Stodger Rone
i’m pretty sure that historians will look back on this and agree that a wholesale slaughter of conservatives would have been the best course of action.
I guess I gotta appreciate that these people are so incompetent.
Same, but it’s also troubling because it suggests how easy all this underhanded shit must be for the bad actors with half a brain that know how to shut the fuck up and quietly enjoy their ill-gotten gains.
Stone: The lights are on, but no one’s home.
How would he know? Trump isn’t supposed to talk with felons.
That’s only if he gets away with probation. Due to him talking with felons all day every day and the fact that he’s publicly shown ALL of the contempt (in both the colloquial and legal sense of the word) of the court and continues to do so, that’s unlikely in spite of the kid gloves he’s being treated with.
My guess is he gets community service and I hope it involves picking up thrash while wearing an jumpsuit that matches his skin.
I hate to burst your bubble, but Trump’s not going to be picking up trash. He will either get house arrest, or community service. Community service will likely consist of recording public service announcements. This is how celebrities are typically treated.
His security is actually a valid concern for the court, which must be considered. It’s impossible to guarantee his security while picking up trash on the side of the highway - since anyone could stop and shoot. Likewise, it is impossible to guarantee his security in prison without solitary confinement.
Of course, it is possible that one day he may get to run his own prison like Pablo Escobar, but I think house arrest is more likely. He’ll love it. Sitting on his ass in Mar a Lago, doing virtual campaign events, watching the news and shitposting all day.
I can’t wait for Fox News. “PRESIDENT TRUMP is picking up trash! He has to bend down and PICK UP TRASH! He is being treated more unfairly than ANY AMERICAN has EVER BEEN TREATED in the HISTORY OF THIS COUNTRY!”
Get those mirrors out of his living spaces.
I get fundraising texts occasionally. I don’t know why. But the one that came on the heels of the conviction had a section of fine print declaring what the money was for. It included a “recount challenge fund”. This is in the open.
Well, given how broke the Republican Party is they’re probably still paying off the lawyers from their failed challenges from 2020. But they’re also planning on doing it again.
I’m not going to advocate violence for this guy, but can we bring back the pillory or something? Him and Steve Bannon both.
I wouldn’t call locking them in a kneeled position while people throw rotten food at them “violent,” necessarily.
But I’d love to see it happen anyway.
Once they are already in the position it wouldn’t be too hard to move them to the guillotine.
Unfortunately, Roger Stone would probably get off on it.
Why aren’t these guys in jail? Seriously. I mean, I know the theory of the rule of law and all, but even our widely-acclaimed greatest president suspended habeas corpus when insurgent secotionists tried to overthrow the Union.
Roger Stone’s been to jail a number of times. He really doesn’t care because he knows he’ll get pardoned. Also he’s basically a mafia don, so I imagine he gets a lot of respect in prison from republicans.
In what capacity does he resemble the mafia? He’s a snake. These guys want to desperately be associated with the mafia but they’re just con men. The Mafia were intelligent criminals.
Everyone needs to remember this guy shaking hands with world leaders during his years in office. In every single picture he is smiling like a pig in shit. It is only after the indictment photo he is attempting to rebrand himself as some sort of tough guy criminal instead of a slimy, smug con artist.
Because Trump pardoned him.
https://www.npr.org/2020/12/23/949820820/trump-pardons-roger-stone-paul-manafort-and-charles-kushner
As in my other reply, the Constitution allows the suspension of habeas corpus in cases of rebellion or threats to public safety, and without that writ, charges and sentences are irrelevant.
The Supreme Court has held that the Constitution contains a right to habeas corpus in Boumedine v. Bush. The Lincoln thing was never fully litigated and was probably unconstitutional.
The Constitution doesn’t empower the court to interpret the constitution. If the executive chose to ignore the court it would be perfectly legal.
Well that’s an even older decision:
Marbury v. Madison, 5 U.S. (1 Cranch) 137 (1803), was a landmark decision of the U.S. Supreme Court that established the principle of judicial review, meaning that American courts have the power to strike down laws and statutes they find to violate the Constitution of the United States. Decided in 1803, Marbury is regarded as the single most important decision in American constitutional law.
