I wonder what their idea of the outcome is.
Tankie: “I convinced 20 Democratic Party voters to stay at home (and did the same for 0 Republican Party voters). Wait until Democratic politicians see that more voters favored the far right party. Then they’re going to move left and fall on their knees and beg me to forgive them.”
(Cue scene: swastika-adorned tanks rolling past the window)
“Stupid liberals, unwilling to fight the fascists like us true leftists.” (Watches tanks and twiddles thumbs.) (Fetches keyboard.) “Let’s tell everyone online that it’s their own fault and they deserve this.” (Sudden sound of harsh knocking on front door.)
At best, their actions will “only” cause another grid-locked presidency where progressives can’t get their reforms to pass (which will then be used as the reason to abandon the likely last line of non-violent defense against fascists).
DNC and DNC shills expecting free votes because they’re democratically funding a genocide instead of fascistly funding a genocide
You morons in November when Trump inevitably wins due to horrendous voter turnout in November from former Democrat voters and not because the 5 communists in the USA made the difference
It’s like a copy paste of Trump v Clinton and clearly no one learned their lesson from literally 8 years ago.
Not a communist, but I think I will vote for the person who most represents my values and policies this year.
Wow… that’s pretty much a spot-on depiction of them.
Hmmm, today i will attack any attempts to run a better candidate against trump
This election is already full.
I hope progressives are building a candidate for the next election. It takes years
Well then we can still pressure Biden to do the right thing. The election is still 6 months away, not next week. Blind support for Biden will not make anything better.
Never said that. I’m only discussing election day in my comment, that’s pretty obvious
Progressives are excessively difficult to win support from the Dems or Reps due to campaign interests and media spin. The only candidates that recieve enough backing are the ones that pose no danger to the wealthy Capitalists.
Progressives should take that backing as their chief objective, and start building systems to win. That means media and financial backing.
How do you get media and financial backing if you fundamentally go against that which maintains their funding?
I agree that leftists should organize, but more along the lines of the Black Panther Party or other groups actively making a difference first.
The Black Panther Party is your standard for making a difference.
Yeah, that’s about what I expected.
Yes, directly supporting and feeding children, supported gay rights, and promoted leftist theory and community building is good.
Hating on the Black Panther Party is about what I expected of you, funny enough.
Loving the Black Panther Party for having a nice ten points and a horrible record of not actually accomplishing anything substantial and murdering members of their own organization for not being sufficiently pure is about what I expected of an ML.
Not understanding the importance of the black panther party is about what I expected from you.
The group that came in at the tail end of the civil rights movement, murdered its own members, and then was effectively shuttered by the FBI?
THAT’S your standard for success?
You develop funding from sources you find more ethical: macro union agreements.
You need to look up present income inequality statistics. Billionaires are insane and inflation is making normal working class people tighten their budgets a lot. It’s a very uphill battle or outfund billionaires.
I agree that organizing is fantastic, but the sheer difference in quantity of Capital is why it is necessary for a leftist party to focus primarily on delivering needs externally to the system before attempting to win over local and state level elections. Grow from the bottom up.
That would require getting cozy with billionaires who are opposed to progressive causes. How is that supposed to work? What you’re proposing is like starting a game of monopoly where the other players own 90% of the properties already and claiming that if you just play along and hopefully land on properties that aren’t already owned then maybe you can trade your way up to establish yourself. How likely do you think this is to work?
The other options include: continuing to be a fringe platform, overthrowing a global system.
Materially, I think developing ever stronger unions (labor and otherwise) who can pool resources to compete in politics. Seconded by a strong push to win many more low level grassroots seats. Conservatives are winning these seats. By winning the lower seats, bureaucratic maneuvers are easier, and consensus is “cheaper”.
We had a strong labor movement but it took decades of fighting, the largest economic crisis ever, and two world wars, among other things to establish a middle class as we used to know it. It took much less time for the rich to dismantle that. I agree we should keep working to push the power of labor, but reaching our goals while working within the system is going to be impossible. There’s a reason why it took such catastrophic events to actually get anywhere.
I still remember 2020, progressives were bartering “just elect Biden this time, then next election we can elect AOC or Bernie”.
