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Could also cover freeways (also reduce glare during your commute)
But parking lots are a good idea too
Yeah, plastering parking lots over prime agricultural land was definitely a mistake. And it’s hard to wind that back. We just need to make sure new infrastructure and planning reduces car dependency rather than further entrenching it.
The only reason I would be against this is because it disincentivizes removing large parking lots, which are primarily a waste of space. If we could replace some of that wasted space with housing (which could also have solar slapped on it) that would be ideal.
Ok but like why wouldn’t a solar farm be an acceptable alternative?
Putting solar farms in urban areas instead of rural ones doesn’t make much sense.
How so? A) Less transmission lines to where it’s needed and b) more qualified/trained staff centralized to the solar installs.
I’m not against rural solar by any stretch but I can’t fathom being against urban solar? We need to solar all the things.
In my post I literally said that solar can be put on top of houses so I’m not sure why you want to argue with me about this. I just think urban areas are better served by homes with solar on top than parking lots with solar on top.
This picture/render looks like it’s in Europe, where that could maybe be feasible. In the US, though, I think we need to take what we can get.
I’ve seen this concept myself built in the Netherlands already, if I’m not mistaken
Parking lots ain’t going anywhere.
My comment specified large parking lots for a reason. The amount of space wasted around seldom used, high volume areas (like stadiums) is absurd, and other countries have shown they’re much better served by increased public transit, not giant parking lots that sit empty 300+ days of the year.
This was a parking lot, now it’s a peaceful oasis!
Oh yeah buddy what temp is it outside rn?
Asphalt loves heating cities up
This article is literally about shading the asphalt
Yeah but asphalt is usually chosen due to it being the cheap and easy option, I can’t imagine anywhere that hasn’t already used concrete is happy to spend more on their parking lot unless forced, and tbh if of there’s enough solar panels in the world to match US’s parking lot surface area
The energy generated by commercial solar installations is then sold, generating income. No one’s expecting parking lot owners to do this out of the goodness of their heart
They are and they must. There is no path forward that doesn’t massively disinvest from personal vehicles.
They must, but they aren’t. The infrastructure investments to make mass transit preferable in sprawling cities will not happen soon enough. The people in power will not compromise their worship of free markets for climate change. Over time, the market will transition that way, but not any faster under the current system.
They are in large cities. Look at aerial photos of, e.g. Washington DC from 20 years ago vs today and you’ll see many fewer parking lots.
Too bad the driving force is gentrification.
US auto-domination isn’t even the result of market forces though.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a fan of laissez-faire policy or capitalism in general, but government funded highway lanes are no more capitalist than government funded rail tracks. The current situation in the US required enormous government intervention to establish, in the form of the forced seizure of property to make way for highways, hundreds of billions of dollars (inflation adjusted) to build those highways, mandatory parking minimums for new construction (to store all the cars from the highway), government subsidies for suburban style development and later on tax schemes that resulted in poorer inner city areas subsidizing wealthy suburbs, and zoning laws that made it illegal to build a business in a residential area (which worked together with anti-loitering laws to make it so that if you didn’t live in a neighborhood you had no “legitimate” reason to be there. It’s not a coincidence this happened in the wake of desegregation.)
Similarly fossil fuel production in the US actually receives direct government subsidies at the federal and sometimes state level (some of which have been in effect since 1916).
Now, we can get into the weeds and talk about how government action is actually a necessary part of capitalism and the intertwined nature of power structures and so on and so forth, but it’s important to remember that there’s nothing inevitable or natural about the mess we’re in right now, as some would have you believe. It required conscious planning and choices, as well as tremendous effort and tremendous injustice to get here.
Oh, I know full well that the free market did not get us here. I’m saying that the politicians will, at best, force us to use the free market to make progress. Rules for thee and whatnot. Things will probably happen more slowly than that, as auto makers will resist the market forces more than we can push in the markets’ direction.
Who is gonna tell him that solar panels on roofs exist ☠️☠️☠️
I think you’re kind of missing the point, having solar panels in parking lots would add use to otherwise useless land. There’s plenty of them in the US and it would also create a relief from the concrete hotspots that it makes. I mean have you ever been walking through a parking lot and hating your life because you’re sweating so much?
This idea has been around 20 years…
The problem has always been cost.
Costs that have dropped precipitously over the past 20 years
It’s not the cost of the panels, it’s the cost of the structure to hold them. And the maintenance involved.