He was going to face a trial and likely prison, but trump pardoned him and the rest.
Throughout human history, laws have never stopped conservatism. Jails have never stopped conservatism. Pacifism has never stopped conservatism. Only force has ever stopped conservatism. Only force.
Careful or you’ll get called a tankie
Tankies are literal authoritarians. People say they’re “authoritarian communists,” which ignores they’re mostly Maoists or Stalinists, both of whom were closer to fascism than the left. It sort of ignores the basic premise of communism or even socialism to have a single authoritarian ruler. Kind of like how the Nazis called themselves socialists. I guess they were a workers’ party to start, but I don’t think you can reasonably conflate their ideology with the tenets of socialism.
What’s Stalinism 🤔
I was being pedantic. There is no such thing as Stalinism, that article is a joke. Stalin was just a Marxist Leninist.
That’s certainly a take
No, you don’t understand. The problem is that those people haven’t had enough time to bring upon real communism. Real communism hasn’t been reached yet. They want to let the Maos and Stalins of the world have enough time to reach communism. Things will surely be different with the next guy.
Trump is just Stalin and mai with less power.
There is no difference between authoritarianism at either end of the spectrum.
The issue with authoritarianism isn’t “communism or fascism” it’s a symptom of shitty PEOPLE NOT TYPE OF GOVERNMENT.
STalin wasn’t a shithead BECAUSE he was commumist, but in spite of it.
The Nazis only used the label socialists to deceive the working class. They said so plenty of times when meeting with the industrialists whose bidding they were doing. They never were a workers party and they knew that it was only in name to be more palatable. This deception now has been replaced with “owning the libs” and whatever the local version of neoliberal, conservative or fascist ideology you have around the world.
Tankies these days are conservatives wrapped in an authoritarian shell. Instead of just being supportive of their own authoritarian government they try to destabilize other governments for their gain.
That’s not what being a tankie is lol
People get called that when they’re pretending to be far left while urging everyone to take the exact actions the Repubs want them to take.
Is this code for “people who aren’t voting for Joe Biden”?
that would be people who are essentially voting for trump, so yeah, why not.
It’s code for “antifascist” “leftists” who are urging people to do the exact same things that the Republican party wants them to do.
urging people to do the exact same things
Specifically, which things?
If you’re upset about being called a tankie, you could cross-reference what you are urging people to do with what the Republican party wants people to do. And then stop that.
In general I would recommend being antifascist in a way that isn’t the exact same actions as overt fascism with the only difference being the rhetoric justifying the actions.
Tankie is the pro-authoritarian left. The Stalinists essentially. The ones who think it’s appropriate to send in the tanks to quell a socialist or communist uprising because it has a tint of democracy in it, which may cause their strong leader to lose dictatorial power.
Funny thing is, in all my life I’ve never met anyone on the left that was pro authoritarian. Seems like a made up faux news boogeyman
It depends on whether you consider PRC and Stalin “left.” There are plenty of their supporters out on the internet.
I suspect that this is extremely dry humor, but for others that read this, Trump pardoned both Bannon and Stone
it’s still unfathomable that trump was “allowed” (I know it was “legal”, don’t point that out) to pardon his literal partners-in-crime. He basically has already self-pardoned himself by proxy by allowing these traitors to walk free.
The only restrictions on presidential pardons are on convicted impeachment and the requirement that it must be a federal crime. Yes, Trump can even pardon himself from the federal documents, insurrection, and election fraud cases if he takes office again.
https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artII-S2-C1-3-1/ALDE_00013316/
We should never have allowed a pardon before a conviction. What Ford did for Nixon created all kinds of paradoxes.
Carter did it with draft dodgers too, but I agree.
Ford pardoned Nixon.
Bush Jr pardoned Scooter Libby.
