It wasn’t too long ago that’s you saw fit to lecture me about how ML projects were the only long-term large-scale socialist projects to be “successful”. Maybe consider reading more thoroughly on history before making such declarations, and don’t restrict your information to sources from a personality cult.
i am assertive when ive done my research, ill ask when i dont. history is more complex and nuaced than knowing everything or not. i dont follow personality cults but i’m very aware of bias in traditional western media.
ML-adjacent revolutions are mostly still the most successful ones we ever had despite their problems. they worked pretty well long term.
i dont expect everything to be fixed in one comprehensive revolution.
mostly still the most successful ones we ever had despite their problems.
If your only metric for success is how long something lasts, then an even more successful leftist project is the Republic of Venice. If you’re thinking “But the republic of Venice isn’t leftist!” yes, that’s my point.
I guess you’ve never heard of trade unions, or you’re under some insane impression that they’re illegitimate (typical of ML sophistry, so I wouldn’t be surprised). The teamsters have existed since 1903 and in that time have demonstrated themselves to be resistant to corruption, able to recover from corruption after it takes hold, positively affected the working conditions of workers that interact with every sector and industry in an entire country and they’ve never committed a genocide, nor betrayed Anarchists in a war against fascism. Frankly, MLs ain’t got a thing on teamsters.
longevity aint the only metric. in fact socialist economies are pretty well estabilished to be the fastest growing and provides the quickest growth to quality of life. china’s growth has been unprecedented for a reason, the ussr was similar.
and saying MLs think trade unions are illegitimate is a big strawman. they are literally central to our strategy for revolution & democracy.
Yeah, because that’s what happens when a society weighed down by decades of stunted development due to mismanagement industrializes; a brief period of rapid growth as the economy catches up to the rest of the world. Incidentally, this period of rapid growth was then followed by a long period of stagnation and decline, with some sectors reaching or occasionally exceeding parity with the United States while others lagged behind. Leninism’s unique contributions to the prosperity of Russia is vastly overstated.
It’s true that China has fared far better than the remains of the USSR, but even the CCP is starting to falter from the rot of corruption. China’s infrastructure and housing are literally falling to pieces under a reign of state capitalism; construction firms are selling houses of sand because people are purchasing property as a form of investment. Considering that China is the most successful Leninist experiment, and the PRC has existed for less than a century, the record is rather abysmal.
[trade unions] are central to our strategy
Then why did Lenin abolish them? I’m glad you think highly of trade unions, but if you didn’t, you’d be neither the first, second, nor third ML that I’ve conversed with who said they were bourgeois institutions that preserved capitalism. Putting that aside, Lenin also clearly didn’t think much about democracy either, since he overthrew the duly-elected menshiviks.
a society weighed down by decades of stunted development due to mismanagement industrializes
yes, this is precisely the point of bothering to free ourselves with a painful and dangerous revolution, and a big part of why socialism is desireable. no capitalists making decisions solely for themselves.
China’s infrastructure and housing are literally falling
this one is simply untrue. they overbuilt housing and infrastructure on purpose. now that they have and excess of it, recently redirected their economy away from real estate, they literally massively divested and popped the bubble recently to focus on manufacturing instead. i also don’t expect every socialist country to be perfect and never make mistakes, even if this one ain’t it.
this sounds like the usual western media smearing of china, be careful about it since we are in the middle of a cold war.
Then why did Lenin abolish them?
soviets remained a thing before and throughout the entire existence of the USSR, again they are central to the ML strategy and democracy.
Well I already had you tagged tankie from somewhere else, so you’ve rabidly defended China, and Russia, or the USSR in the past. Seeing as you’re “just asking questions” about what atrocities Stalin may have definitely done, I don’t think I buy your excuse. Also you defended him 4 days ago, so yeah.
Ps: while snooping through your profile I saw your post about rocksmith. Unless your copy has a built in cable crack, I wouldn’t bother. They’re a massive pain and don’t always work, and the quality can be hit or miss. The 40 bucks for the proprietary bullshit cable was actually worth saving myself the ass pain of using the cable crack.
I’m not educated enough to say one way or another, sorry. I was just providing a source for the recriminalization.
User is a tankie JAQing off in bad faith.
i’m literally just asking about i subject i don’t know well. maybe chill.