There are solar generating facilities literally everywhere now. To mount them high enough to park under is a miniscule cost difference. There are also already massive parking lots with covers all over the place. We have probably 5,000+ covered parking spaces at the airport in my city, for example
I get that. That really makes sense. Tho it kind of makes it harder to then justify getting rid of parking to improve density. But this will most likely also not happen otherwise so yeah
Or even better: banning all single story parking lots to have less sealed area. Then putting solar panels above the unsealed area and allowing nature to own everything below the solar panels, instead of agricultural conglomerates who pollute the ground water and produce food for livestock.
You could put solar on both?
Trees and roofs are kinda mutually exclusive.
Depends. Some agro-PV systems I have seen are 50% transparent. The plants get a sufficient amount of light, and are protected from hail and heavy rain.
I have even seen a prototype where the pillars for the panels incorporate a rail system on which sowing, weeding, and harvesting tools can run electrically in instead of being pulled by a tractor.
PV coverings also trap some ambient heat and regulate the surface temperature better than full exposure, acting like a greenhouse that encourages plant growth.
Folks so set on zero sum systems that they ignore synergies.
Most of the growth in solar has been market driven. It’s why Texas has a lot of solar despite them subsidizing oil and gas. It’s free, plentiful energy that hits the ground almost every day. If you have boatloads of land that’s not ideal for farming, yet not too hot for much of the year, it makes economic sense.
If the U S didn’t subsidize corn for ethanol it might make even more sense to build solar instead of grow corn. And then you could grow other crops under the solar panels.
That’s already a thing. They’re called solar canopies, and they’re covering school parking lots in CA.
Roofed parking would be pretty sick, compared to having your car baked through in the sun. But multi-story parking decks would be even better, or even just parking lots with trees.
It’s not like we’re actually short on space to build solar panels on. We already have lots of roofs.
Whatever we build, it’ll have a top! And on top should be either something green or solar panels.
Oddly Costco does this.
Is it prime agriculture land if no one is using it for prime agricultural land?
Yes.
Land use doesn’t determine soil quality, but soil quality often determines land use.
Seems like solar panels can be easily relocated when the land is desired to be used for agriculture. I admittedly don’t know what the loss would be on some of the power infrastructure for routing this would be though.
I believe they are relatively hard to move, but I’m not a solar expert by any stretch (though it’s a different story when it comes to soil).
Somewhat related: putting panels on reclaimed tailings ponds or waste rock dumps is a good idea, in that usually these have an engineered cover (rock/soil/LDPE) That limits rooting depth (don’t want plants reaching what we are trying to protect [toxic waste]) so we plant grasses and shit rather than trees. Grasses + panels is the best of both cover stability and green energy
Is your nation truly food secure if you are relying on imports? Can you be certain that in 20, 50, 100 years that land would still be better as solar panels than farmlands?
son, I cant watch my streaming channels with electricity from wheat fields. we need them photovoltaic cells so I can check my sites
What is it with 50 yr old and Ben hur?
YO! I’m not fuckin fifty… yet… Ben Hur came out in 1959 so the film would be 25 years old before a current 50 year old could even partially understand it…
wife and I watch it around easter. heston’s over-acting is fucking hysterical
Solar panels aren’t permanent. Seems the land can be used as current needs require.
Likely it was used on parts of them that are actually agricultural, then the fossil fuel industry paid good money to call every hill a prime agricultural land.
Not a bad idea but not sure how they’d handle snowfall.
Sunlight tends to be negligible during snowfall season, anyway.
I could be wrong on this but i thought i remembered some engineer youtuber saying that sun panels naturally emit enough heat to prevent snow from forming? (Fact check me on that)
And they’re hydrophobic. I hear snow is rarely an issue, but would be interested to hear from someone with actual experience.
Hi, I have solar on my roof in Colorado. Solar panels are glass, so depending on angle snow will accumulate and slide off dramatically if not for snow bars either on the bottom of the panels, or more commonly the roof below the solar panels. The structure needs to be able handle the snow load and be designed so snow doesn’t slide off and kill people.
There’s a train station parking lot where I live which has solar canopies over the car spots.
In the winter, snow and ice accumulates and does fall off. A few years ago a saw a big section of ice/slush slough off and almost hit a kid waiting for their parent to pick them up.
I’m not sure how bad it really is overall, but the photo in this post doesn’t look much like an area which gets snowfall.
a big section of ice/slush slough off and almost hit a kid waiting for their parent to pick them up.
I have heard of this. Don’t park under a roof with solar panels while it’s snowing.
