I got several comments deleted on .ml for insulting bitch ass pooh bear Xi, even called racist as if dictator is a race.
Dictators tend to be psychopaths. I wonder if we can call psychopaths a race.
Homo Sapiens seems to be a fine term
Homo Neanderthalensis were chill
If after the following steps:
- Get 2 Psychopaths to make a baby (let’s call this subject A).
- Take subject A at birth and nurture it in an environment previously proven to not create psychopaths.
- Test subject A after a threshold age.
Get statistical data.
If result:
- subject A is psychopath with 99% + confidence, then psychopaths are a race.
- subject A is psychopath with < 99% confidence, then psychopaths are NOT a race.
Just to be clear, I will not endorse this study.
It’s already been shown that psychopaths can live relatively normal lives when given proper treatment. There’s even a story of one such brain researcher (James Fallon) finding out his own brain structures in an MRI result showed a tendency to psychopathy, even though he was a fairly average man who was conducting such a study.
yeah I think generally the reasoning around it being a racial insult is that winnie the pooh is yellow
Are Asians considered to be yellow or something?
I only think of emojis, the Simpsons, and LEGO characters.
While good on you, it is definitely a classic racist terminology. People who refer to Xi as Pooh should probably be aware of it.
It’s because they’re both fat and have similar faces though. I never considered yellow. The Chinese use Pooh to make fun too. So I don’t think it actually meant racially.
Maybe so. For many Pepe was just a frog.
I don’t find much value in those kinds of portrayals to begin with, so I have a pretty low bar for defending their use.
The only reason I use it is that it’s banned speech that is banned because it specifically hurts the feelings of a dictator enough to ban it. That is a huge plus for using Pooh Bear for me. Everyone should be able to call their leaders a shithead.
Are Asians considered to be yellow or something?
I mean yeah that’s a pretty infamous kind of racialized portrayal that you’ll see in like old propaganda cartoons or whatever.
Guess I’m another proud ban of the world news .ml instance. Honestly, the pettiness of the mods over there is insane. They’re a cult.
I blocked them because their users, thinking I was Jewish, were constantly harassing me.
I am so relieved to hear those bans aren’t uncommon.
I’m new from Reddit (where I was similarly banned for questioning questionable news sources in relatively niche subs), and I was so sure this was a set up that fostered a bit more conversation and etiquette, like waayyy forever ago. So I was pretty upset when I got eviscerated for trying to argue a coherent point there in favor of using media literacy tools in order to help evaluating sources for bias and funding.
I, too, am quite suspicious, given those mods and associated power posters on lemmy.ml, that there is a coordinated propaganda campaign there. Or, there are some turbo-nerd-tankies that regurgitate it at the speed of light of their own volition.
Most of them are literally just children going through their edgy “I have no stake in society so burning it all down makes sense to me” phase.
I’ve literally described ml as “I’m 14 and very edgy”.
Consider blocking hexbear if their antics get annoying. They aren’t as bad as the .ml instances but they can be super annoying
I 100% believe at least a few of them are either state sponsored, or political extremists (drank waaay too much kool-aid.)
It’s hard to say emphatically which it is. Their responses are just so incredibly far beyond reasonable.
Tankies, like other fash, tend to push others out of spaces due to their vileness. I think it’s just a self-reinforcing cycle rather than coordination.
When I understood they’re descendents of ChapoTraphouse it all made sense. Half are righty astroturfers posing; some other sizable chunk are assuredly edgy teenagers. Some are foreign operatives. The rest are, frankly, the duped.
I would actually pay to see the look on Dessalines face when he realizes that he’s the nerd God to a bunch of teenagers.
I think they do it intentionally to maintain their echo chamber of propaganda.
It’s interesting, my instance doesn’t block them, so we end up often getting pulled into threads if we don’t check the details.
They definitely don’t like us when we show up, lol. You can tell they aren’t used to it, and they get legitimately angry when someone points out that American citizens aren’t evil, or that the world is more complex than their black and white views allow.
