Is it time to make Election Day a federal holiday? 🗳️ Some say it would boost voter turnout and align the U.S. with other democracies, while others argue it could create challenges for hourly workers and cost millions. Dive into the debate over whether a federal voting holiday is the best way to strengthen democracy or if there are better solutions. Check out the full breakdown!
Even easier. Make the shit electronic. Stop pussy footin around and make it available on the Internet.
I know enough about the internet to know that this would end up being a bad idea. Not to say that there isn’t a way to correctly implement it (I honestly don’t know). But even if there is, should we trust them to do it correctly? Our (US) government full of octogenarians?
Why? Everything is on the Internet. You can buy houses and bank on the Internet. There are scams sure. But the physical votes are still tabulated and entered into the fuckin Internet!
Right. And you trust the American government to be transparent with this process? You trust every individual involved in programming this system not to fuck it up in some way, intentionally or not?
There’s just way too much that can go wrong, and more possible attack vectors that could possibly be accounted for. We already have state actors actively attempting (often successfully) to interfere with our elections. What makes you think putting it online wouldn’t make that 1000x worse?
Not to mention you can’t even go back and see what the people really voted. If someone sneaks a
if (vote == KamalaHarris.vote) { DateTime currentTime = DateTime.Now; If (currentTime.Seconds % 3 = 0) DonaldTrump.voteCount += 3; else KamalaHarris.voteCount += 1; }into closed source code, you’ve got fuckery that will take a computer scientist to find, and no way to unfuck the election.
I prefer my paper ballot, thank you, though I’ll allow it to be scanned by a computer, as long as the computer is checked for fuckery like the above first.
The voting machines that those votes are originally entered into are not connected to the Internet, they’re on their own disconnected network, and for very good reason. Software is far from perfect, and putting voting software on the Internet would immediately make it a target from attackers all over the world, and they would absolutely be hacked and manipulated.
I worked in an election. The tabulations are very much uploaded into a main frame.
For record keeping purposes, sure, not as a means to conduct the actual election. In a lot of places, paper ballots are still manually counted. Most places have a Scantron-type device that scans your filled-in ballot, but those machines are not Internet-connected. If they are networked, they’re on their own separate air-gapped network.
Not where I was working. 90 percent were electronically entered. And I didn’t even work in the most affluent county in my state. Electronic voting is very prevalent.
The electronic machines used to cast* votes are not connected to the Internet.
As a programmer I really really don’t think this is an idea we’re capable of implementing in a way that’s safe/secure/etc.
See also: https://xkcd.com/2030/
You aren’t the only programmer in the world
Yes, but I believe e-voting being a bad idea is the common opinion among not just programmers but cybersecurity professionals specifically as well.
I mean, you’re wrong lol
So laughably wrong. It’s a great idea because it puts the power in the people. It is the only equalizer left. The possibility of the outcome greatly outweighs the challenges to make it work.
There are plenty of cyber sensitive occupations that rely on the Internet and work. The fact that this one thing is “not possible” is like giving up without any effort whatsoever.
I’m not wrong lmao. I didn’t say it was impossible, I said the government is not capable of implementing it in a way that would be secure. Put up or shut up, don’t just claim that I’m wrong because you said so lol
The importance of the service is also exactly why it would be one of the most attacked online systems in the entire world. Even relatively secure systems are hit with zero-day attacks that can entirely compromise them. The US government especially is technologically outdated and I wouldn’t trust them to so much as install security updates.
I mean I know you think aren’t. But you are. It’s cool. You know programming to an extent. But there is PLENTY of evidence to show that you are. There are many other applications in use today that show it’s feasible. It’s like arguing the sky isn’t blue because you have your sunglasses on. Sure. It’s in your wheelhouse. Doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be done. It should be. It would equalize everything.
You know programming to an extent
That’s just rude lol, you know nothing about my experience. My personal opinion isn’t even super relevant here though; if we look at the professional consensus, they tend to agree.
I haven’t seen any evidence that you have any understanding of this topic at all. You keep saying we should do it because it would be good-- which it would be-- but wanting something to be easy doesn’t actually make it easy. You say there’s plenty of evidence; SHOW IT then if you’re so confident! I’ll even start, here’s an article by the AAAS with sources: https://www.aaas.org/epi-center/internet-online-voting
The problem isn’t that it can’t be done, the problem is that it can’t be done without disruption.