Governor Abbott pardoned a pedophile for shooting a black girl’s white boyfriend
Why is this even remotely surprising?
the difference being that ford wasn’t involved in Nixon’s taping. etc. etc.
this is direct involvement, which makes it stink more.
We messed up when we allowed Ford’s pardon of Nixon before he was convicted. We should only allow pardons after the person was convicted. That created all kinds of paradoxes:
- creating a blanket pardon “from any crime that we don’t know yet about”
- possible pocket pardon, where a president could pardon themselves secretly
- hiring thugs on president benefit and giving pardon right before leaving office. They know they can do anything and will receive a blanket pardon. If president had to wait for conviction then there was no guarantee he would be there to pardon them. So it would make whole escapade more risky
- total immunity which trump is arguing about would be even less likely if there was no blanket and pocket pardon and he had to wait until being convicted before being able to be pardoned
I have to say, “you’ve been unpardoned” would be a great line.
I’m not sure if I’m joking. In any case, the writ of habeas corpus is the legal tool that a court can theoretically use to compel the appearance of a prisoner before it. It is the legal doctrine that underlies the right to trial, and I say “theoretically” because courts rarely need to issue one; it’s just standard procedure to bring people to court to face charges.
By suspending it, Abraham Lincoln could detain those people he deemed dangerous seditionists indefinitely, because the detainees would have to go to court to challenge their detention, and there was no way to get to court. The effect of suspending it again is that it wouldn’t matter that Baboon (autocorrect and I’m leaving it) and Stone were pardoned, or that there were even criminal charges.
Lincoln did it, George W. Bush did it. Barack Obama did it. The Constitution contains a clause which allows it to be suspended due to rebellion or threats to public safety. It’s a dangerous thing to allow a president to do, but the MAGA danger might be greater.
In other words the US is neither a state of law nor is it a democracy as separation of power can be overturned whenever the president feels like it.
Emergency powers are in most constitutions because people generally understand that during war things have to operate a little differently. You can’t allow the enemy, who is attacking you physically, to go and publish propaganda that attacks you rhetorically and turns the populace’s loyalty towards the other side. The problem we have now is the constant use of emergency powers. That needs to be shut down. Emergency powers should be limited to a certain timeframe, and reviewed by congress after that. Not these multi decade states of emergency.
Worth noting that, historically speaking, if a state official wanted to punish someone without going through the court system he could always just turn the prisoner over to a lynch mob.
So while suspending habeaus corpus is a danger to democracy, it is not a singular method by which mayors, governors, or Presidents have disposed of political opponents.
I don’t know if anyone else has pointed this out, in this photo especially, Roger Stone looks like a caricature of Mr. Burns from The Simpsons.
Roger Stone looks like a caricature of Mr. Burns from The Simpsons.
Who is himself a caricature of an old and evil rich man. If the shoe fits…
Btw, remember when he showed up to the inauguration looking like a literal Batman villain?
IIRC, Mr. Burns was meant to be a caricature of specifically Rupert Murdoch.
wow, posh spice let herself go
I say if Ebeneezer Scrooge were a real person and alive today, that is exactly what he would look like.
Of course the orange turd is going to challenge it, this shouldn’t surprise anyone. He wasn’t even given a slap on the wrist for inciting a mob to try to overthrow the government. Why wouldn’t he try again?
Stone is just a useful idiot which also shouldn’t surprise anyone.
Also caught on tape: “Pardon me.”
I am shocked… SHOCKED I tell you!
The “person” doesn’t look human at all…
haunted vent dummy
Duh.
It’s astounding to me that a second January sixth isn’t at the top of people’s minds this go round.
Not because it’ll be successful (although there’s always a chance) but because we already have elected officials who believe that trump won the 2020 election and there will only be more this time around.
What’s the long term effect of legitimizing disbelief in a functioning democracy? America never was one, but what does it mean when there’s double or triple digit numbers of elected officials who publicly say so?
The usual explanation for distrust in government has nothing to do with people recognizing reality and changing their views based on it but instead blames that change on lack of bread and circuses, no basics of life and no distraction from reality.