Is a real bummer because I am quite a lefty in my own group and general society, and I was hoping for some challenges from further left. But I guess if it’s not straight up revolutionary blood lust it’s just authoritarianism apologists.
Again, it’s one of the reasons I was stoked to join the lemmy/fediverse in the first place.
Same. This is my exact experience as well. They absolutely refuse to engage with broader leftist ideas on any any academic level. They legitimately think the philosophy ended with Lenin and Mao. Even fucking Jacobin doesn’t have enough revolution fan service for them.
I do kind of get a kick out of them quoting Chomsky though, who is absolutely no friend to Marxist-Leninist brain rot.
Yeah. They are not further left, they’re just the slightly left wing inside the rest of right wing fascism
Yeah, they pretty much just simp for any authoritarian that calls themselves communist.
You know, typical leftist things… /s
I shall balance them out with something utterly deranged. Wait nope cant think of something that is stupid or crazy enough to balance things out. Fuck it we should create a Trans cat girl joint special forces of NATO and have them assassinate Putin.
If you’re new from Reddit, welcome!
I, too, am quite suspicious, given those mods and associated power posters on lemmy.ml, that there is a coordinated propaganda campaign there. Or, there are some turbo-nerd-tankies that regurgitate it at the speed of light of their own volition.
Yes, and yes.
I just blocked both of the
.mlinstances and a few others that tended to ideologically brigade every sub. Has dramatically improved my experience here.Similar story here. Got banned from world news.ml on my first or second day for calling out russian/chinese govt talking points. Their go to is, “all western media is a lie, heres what glorious china has to say. At worst, the truth ‘Lies in the Middle’ TM.”
On reddit id say its worse. Post api changes, all the left leaning communities got absolutely hijacked. Places that prided themselves on no bans were banning anyone not regurgitating russian propaganda or “noo vooting” rubbish.
It’s definitely worse here in the sense that there’s more blatant repression. But I prefer that to the insidious ways they do it on reddit.
Hard disagree. I started picking up bans in formerly mildly left subs like therightcantmeme, more left leaning subs like completeanarchy, and the place was suddenly full of insidious left-passing communities like ultraleft over night. What were once spaces that banned no one, embraced many different leftist schools, and prided themselves on thinking for themselves now banned leftists who broke rank and file and instead offered the correct opinions on any host of issues the second one asked. To put another way, there was an influx of posts like, “im new, whats the [insert leftist branch here] thought on [insert modern political issue here]?” There was a time when these posts were not only hardly existent, but such asks would be met with, “go and read up on theory and see what u like, dont ask for ur thoughts to be spoon fed to u.”
I guess I was just referring to the larger subs on reddit like politics, news, and worldnews. I’m not part of any smaller political subs.
Ahh understood. I remember worldnews turning into, “and heres why the IDF is holy and Gaza should be leveled,” which, while batshit as well, is the opposite of what the tankies are saying.
The big subs really ramped it up when it came to Israel. Worldnews would have whole threads with 600 comments all saying [removed]. Prior to that it was much more subtle.
FYI lemmy was founded by a tankie, you shouldn’t be that surprised.
I assumed and gathered the gist of the general ideology here, even if I don’t know the story at all.
I was attracted to the decentralized aspect of it all, and was hoping for challenging views and conversations. I ended up having what I found to be a frustrating but productive one, that then ended up gradually deleted by mods and then I was banned.
I wanna get out of the echo chambers it’s so easy to create.
It really sucked!
I wanna get out of the echo chambers it’s so easy to create.
I think you’d probably have to log off to escape that, but then you’d just be confined to a different kind of inescapable echo chamber
I look forward to helping make them hate their own creation.
I think I’ve seen them mention that their personal views shouldn’t affect Lemmy’s moderation and administration in practice and the code of conduct reflects that. However there’re communities where they’re the only mod and the worldnews style random reason modding is apparent there as well
They 100% intend to keep their thumb on the scale as much as possible. I think their behavior has shown pretty conclusively that they cannot be trusted and will abuse any tiny bit of power they can.
the free software “movement” as it were attracts everyone from tankies to ancaps, and personally I think that’s great. At least (almost) everyone can agree on something
I’ve never seen a singular group online that felt more like talking to NPCs then the Hexbear/Lemmygrad folks.