And yet they didn’t build those candidates.
I’m not bartering anything. I’m looking at the options directly ahead, and commenting about what I wish could be in the next rounds
And yet they didn’t build those candidates.
any attempts have been immediately quashed by folks like you.
Miss.
miss what? Im watching you do it in real time.
“miss what?” Yup
The US system doesn’t work that way. You have a choice between two people. A vote for a third party is a vote not counted.
Maybe the US system doesn’t work that way because people keep screaming at everyone who doesn’t vote for their one party vs the only other. It’s really odd to claim that your vote matters and then yell at anyone who tries to do anything with their vote other than to guarantee their vote for one of two parties. If the argument is to preserve democracy, well, it already looks like we don’t have democracy.
Your democracy is at stake and you are yelling that we should do democracy harder instead of attempting to keep the democracy destroyer out of office. Carry on though and personally insult me like you did in your last comment.
I’m not American so I don’t have a dog in this fight.
You’re not American and don’t have a dog in the fight, but you want to explain the electoral system that I participate in to me. Not sure where I insulted you or yelled (no exclamation point or all-caps/bolded words in sight), so it seems like you’ve completely misinterpreted my post. I didn’t say we should “democracy harder”, I said we don’t have a democracy and that it’s just a facade where people get really passionate about voting for one of only two viable options. Kind of hard to save something that doesn’t exist. Will things get worse under republicans? Absolutely. Will democrats do anything about that? Absolutely not. They’ll keep the office warm until the next time republicans inevitably win back power in this crooked system.
It’s because we have a winner-takes-all electoral college system. It encourages domination not cooperation and self-perpetuates because it stifles ideological competition. It’s not merely a social phenomenon.
How are we supposed to break out of such a system? Both parties benefit from this system and will never agree to change it. About a decade ago in Canada, the liberal party claimed they’d carry out election reform if they won. They ended up winning big time, but they refused to do what they promised because it would threaten the power structure.
Right, trump vs another candidate. Biden is awful and is the reason why the election is in any kind of jeopardy. But when trump wins in november there’ll be no self awareness to be found, that people were promoting an unviable candidate that no one likes.
You’re so engrossed in talking over the other person that you failed to read what they said.
They said “Run a better candidate against” Trump which IS possible to do by the DNC.
Not in this election, it’s far too late
The convention absolutely can select a different candidate.
I love that you lot complain that it’s not REAL democracy because the DNC is so sneaky behind the scenes, and then in the same breath demand that the DNC undemocratically appoint someone as their candidate who appeals to you and your fellows, voters be damned.
And you wonder why everyone thinks of you as fascists.
It’s the duty of the party to nominate an electable candidate is it not? They had a farce of a primary this year, so the only hope left is a hail mary out of the convention.
It’s the duty of the party to nominate an electable candidate is it not?
Oh, so now you DON’T care about democracy in the party. How convenient, how your ideals change depending on which allows you to scream “BOTH SIDES” the loudest.
It’s so frustrating to talk to democrat supporters. You guys should remember how that cost the DNC 2016.
democrat supporters
Lmao did you mean ‘reality observers’?
The primary is over, Jack.
What primary? There was some bullshit formality thing. But there wasn’t any actual primary.
What fucking primary, the dnc did their level best to not allow a real one
The “reality observers” that gave trump the election in 2016? Brilliant strategy, “reality observer”.
No like, I’m ready to vote for a competitive progressive candidate, but building that candidate will take time. Years.
The next best thing is not-republican.
You guys had Bernie Sanders.
With this level of support and rhetoric:
Yeah, and a majority of voters didn’t turn out for him. You think I was fucking chuffed to go through that twice in a row?
Have you been voting in all of your local elections and primarys?
If not, then you haven’t done anything at all to get a better candidate against anyone.
I’ve been voting in local and state elections for the last 24 years. When will that produce a better candidate?
Not during this election.
I can’t wait until I’m like 90 and I actually get to vote for someone I like.
That soon? You’re being too optimistic.
The inherent problem at the core of it all is you’ll only have the option to vote for people that want to be in politics.
