She had interviewed and met both remotely and in person, this guy was merely an HR drone confirming her documentation. I was a little bent when she told me he had asked her to remove her blur filter “to have a look at her working environment, make sure it’s not cluttered” (something along those lines). No one else at this company requested such. Was he way out of line?
I should note, this is my PC in our living room and not where she will be working from. And this guy wants a look around our home?! Told my wife to bring this up once she’s settled in, ask HR if this is policy. She started today!
She thinks it’s a racism thing. I’m not so sure, but I don’t have any other explanation.
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Oooh that’s a good point. Never thought of that.
Have they not got emails where you live?
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That would be fair, but the stated reason was to look at her background.
Hmm, so, policy in our office is a clean desk. Before you jump to conclusions, it’s because our secured area and office occasionally has people come through that should absolutely not see what information we have on our desks. This requirement is a compliance issue for our continued contracts and certifications.
Our work from home policy hasn’t addressed this issue, but it sounds like it’s a clear gap. Your neighbour coming around for a cup of tea absolutely should not be able to see any work related information.
My assumption is that someone has considered this kind of aspect and had a check to confirm that they’ve done diligence by asking you to reveal your working space. A space the companies sensitive information would be visible. Actually you too should maybe not be looking at your wife’s screen nor materials on her work desk. Depending on the situation.
Either way, policy comes first so perhaps her employment agreement or employee handbook would reveal more.
We have a clean desk policy at my workplace too, we also don’t take classified documents home
Bravo! A well stated and sane explanation. She will be working in the financial sector, so that explains much. Doesn’t quite fit her situation, but yeah, I get it.
How can one not have a clean desk when working remotely? Do people just print random documents for no good reason when you can just have it on the screen?
I don’t even think my work would even let me plug in a printer to my MacBook, they disabled all the USB drivers except mouse and keyboard to prevent usage of flash drives and other unauthorized peripherals.
They made damn sure the only thing displaying sensitive information is the computer screen, which automatically locks after 5 minutes and cannot be configured by the user. I’d really have to willingly show company data for this to be a problem.
That really shouldn’t matter at all for remote workers as everything should be self contained in the company provided computer, with encryption enabled, strong password policy, 2FA, the whole thing.
There was just a news article about US corporations hiring North Koreans for remote work unintentionally, and the north Koreans then did a sabotage and stole secrets… Strikes me as HR is freaking out across the board and they were looking to confirm you aren’t actually based in a foreign country. It is very easy to hide where you are(phone numbers can be forwarded, addresses can be false). If it’s a 1 time thing, not racism, if they consistently single her out, is there anyone else of her race being singled out? Did HR maybe get a derogatory report from someone that doesn’t like her and they wanted to see if she was sober? That’s happened to me.
KnowBe4 has an article about their experience.
They also covered at least one other instance in the US.
That is the reason why identification documents are needed. How can they hire people without knowing who they are?
NK stole the identity of other Americans. They dotted i’s and crossed t’s to get into knowb4 via social engineering. Really fucked up.
North koreans proving that a north korean can do the job of the average american tech worker lol
Seems like something sufficient IT security could prevent easily enough.
I was a little bent when she told me he had asked her to remove her blur filter “to have a look at her working environment, make sure it’s not cluttered” (something along those lines).
Creepy.
…cluttered? the fuck?
has this fucker seen a cubicle? why did she allow it?
Huge, HUGE red flag. Even without it being I9 stuff.
I have worked remotely for 8+ years at this point. Sometimes I don’t even turn my camera on for meetings. It depends on a lot of factors. If my employer cared about any of that, they probably wouldn’t be a good employer for remote work.
Long before Covid, the company I worked for started trialing work from home for some call center agents. They had a whole list of requirements for an acceptable work from home space: dedicated work area with a desk, locking file drawer (why??? I don’t know), first aid kit, fire extinguisher, etc. Someone would actually go out to physically inspect the space to make sure every box was checked.
My guess is someone from legal wrote up the requirements from a workplace safety standpoint. They probably could have just had the employee sign a statement agreeing that they met all of the requirements, but someone in the middle got overzealous about their role. During Covid, everyone got sent home permanently without any regard to any of those rules, so clearly they weren’t that important in the first place.
