Despite how hot it is, landlords in Tennessee are not required to keep the air conditioning running.
In our changing climate, that probably comes as a surprise.
However, unless it’s in the lease, nothing in Tennessee’s Landlord-Tenant Act gives renters the right to air conditioning.
“I think it’s unfair. It’s inhumane to me because without air we can’t live and breathe,” said Anita Brown.
something in common with prisoners! Hell yeah Tennessee!
As an American you don’t have a right to universal healthcare and you’re worried about air conditioning?
Multiple things can be bad at the same time
This is also a lot more achievable than total healthcare reform. Both are achievable for sure, but just forcing landlords to install and maintain aircon is easier
Sure except air conditioning is not a right. It’s a luxury.
This is soon to pass as a bylaw in my city. I hope all the landlords have chapped asses over it. ALAB.
I had a friend that was not allowed to run air conditioning in his flat. The landlord said the old wiring could not handle it. I said that all you needed was a decent UPS (they make these just for window units in India), but my friend just moved instead. 100+ F is too hot in a flat during Summer.
While I admit I didn’t pursue it when I lived in a similar situation, there’s a case to be made that would violate electrical code. You should be able to safely plug in any appliance which meets the limitation of the outlet.
In my case, I just ignored that and got a window AC anyway. Granted it was a lot smaller than needed and even that made the lights dim, but it did plug in to a standard outlet. Probably not a good choice but the easy choice
The landlord said the old wiring could not handle it.
If wherever it was was dry, you can use an evaporative cooler. They can only cool so much, but they’re far more energy efficient than an air conditioner.
You can also get low-end portable air conditioners. These are noisier and not as energy-efficient as a window unit, but you can get pretty small-capacity ones that will run on regular 120V lines, don’t need 240V. It’ll maybe keep a room cool.
https://www.amazon.com/GE-Conditioner-Dehumidify-Evaporation-Installation/dp/B09WSH44RQ
Here’s an 850 watt one. Most microwaves will pull more power than that.
I used to live in an apartment that also explicitly disallowed window units. The apartment did have a fireplace though, and I figured hot air rises, so we just shoved a window unit in there and let the hot air vent out the chimney.
It did the trick, and we never agreed not to install a fireplace unit.
I feel like the habitability requirement might be governing on issues of extreme heat.
Yes. Temperature range is one of the basic requirements not just for life but for all physical phenomena.
AC is not going to change the presence of air, so I am not sure what the last quote is supposed to mean.
Most people at least in the South just say, “Turn on the air,” when talking about the AC.
Interesting. Never heard this, at least explains part of that quote.
But I get downvoted for asking, while the US people (as is usual) expect people to know some regional slang. Reminds me of this: TO: “someone was gassed” P1: “Gassed, what kind of gas?” -250 P2: “They were physically tapped, like a car without gas” +170
Since P1 still did not understand it, people got pissed, even mocking for asking, while the explanation of P2 actually contradicts the real meaning but gets massive upvotes (relative to usual numbers in that sub). You do not need to take my word for it, this is where it starts (who I call TO): link here
Excessive heat and related stress has unpleasant and sometimes deadly effects on human physiology.
Even affecting brain function.
Panting is one way of shedding excess heat, but if it’s so hot that even panting doesn’t work…
Yes, sure. Nobody says otherwise. But air for breathing is there regardless of AC, so I did not see how that is connected. Someone else said they just call AC “air” there, which explains it partly, but obviously you still do not need AC for breathing. That is in no way connected. You can breath super cold and super hot air without a problem.
With as high as the humidity is in the south, it can feel really hard to breathe sometimes when it’s that hot - a friend of mine once described it as trying to breathe through a hot wet towel. Since she’s got breathing problems, that’s likely what she means.
People with breathing problems have problems breathing, how could I disagree?
Breathing air that is so wet it even condenses inside my nose (dew point above 37 °C) feels good. I have not heard people complain about too humid air (for breathing, not buildings etc.) so far. Only the other way around: Breathing air that has a dew point below something like -10 °C can be a really unpleasant if the air itself is warm.