Oh so that’s why Lemmy is morbidly centrist/neoliberal.
?
Centrist? People may not be full blown Marxist around here, but they’re pretty close. Just ask about landlords or universal healthcare or unions.
lmao no people regularly call me a shill for the CCP/Russia/etc at a frequency I’ve not encountered in other online spaces. they call me “grad”, hexbear etc, like those are slurs? The transphobia is rampantly unchecked, any trans related article has a ton of gender-critical (transphobic) take. My experience is that there may be some Token Issues, but generally people are very centrist and hostile to leftists.
Dude, your instance is all about trans people? I am kinda new here (6 months?), and I almost never see any hate speech towards trans people, at most some comment with 50 downvotes that is going to me deleted by a mod in a couple odd hours…
And maybe you are confusing leftists with tankies. Tankies think that russia and china are ok, because they are anti-us imperialism, and defend the soviet union because it was socialist and what not. Most leftist here aren’t tankies, and they recognize that china, russia and the ussr where/are brutal regimes that killed thousands. We still want socialism, but we don’t support genocide because you pretend to be socialist/anti capitalist/imeperialist…
I’m talking about gender critical, it’s not overt transphobia so you have to pay attention and look out for more than just slurs.
I’m not confusing tankies and lefties, for one tankies are a subcategory of leftists. But people on here see any leftist comment and will comment about people being shills.
The transphobia is rampantly unchecked, any trans related article has a ton of gender-critical (transphobic) take.
I’m talking about gender critical, it’s not overt transphobia so you have to pay attention and look out for more than just slurs.
My my, look how fast those goalposts move…
I’m not confusing tankies and lefties, for one tankies are a subcategory of leftists.
Tankies are a subcategory of authoritarians.
That’s the same thing I said before? About gender critical? I wasn’t moving the goalposts I was literally reminding you what I told you.
I’m not going to bother with your misunderstanding of political theory.
The trans to tankie pipeline is imo even more fascinating than the hippie to fascist one. I like to hang out in blahaj just to gawk at it.
Like, if you go to Russia or China they will kill you. The “liberals” you hate so much are what’s protecting your existence. You’re like a Black person praising the KKK for fighting against government tyranny.
They banned me from memes because I won an argument with the mod about how Credit Scores work in the USA.
How dare you, you monster!
Is it ml or grad that hosts a Mao reading group on their discord?
I don’t even mind that, and regularly attend those kinds of events at local campuses or book stores.
But why have those discussions if you’re just going to ban people who question theory from literally 70 years ago? Times change, and so frank discussions about what to bring into this he future to help with global emancipation isn’t necessarily a bad thing.
But don’t try to tell me that none of these dictators did anything wrong, or that they should be forgiven because other people do bad shit, too.
Not sure, but
.mlmakes you quote from an approved list of communist dogma as part of the application process 😆I am not making that up: https://lemmy.ml/signup
That’s actually hilarious though
Engels is actually quite good, but their dogma seems to fan more about the later anti-communist reactionary vanguard and bourgeois dictatorship bullshit
Patrick, that work is from Engels and marxists.org is a Trotskyist site. Hardly tankie shit
Right, these people are absolutely convinced they know everything but they fail at even basic leftist history.
Holy shit that place is both the joke, and the punchline.
That’s something relatively new. And funny.
They have a discord?
This explains the coordination attacking people who make anti Hamas statements.
How dare you suggest Xi Xinping isn’t the greatest benefactor of humanity of all times, you filthy capitalist pig? And I’m only slightly exaggerating here.
They don’t like it when I drag my balls across Xi Jinping’s face and he starts motorboating for sure.
The modlog there is wonderful. Bans all over the place without context to the reasons, what the banned might have done, or who was the mod
Anything against groupthink is removed. Downvotes are not enough. It straight to the gulag.
well, that’s at least in line with how things are run by the CCP
It’s because if you get into it with a tankies on another instance, or talk shit about them (like in this thread) they will get butthurt and go find anything you’ve posted on .ml recent and ban you for it.