We certainly don’t have the basics of life, but the distraction machine is running like a champ slaps hood you could fit like seven more dissociative technologies in this sucker!
What combination of lack of basic necessities and distractions are driving people’s belief (true or false!) that the election was stolen and that our fake democracy is actually fake?
The only good news is that if they try to storm the Capitol again, they’re not going to have Trump and his “acting” Secretary of Defense giving them cover this time.
Those troops are going to be loaded for bear.
that’s not good news though.
seeing americans get blasted by either the national guard or capitol police isn’t gonna build trust in the fake american democracy.
seeing that one woman get shot in a situation where she presented no threat at all was bad enough.
She presented a threat and I don’t know what mental gymnastics you have used to argue that she didn’t.
You don’t fucking accidentally invade the capital building. No one has ever called their spouse and said “hey honey I was trying to buy milk at 7-11 and for some reason I am in the Speaker of the House’s office. She seems mad at me.”
hey i’m just gonna copy and paste this into my reply to everyone else who got in after the first person: i’m not arguing about the state’s justification of its actions i’m asking what happens to americans perception of our government when we see whats her name get shot x100 during the next january 6. if you wanna talk about that i’ll reply but if not i won’t.
This is the kind of intellectual laziness i expect from maga chuds 🥂
If you’re referring to the woman who was killed during the January 6th Insurrection, she was a traitor. She was an Air Force veteran who took an oath upon enlistment that she would faithfully defend the Constitution of the United States from all enemies, foreign and domestic.
And then when her guy didn’t win, she decided she would forget her oath and try to overthrow the very Constitution she swore to protect. Honestly, fuck her, I don’t wish she had died, but she’s not a martyr, nor should she be.
Your reasoning is why Democrats never fucking do anything: it’s all about the what-ifs. Republicans don’t give a fuck about the what-ifs and they’ve accomplished countless numbers of their goals over the years.
So enough: if people want to try Insurrection 2.0: Electric Boogaloo, fucking mow them down like they so badly want to do anyone who isn’t a fucking white, cis, heterosexual male who dry humps their Bible every fucking night thinking that makes them a good Christian.
Your logic and your comment are asinine, and you’re completely oblivious to the other side of your coin: We should just do nothing because stopping fucking traitors from overthrowing their government because their dipshit lost may hurt the perception the American people have of their government. Yep, better just let fascism happen then because people may look at the government, the same one that drone strikes women and children in the Middle East, what, may be too fucking tough on terrorists and insurrections?
Please.
She was an Air Force veteran who took an oath upon enlistment that she would faithfully defend the Constitution of the United States from all enemies, foreign and domestic.
I’m sure from her thoroughly deluded, brain-rotted perspective that’s exactly what she was doing - protecting the Constitution from a domestic enemy seeking to steal the election.
Practically no one sees themselves as the villain of their own story.
Ok your worry about that
She shouldn’t have been forcefully attempting to enter a restricted area while having guns actively pointed at her while being told to stop, then.
the state justifies its actions. i’m not asking if the justifications are accurate or not, but what the outcomes of those actions are with regards to peoples trust and perception of the government.
regardless of weather many people were willing to approve of the state’s justification, what will happen to our trust in our government when january 6 part 2 participants are getting hosed down with m855a1 this time?
Personally, I feel that preventing fascist traitor scum from installing a dictator and subjugating the democracy would give me more trust in my government. The state would not have to justify that action to me, that is perfectly just already.
I can think of few things that would restore and bolster my faith in government more than watching the arms of the state rapidly, effectively, and effortlessly put down an active, armed rebellion against the democratically elected institutions of the nation.
Anyone who marches on the Capitol to unseat the legitimate government of the United States should be met with lethal force, preferably while on camera being broadcast live.
And that includes anyone who marches on the Capitol to unseat a legitimate Republican government.
Flowing from the rule of law is the peaceful transfer of power, and flowing from that is the presence of loyal opposition.