And that you only have the option (realistically) to vote for people that other voters want to be in politics. As a conversation with other voters will quickly show, is a depressing concept.
Reductive. Neoliberalism protects and foments fascism as we ratchet a little further to the right each election cycle.
A meme? REDUCTIVE?
Jesus. Fucking. Christ.
The reason why the rachet turns further to the right each election cycle is because non-conservatives in the US have an abysmal voter turnout.
Neoliberalism is the product of leftists deciding not to vote because there’s no “good” option, and leftists will perpetuate this cycle by refusing to acknowledge incremental progress as a good thing.
If only there was a way to increase voter turnout, like giving voters what they want… nah, that’d make too much sense. The democrats are too smart to give people what they want.
Democrats do that. They appeal to centrists because those are the people who turn out to vote.
Leftists don’t get representation, the ratchet turns right. Funny how that works
Or maybe the centrists turn out because they’re the ones that democrats appeal to. Obama ran on a progressive campaign and won big in 2008, so it’s clear that it works. The problem is that he then immediately turned around and instituted centrist policy as usual.
Obama ran on a progressive campaign and won big in 2008, so it’s clear that it works
God. It’s fascinating how little self-proclaimed leftists remember 2008.
Which part am I wrong about? Obama ran on affordable healthcare, abortion rights, being anti-bailout for too-big-to-fail entities, and being anti-war. He won a supermajority. Then he scaled back his healthcare plan, said abortion rights “aren’t a top priority”, continued bush’s bailouts and added more, and invaded/bombed more countries during his term.
Obama passed the best affordable healthcare plan he could.
On abortion rights, he was no more left than Hillary. On the bailouts, he was openly in support of the Bush bailout plan even before the election. On war, Obama was openly in favor of the continuation of the war in Afghanistan and harder military policy against several countries, some of which even McCain wasn’t onboard on.
But hey, whatever helps fuel your delusional “If only candidates were more left, then they would DEFINITELY win in a landslide!” outlook.
Same thing with Biden. Ran on $10,000 of student debt relief for everyone, improving the climate, and not being Trump. People figured they could push him left, that was the argument. Now he’s been a lot better than I thought he would be admittedly. But still, the student debt relief has been extremely targeted, he made foreign electric cars more expensive, and he’s materially supporting a genocide while yelling at the protests against it. If they can’t push him left in 4 years, then the theory was proven wrong, candidates can’t be pushed left, and it’s right for leftists not to vote for them. Democrats don’t feel they have to move left because leftists have no other choice about who to vote for, so I get the calculus on their parts, but it’s becoming dangerous.
It also depends on how much supporting a current genocide is a red line for someone. That seems to be the biggest difference I see in these posts. Some people can’t bring themselves to vote for someone who does that no matter what. Others seem to be more malleable and forgiving about it. I know which one I am, but honestly, no judgment on either. I waffle between them myself. I don’t feel nearly as much pressure as others,though, because I don’t live in a swing state, so my vote doesn’t matter.
like giving voters what they want
Funny enough, giving voters what they want is inevitably decried by Very Serious Online Leftists
Good god. You win elections from the center. A center vote that switches from R to D is worth double because the R loses one vote and D gains one. You literally win from the center.
If you want the center to move, then make the Dems win overwhelmingly and consistently in President, house of reps, and senators.
So do you think republicans are catering to centrists with their full dive into fascism or do you think only democrats need to appeal to “centrists” for some reason?
Trump won by appealing to the manufacturing jobs sector, and because of the protest Hillary vote. As much as I want to believe people were/are informed about his fascism, they really aren’t.
And now, because Trump won one election, the whole Overton window moved right. You know, because he won an election. You want to move the Overton window? Vote.
Biden won an election more recently than him. Weird how the Overton window moves when Republicans win an election but not when Democrats do. Wonder if there’s a reason for that.
Hell, Bernie (and Warren) moved the widow more by running in a primary than they did by winning.
The reason is because Dems have to actually do things like pass legislation. Which more often than not requires all 3 of house, senate, and president. All the GOP has to do is block things and yell immigrants. Progress takes, you know, actual work. Stagnation or regression takes next to nothing.