It wasn’t too long ago that’s you saw fit to lecture me about how ML projects were the only long-term large-scale socialist projects to be “successful”. Maybe consider reading more thoroughly on history before making such declarations, and don’t restrict your information to sources from a personality cult.
i am assertive when ive done my research, ill ask when i dont. history is more complex and nuaced than knowing everything or not. i dont follow personality cults but i’m very aware of bias in traditional western media.
ML-adjacent revolutions are mostly still the most successful ones we ever had despite their problems. they worked pretty well long term.
i dont expect everything to be fixed in one comprehensive revolution.
If your only metric for success is how long something lasts, then an even more successful leftist project is the Republic of Venice. If you’re thinking “But the republic of Venice isn’t leftist!” yes, that’s my point.
I guess you’ve never heard of trade unions, or you’re under some insane impression that they’re illegitimate (typical of ML sophistry, so I wouldn’t be surprised). The teamsters have existed since 1903 and in that time have demonstrated themselves to be resistant to corruption, able to recover from corruption after it takes hold, positively affected the working conditions of workers that interact with every sector and industry in an entire country and they’ve never committed a genocide, nor betrayed Anarchists in a war against fascism. Frankly, MLs ain’t got a thing on teamsters.
longevity aint the only metric. in fact socialist economies are pretty well estabilished to be the fastest growing and provides the quickest growth to quality of life. china’s growth has been unprecedented for a reason, the ussr was similar.
and saying MLs think trade unions are illegitimate is a big strawman. they are literally central to our strategy for revolution & democracy.
Yeah, because that’s what happens when a society weighed down by decades of stunted development due to mismanagement industrializes; a brief period of rapid growth as the economy catches up to the rest of the world. Incidentally, this period of rapid growth was then followed by a long period of stagnation and decline, with some sectors reaching or occasionally exceeding parity with the United States while others lagged behind. Leninism’s unique contributions to the prosperity of Russia is vastly overstated.
It’s true that China has fared far better than the remains of the USSR, but even the CCP is starting to falter from the rot of corruption. China’s infrastructure and housing are literally falling to pieces under a reign of state capitalism; construction firms are selling houses of sand because people are purchasing property as a form of investment. Considering that China is the most successful Leninist experiment, and the PRC has existed for less than a century, the record is rather abysmal.
Then why did Lenin abolish them? I’m glad you think highly of trade unions, but if you didn’t, you’d be neither the first, second, nor third ML that I’ve conversed with who said they were bourgeois institutions that preserved capitalism. Putting that aside, Lenin also clearly didn’t think much about democracy either, since he overthrew the duly-elected menshiviks.
yes, this is precisely the point of bothering to free ourselves with a painful and dangerous revolution, and a big part of why socialism is desireable. no capitalists making decisions solely for themselves.
this one is simply untrue. they overbuilt housing and infrastructure on purpose. now that they have and excess of it, recently redirected their economy away from real estate, they literally massively divested and popped the bubble recently to focus on manufacturing instead. i also don’t expect every socialist country to be perfect and never make mistakes, even if this one ain’t it.
this sounds like the usual western media smearing of china, be careful about it since we are in the middle of a cold war.
soviets remained a thing before and throughout the entire existence of the USSR, again they are central to the ML strategy and democracy.
Well I already had you tagged tankie from somewhere else, so you’ve rabidly defended China, and Russia, or the USSR in the past. Seeing as you’re “just asking questions” about what atrocities Stalin may have definitely done, I don’t think I buy your excuse. Also you defended him 4 days ago, so yeah.
Ps: while snooping through your profile I saw your post about rocksmith. Unless your copy has a built in cable crack, I wouldn’t bother. They’re a massive pain and don’t always work, and the quality can be hit or miss. The 40 bucks for the proprietary bullshit cable was actually worth saving myself the ass pain of using the cable crack.
i literally want to understand your opinion here.
yes the socialist countries arent nearly as bad as western media paints them to be, and i stand by it. is there a problem with this?
What is the point of asking questions you can easily google? Finding answers probably isn’t your motivation.
my own research shows nothing about a gay genocide in the ussr, although i havent looked too closely in this topic.
im literally trying to talk to you and know your fucking opinion on it.
you can find me asking questions elsewhere without all of this resistance.