If eVoting were a thing, how long do you think it would take for 4chan to completely fuck it up?
And I don’t mean in a “In a stunning upset today, the new President is write in candidate Boaty McBoatface”, I mean in a DDoS attack blocking ANYONE from voting.
Heck, even systems that expect mass traffic without interruption go down all the time like when a new game gets released, you think voting traffic is somehow immune to that?
Voting is too important to leave to an electronic system.
It’s already done electronically. The information is just shifted to a different medium. Saying that it can’t be done when it’s already being done isn’t factual.
The tabulation is done electronically, on machines with no internet connection.
Voting electronically involves opening a machine to the public internet and that way lies madness.
One more absolutely not.
Let’s follow two votes. Vote #1 was cast in Colorado.
- It starts as a paper ballot sent by standard (“snail”) mail from our election division to me, the voter. I am notified it’s coming.
- I mark this ballot like I would an exam, just with a blue or black pen and not a #2 pencil. I’m going to do this in front of my computer, with ballotopedia open and key issues already marked.
- I drop this ballot off at the Election Division drop box. I am notified they received it.
- If there are problems, I am notified that I need to come in and ‘cure’ them.
- Once it’s accepted, I am notified, and then it’s scanned in to a tabulator. Once it’s scanned, it’s stored in a secure box.
- On Election Day, it’s counted, and the results are posted.
- If the election is close, or there is real evidence of criminality, the ballot is retrieved from its secure box and electronically or hand-counted again.
Vote 2 was cast in Louisiana.
- The voter must go to a designated voting centre on a voting day.
- The ballot is voted on an electronic machine that does not generate a paper trail.
- The vote counts are stored within the voting machine.
- If the election is stolen, there is no way to go back and check. The machines say what the machines say, and it’s trivial to engage voting shenanigans without any paper trail to track it down.
I’m going to fight hard for my system, buddy. You can keep your internet voting.
Yes. There are no drawbacks.
In Germany we always have elections on Sundays so it’s basically a public holiday (unlike in the US where stores are still open). There are enough places to vote (though you’re assigned to the one in your district for statistical reasons) so you rarely have to stand in line. I’ve seen pictures of voting lines in the US and was shocked…
Mail-in votes are available to everyone and it’s being used a lot but for many people going to the voting place in person has more meaning to it. Some even put on a suit, but that could also be because they are on the way to church.
Electronic voting was discussed but the consensus is that it’s not safe enough.
The question if it should be a public holiday in the US is weird to me as it is a very clear YES and also YES people should definitely always get a day off on public holidays wtf
I’ve seen pictures of voting lines in the US and was shocked…
Yeah, but those aren’t ubiquitous.
If you live in a suburb or rural area you can count on a dozen nearby polling stations and a 5 minute in and out.
If you live anywhere that supported the confederacy and might vote blue then you might have to deal with a 4-5 hour wait, coupled with provisional ballots that are not counted, voting roll purges, and other minor issues.
I guess what I’m saying is those crazy lines aren’t too much of an issue so long as you try to vote in a part of the country Hitler himself didn’t write of as an example of genetic enforcement to follow in Mein Kampf.
Thanks for the clarification!
Yes, and I also want a hotdog after voting (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_sausage).
Now that’s a fantastic idea. How about options? Democracy grilled cheese? Democracy pizza? All food trucks get a fixed tax break to serve a single free food item pp at polling places on voting days! Basically paid advertising.
edit: Democracy TACOS!!!
I’m gonna need to go lobby now… or at least do some market research…
IMHO, yes, but you have to bring proof of having voted the next work day for it to count. And the State should respond to mail-in ballots with “I Voted” stickers - mail in ballots have deadlines, so maybe It’d be enough time for a round trip. Or if you drop off the ballot at a post office, postal workers can hand you a sticker. More money for the USPS; it’s a win-win. Change the I voted sticker each year; counterfeiting would be more work than it’s worth.
There’d be forgeries, lax enforcement, whatever; the point isn’t to have a hard enforcement, like money, but just to encourage people to vote.
We’ll never be a country that mandates voting, like some do, but anything that encourages people to vote is a good thing.