Neoliberalism exists for many reasons. But blaming leftists is strange. We would be a lot better off if voting was not so hard for black and brown people, for instance. We can at least agree on that.
Yeah, I’m on board with making voting easier for everyone. Voter turnout is ultimately the only way short of violent revolution to fix shit in this country.
Voting is difficult enough for people who don’t vote conservative, which is why when leftists refuse to vote out of principle because their perfect candidates aren’t a choice, they’re figuratively stepping on the rake.
Totally agree about voting and its need for ease. But I can tell you more leftists vote than don’t, I can promise you that. Systemically that’s not the biggest problem. And I certainly plan to vote and I won’t be helping Trump with it.
I hope you’re right, but I’ll say that I’ve definitely seen more people in this election cycle say there’s no point in picking between two fascists than any other cycle I’ve been a part of. Especially here on lemmy
Yeah totally. Social media is bashing and circlejerking, even in the open source spaces. Not the best lens into reality.
No one will vote for our shitty candidates.
Should we run better ones?
No blame the people for us not having a good candidate
Great, so you’re going to overhaul the system and get us better candidates?
No?
Use normal words. You are trying intimidate people with confidence and you just end up not making any sort of point. If we vote the right people in and the right people do their job it isn’t fascist. We aren’t in a fascist regime. You are the only one being “reductive”.
Those are normal words, I apologize for not being the right kind of articulate for you. we have been moving right for 40 plus years. Both parties have been complicit. We fight endless wars under both parties. We have lost access to inexpensive higher education under both parties. We have lost the battle to the healthcare industry under both parties. We have seen the rise of the military police state under both parties. We have become spied on in ever facet of life under both parties. Our public infrastructure is falling apart and being deregulated under both parties. We have seen the militarization of our borders under both parties.
These are real material problems that we continue to ignore with the focus on these two parties. We’ve seen a modicum of progress in certain areas, but there has been a lot of loss of freedom and liberty.
I disagree. Neoliberalism and foments are not common at all. You can even look it up statistically if you would like. We are not a fascist regime just because you don’t like every decision. That isn’t how fascism works. You still have many freedoms others do not. Is it expensive? Absolutely. Is it fair? No. But there are plenty of Democrats fighting the dumbasses for those rights to become easier. So chill on your “we are in a fascist regime” jargon just because you can’t get every single little thing you want.
I said we are moving towards fascism. I never said “we are in a fascist regime”.
I don’t know if we can discuss how using more words attuned with the audience would help? I think I already said that and you didn’t take kindly to it.
Foment as much as it could be a synonym for instigate or moving towards as you put it, could also be taken as inspires or motivates an already mobilized force. Maybe it was a pour choice for what you were trying to convey.
The meme oversimplifies what is happening. Our politics has been drifting further to the right with each election and the people in power are fine with that, regardless of whatever party they’re a part of.
there you go
Even if we assume for the sake of the argument that your ridiculous assertion is true, “Let’s do fascism faster” is exactly the kind of bootlicking take I would expect from a tankie.
Never said I was a tankie bruh. A party that bases itself on a slightly more gentle fascism isn’t the cart we should be attaching ourselves to.
It will never ever be the right election for y’all liberal centrists who shit post on left folks. It is always the next one. Point is, if we want to be rid of this fucking fascist shit, we have to build solidarity with the left.
He just calls anyone to the left of him a tankie. He has no clue what it actually means.
Sorry that I think fascists painted red calling for genocide in America are bad.
Oh? Where’s the genocide? Point it out. You guys started this talking point a month ago and nobody has given even an attempt at rationalizing this talking point. You just sound like the guy on the street with a cardboard sign ranting at god. And even better there’s a real one going on right now that Biden is supporting. This wouldn’t be you trying your hand at some Good Old Projection would it?
Oh? Where’s the genocide? Point it out.
Oh, let me get this straight, you’re denying that Trump is genocidal now?
Please, I want this on record.
Show me then. I’m not going to make spurious accusations.
Wow, so enlightened.
It’s okay, when we’re dragged off to the camps for being Democrats, minorities, and ‘useless eaters’, the tankies will assure us that Biden would have done the same, in 6-10 decades.
