- cross-posted to:
- politics@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- politics@beehaw.org
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Honest motives
You know what my main problem with Joe Biden is? I’m 37, he’s what? 79? I’ve been a citizen of the United States longer than he has. He’s spent the last three generations in either congress or the white house, and the people who do that don’t live in the same reality as the rest of us. Too many of the laws outright don’t apply to them, either because there are literal exceptions or “we don’t enforce that on them.” Joe Biden doesn’t know the first fucking thing about being an American because he hasn’t ever actually done it.
Joe Biden doesn’t know the first fucking thing about being an American because he hasn’t ever actually done it.
His family struggled a lot when he grew up in a blue collar town, moved so his dad could find steady work, but still were definitely middle class. Then he worked his way through college and law school.
We can say his decades in Congress and the presidency have corrupted him, but the idea that he hasn’t ever actually been “a real American” (the way you are using it) is an outright lie.
You know who hasn’t? The billionaire who was born with a silver spoon in their mouth, schooled with other wealthy people in NYC, then was gifted a huge amount of to start, and then spent their entire career screwing the blue collar worker to line his own pockets.
If Biden has never been a “real American,” then how do we describe Trump’s lack of real Americaness?
lmao his family “suffered” because his father was a fraudster that tried to get rich on scamming the US government during the war. The stories about his blue-collar roots are as real as Kim Jong Un inventing pizza.
Holy shit the propaganda is real.
And I’m going to listen to your baseless accusation and ignore Bernie Sander’s crystal clarity? lmfao.
Bernie Sanders: Trump is the most corrupt president in our lifetimes
“You think Hitler’s bad, what do you call Satan?!?! Checkmate!”
Yes, that was clearly my argument. Good reading comprehension there and not some mindless kneejerk “muh both sides” response.
You know what my main problem with Joe Biden is?
He’s not Putin’s choice? He gave billionaires a tax increase instead of tax cut?
Joe Biden doesn’t know the first fucking thing about being an American because he hasn’t ever actually done it.
You mean despite being the only US Senator who rode the bus to work every day?
Joe Biden knows way more about being an American than you seem to.
[Remarks by President Biden on Democracy and Freedom | Normandy, France]
Too many of the laws outright don’t apply to them
Which specific law does not apply to Joe Biden? You simply made that up. His son was just found guilty on a charge that almost no other person in America would even be charged with.
there hasn’t been an election where it wasn’t choosing the least bad person.
Obama’s first go around felt pretty legit.
I was genuinely excited for Obama. I strongly supported him during the primary, was thrilled he won, and was very hopeful when he was elected.
Quickly disappointed not long after, but at least when he was first being elected it was definitely a “I really like this candidate and am hopeful they’ll live up to their promises.”
I think as candidates Clinton, W. Bush, Gore, Obama, McCain had sincere support overshadowing the need to stop some particular bad person instead. As misguided as I think it is, Trump voters also are all about Trump less than stopping Biden. I can’t personally remember a race where “the other side must be stopped” as pretty much the sole consideration among the voters until the Trump era.
Yes, third party candidates are dismissed in a self fulfilling prophecy, but also that reality drives most reasonable would-be third party candidates to one of the viable parties, generally leaving third party candidates that wouldn’t be that popular anyway.
I can’t personally remember a race where “the other side must be stopped” as pretty much the sole consideration among the voters until the Trump era.
The Kerry '04 campaign might as well have been “Anyone But Bush”, and it went down in flames as a result. Every time Kerry was pressed on any kind of progressive-ish sounding issue, he ran to the right for fear of spooking the moderate centrist voter. Every time Bush was pressed on his conservative bona fides, he just pointed to 9/11 and said “I kept us safe” and the news media ate that shit up.
In the end, you had the Strong MAGA Security candidate in Bush and the flaky swish liberal candidate in Kerry. Kerry lost by 3M votes and 35 ECs, dwarfing the Bush/Gore defeat. Then he slunk back to the Senate and triangulated votes with John McCain for the next eight years.
I think as candidates Clinton, W. Bush, Gore, Obama, McCain had sincere support
Joe Biden was better and more progressive than literally every one of those guys. It’s not Biden’s fault that you haven’t been paying much attention.
I can’t personally remember a race where “the other side must be stopped” as pretty much the sole consideration among the voters until the Trump era.
I can’t personally remember a president who has achieved more progress than Joe Biden, and I can remember every president starting with Nixon.
Note I didn’t claim the were progressive or that Biden did nothing, I’m saying voter sentiment is basically “not trump” rather than “for Biden”. I’ll accept that Kerry was in a similar position of being the “not W” candidate, but other than that I can’t think of a candidate whose popular support was so much more about “the other guy” than the candidate themselves.