P.S. if we can’t convert to a 4-day work week country, I think we should slowly create more federal holidays that fall on specific week days, until we have 52 of them.
Oh I love this but let’s make the incentives better.
- Every company gets a tax deduction for each employee that votes
- Each locality, county, state gets a tax bonus from the federal government for every election it has and for each person who votes
- each person who votes is eligible to receive a tax stimulus the following year
All of this can be done today. Voter participation information is actually available at the local level. It’s why I always get fliers for Republicans since I vote in their primaries. (My vote is more effective there than in the Democratic primary)
If this is your platform, I’ll vote for you. Throw in a little RCV, and I’ll canvas, too.
I want to get rid of FPTP voting but a recent veritasium video has me wondering if we should try something better than RCV.
Not saying I would vote no on RCV, but if we’re going to change the voting method, let’s do it in a way ensures that the people are best represented.
There are many better systems than RCV, but if has two things going for it:
- Already some momentum. It’s already implemented widely (if not commonly) in the US and other countries.
- It’s easy for people to understand, which is critical for trust, and possible to hand count if necessary.
With all due respect to Veritasium, perfect here is definitely the enemy of good. RCV is maybe the least good of many better-than-FPTP options, and has flaws; however, any argument for doing better than RCV based on “it has flaws” will always end up with arguing that we should use the Condorcet method, which would be impossible to approve and possibly impossible to implement.
The next best thing to RCV is far less of an improvement over RCV than RCV is over FPTP. I’d rather have STAR, but all of these options are broadly unknown, difficult to explain, and more complex to execute by hand than RCV. I’d rather have something, than stay stuck on FPTP.
I don’t disagree one bit.
I just want people to realize that anything is better than FPTP but we shouldn’t stop at RCV. We should relentlessly pursue democracy, ensuring that The People are represented in the most accurate way possible.
So yes, vote for RCV. But don’t let it be the destination.
Although the federal government cannot require private companies to observe holidays
JFC what a dystopian hellhole. It kills me they are so proud of their shitty living conditions.
Wait really, why coulsnt they force them to?!? In Canada companies that are open pay huge fines. Companies that are deemed essential do not recieve fines but have to pay 2.5 Mult to employees and if the employee does not work they get a days pay.
Money is God in America.
Okay, let’s give everybody holidays off.
…well, I guess we need essential services like police, fire, medical, etc.
…and if they’re going to work, they’re gonna need food, so restaurants should be open too.
…and if they all gotta get to work, we gotta have gas stations open as well.
…and with all these other people off, people are gonna vote then want the rest of the day to do things, so we should probably have stores and entertainment venues open also.
And now all the “minimum wage” people are stuck working on a holiday, while the people who can afford to be off actually get off.
Rinse and repeat for every current holiday.
To be honest i can’t tell if this is satire, spoof or against day off? I mean emergency social services are essential. Food and the rest are not, you do your shopping the day before and bring a lunch, self serve pumps are everywhere anywyas and entertainment services are not essential.
Tell that to all the companies that were starting black Friday on Thursday night.
I used to work in a cinema.
Christmas day was our single busiest day of the year, every year. Even with traditional Christmas activities like having family dinners and gift-giving, people still wanted to go see a movie. They couldn’t stay home with their families for just one day so we minimum wage saps didn’t get to stay home with ours.
Nothing I wrote was satire. This is exactly how it is in the US.
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If you have a white-collar job, enjoy your day off.
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If you have a blue-collar job, you might not have to work, depending on what holiday it is.
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If you have a service job, fuck your holiday because money.
I’m going to old all over the place. When I was a teen in the late 90s I worked at a grocery store. We were open 24/7 except three times per year. We closed at noon on Thanksgiving (reopened at 5am the next day), noon on Christmas Eve through Christmas Day, and noon on New Years Eve. We always had assholes come in to try to “get one thing that I forgot” but turned them away because they’d inevitably try to load up a full cart. We were given strict instructions to turn everyone away starring at noon sharp.
Now, grocery stores just stay open. Like, really, you can’t close even a couple of times per year to let people be with their families?
Going to the movies for Christmas is an American Jewish tradition, usually followed up by Chinese food
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It’s not satire, it’s 100% the reasoning that would be used in this argument. That’s the train of thought that we took towards covid.