We need to provide a photo of our home work area as part of our application for work from home. It’s needed as part of the employer’s duty of care - managers are supposed to examine the photo and determine its a safe work area
Really all that happens is a photo is attached to the application and never looked at
I doubt American employers have any duty of care towards work from home employees.
I bet the unblurring was about being able to see the documents. AI blur is pretty aggressive at blurring anything that isn’t a face
If they want to see my green screen colored walls, it’s up to them. I think the background looks better when it’s dark abstract art, less distracting than bright green.
Your title suggests that you’re asking whether it seems like a violation to you.
Only you can answer this question.
I love tom scott.
me too! international treasure. and yes, that’s where i learned about grice’s maxims.
It genuinely helped me with communication I think. (I’m autistic)
AHRAB
All HR Are Bastards?
That’s a bingo
I initially read it as someone saying ‘Arab’ in a stereotypical Southern drawl, and I was confused.
I don’t know if they’re all bastards, but HR is absolutely not your friend. Human Resources <> protections for employees. Instead, Human Resources = protection for the company
I don’t know if they’re all bastards
As it’s not likely that all people who work in HR have unmarried parents, it’s probably less literal language that labels them as belonging to a group of people who would harm you if it suited their interests.
All the HR people I’ve known who were not like that eventually left their job, because what they were asked to do went beyond their moral boundaries. Leaving HR to be the ones who were, indeed, those who didn’t feel such qualms.
Technically anything that is a “resource” for a company is something that is meant to be exploited for profit.
Post pandemic, this kind of ID “verification” is SUPER bogus, but it’s quite common unfortunately, and, tbh, I can’t think of a better way to handle it that isn’t either in person or via snail mail.
Not great for sure, but most likely not racist, or at least not purposefully so (not that that matters).
I’m not sure what was going on, but a clear background can tell you a lot about a person. I’ve had a few interviewees that applied for US work with no sponsorship turn out to be not already in the US. Pretty sure they were trying to fake it long enough to get us to agree to sponsorship, or overlook the fact they weren’t in the US. The interviewees were both caught because of details in the background during the interview process. Weather and time of day outside the windows not matching where they claimed to live was one, the other was architecture that would be very atypical in a US home.
Excuse me sir. I can’t help but notice the Eiffel Tower out your window. Are you sure you’re calling from the US?
Reporting from Las Vegas, babyyy
*spins a roulette *
I guess they’ll have to get a shipping container office
Based on the condensation on that wall back there, I’m guessing he’s in the Port of Los Angeles right now sir.
Sorry I’m just cracking up at the idea of sensitive state secret-involving location-based jobs using people’s work surroundings as the criterion for confirming they’re not a foreign actor.
Like if that’s the level of security we’re putting on our state secrete we are fucked.
People are downvoting you, but you’re correct. I don’t work a particularly sensitive or interesting tech job, but we’ve had 2 candidates in the last year who were faking who/where they were. One had other people in the room feeding them answers. I’d expect weirdness in remote interviews as companies figure out how to navigate this.
Uh, I hire a lot of remote people, and have been remote for a long time. That is absolutely not fucking normal. I’m not going to say racism/poor/or anything, but I will say asshole behavior and huge red flag.
I’ve been remote the past 5 years as well. I’ve never heard of anyone, anywhere, for any reason being asked to un-blur video. Customers, vendors, coworkers, everyone does it. In fact, I consider it more professional, and certainly less distracting to do so unless you background is 100% work dedicated. Hence my post.
I agree! I brought this up with my team and they all laughed at it, and brought up too that “Wouldn’t it look more professional having it on?”
Even in a 100% work dedicated office, there is no background that looks as professional and uncluttered as a blurred one.
I only unblur if I’m showing off my bookshelf or video game posters
I only leave my stuff unblurred cuz my cats like to be on cam.
My cat will get in front of me on camera, so blurring wouldn’t even do anything
okay but consider that you don’t have as much surveilance of your employees, and without that, how are you supposed to discipline them?
Just checking, youre being sarcastic right?
I was riffing on the original and translated titles of foucault’s most well known work. whether it was sarcasm or not; 🤷♀️
Why does she think it’s a racism thing?
No one else at this company requested such. Was he way out of line?
People who experience discrimination develop a sense for when someone is othering them. It’s not always correct, because it involves intuition, and you can misread people. But will still develop a sense for it.
OP should consider screen-recording her zoom calls.
Anybody know a good screen recording program for Linux that doesn’t alert Zoom to the recording?