WTF? Dude it is not Bidens fault that Convicted Felon and Sex Offender Treason Trump has been ranked as the worst president in history by historians. That means there are lots of “Biden Republicans”. But Dems would be voting for Biden over any Republicrat.
As long as you don’t see Palestinians/Arabs as people, I agree.
One day the USA will get a president that has more to offer than not being his opponent.
And that day is upon you now.
What if Trump loses and runs in 2028?
If Trump gets a sound thrashing, losing the Republicans seats in the process, the rats will flee the sinking ship.
No they won’t, their lesser evil bullshit will keep creating a progressively larger evil. So there will always be a boogeyman to sell.
Not always. Second worst only has to lose once.
Like increasing the minimum tax on corporations from 0% to 15% while needing 2 Dem senators who later left the party for being too leftwing?
At this point, I would say nearly all of them are, but then again, at this point- that’s all the reason one needs.
This is a DIRE situation we are in. It needs to be taken seriously.
This is a DIRE situation we are in. It needs to be taken seriously.
in every single election cycle, it’s always been that red maga falls in line while blue maga shames everyone into voting for a guy that is 99% same as the red maga guy, but, of course, that naturally doesn’t work; if you look at people’s behavior now, compared to before, the situation appears the same because everyone’s doing the same thing.
if the situation were truly dire; then people would behave accordingly; but they’re not.
Biden said he’s going to be a dictator for 99% of day one?
ROFL.
.ml.
if the situation were truly dire; then people would behave accordingly; but they’re not.
That’s a completely false assumption.
[How they made Germany great again: The Nazi social media campaign of 1932]
As far as I’m concerned we only have one legitimate party at the moment and that’s the one I’m going to vote for.
But, even though Biden isn’t nearly as progressive as I’d like, he still beats the brakes off of any other democratic president we’ve had so I wouldn’t say he’s doing a bad job per se.
If he were running against a “rational” Republican I’d still vote for him, so I wouldn’t say I’m motivated solely by my hatred for Trump.Biden, DNC, establishment Democrats and Boomer Democrat voters: Okay guys we need to figure out who to elevate in the 2028 Republican primaries who’s just as vile as Trump so those uppity leftists will have to keep voting for our pro-corporate asses.
Learn about the electoral college. We’re literally forced into this 2 party choice.
Yes which Boomer Democrats exploit in the primaries.
So why can’t leftists organize and overpower the boomer dems in the primary?
Because decades of being marginalized by Boomers have left generations after them trained to think their participation has no effect. Which is precisely the intention. You’re happy it works right up until the point where we don’t vote for your geriatric genocide supporting procorporate trash of a human being in the general election.
Yeah, I’m quite upset you would abstain and let a fascist walk in, sure. That is fair.
But you’re deliberately avoiding the question. If leftists are so numerous and their views so popular, WHY CAN THEY NOT OVERPOWER THE BOOMER DEMS?
Face it- you do the same shit everyone else does. You cry and whine because you didn’t get your way and you stop all effort. You didn’t get every damn thing you wanted (besides student loans forgiven, medicare insulin capped, biggest climate bill ever, a president walking in a picket line, etc.) so it’s time to give up? It’s time to abstain because of genocide knowing the other actual choice would be FAR WORSE for Palestine (let alone everything else)? But hey, at least go go gadget would get to be all haughty and on their high horse saying “my conscience is clear” while everything gets worse.
Maybe be in it for the long haul and be the change you want to see. Again- if leftists are so numerous they should have no problem pulling AOCs all over the place and changing the landscape dramatically. The right can do it so why can’t the left?
Again, I’m not upset you have morals and want to end the genocide in Palestine, etc. I do too. I want better healthcare (either nationalized, single payer, some universal with public/private a la Germany, etc.), I want better social safety nets, guaranteed parental leave, etc. I think a lot do.
I’m upset that people like you bitch and moan all the goddamn time and act as if you’re so marginalized and so victimized that you not only abstain yourself but convince others to do the same, or don’t vote in primaries, or don’t volunteer, etc.
You need to face up to the facts- either leftist/progressive voters are NOT as numerous as you all think and you get represented precisely how much you should be given how big the tent has to be in a FPTP system or leftist/progressive voters are numerous and are simply extremely apathetic where they can’t be bothered to turn out for someone that isn’t basically their knight in shining armor. In which case, again, they get represented EXACTLY how much they should because they are lazy and flakey and not worth anyone’s time courting.
I don’t want to beat people down but I’m tired of people acting as if there is a huge groundswell of support. Study after study and election after election show that the issue is exactly as I described in the previous paragraph. Either show up and be counted or continue to whine when things don’t go your way.
Maybe be in it for the long haul and be the change you want to see. Again- if leftists are so numerous they should have no problem pulling AOCs all over the place and changing the landscape dramatically. The right can do it so why can’t the left?