A government that defends the people’s ability to select it with the means entrusted to it is doing exactly what it should. The bitch my state sends to the Senate is an utter slimeball whom I despise with the very core of my being. But the people of my state in their wisdom sent her to DC, so anybody who charges that building with designs on her life should immediately eat a red, white, and blue bullet. If the government fails to defend that bitch, then it has failed me, and my faith in it will have been tarnished.
That’s my perception of the government in such an event. I certainly don’t speak for everyone.
Okay so if this becomes a pattern how do we break the cycle of having to dome protesters every election cycle? Historically it hasn’t been good for the state to have constant uprisings no matter if you support their cause or not.
You’d have to dismantle the right wing propaganda network that’s being coopted by hostile powers to damage trust in our government and sow discontent amongst the populace.
But unfortunately, the right would rightly see this as an attack on them, because their media ecosystem is the generator of this shit…
You may have just picked a bad example, because I think the state’s stance doesn’t really factor into many people’s opinions on this particular shooting.
Idk, my experience talking to people who claimed to have voted democrat showed otherwise. I had a lot of older people saying they didn’t have to shoot her. Someone who lives a couple of roads over even said the “just shoot her in the leg” line.
I guess for people who are old enough to remember like maybe Kent state forwards there’s a real bad association with cops or national guard shooting anyone protesting, demonstrating or rioting or whatever and I think if it goes off bigger this time around that’s a bigger problem.
what will happen to our trust in our government when january 6 part 2 participants are getting hosed down with m855a1 this time?
Me personally? Trust immediately restored. Jan 6 showed how fragile our system really is with the right people pulling the right levers. It was public knowledge that something big was being organized, yet security was not increased and the national guard was not called in (though I wouldn’t be surprised if they were on standby as it was shortly after George floyd protests/riots). Rioters accessed offices of officials and came VERY close to the senators themselves. Had they not reconvened and certified the election later that night, we would’ve had a constitutional crisis which was one possible goal of the whole thing.
Bottom line, I don’t give a fuck how a bunch of actual seditionists that worship trump as a god emperor feel. You can’t just storm the goddamn capitol of the country. If preventing that requires mowing down seditionists, that’s not the government’s fault and not my concern.
Shut up.
She was carrying a backpack big enough to hold a bomb, climbing through a hole in a door that was barricaded, being warned by armed guards not to, and was backed by thousands of angry rioters ready to follow her in.
I’m pretty sure she represented a threat.
If your house were surrounded by people yelling and waving bats and batons and pipes and you barricaded your door against them entering, would you feel threatened by someone who broke your window and started climbing in?
hey i’m just gonna copy and paste this into my reply to everyone else who got in after the first person: i’m not arguing about the state’s justification of its actions i’m asking what happens to americans perception of our government when we see whats her name get shot x100 during the next january 6. if you wanna talk about that i’ll reply but if not i won’t.
I think most Americans didn’t have any perception change of their government when they saw that chick get shot. If anything they were shocked by what levels conservative civilians were ready to go to for their completely unfounded beliefs.
If anything they were shocked by what levels conservative civilians were ready to go to for their completely unfounded beliefs.
And just how far the government was willing to let them go before they took off the kid gloves and began to consider treating them even somewhat like the George Floyd protestors were treated.
It was rather eye opening to see the dichotomy between law enforcement response between protests that started non violently protesting in the street vs an angry mob marching on Congress while they actively tried to do a peaceful transfer of power.
I agree with you that most Americans were shocked in general or didn’t care but I think there was a significant amount of people whose perceptions were maybe changed.
Do you think the scale would change things? If this becomes a pattern, what’s the way out?
Why should we worry ourselves with the perceptions of idiots? They’re idiots. Fuck what they think.
There’s a lot of people in the replies saying something along these lines but none as succinctly put as you.
What’s the right way for the state to deal with “idiots” when it doesn’t care what they think? Certainly after this next January 6 the state can’t just kill them, what’s the response from the state you’d like to see?
if you wanna talk about that i’ll reply but if not i won’t.