Oh, of course. Remember, it’s evil to votes for democrats so the best thing to do is not vote at all! /s. Tankie logic.
Don’t worry, online brigading is definitely good praxis though, unlike so-called ‘harm reduction’ which only extends the period in which minorities can fight for a better future. Don’t they know that that’s useless, and what they REALLY should be doing is dying to inspire the privileged to finally Rise Up™ on their (belated) behalf?
Conflating anyone on the left with being tankies is exactly the problem.
If you don’t like being called a tankie, then don’t push tankie talking points, champ.
Go and read some, the left is a spectrum. Fuck tankies.
Oh, okay, so accelerationism and anti-democratic sentiment is just normal leftism nowadays? We’re all MLs and MLMs? Cool cool cool.
So is this accelerationism or does it not count when democrats do it?:
https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2022/07/democrats-spend-millions-on-republican-primaries
biden pushing billions of dollars towards israel against the wishes of people who vote for him is pro-democratic?:
https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/majority-disapprove-israeli-action-gaza.aspx
How about their rigged primaries keeping progressives out? Is that pro-democratic?:
I suppose it’s pro-democratic party, but the party’s name is ironic.
Never said I was a tankie bruh.
Didn’t realize that I wasn’t allowed to point out tankie behavior like “Faster fascism Good, Actually” unless the poster self-identified, thank you for the information.
Thank you for your inability to listen to reason.
“Reason” here being “Make fascism happen faster”
Forgive me for not finding that a terribly compelling argument.
Not interested in the whole yelling at each other thing, so genuinely asking here. What exactly does not voting democrat get the left in the US? Is the OP’s assumption that you want to accelerate fascism actually correct?
So far I haven’t seen any reason other than either accelerationism or “because it makes me feel bad” and I refuse to believe that’s all that’s behind it.
I’m really having a hard time, and I genuinely think it’s important to try to understand why those in the left disagree over things, rather than immediately turning to infighting.
Shifts the policies of the Democratic party so that they appeal to leftists. Not going to get into an ongoing debate, but just so you can’t say you haven’t seen any other reasons (which sounds fake to me but okay).
Could you give exactly one example of that ever happening?
Hey, remember when we all protest voted in 2016 and drove the Dem party SO far left?
Barely anyone protest voted lol. She got more votes from Bernie voters than Trump got from Gary Johnson voters. She lost because she didn’t appeal to specific voters in specific states, and the US has a shit democracy that she didn’t correctly strategize for.
Hey, remember when the Dems ran an unlikable centrist candidate as the lesser of two evils because anyone else wasn’t “electable” enough in the DNC’s view of centrist voters, and that translated into an electoral win via pinched noses in 2016? I’m really glad we got a dynastic compromise candidate that saved Democracy. That strategy worked out so well for Hillary, I can see why they’d go for it again.
Yeah, it is dogpiling and bullying in here. The reasons are here in the comments and elsewhere.
Bullying is when people say something I don’t like, and the more I don’t like it, the more bullying it is.
This is bullying lol, very disingenuous to the actual situation. Come on.
I appreciate it. I’m not here to debate you and I have no reason to lie about not having seen anything else, though I’m honestly a bit hurt that you think that, but I guess you’ve been nothing but attacked so far so perhaps it’s understandable.
Thanks for understanding. 🏳️⚧️💖
Political parties exist in the free market just like corporations. If they can’t earn votes a new party will form. It’s happened before and it will happen again. That’s why they message with fear. It’s effective at turning off any critical thinking.
Political parties exist in the free market just like corporations.
Tell me more about the political free market under Project 2025.
In fact, tell me more about how quickly firms rise and fall in the free market. It’s instantaneous, right?
Sometimes it is. Sometimes you have to push it off the cliff.
Sometimes it is.
lmao
I wholeheartedly agree.
Is this a bot? This reply doesn’t make any sense.
I was agreeing with not shitting on the left and the need for an attempt to understand them. Not a lot of good faith attempts at understanding happening here, just a lot of bullying.
I can’t tell if you’re mocking me, I don’t know how much clearer I can be that I just want to know why, if I can’t understand why people think it’s a good idea then I can’t be sure that my views/opinions are actually worth anything.