People need to realize that .ml isn’t some innocent actor just trying to keep themselves free of trolls. They 100% intend to leverage their status within the fediverse to keep their thumb on the scale.
Ml is very anti-West in my experience. I heard about that kind of thing existing but wow. I think they conglomerated on Lemmy long before Lemmy was popular.
Lemmy was made by and is developed by Marxist-Leninists as a response to Reddit. You aren’t going to find any pro-west Marxist-Leninists. The admins of Lemmy.ml are also Marxist-Leninists, so in general Lemmy.ml is going to be far less pro-west than Lemmy.World, which is a Liberal Instance.
Lemmy.ml has fantastic FOSS and Privacy communities, so not all members are Marxists, but generally liberals coming from Reddit go to Lemmy.world, while Marxists go to other communities, in my experience.
Couple weeks back I got a 30 day. Made no comment in their instance. Was a random preemptive ban. The mod account listed the reason as a rule 4 violation. That’s their rule for spam and ads.
Yup it has been fairly recent that they’ve just started handing out bans for activity on other instances. You can tell they are very upset that they aren’t the biggest instance anymore and hate that they can’t control the whole fediverse as such.
Ooo so we can make jokes about “you have been banned from ml”.
Yep and for commenting here I picked up a few more preemptive bans in other sections of ml.
It’s pitiful behavior really. If their ideology was so solid they shouldn’t need to stop someone like me also on the left disagreeing with their authoritarian solutions. Everyone should be against authoritarianism period.
I got banned from one of the .ml communities in my first week here for simply saying I didn’t believe in any particular form of government.
Like, that’s all I said. I told them socialism, capitalism, communism - I think we need a mix, not a selection. And they were like BANNED. I didn’t swear, nor was a disrespectful - I simply dissented, and their CCP brains exploded from my audacity.
This was way back when most of us came over on the FuckSpezflower.
I got an account banned for suggesting that their meme responses are childish and cringy.
State run capitalism is not the way
Libs and whining about imaginary tankies on .ml name a better combo
Linkerbaan and apologizing for authoritarian garbage.
Next
“Imaginary tankies”
Don’t you have some Hamas atrocities to play apologist for or something?
Aha, and here it comes out. Running defense for genocidal apartheid ethnostate israel by saying “b-b-b-but tankies!! b-b-b-but china!!!” You gotta work on your hasbara game, bro.
Damn you roasted that strawman.
Are the tankies in the room with us now?
“tankies don’t exist” is the most hilariously inept attempt at propaganda I’ve ever seen
There is no singular definition of tankie, it’s used to mean authoritative leftist but it’s meaning is different to different people, it only really serves to limit discourse.
I’m not getting dragged into a fight about epistemology. Words have meanings, and we all know what tankie means.
No they’re over in ml, lemmygrad, and hexbear circle jerking to Xinnie the Pooh hentai
no there aren’t any tankies in the fediverse
You forgt the “/s”
insisting on the use of “/s” to denote sarcasm is actually a worse crime than anything mao or stalin ever did
no i will not be taking questions
Then perish.
if it means my children will grow up in a bright future of /s-less sarcasm, then i go gladly to meet my fate
If you can’t handle a couple downvotes from people who can’t understand sarcasm, go back to Facebook.
Yes, I’ve read Marx and Engels. Yes, I’ve read Conquest Of Bread. Yes, I’ve read Lenin. Yes, I’ve read up on the history of socialist movements.
But yeah, I’m just an ignorant anti-tankie swine. If I read one more Holy Text, THEN I would be enlightened.
I adore Marx, and the only reason I don’t regard myself as a Marxist is because I’m not married to many of his interpretations which have been somewhat superseded by later sociological theory on the importance of non-material conditions and postmodernist critiques of structured narratives within the soft sciences. But hey, I’m just some right-wing chud, clearly. I hold every opinion ascribed to me in this comment thread despite often and on this very website espousing the literal opposite position.