Ok
anything to fuck over poor people…
i think it is disingenuous to represent that AC is a standard or required by law for a rental anywhere, at least in the US. I do find it shitty that the AC included with the unit is damaged, and land(slum)lord won’t fix it, but again, unless it’s in the lease there really is no requirement that the LL provide it in US. I think it is good to start a discussion on if AC for a rental should be the law, but i doubt we will see that become the case, especially in southern states which probably would need it most.
I think if the air conditioner was there when she toured the unit, it’s implicitly part of the contract.
Central Air absolutely needs to be a requirement on all new construction. And window units need to be mandatory unless requested otherwise in every bed room.
It’s way too hot these days in the car majority of the US for this to be safe.
Why would you require both central air and window units?
I meant to imply if there wasn’t central air.
We also don’t technically require that you have a steady supply of oxygen in your apartment, but I’m guessing you’d find it unreasonable if you woke up to find yourself in a vacuum.
Do we even have a law that says landlords can’t make it exactly 100 degrees Fahrenheit inside your apartment using heaters? Or a law that specifically makes clear that there’s no noise machine installed in the walls? Do we really have to specify every fucking thing or can people just be reasonable?
I don’t know if you’ve seen all of human history, but no, people can’t be reasonable. Look at the need for mask mandates if you want a recent example.
can people just be reasonable?
Not when there are pearls to be clutched.
It’s just fucked up that an appliance that’s connected to the actual rental unit doesn’t need to be operational by law. I mean, if the 'fridge dies in a TN rental unit is the landlord required to fix it or does that need to be specified in the lease also?
It’s just basic consumer protection, IMO. The AC comes with the apartment, the landlord should be required to maintain it.
i think it is disingenuous to represent that AC is a standard or required by law for a rental anywhere, at least in the US.
Having AC is a standard and required by law in many places in the US
https://www.rent.com/blog/keeping-cool-tenant-landlord-responsibilities-air-conditioning/
that didn’t have any list of states, but my curiosity lead me here https://propertyclub.nyc/article/apartment-air-conditioning-laws#what-states-require-air-conditioning
i was pleasantly surprised to find 24 states that do require it, with some other states that have some loopholes.
I tried to find the list but brain failed me and i kept getting bar association stuff. Did you know that while Missouri doesn’t require AC it does require that units be kept to a ‘habitable’ temperature, and there’s enormous case law defining that word that makes it defacto required but technically not.
When I was 21 and moving into a shitty rental with my now wife, the place didn’t have AC and we moved in during a terrible heat wave. We bought one window unit so we could at least sleep at night. Later bought one more to make the whole space livable. Those units aren’t expensive, pick up an extra shift or two and you can buy one. When we moved into a place with central air we sold one and gave one away.
pick up an extra shift or two and you can buy one
If all it takes is a shift or two, then landlords can surely recoup the costs with an extraordinarily small increase of rent (pennies or single digit dollars).
Or just their hard earned money through doing nothing at all and sponging like the parasites they are.
Agreed. If it’s law they’ll get it done (mostly, there are always bad landlords in court). But there are still a lot of places where it isn’t law, and I’m not just talking about the US. But if it’s too hot to be at home, spend a little extra time at work and fix the problem.
I’d argue that if it’s a feature of the unit that was present when someone signed, then yes it should be required to work.
Of course contracts can’t cover every little thing, so it’s ridiculous to rely on them for that level of granularity. Do we need to mandate contracts have an Entry for every feature of every appliance, every piece of infrastructure, every piece of structure? No. These things were presented as being there and functioning. But we should be able to rely on things working as presented. We should have a legal right that that be true
Honestly we probably already do. Most judges, if you said “Look the thing was there when he showed me the unit. That makes it part of the offered deal”, would back you.
That’s what I would expect and would be consistent with my limited experience, but doesn’t appear to be borne out by the original story
If the building becomes unlivable it’s an issue. high temps with high humidity can literally lead to heat stroke since no amount of fans will help since you literally can’t cool off even with sweating.