In a long period like covid I can see part of the argument, but in a 1 day period food services are not essential. At all. Humans can survive without food for a day if they were dumb enough not to prepare.
Sure, I agree. But the CEOs of McDonalds and Wendy’s don’t want to miss a single day of profits and their wealth gives them a lot more political power than I have.
Oh, we are not proud of it. We’re trying to chip away at the absolutely fucked power structure, but the people in charge of the system have a vested interest in preserving it, with all of its fucked up little idiosyncrasies like this.
There were some good stats in there, but this wasn’t anything groundbreaking. I’m totally in favor of making Election Day a federal holiday, it’s arguably the most important day for the continuance of our democracy after all. BUT any action must take into account the fact that so many Americans don’t get federal holidays off, and employers can’t be forced to give them that time off. So there would have to be a fund or subsidy available to employers to continue paying their workers on this new day off. It should also be a kind of superholiday so even private employers are forced to observe it.
This, and getting rid of the electoral college should be a priority once we’ve soundly defeated the orange turd and can take a couple breaths.
Mail in voting across the board could be better than a federal holiday. In Washington, I get everything I need to vote in the mail: a ballot, a voter’s guide, a postage paid envelope. I literally don’t have to wear pants to vote. I can take a week to make a decision about something before I wander over to the nearest mailbox to drop off my ballot.
Never having done it, voting in person sounds awful.
Yeah, this is actually a better solution. There’s no legitimate non-partisan reason I can think of for why anyone would be against universal mail in voting.
Same in California, and I definitely need that extra time to review the ballot and figure out how I’m voting on ballot measures and for which local officials. The ballot is huge and relatively complicated, so I can’t imagine doing that in person either.
TBF, the only thing stopping you from not wearing pants to the polls is the weather.
Agreed to your last statement. I have only ever voted by mail in ballot and anything else seems inhumane.
Unless they’re going to do something like require octuple pay for anyone working on an election day, which in turn would fuck up the financial math of any business thinking about opening that day, making it a holiday won’t fix anything.
Mandate vote by mail federally. While your at it, copy Mexicos voter ID system and give everyone free voter ID’s.
Yes. Yes it should.
Or, you know, at least make it happen on a weekend, like normal countries do. The whole thing is such a weird quirk among so many other weird quirks that serve no purpose.
That doesn’t solve for people who work irregular shifts and don’t get weekends off, but may not have access to early or mail-in voting (which is where Republicans will take their insane restrictions if a holiday is made).
For sure, but it covers most people and it’s such a simple solution that it’s the standard starting point. You can go further than that, but this is the least you can do.
I think a combo covers everything if the Dems get a voting bill through:
- Federal holiday
- Early voting
- Mail-in if requested
- Absentee barriers lowered
That would cover pretty much anything (I think?).
No. All that needs to be done is make universal vote by mail the standard.
My state has been doing it for 24 years now, this will be the 7th Presidential election (2000, 4, 8, 12, 16, 20, 24) and 13th Congressional election. It works, it increases voter participation, there’s a built in paper trail, there’s nothing to not like about it.
Remember how 2014 had a record low turnout for a mid-term election?
"the lowest it’s been in any election cycle since World War II, according to early projections by the United States Election Project.
Just 36.4 percent of the voting-eligible population cast ballots as of last Tuesday, continuing a steady decline in midterm voter participation that has spanned several decades. The results are dismal, but not surprising – participation has been dropping since the 1964 election, when voter turnout was at nearly 49 percent."
Meanwhile, in my state:
https://www.oregonlive.com/politics/2014/11/voter_turnout_of_695_percent_i.html
"Turnout in this fall’s election reached 69.5 percent, just half a percent short of turnout in 2010 and 2006 and 1.5 percent better than in 2002, Secretary of State Kate Brown said Wednesday.
More than 1.5 million Oregonians cast ballots, a record high for a non-presidential election, while nearly 700,000 registered voters sat out."
I got home last night from work, voted, and ate dinner. Got up to go to work and tossed the ballot in my mailbox this morning. It was amazing. Being able to get an absentee ballot in NY has been absolutely wonderful.