This is why tankies are so fucking insufferable.
Well, in their defense, when white liberals start criticizing China the white supremacist dogwhistles are never far behind.
I mean… just look at the shitlibs congregating on this post of yours.
I don’t know, seems a lot of the tankies are saying the top one too from what I’ve seen
Are there? Normally I see them saying things like “All Settlers are Legitimate Targets of Resistance™”
Stalin was an anti-semite who was planning his own Holocaust:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin_and_antisemitism
Notable Jewish person, btw: Karl Marx.
So, I guess original flavor tankies are just following their favorite leader?
January 12, 1931
Reply to an Inquiry of the Jewish News Agency in the United States
In answer to your inquiry :
National and racial chauvinism is a vestige of the misanthropic customs characteristic of the period of cannibalism. Anti-semitism, as an extreme form of racial chauvinism, is the most dangerous vestige of cannibalism.
Anti-semitism is of advantage to the exploiters as a lightning conductor that deflects the blows aimed by the working people at capitalism. Anti-semitism is dangerous for the working people as being a false path that leads them off the right road and lands them in the jungle. Hence Communists, as consistent internationalists, cannot but be irreconcilable, sworn enemies of anti-semitism.
In the U.S.S.R. anti-semitism is punishable with the utmost severity of the law as a phenomenon deeply hostile to the Soviet system. Under U.S.S.R. law active anti-semites are liable to the death penalty.
J. Stalin
January 12, 1931https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1931/01/12.htm
Yes, that is one of the things quoted in the wikipedia article. You’ll notice that there’s some other stuff that comes after it.
So, I guess original flavor tankies are just following their favorite leader?
Can we skip past the genocide to the bit where they piss themselves and die, then?
Tbf, he skipped that part too. Poor guy never got to do his last purge of “enemies of the state” 😔
They absolutely are. Don’t forget tankies have never been ideologically consistent. They’ll espouse whatever they need at the moment to further Putin and the anti-west interests.
Two leaning things attract people: The leaning tower and people leaning left😃
yeah, seems legit
I see so much whining about tankies, and so few tankies.
Once world has defederated from .ml, which is the next instance to be designated the tankie instance?
There’s a lot of tankies. You’re one of them. Although you pretty narrowly focus on “biden bad” propaganda
I don’t think they’re a tankie, just a tankie apologist. Though one could always look at the “There are 9 fascists sitting at a table” argument, I don’t think they’re ideologically completely aligned. Just enough to be willing to slobber on their boots.
That you can complain about fascism while unironically using this textbook fascist logic is enlightening.
That you can complain about fascism while unironically using this textbook fascist logic is enlightening.
Do you think the “9 fascists sitting at a table” argument is ‘textbook fascist logic’?
No, that’s just common sense. It’s the tankie apologist/concern troll business. You seem to be comfortable labeling dissenters in a way that lumps them in with an out group even if there’s no clear indication they are part of that group.
This is common fascist behavior, for example during the United States’s McCarthy era. While persecuting leftists was the main goal, McCarthy and his cronies would also persecute anyone who objected, labeling them communist apologists or just communists themselves, ensuring their objections were disregarded.
Man, in this very thread the progression I’m bitching about happens with “There aren’t any tankies!” comments.
“Leaves of three, leave it be” isn’t a law, but it’s quick advice. If you’re out in the woods of Appalachia and see some ivy with three leaves, chances are it’s Poison Ivy. “Generally posters claiming there aren’t many tankies on the Fediverse are concern trolls” isn’t a law, but it’s quick advice. If, in the Fediverse, of all places, someone is not merely claiming to have personally not seen many tankies, but firmly saying (or implying through additional statements) that there aren’t many tankies on here, they are generally a concern troll.
As for tankie apologists, I don’t see why a tankie apologist should be regarded differently from a Nazi apologist, or any other fascist apologist. Ardent apologism by people not part of the in-group is a thing, and surprisingly common. Like atheists who praise Christians to high heaven (pun intended), or right-wing minorities playing “They’re not that bad” games about the alt-right.