Because America isn’t a progressive country, progressive ideas are not popular, and outside of the Internet most Americans are perfectly happy with the heinous and stupid bullshit their government does as long as the news is full of SLAMS and DEMOLISHING opponents
And I say that as a progressive who’s shown up and been counted in every election for the last 24 years.
Make up your mind. If you didn’t need us to win the 2020 general election you don’t need us in 2024.
besides student loans forgiven
Student loan forgiveness was rejected by the supreme court. All the loan forgiveness you’re seeing is the result of the PSLF program signed by G.W. Bush in 2007. Are you trying to give Biden credit for something Bush did?
medicare insulin capped
Boomers got what they wanted. Yay.
biggest climate bill ever
Sure. This isn’t nothing. However you should compare what’s in the IRA compared to what was in the BBB. The BBB is what Biden and Bernie worked on together. The BBB did not pass. This was a very disappointing outcome.
a president walking in a picket line
Fucking bread crumbs. Biden blocked the rail strike. The rail workers were fighting for 15 sick days. Some have 7. Most have less than that. Some sound byte by an IBEW administrative worker doesn’t change that. Our votes are worth more than that.
You don’t get to define what is “everything we wanted”. Biden does not deserve our votes. Our votes are worth more than what he’s done. If you don’t like it find someone else to vote for your procorporate trash candidate.
If leftists are so numerous and their views so popular
they never made such a claim. in fact, all the evidence is that dems don’t care if leftists vote at all.
Thank you for saying this.
Team Red put in serious effort to drag this country hard right. They can taste victory in the air and have YUGE plans for remaking this country into the Authoritarian Right-Wing Dictatorship they’ve been craving since Bush’s years. Fuck 50 years of Republican rule. They want a Permanent Republican Majority (for at LEAST 20 years), and they’ll tear down Democracy (because that has to have something to do with Democrats, am I right) to get it.
If the Right functioned like the Left did, the Republicans would be locked out of the political system at the first hint of adversity. But they didn’t, because the Right-Wing Shitheads’ answer to RINOs was to organise and work to push them out of office in favour of hard-right ideologues. Vote for the Conservative in the Primary and the Republican in the General. That’s their motto.
Right-Wing Shitheads win when people like go_go_gadget convince our voters they should sit home because they didn’t get exactly what they want. It’s all hands on deck to stop a naked Fascist takeover of the country, and we need to be calling the idiots on our side out whenever they push these memes that the best answer to feckless politicians on our side is to take your ball and go home.
To all of you saying stay home or vote third party, this is exactly how the country keeps shifting Right.
Because decades of being marginalized by Boomers have left generations after them trained to think their participation has no effect
That’s on you and nobody else. It’s incredibly stupid for people to think your participation has no effect. Dems typically beg people to participate in every primary and election and the GOP typically hopes few people participate.
What a pathetic deflection away from the fact that Democrat boomers are still boomers and vote like the selfish pieces of shit they are.
Learn about the electoral college. We’re literally forced into this 2 party choice.
And nobody alive today created this. We all inherited it, just like you. It’s just the reality and if you don’t recognize that you are condemning yourself to be a lifetime loser.
Okay guys we need to figure out who to elevate in the 2028 Republican primaries
Not a single Dem has that power nor would have wished a GOP candidate as bad for America as Convicted Felon and Sex Offender Treason Trump.
who’s just as vile as Trump
I’m not expecting anyone as vile as Convicted Felon and Sex Offender Treason Trump although the GOP does have a knack for continually disappointing America with their bad candidates.
will have to keep voting for our pro-corporate asses.
Corporations must be super mad at “pro-corporate” Joe Biden for raising the minimum corporate tax rate from 0% to 15% even though tax rates are the single thing that matter above all else.
so those uppity leftists
The indispensible prerequisite for moving the Overton window to the left is for the GOP to lose elections. And leftist who doesn’t understand that will automatically transform themselves into a perpetual Loser.
Not a single Dem has that power nor would have wished a GOP candidate as bad for America as Convicted Felon and Sex Offender Treason Trump.
Factually false.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/11/hillary-clinton-2016-donald-trump-214428/
Factually true.
Regardless about what some random idiot reporter said 8 years ago, (1) no Dem has any powers to select a GOP nominee and (2) Dems aren’t responsible for how terrible the RNC’s nominees are .
Factually true.
Show me your evidence then.
Just did.
As opposed to last time, when I voted for Biden to stop trump
Or the time before that, when I voted for Clinton to stop trump.
Or the time before that, when I voted for Kerry to stop Bush.
Not me. I’m motivated on making sure myself and all my loved ones get to continue to vote. Stopping Trump and voting for Biden just so happen to line up for that.
Exactly. “Voting for Biden just to stop trump” is a pretty meaningless statement.
I mean, yeah.
Yes. Please do be motivated by stopping Trump!