I am a bit worried about my signature though lol I can’t remember if I signed with my stupid fresh out of highschool “script” signature on previous ballots that I used on my social security card, or my general signature I’ve been using for everything for decades now…
I mean, if it gets rejected, they will let you know. Good news is you can always re-register and update your signature.
Here, we have the motor voter registration, so it’s the same signature as my drivers license.
The military has allowed it since the civil war.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/debate-over-mail-voting-dates-back-civil-war-180976091/
There is one argument against everyone voting by mail that I accept:
People could be making “let’s go vote together”-meetups to make sure their friends are voting what they “should” - which would destroy freedom and privacy of the vote which are fundamental.
The same can also happen in abusive relationships where one partner can take away the freedom to vote what they want from the other by standing behind them when they fill out their ballot.Voting by mail is safe, but because of those two it should NEVER be the de-facto standard. It’s great to have more people voting - but whoever can should still vote personally if possible.
I know the setup of the voting booths is way worse in the US than here in Germany so both the way to them and the lines in front of them are longer, so that decision might flip towards voting by mail quicker, but imho voting in person should remain the standard - just because noone can look over your shoulder when you’re making your cross in that setting
Generally, it’s less “lets go vote together!” than it is “lets drop off our ballots together!”
Coercive voting is a crime, in 24 years we haven’t seen an incidence of it yet, but that was one of the FUD arguments when we voted for it.
“What’s to stop an employer from requiring employees to bring in their ballots and vote the company line?”
Well, it’s a crime. If you don’t trust your employees to vote, do you trust that not one will rat you out?
From my point of view both the police and the judges are getting heavily influenced by people with a less democratic agenda in mind.
Something like that would’ve never worked years ago - but with 4 more years of Trump handpicking judges? I wouldn’t even be sure the Supreme Court would strike something lime that down if it’s done subtle enough.
Same way for Colorado. It’s all the benefit of electronic voting, but with the added safety of paper ballots. And it’s a format we’re all familiar with from school – bubble in our answer (just with a pen instead of a number 2 pencil), and then turn it in. The counters feed the ballots into the counting machine, which tallies up the votes, then the ballots are stored in nice boxes, which can be retrieved and hand-counted on the off-chance the machines get hacked or otherwise…tampered with (Tina Peters, I’m looking at YOU…as you go to jail for 9 years! :3).
Just make it a Saturday and make it quick and easy to vote?
Then people can go to work before or after voting if they need.There is zero reason not to have more holidays.
I forget what country it is, but one has a rule that you can only vote in your place of birth on a holiday. So, people come together for reunion and they all go out and vote. Swell idea, IMO.
Uh…not a great idea.
Suppose my parents made the decision to move to Alaska instead of Colorado for my birth, then moved to Colorado where I grew up. I’d be asked to vote in Alaska’s elections, despite having no ties there, no stake in the outcome, and no reason to care about the issues. And if I’m to vote a Colorado ballot, why not let me vote that ballot from Colorado? If I want to go to a family reunion, I’ll go to a family reunion. I don’t need to be forced to go to one by being forced to vote in a state I no longer live in.
This is a popular wish from MAGA types who have been told that mail and early voting is fraudulent, which isn’t supported by evidence.
If you can vote early or by mail, there is no need for a holiday on the one voting day.
At the same time, we can’t expect every grocery store worker, police officer, air traffic controller, and truck driver, and everyone else, to be off simultaneously on the same day.
At the same time, we can’t expect every grocery store worker, police officer, air traffic controller, and truck driver, and everyone else, to be off simultaneously on the same day.
Here in BC, in Canada, you’re just guaranteed four hours off to vote. I think that with easier mail-in-voting (also easy to do here) would help you guys a lot.
I’m pretty far from a maga, and I fully support a federal holiday for it. It accentuates the importance of voting for democracy to thrive, IMO.
But I also think mail-in and early voting options should be a federal requirement as well. Right now states can impose limits on who is eligible for mail in, and that’s a huge problem.
To me its not one or the other, I think both should be done.
You can instead have elections on the weekend, which gives more opportunity to vote without requiring a public holiday. Nobody would choose Tuesday if they were designing the system today.
And yes, early and mail voting should be universally implemented as well.
Doesn’t matter either way as the only people guaranteed off on federal holidays are government employees.