What that fix is, I’m not sure, but some buildings in areas of the south become ovens during heat waves and without AC people will get sick or die.
i absolutely agree, my point is less that there are or are not health concerns, just that it is currently not a requirement, at least anywhere I have lived. i believe it should be, but I know that the south passing legislation that helps vulnerable people at the expense of those who own property is probably never going to happen. i just felt like it was odd that the article was stating that there is no law in the state, without emphasizing that most states do not either.
Some areas have basic consumer protection. Such as a habitation must be fit to live in.
Renting out an apartment with 2 feet of water in it all times, or black mold, or no water or front door is often covered by specific legislation and then, if not, then by the consumer protection statutes.
Which may be the approach some lawyers will have to take if this gets bad enough.
“I can live in my apartment except for 5 weeks where I have to go someplace else” is what we may start seeing in future civil actions.
Even if people argue it’s fit to live in, it should be covered by consumer protections as you paid for it, so you should get it, unless the contract specifically calls it out as not working
Blame building codes and politics. Including an AC in every build could inflate the costs making it unaffordable too.
But the post in question says there is AC. It’s just broken and the landlord doesn’t want to fix it. That’s not ok
If somethings not required by code, and if its not part of the lease why would it need to work?
Because it was represented as a feature when someone decided to rent the place. Otherwise it’s a “bait and switch” and should be fraudulent
For example, nothing requires an outlet or switch to work, as long as it’s safe, but we expect that to work. I doubt anything requires all burners on a stove to work, but it’s certainly expected. Nothing requires windows to open but it’s expected.
Because it was represented as a feature when someone decided to rent the place.
Pardon? It wasn’t on the lease, so it wasn’t.
For example, nothing requires an outlet or switch to work, as long as it’s safe, but we expect that to work. I doubt anything requires all burners on a stove to work, but it’s certainly expected. Nothing requires windows to open but it’s expected.
Actually, codes and legislations do! Your entire comment is misguided yeesh. AC IS different since no codes, legislations, or the lease requires it. A stove is require by code, legislations, and lease, so if it doesn’t work, that’s an issue.
So you understand the very important distinction now….? Probably not, but do you?
It’s not any different.
- Maybe in some situations a stove is required but as long as it’s safe and can be used, there is nothing requiring every feature to work, nor is it in the contract. There is no explicit requirement that all four burners work. However, if it is there we all expectant to work
- electrical code has requirements for safety and for minimum level of service, but after that, nothing requires everything to work nor is that detailed in the contract. There is no requirement for electrical service beyond the minimum. However, we do expect them all to work and have the legal advantage
In the same way, AC is not required feature. However if it is there when I decide to rent and I have decided to rent with that information then I do expect it to work and I do call it fraud if it doesn’t
The lease isn’t the only information on which the deal is based.
Because it was represented as a feature when someone decided to rent the place. Pardon? It wasn’t on the lease, so it wasn’t
It’s been a long time since I rented but maybe purchasing a house has an analogy.
- I was told I had to leave behind wired in speakers when I sold my townhouse. The buyers had seen them in their tour so could legally expect them, and my contract hadn’t called them out as an exception. Legally they had the advantage
- The house I bought was missing a ceiling fan that I had seen during the tour and it hadn’t been called out as an exception. Legally I had the advantage and the sellers had to replace it at their cost
It is part of the lease. She was shown a certain apartment, with certain appliances. She signed a lease for that apartment. It’s understood the lease covers the facilities in the apartment.
I doubt adding AC would make it unaffordable, other than the renter having to pay the electric bill. The federal government, some cities, and most electric providers offer incentives to purchase and install modern HVAC units. window units are also an affordable option included in or allowed in many rentals.
The federal government, some cities, and most electric providers offer incentives to purchase and install modern HVAC units
Which is because there’s a market to sell them, make it mandatory and there is no reason to have sales or grants, it’s a guaranteed sell. Which is also politics….