You shouldn’t have brought it up if you weren’t prepared to discuss it.
No one is asking you to debate this first part:
seeing that one woman get shot in a situation
We all know a woman got shot by the government and was justified by the government.
However, YOU made this statement:
where she presented no threat at all
And you are 100% nothing more than a troll IF you claim it’s not reasonable to have to justify such a position, YOUR position, as stated by you.
Okay, I’ll defend what I said so that it’s clear that I brought it up not to troll or engage in bad faith but as an example of the effects of state violence on public trust.
Regardless of weather or not you believe the states defense of its agents actions, you can’t deny that the woman who was shot was unarmed (I think I saw some news articles trying to call her armed because she had a pocketknife, but come on!) and that there were alternatives to deadly force available. I saw them discussed online and heard even my very vote blue no matter who style lib neighbors say them when we talked about the news.
Some of the stuff I remember hearing people say was “push her back through”, “push her back through with a stick” “let her come through and arrest her” “beat people trying to come through with a stick” and “shoot into the air/ground to disperse them”.
I’m not bringing those things up to then give you the opportunity to ask me to defend them, but to provide examples of normal everyday people’s responses to seeing the states agents kill someone who looked like them or someone they knew and only became more sympathetic as her background was reported on and pictures of her from before January 6 surfaced.
I also know that she was brought up in the news as a victim of state violence and her name was used as a kind of dogwhistle for stop the steal type right wingers and even normal republican types for little while.
I don’t remember it because I don’t run in those circles but it had a cadence like “Sharon bobbit” or something.
The effect of that one death was very polarizing and did little to build broader trust in government except for with people who took the controversial “I don’t like those people/they’re criminals so good riddance” view.
So that’s why I brought it up and specifically said that she posed no threat. Not because I wanted to defend the people who did January 6 or the ones who use her name as a shibboleth but because it’s a good example of state violence suppressing January 6 prompting a negative response.
I appreciate that you expounded on your overall point, but I don’t think you defended what I quoted at all, and that’s the only bit I think you are really on the hook to defend here.
where she presented no threat at all
I won’t list all the examples others already gave you of how easy it is to see that from the point of view of anyone on the other side of that specific door at that specific time, she was indeed a threat. That’s not “accepting the government’s justification” that’s using my own eyeballs and not pretending I don’t understand the context of what was happening. Anyone claiming she’s not a threat at that moment is willfully ignoring every other detail of the situation.
American insurgents. Traitors. And nobody forces them to storm the Capitol.
she presented no threat at all
Yeah I’m just gonna smash through the only barrier between me and the senators and hope security realizes I just want an autograph and am not trying to hurt any government officials. Genius plan. That said, she DID present a threat by her actions, and a larger potential threat as several rioters were armed. They did their job when they shot her and if anything, showed incredible restraint by waiting until she was literally climbing into the room.
hey i’m just gonna copy and paste this into my reply to everyone else who got in after the first person: i’m not arguing about the state’s justification of its actions i’m asking what happens to americans perception of our government when we see whats her name get shot x100 during the next january 6. if you wanna talk about that i’ll reply but if not i won’t.
On that topic, in my estimation it is going to be a far worse time for everybody if we normalize a violent coup whenever Fox News radicalizes a critical mass of reprogrammable meatbags. After January 6th, even conservatives were briefly able to condemn attempted treason before they found enough room to stand in the shadow of their dear leader. Most Americans did not have a great perception of the state of government, however I’ve never actually met anyone who believes rioters should have been allowed to break through barricades to kill members of congress.
I probably won’t see it because it sounds gruesome to watch a 100 people get mowed down trying to install a dictator.
Lack of critical thinking combined with echo chambers of manufactured propaganda 24/7
I’m a Republican that does their own Research and even though the election hasn’t happened yet I ALREADY KNOW TRUMP LOST UNFAIRLY because of Sleepy Joe Biden being UNFAIR!
This is exactly how I feel so your comment is one hundred percent correct.
What’s the name of your face book research group?
My emotions validate my worldview!