I don’t understand people who comfortably deal in their own generalizations or absolutes. They’re comforting because they’re simple but they’re rarely correct because they’re colored by the random chance of your personal experience and your innate biases. This is why science education is so important: it teaches you that whichever observations you non-systemically generate are probably at least somewhat bullshit. They might make sense on a personal basis until you challenge the assumptions they’re based on.
Your experience is entirely different than mine. I’m very active on Lemmy and I rarely see tankies as defined. Guess I’m a concern troll! Or am I a tankie apologist? I also see you calling others that don’t meet your criteria concern trolls or tankie apologists. I guess we’re all concern trolls, apologists, or whatever else you want to say we are so you can write off whole cloth anyone that disagrees with you. On the bright side, you proudly proclaim your biases and assumptions are facts, so it’s easy enough to know it’s probably best just to block you.
Go away, stalker.
I’m not stalking you, I just call out people with shit takes, and you spew a lot of shit everywhere.
Weren’t you going to block me? Whatever happened to that?
I’ve noticed that whenever a concern troll gets noticed for how often and consistently they regurgitate their bile, they always throw a fit. A shame. No one takes pride in their work these days!
It’s like they forget Lemmy is a small enough community that people will recognize usernames and patterns of behaviour. They shouldn’t be surprised at being called out on multiple occasions.
Nothing worse to them than pattern recognition.
Which bile would that be?
Go away, stalker.
whatever one they all switch to so they can spread their bullshit.
Well, you’re the first one to own up to centrists’ methodology for trying to push lemmy to the right.
If you haven’t seen them you’ve been lucky. They are definitely out there
They are definitely out there
Under your bed. Have fun finding the next tankie instance.
The “I barely see any tankies on the fediverse!” types are usually concern trolls who don’t mind tankies. Don’t take it as genuine.
Meanwhile the people shrieking about tankies day and night are what? Not concerned?
Meanwhile the people shrieking about tankies day and night are what? Not concerned?
Pretending to not know what concern trolling is. Classic.
Uh huh. Your concern is noted.
“Anyone who disagrees with me is a concern troll”. Are we on c/conservative? Cause there’s sure a lot of conservative brand cope in here.
^" Anyone who disagrees with me is a
concern trolllib".Do you see how absolutely petulant your ilk sounds?
Lol, “your ilk”. While I disagree with making assumptions about others based on little to no information, I do know that those who make assumptions about others based on information they’ve entirely fabricated can be safely ignored as they have little of consequence to contribute. Thanks for showing me that up front, although your comment history alone shows you have as much substance as cotton candy.
I get called a tankie and a trumpist by people who don’t like that I think Biden should stop supporting genocide.
Far as I’m concerned, it’s just something centrists say when they know their support for genocide is indefensible.
Painting this with such a broad brush is just a lazy way to discourage critical thought and discussion. Maybe not your intention but it’s unproductive.
“Stfu lib”
-a tankie that totally doesn’t exist
“You should try and have a productive discussion with fascists because they have a dab of red paint on them” is not a sentiment that I find productive to cultivate.
There’s sure a lot of straw in this thread. You bailing?
“Everyone who doesn’t agree with me is a fascist” is not a sentiment that I find productive to cultivate.
Sorry for thinking that genocide under a totalitarian state “Because it will totally wither away bro trust me” is fascist. I’ll be sure to follow the Party Line next time, I promise.
Oh yeah, I’m sure you’re not misrepresenting entire instances by painting them with a broad brush.
I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised that the person whose initial comment I responded to was a strawman argument would respond to my comment with yet another strawman argument. I figured it was worth a try but I see you’re not really interested in discussion.
I don’t see how my response to you was a strawman, except insofar as one might disagree that tankies are fascists with a dab of red paint.
My argument was that suggesting those who have commented on a high tanky comment to actual tanky (tanky_comment:tanky_real) ratio are mostly concern trolls is unhelpful because it writes off dissenting opinions with a simple, if unlikely, solution. I feel you’re shutting down discussion by encouraging others to ignore dissent - ignore them, they’re just trolling.