It’s an extra 3-5k on the sticker price, that’s unaffordable for a large swath of people, especially when the house is only 60k anyways.
Where the hell are you finding 60k houses or 4K hvacs? lmao
I agree with your comment but your numbers are all way too low.
I had jury duty once and the air conditioning was acting up. Judge announced we would all be moving to a different room as a result, which we did.
Guess it isn’t a luxury when it’s a judge’s place of work.
It’s very much a selective thing. Humans vs meat machines.
I’m a meat machine. The factory I work in regularly gets over 90°F in the summer and being on long Island its also humid as fuck like 75%+.
I checked the NY state laws on factory conditions and wouldn’t you know it, the fucking laws are vague as shit to allow essentially anything… “All factories must maintain a reasonable temperature and humidity.” That’s the fucking law. “Reasonable” is not defined anywhere in that law… I contacted my
business cuck"R"epresentative about what that law means or how we determine what is reasonable, and yet again wouldn’t you know, he never responded…Bohemia area by the mini airport? Did some factory work in that part of LI. Yes it can very much feel like you are working in a sauna there.
That’s actually the area where I went to learn HVAC! I’m much more east now past Riverhead actually, I couldn’t deal with the traffic lol
Happy cake day apparently! Lol
Been there done that too when I was a toolmaker. Old buildings with no air flow, (except in the winter on sub-zero F days). But hey, sometimes on the really bad days we would get an extra 5 minutes at break. And maybe on very rare occasions, a Popsicle.
Good times…
Start a fire
For ambulances, if the air conditioning is broken in the patient compartment it’s considered a critical fault and the vehicle needs to be out of service. In the cab it’s a minor. Maybe it’s in case a judge needs to be transported.
Most of the world can’t afford air conditioning. We’re talking something like five billion people or way more.
I mean first of all, not every part of the world needs it. Second… everyone who needs it and can’t afford it should also have access.
Giving it to group A does not, in cases like this, preclude group B from it as well.
Most American take ever…
How is a ‘right to AC’ gonna solve climate change lol.
Why does your version of climate change mitigation include intractable suffering from the poor and minorities?
Nice strawman argument, not really what I said haha
It does not matter whether you’re poor or minority or what. In Europe we all have to suffer. And 31°C is also quite common here in summer and barely anyone as AC.
There are some edge cases where it would make sense to have a right to it (medical conditions e.g.) but besides that I think it’s just an american privilege debate.
Personally I don’t see how this is even a privileged question but consumer protection. If I rent an apartment with an air conditioner, yes I expect it to work.
EU generally has better consumer protection than US: would they not apply here?
Tennessee is hot and humid.
Temperatures over 104f (40c) were common before climate change.
104 is the UK record from 2022. 113 for Tennessee, a record set during the great depression.
This is above the wet bulb level and AC isn’t a privilege because without it, people will die.
I took a measure from a friend’s house in east Tennessee the other day. 40-some percent humidity (really good!), but 88F in the shade, 93F in direct sun, and 116F when standing over blacktop.
2500 people die because of heat… Sure it sucks but that’s like almost nothing
This was seriously your response was to back track and say, well actually, cold is more dangerous anyway?
You don’t need to reply. You proved to me already that you’re not acring in good faith.
2500 is still a tragedy, especially when a good portion of those deaths were preventable
Who knows, maybe next time that’ll be you in that statistic. Not that it’ll be a big loss for society
Houses are required to have heating so why shouldn’t we just change it to include cooling as well? Or maybe in your mind we should go the other way and stop requiring heating so we can all suffer in the winter too?
Btw plenty of people in Europe do have AC, it’s just that they usually tend to be portable units that can only cool one room at a time.
Part of “solving” climate change is being able to adapt or migrate to mitigate it. The planet doesn’t care what the climate is doing, it’s just the living that do so adapting to life in a changed climate is certainly part of a solution
I’m not a Calvinist, you’re not going to be able to convince me that giving myself heat exhaustion will fix climate change. Come after my AC in the 40+ C heat after private jets have been outlawed.