Run Zoom in a VM and record from the host maybe?
If you use the browser version of Zoom, it would have no way to know
But why racism is particular? Sure I see how she has been “othered” by the interviewer, but why racism?
I have a birthmark that reads ‘VAGINA’ on my face.
Some people treat me differently from the moment I meet them.
I say, “I think that those people are reacting to my birthmark.”You ask: “Why assume they react to your VAGINA birthmark in particular?”
- The VAGINA birthmark is visible.
- People have made fun of me for having it before.
- I can see facial expressions when people perceive it, and notice features of judgemental reaction in their speech and behaviour after.
Now, apply this to OP’s wife. OP says this about her:
If I hadn’t seen the blatant discrimination she’s faced job hunting, I’d be more skeptical. She’s Filipino, but that’s “Mexican” to many. When I say blatant, I mean to say heads would roll if we had some of this on camera. She’s mostly unhurt by these things, just figures that’s the way of the world. But damn. One lady asked if she was Asian and was visibly appalled. Another said she would have to attend their church, and barely stopped short of asking her to renounce Catholicism. There’s much more I’m not remembering ATM.
I’m heavily autistic. I’ve figured this all out logically, as a person who has experience discrimination myself. It wasn’t easy, because I don’t grasp social cues natively. I thought I’d been doing something wrong for a long long time when people initially appraised me as ‘other’, but it turned out they were just being judgement assholes. If you’re not heavily autistic, I believe it should be easier for you to figure all this out, right?
…you have a birthmark in the shape of legible english characters, not just one, but a full sequence which spell a word?..
It was a metaphor, lol
It was a dumb metaphor that made no sense.
So, a visible difference that some other people react to with prejudice is not like racism. Got it.
You ask: “Why assume they react to your VISIBLE ETHNIC DIFFERENCES in particular?”
- The VISIBLE DIFFERENCES are visible.
- People have made fun of me for having those VISIBLE DIFFERENCES before.
- I can see facial expressions when people perceive THOSE VISIBLE DIFFERENCES, and notice features of judgemental reaction in their speech and behaviour after.
I’m sure you can comprehend why removing the controversial topic of ethnic differences [controversial because e.g. some people want to claim racism is does not happen any longer, or is not of any importance when it does because ‘it’s illegal to discriminate’] to replace it with another visible difference made it a suitable metaphor. I’m sure that you knew this, in fact, when you called it ‘dumb’.
Your annoyance is, therefore, possibly more at me saying that a woman is allowed to believe she is being targeted for racist reasons, and that such a woman should be listened to fairly. Feel free to clarify on that, if you wish. As for me, I logically believe that racism exists, as I have seen it. And that people can intuit when it is happening, as I have seen it. And that other people can disagree with it, because they profit from racism being ignored, as I have seen it.Or maybe the problem is with you?
Yeah that was a shit metaphor.
I think it made sense to most other people who read it
I’m autistic also and I understood it just fine.
Well if you aren’t willing to engage in any sort of introspection all metaphor is stupid probably.
The irony of the autistic person using a metaphor, and someone else taking it too literally. You have to laugh!
It’s about as likely as someone starting and ending all of their writing with ellipses, with some of those ellipses being incomplete.
… all part of the flow mang…
She’s probably a race
Is this the US? Because iirc there’s some workplace injury stuff in some EU countries, where the company might be liable and so they might need to advise you to do certain things to prevent injury if you work remotely.
Not trying to take the wind out of your sails, just making ppl aware.
I’ve had similar language in employment agreements in the US and in Japan, framed around safety and insurance compliance. I never had to send an actual picture, but I’m pretty sure they said they reserved the right to ask for one.
Same thing in Canada. When we transitioned to fully remote we had to ensure that our workspace is safe.
It’s actually a really nice thing to know that (a) your country makes sure you get into less accidents and (b) that your company usually pays for any workplace accidents, even if it’s remote.
I work remotely at a company in the EU where they actually host seminars about posture and stuff because it’s better for them than dealing with workplace injury from bad posture.
… except they ask you for a photo in.the other direction, showing your chair and desk and keyboard. And not by surprise, just “send us a picture sometime to file for the audit”.
Idk, every company is different and so is every country.
But let me also make clear, I’m not arguing this isn’t odd. Just some things to rule out before going mayhem.
