things. Immigrants, the establishment, … I suppose that’s a big reason why we have some 20-30% of people voting for some complete nutjobs. But: It’s a minority here. And that’s (still) a big difference to the situation in the USA. But we also have a lot of the same problems. And I suppose another thing is the world getting more complicated and people having to deal with it. They’re looking for answers. And if we don’t have any, someone else will make up some simple answers and hand those out to everyone.
I’m making a claim about the human psyche, not ethnic differences […]
You’re right. I’m reasoning about things and none of that is about thinking. It’s about emotions and feelings, wanting to be heard or a lack of (felt) perspective genuinely turning into hatred. It’s all about human psyche and manifesting in a very, very unhealthy dynamic. I wish us all the best. And I really hope there is a way to reconvene and steer towards a future that’s not dominated by hate and small-mindedness.
(Edit: And btw, my perspective doesn’t translate to other parts of Germany. It’s a whole different story there. And people might not even have any immigrants as neighbors if they live in other parts of the country.)
That campaigning starts over a year in advance… then you don’t even have a switchover for two months.
Gerrymandering. i dont know a second democracy where such a blatant version of voter suppression is allowed.
Singapore
61% of the votes, but 89% of the seats in parliament