Snow will accumulate on solar panels (source - have rooftop solar on Colorado). Panels are glass so snow will slide off depending on angle, and since panels are dark they tend to melt snow quicker once they get started melting, typically causing the snow to slide off dramatically.
But only in one case sure the farmer get money without doing anything with his field.
Improved wool output on farms with solar panels
Depends. Are there lots of tall buildings around the parking lot? Solar panels are made of a lot of rare metals and so we have to be very selective about where we install them to maximize energy output. For this region large open spaces near the equator work well. Not that they can’t work elsewhere, or couldn’t work over a parking lot, but there’s a lot of variables that have to be considered on each individual level.
Solar panels are made of a lot of rare metals
Rare Earth Metals aren’t actually that rare, although they do tend to be concentrated in countries outside our traditional western sphere of influence. We’re seeing a lot of political wrangling in South America and Central Africa, precisely because countries like Bolivia and the Democratic Republic of Congo have an outsized stock of these minerals. In fact, a big part of the conflict in Rwanda along their border with the Congo stems from illegal mining and black market export of minerals, and the subsequent criminal cartelization that’s sprung up around this traffic.
there’s a lot of variables that have to be considered on each individual level
If you’re talking about a globally coordinated geo-engineering project to maximize solar electricity production, then yes - building a big band of solar plants inside the Tropics zone would yield the biggest band for buck. But then moving that electricity out again becomes a challenge, particularly if you’re trying to get it to mega-cities like NYC or Tokyo or London or Beijing.
If you’re just trying to generate local green power in Ohio, without running massive HVDC lines all the way down to the Yucatan Peninsula, then covering the Browns Stadium or the JACK Cleveland Casino in solar panels is as good a use of solar infrastructure as anything.
Yeah like it’s not always a bad thing to commit resources with less than perfect efficiency. Having renewable energy is better than having none every time.
It’s not so much that they’re rare as there is a known limited supply of them and the means of harvesting them currently creates a lot of pollution. Fossil fuels are obviously worse in this regard. And even nuclear has a limited supply in terms of naturally available fuel sources.
Renewable energy should be operated in the manner that best protects the environment, and we should be trying to waste as little possible in operating it. For those reasons I think efficiency and sunlight hours are important considerations. The fossil fuel industry is extremely wasteful and destructive. The renewable industry should be the opposite of that.
It’s not so much that they’re rare as there is a known limited supply of them and the means of harvesting them currently creates a lot of pollution.
And this is where we get into the real economic problem of any industrial scale energy project. FFS, its not like labor abuses and property mismanagement were foreign to the coal or O&G industries. But when people talk about a Green New Deal, a bit part of the project is about building social infrastructure alongside energy infrastructure, such that you’re not ending up with a bunch of strip mines and company towns doing what Standard Oil/Exxon and Peabody Energy were doing 50 years ago.
The fact that these rare earth metals are in countries with large native populations that westerners are dismissive of / openly hostile to doesn’t help things either. How many American petrochemical CEOs would love to revisit King Leopold II’s run through the Congo, if it meant profits on par with what Saudi ARAMCO generate?
Renewable energy should be operated in the manner that best protects the environment, and we should be trying to waste as little possible in operating it.
That would require a degree of political economy afforded to the folks living in and around the areas of resource extraction and labor exploitation. And that’s where I think we run into real problems.
Even as we speak, the state of Georgia is gearing up for some serious labor conflicts around their EV battery plants. Labor groups are attempting to unionize the battery giga-factories being built there, while Atlanta’s Cop City is being constructed to crack down on it. And that’s in the relatively peaceful and post-industrial Atlantic Seaboard. Bolivia’s on its second failed coup attempt in less than four years.
I could very easily see us doing an Iraq-style intervention into one of these big cobalt/lithium exporting countries, on the grounds that they’re being oppressed by an evil government state nationalization program. Ask Gamal Abdel Nasser or Salvadore Allende what happens after that.
Nah, just give like Walmart and Target and other stores that have large parking lots a tax break or something.
FUCK THAT. Levvy additional taxes on any Corp that doesn’t utilize their solar potential while subsidizing the cost of the panels.
Solar panels don’t use any “rare metals.” Solar carport projects simply cost 3-4x more on a per watt basis than large “green field” ground mount projects. This is due to the increased structural, permitting, and install costs. Carports also cannot track the sun, which reduces their output by about 20%.
A few parking lots near us have that and parking there is a treat on hot summer days!