If you just don’t want to talk to me then, that’s okay too.
I think they were saying they agree with the idea that people should understand the political beliefs of those they disagree with.
People like this exist to argue. They have no ideology and no beliefs.
I was not mocking you.
Then answer the questions…
Idealism is fun, but it’s so very extremely privileged.
What is ideal about 40 years of two-party neoliberal movement to the right bringing us to the brink of fascism?
What is privileged about not having healthcare security, job security, in endless war, the environment going to pot, rent exploding, deregulation, ballooning prison numbers, speculative housing markets? Honestly it feels like the privileged who cannot imagine anything different than the bipartisan system that pits us against each other.
Idealism is fun, but it’s so very extremely privileged.
What is ideal about 40 years of two party neoliberal movement to the right bringing us to the brink of fascism?
Jesus. At least work on your reading comprehension before responding.
Idealism is great when you use it to fight for a better world.
Idealism is privileged when you use it to deny any reduction in harm as not being ‘good enough’ to permit.
Bro I see you here promoting Biden all the time, you the return2ozma of Biden, deepthroat him all you want but your candidate and your positions suck. I live in Brooklyn, NY and see more Trump flags everyday(and literally not a Biden Flag anywhere, Cardi B said she’ll abstain over giving him a vote), the only people saying Biden are proletariat, every normal working person I know is fuck Biden all the way. I keep hearing people saying we need to save democracy well then dump Biden, hes literal dumpster fire, and to the average person worse than Trump. Lemmy keeps telling me I am russian shill bot but I actually go outside, and I have people literally telling me I can deal with a racist president but not $4 gallon of milk when my kid hungry. I hate Trump, but tbh I hate Biden more, and most of America feels the same and feels insane that people tell us its not the same.
Turns out your experiences don’t equate to everyone else’s, champ.
And you claim not to be a trump supporter, but towards the end, you deep throated the shit of him. So nice way of exposing yourself there.
If that’s deep throating a candidate then what’s someone who actually likes Trump?
Maybe if you guys stopped pushing away anyone who doesn’t “deep throat” Biden you’d have more support?
No one is even saying that. Criticism is valid when they’re valid points. You motherfuckers pounce at every chance you get to shit on him even when he does something good. But keep equating him to the guy who tried to overthrow the government and is actively trying to do so again. They even have their agenda right in the open so you can read up on it, champ. Project 2025.
Oh shit. Looks like you’re saying it right now. I’ve never equated the two. And yet here you are swearing at me. Now I don’t scare easily and I don’t let people on the internet tell me how to vote. But this ain’t how you get more votes. Fear mongering and threats have never worked for the democrats. So the only “fucking idiots” I see here are you guys, pushing voters away.
Trump supporters ARE idiots. They are not allies, nor do I give a shit about you holding your vote over me. Vote for who you want, but don’t cry with what you end up getting.
You’re still not getting it. I don’t care about you. I’m not going to vote either way because of you. But being an ass doesn’t attract voters. That’s all I’m trying to tell you.
You didn’t have to tell me because I didn’t give a fuck to begin with. I never asked for your opinion.
If you think Trump will make your milk cheaper, you’re supremely delusional. He’s gonna give his corporate buddies massive tax breaks and crank up taxes on everyone else, which includes you if you’re not a billionaire.
That’s true but his messaging is heads and shoulders better. The longer Biden insists that the people are wrong and the economy is actually doing great, the worse it will get. People aren’t dumb, but they aren’t geniuses either. They can see their purchasing power is severely restricted from pre-covid times. Without training in economics, politics, and policy; they just aren’t going to be able to realize that it was a coincidence more than anything Trump did for them.
Everyone is mad but you’re mostly just sharing your experiences. This is why liberals suck, they never listen and assume they know best. Cardi B is honestly quite politically knowledgeable and articulate from what I have heard from her, but people are hating because she doesn’t speak in an upper class educated way.
You big wrong.
Why was this comment removed by a moderator?
Bro its Lemmy, I didn’t Stan for Biden and got removed. These are the same tone deaf people who are gonna be surprised by a Biden loss.