And especially don’t be demotivated to go voting because you don’t like the alternative.
Water is wet.
The electoral college is the electoral college
I generally like Biden and I’m still more motivated by voting against trump. I’m amazed on a daily basis how many ignorant school shooter wannabes roam around here chanting fantasies without any basis in reality convincing themselves that they aren’t culpable if they don’t accept reality.
Only reason he won the primary in 2020. Idealists don’t do well against fascists but moderates are inoffensive enough to
It’s a dangerous game, as Biden’s not bringing anything to the table on his own. Hillary lost in 2016 with a 10-pt plunge in support, because of the Comey October Surprise. Biden could easily suffer the same fate, if his lackluster supporters get spooked a few weeks before the general election.
Biden’s not bringing anything to the table on his own.
You mean, besides besides being the most progressive president since LBJ?
That’s a low bar. LBJ was racist,
“During his first 20 years in Congress,” Obama said, “he opposed every civil rights bill that came up for a vote, once calling the push for federal legislation a farce and a shame.”
LBJ was the president who got the most important civil right bill passed. Biden was the most progressive president since LBJ and FDR.
The Emancipation Proclamation was kinda important.
Yes it was. Did you not realize that Lincoln came before FDR?
Logical thought is essentially a process of figuring things out step by step. Think of it like putting together a puzzle where each piece must fit perfectly with the others to form a complete picture. It’s a way of thinking that helps connect ideas in a rational, sensible order. It starts with simple truths, builds on them, and leads to a solid conclusion, just like following a set of directions to get to a particular place. source
does repeating this lie help you believe it?
does repeating this lie help you believe it?
LMFAO. I believe that Biden was the most progressive president since LBJ because I have been paying attention to politics since Nixon was in office. I can remember the end of the Vietnam War, and the minute details of every administration since. Which particular president do you think was better than Biden?
I can remember the end of the Vietnam War
how do you not remember biden’s anti-gay votes or his anti-gay, anti-me2, pro-studentloandebt, or pro-isreal advocacy; like most boomers do?
was it because none of that affects you or is it because you’re willfully ignoring the last few decades to make his presidency look better in your eyes?
or is it simply because trump is so bad that the alternative is automatically good enough?
How did you not know that Biden has done way more to nullify student loan debt than every other president?
How did you not know that Biden got a Gaza cease fire passed by the US security council?
biden’s anti-gay votes
The president does not vote against anything. I said Biden is the most progressive PRESIDENT.
How can you not know that Biden has been more progressive on me2 or lgbtq THAN ANY OTHER PRESIDENT?
or is it simply because trump is so bad that the alternative is automatically good enough?
Well we know that Convicted Sec Offender Treason Trump was ranked worst of all presidents by historians. So a house plant would be better than Treason Trump. But doesn’t change the fact that Biden has been the most progressive president in the last 50 years.
he literally use to brag about getting the bill that created our student loan debt problem passed the senate.
also: he’s been in federal politics for over 50 years; but we can only judge him for 3 of them?
ysk that cherry picked 3 years has been hit and miss at best.
Only the best current reason. When frump is out of the picture for good we can focus on other things
You think it will be any better then?
Cant say. Nobody can read the future for good or bad. I just prefer to be optimistic rather than not. All i can say is that the current choices are all there is and, as always, the lesser of two evils is what we have to work with
Also it is no reflection at all on Biden that he happens to be running against the person whom historians have ranked as the worst president in American history. Biden is ranks as 14th best president out of 46.
https://www.axios.com/2024/02/19/presidents-survey-trump-ranks-last-biden-14th
I wish I believed that. There will always be some new threat. There will always be some dire threat keeping us voting for second worst instead of ever expecting better.
Biden is not 2nd worst. Out of the 4-5 candidates running Biden is by far the best.
His pro-genocide cult is fond of saying that there are only two choices when they’re browbeating anyone who is upset with him for any reason.
But no. He’s still second worst. And his recent adoption of Trump’s immigration policies has narrowed the gap.
You support a regressive Libertarian candidate over the most progressive candidate since FDR. Got it.
the most progressive candidate since FDR
by what standard?!
dude literally voted against gay marriage; gays in the military; permanent student loans; advocated against gays in federal service; racial integration; sexual harassment claims; blocked access to non-american social media platform; and blocked americans from affordable electric vehicles.
was it the one law that passed decades after it was no longer an issue and, not only did nothing, but gave bigots legal protection for their bigotry?
I do not. I’m voting for Biden. But as Biden’s pro-genocide cult is so delighted to gloat, a vote for any other option is a vote for Trump. Since all other candidates are functionally Trump, Biden is second worst. And he’s moving to the right on immigration to be more like Trump.
But hey, go ahead and make assumptions based on things you prefer to think instead of what I’ve actually written.
the most progressive candidate since FDR
This is horseshit. No one buys it.