In the mean time instead of dying from heat exhaustion do an internet search for DIY AIR CONDITIONING and at least see what your options are. Good luck. Climate change is a thing by the way.
I do not know why you are getting downvoted. The state is in the wrong here, but its a redstate so you cannot expect change on their part. making your own air conditioner is the only option.
We could just start building houses so they don’t need them like they do in Hawaii. The well designed houses are designed in a way that allows maximum airflow when the windows are open because the price of running an ac there is astronomical.
Downvoted as irrelevant to the topic of apartment rentals, but it’s a great separate topic with several appealing approaches that could make a big difference
Downvoted for announcing why you downvoted the comment instead of just doing it.
(I took the liberty of downvoting my own comment as well so as not to be hypocritical.)
We could just…?
Maybe we could just limit the temps in other hot areas to the same as Hawaii which gets around 85° and rarely goes over 90°?
How about other parts or the US where temps regularly exceed 100° or even 110°? Those airflow designs would do little more than pipe summer heat through their homes.
You can design homes in hot areas to do well, but it’s not an airflow issue. You can do earth berms, thicker walls, much better insulation, and design windows and eaves to prevent the high summer sun from coming in windows to heat the interior. Unfortunately a lot of these kinds of efficient building styles are seen as crunchy-granola and don’t lend themselves to mass produced, cheap material, suburban tract homes and McMansions. The problem is crappy construction and our insistence on the prevalent suburban style.
Can’t. Zoning board says it’s not in neighborhood character.
There’s a lot more regular breeze in Hawaii
Ya, you got me there. You can also build them like termites in Africa do with their hives. They build them in a way to vent heat, and so they catch the minimum amount of light and heat.
There’s also windcatchers, the “ancient air conditioners” of Iran.
And finally, there’s air conditioning
If you’ve ever been to the deep south usa like Tennessee you would know that’s not viable. Temps hit 100 F easily most summers. Humidity is often very high in combination with the scorching heat.
Fortunately it is definitely NOT the norm for homes to be built and/or rented that do not have AC. I’ve rented numerous cheap homes and apartments in the South, every one had AC. My cheapest rental home was $300/mo and it had all utilities (and central HVAC) working except Internet.
There ARE designs that work. Just not found in the USA. Designs from 2000 years ago throughout the hot and humid southeast Asia that work fine.
If you’ve ever been to India for example, you’d know. The USA does not have a monopoly on humidity and isn’t close to the high for temperatures.
A yes, Hawaii, where it gets to a scalding 85F on the hottest of days
But it is done in SE asia where it can reach 40C at even greater humidity… Why not Tennessee?
Because it also gets down to 0C in Tennessee in the winter and houses need to be able to handle that, too
I’ve been to a house with extremely thick brick walls, it’s almost never an uncomfortable temperature.
My dad built two earth-sheltered, passive-solar houses that were always comfortable, required no cooling, and cost about $100 a month to heat over the winter. It’s absolutely do-able but you won’t get a house that looks like a “normal” house so people won’t be interested in buying them.
I’ve still got the plans and if I had my druthers I’d build a whole mess of them all over so people can see that sometimes weird is much better.
My childhood friend had a farmhouse that had a back door facing west (I believe that was the direction), and when you opened the door and a specific set of windows, the whole house turned into a wind tunnel. It was pretty cool. I remember his dad saying they’d design the houses that way on purpose.
Right to Fry
Why dont you build houses with insulation? Other countries handle it well without ACs
in vietnam its not about insulation it’s about having air flow through the house
Blowing hot air around is called “convection baking” in the US
That’s how Japan historically handled heat as well. To be fair, though, those designs help a lot but still leave a house miserably hot.
Insulation can only do so much. It’s sufficient in some countries and areas of the US, but in others it’s just way too fucking hot. When it gets to 100+ degrees F during the day for multiple days in a row, insulation isn’t going to keep your house cold for long.