Yeah, I know that’s the real reason but I wonder if they can possibly provide any justification.
see more Trump flags everyday(and literally not a Biden Flag anywhere
Maybe because Biden voters aren’t in a FUCKING CULT?
Disagree
Did you see the meme at the top? I’m not so sure that’s true anymore.
“Did you see the meme pointing out what happens when there are two leading candidates??? How cultlike!”
Reality is so scawwy.
And responding to every comment with ad hominems is the mark of a rational organization known for critical thinking.
I didn’t realize accusations of being a cult WEREN’T ad hominems. Good to see there are rules for me, but none for thee. Very typical of fascist rhetoric. :)
Oh no, I mean that in a very real way. There’s people available to help you if you want. This level of aggressiveness over someone else not supporting your group is not healthy.
This level of aggressiveness over someone else not supporting your group is not healthy.
I’m so sorry that I don’t want to live under a fascist regime that will kill me. I understand that fascists like you think this desire isn’t healthy, but I assure you, wanting to live is entirely normal, even for us filthy minorities.
Oh well if Cardi B said she won’t vote for Biden, I guess that’s that. If the average person thinks Biden is worse than Trump, then they’re either willfully ignorant or just straight up dumb. The milk isn’t gonna get any cheaper if Trump wins, bud.
[x] Doubt
In 2016, the blue team won by 3 million votes and still lost the election. The system is broken. I’ll still vote blue, but I don’t think it will matter, especially since I’m not in a swing state.
The electoral college, first past the post and gerrymandering basically make the American electoral system a joke
Matters for your more local elections. Those swing states still send a lot of republicans to Congress every election. And control of Congress is pretty damn important.
More important than who’s president.
Especially when you consider we HAVE TO retain the seats we already have. Even if we did that we probably won’t get congress back.
I wish we could have congress back…
They don’t care.
Sure they will tell people that democracy will end if Trump is reelected but actually trying to fix the voting system is too hard.
Not that there has been any movement to do something about it. Just vote Democrat™.
Turning 35 this September. Only 1 Republican has won the popular vote since I was born.
Well yeah, that’s why they love the EC (and idea of land >>> people)
Oh, the massive hypocrisy of Biden refusing to swallow his Zionist principles and stop their Genocide, whilst at the same time sending his tribe’s peons around to try and convince millions of people to swallow their Humanist principles and vote for a guy who supports Genocide.
Biden could pretty much guarantee a win tomorrow by announcing that it has been determined that Israel is indeed committing war crimes, followed by cutting support for them as per the Law when the recipient of help is committing such crimes, ideally followed by sanctions.
Yet he doesn’t and instead there’s a clear propaganda op with repeated variations of the claim that “Not being for Biden is being for Trump” (which, curiously, is just the authoritarianist argument “those who are not with us are agains us”).
Why does the supposedly elected representative of all Americans firmly refuse to follow Americans as they turned against the Zionist Genocide and instead acts like all dictators by doing what he himself wants disregarding the will of those he is supposed to represent?
The argument of this and other similar posts which have innundated Lemmy would be a lot stronger if Biden wasn’t an example of doing the exact opposite of what these posts demand from others.
At this point you guys should just take all the time it takes to argue “tankies” for HOURS at end and make these low tier memes and just form your own political party.
It’s entirely the Democratic Party’s fault if Trump wins another term. But their online cheerleaders are so keen to blame Communists who are such a miniscule percentage of the voting population. Are you going to start Muslim-bashing as well if they don’t turn out in huge numbers to vote for Joenicide?
The sole “Trump will be worse” pitch and constant hostility is absolutely pathetic, and not an election winning strategy. Even your own party leadership knows it. The disconnect between the actual party and it’s online supporters is huge.
Winner: Democrat - “still fascism but its blue so its OK”
Ah yes, a system that is nothing like the American one, one without the electoral college.
Is this strawman clueless, or do you have no idea whats going on.
Would it help you to pretend it’s a state tally after the third recount of a Florida district? Are you familiar with President George W Bush?
Like, come on. You understand the meme, and you’re just being pedantic.
Ah yes, democracy- government selected by the capitalist elite, gerrymandering, and Florida man. That does make me feel better.
The main thing I draw issue with is the fact many states are not swing states. If I live in Alabama, what are the odds that biden wins that state?
Tell me, if I live in alabama, will my vote for biden influence the election at all? Or will it come down to voters in michigan or florida or some other swing state.
I do understand the meme, but I also understand that swing states decide the election. Your impact of your vote is determined by your location.
Before I respond, I just need to repeat back to you the argument you’ve made here. Upon reading it, if you really want to continue, let me know and I’ll give you a full response:
“I take issue with the point communicated by this 4-panel comic strip, because some people live in Alabama”
I mean, that’s one way to read the argument, but it isn’t the one I was making. It seems like you are misrepresenting me intentionally.
As you should probably know, votes for the president are not done by people in their states. They are done by electors in the electoral college.
These electors, as per tradition, vote for the victor in their state’s election on the president.
If I live in a deep red state like Alabama, the majority is already voting for Trump. If I want to change that, I won’t be doing that by voting or shitposting on lemmy, I’d have to tireless campaign for a president I don’t like.
You brought up florida in a previous comment, specifically the election with bush. I’m sure you know that florida is a swing state, and therefore is going to be down to the wire on some elections, right?
Alabama is just an example. I don’t live in Alabama, but my state has barely swapped colors in the past, and certainly wont any time soon. Same with New York, or Montana, or Mississippi, or Texas, or many others.
So, to rephrase what I said in the 2nd paragraph more focused language, will my vote matter if I live in a deep red/blue state? Or will the election come down to swing states?
Edit: i’ve reread what you said and jesus fucking bad faith argument batman. You literally ignored half of what I said to smugly say not everyone lives in the one example state I used
Edit: I’ve pared down my original comment here because after reading it, it came off way too harsh. Hopefully nobody read it.
The meme is intended to convey that withholding a Biden vote could result in a trump victory, and that “teaching Biden a lesson” at the cost of “having a fascist state” is a bad trade.
Your issue is that, it is possible that some peoples votes don’t matter at all based on their zip code.
I don’t know how else to put this: you aren’t refuting the central thesis. You’re on a tangent that AT BEST concludes with “well, this doesn’t apply to EVERYONE… But it still definitely applies to SOME”
It’s not that people’s votes possibly don’t matter because of their zip code. It’s that peoples votes don’t matter because of their zip code. There’s a lot of bullshit going on with voter suppression, shittily written constitutions, and how representatives are calculated, but the electoral college itself is what decides the election, not the popular vote. And with the electoral college, your location is determinate of how much your vote matters in the election.
The thing is, that does refute the thesis.
If the thesis is “You withheld the one vote that would have prevented fascism”, was true, we would either be using a popular vote system for president, which we literally don’t, or the person would have to be in a singular swing state that decides the election. This means that the thesis is only true for those who live in swing states, due to the presence of the electoral college.
I googled the current swing states, and I got Georgia, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Nevada, and New Mexico. The current population of the US is somewhere above 330 million, and the population of the swing states listed is, according to my napkin math, 55 million. I’m assuming the population of voters proportionally is roughly equivalent state to state.
That being said, this means there’s roughly 1/6th of Americans whose votes would be representative of this meme.
To call the experience of 5/6ths of Americans tangential is a little silly.
The irony is palpable that you’re describing voter suppression as a factor, while literally actively participating in it. Using social media to convince people that their votes aren’t important is quite literally an act of voter suppression. Trying to convince people that withholding their vote could not impact outcome, is voter suppression.
You are literally no different than a robocall telling people that the polling stations have closed early. You are a bad faith actor. For anyone who didn’t actually read the Muler report and were unsure about what “Russian interference” actually looked like, it’s this. It’s exactly this.
You understand the meme, and you’re just being pedantic.
They’re being disingenuous, which is worse.
It’s just more threats and insults for progressives that refuse to just toe the line. Don’t you know a proper leftist/progressive/liberal is obedient?
“I have been heard loud and clear. Now I sit and lay back like I always do anyway, and wait, any moment now they will cater to me.”
That’s just the tip of the iceberg.
They often help fascists in the doxxing and smear campaign of more libertarian leftists, as an example.