You responded by refuting paraphrased text whose content is not only absent in my comment, that message can’t even be directly inferred from it, either alone or in conjunction with your original comment. That’s textbook strawman - refuting an argument that isn’t the one being discussed.
Now is that your interpretation, that the consequence of not writing off anyone who has critical observations regarding all the tanky gripe comments as concern trolls is cultivating the sentiment of talking with fascists? If that’s the case, when you skip some steps by not explaining how you came to that conclusion and instead present your interpretation of the consequences as a direct paraphrase of my argument, it comes across as a strawman.
I barely see any tankies on the fediverse!
Because I block their instances and users on sight :3
I’ve been an active user since before lemmy.world, although I’m new to my current instance. Anecdotal but I now see far more comments to the effect of “tankies sure are gonna hate this”, where tankies then never show up, than those where they do.
It’s especially comical with the Lemmy.world users as their instance has blocked the largest sources of tankies. Even my alts in instances that haven’t blocked .ml don’t see anywhere near as many tankies as people griping about these tanky boogymen that have yet to arrive. I’ve even seen people who obviously aren’t tankies or even tanky adjacent being accused of being one. I’ve been accused of being one for just pointing this all out.
I’ll suggest a possibly unpopular opinion: the term tankies is turning into Lemmy’s equivalent of “woke” - many of those using the term don’t seem to know exactly what it means and its loose definition is expanding toward “anyone I don’t like”.
Lemmy.world is generally filled with extremely ideological Liberals with no real niche interests represented by Lemmy.
Reddit is getting worse and worse. After all, how could it not? The profit motive ruins everythinh over time, after all. Therefore, the people who leave Reddit for Lemmy generally dislike the direction of Reddit, such as Marxists, Anarchists, and ideological Liberals.
This brings us to Lemmy. Lemmy.world is a microcosm of Reddit, it’s the largest explicitly generalist instance. It’s the fediverse for people who don’t care about the fediverse, it’s for refugees from Reddit. The problem is that the leftists are on different instances from Lemmy.world, because they go to the explicitly leftist instances, or other instances for niche interests.
That’s why Lemmy.world represents Liberals too ideological to stay on Reddit, but who also aren’t comfortable with Marxists or even Anarchists. It’s Reddit 2.
I think you’re 100% right. The OP and I just had a really good discussion that helped me understand the heart of our disagreement regarding their tanky take is different perceptions of Lemmy population tanky sentiment. I mostly see comments to the effect of “where are all these tanky comments?”, a sentiment I share, versus “those aren’t tankies, therefore it’s not a tanky comment”, some of which I think they’ve seen as tanky apologia. And maybe it is, I’m sure they’ve had their own unique Lemmy experience. Anyhow, it meant the implications of their statements are interpreted entirely differently between the two of us. This dovetails perfectly with your comment. Not necessarily that they’re a liberal, as I can only guess about their beliefs, but that my experience on different, definitely more leftist instances is likely significantly different than theirs on .world.
Yep, I agree. I think a particularly large part of it is that many on Lemmy.world are tangentially familiar with Marxism and Anarchism, but fundamentally have not yet engaged with the source material. A quick example is Marx’s view on Government, which gets confused with Anarchistic by Liberals who have only heard “Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society” and stopped there, when Marx has always advocated for a Democratic World Republic.
That’s why I try to spend a good amount of time trying to lead Liberals towards Leftist theory like Marx or Goldman, and towards Dialectical Materialism rather than Idealism. The Liberals on Lemmy.world are radical, but directionless, so actual Leftists are scary.
As for OP, they called me a “fascist” for saying voting isn’t going to move America left, outside revolutionary pressure will. I have never advocated against voting, and have also expressed my intention to vote for Biden, but OP can’t resist when it comes to punching left.
They admitted that they’re quick on the draw, which I think explains the punching, but I don’t think they’re intentionally a bad actor. I think we’re all dealing with the application of what you’ve so eloquently explained: we’re talking about the same broad topics but using words and concepts that mean entirely different things depending on the commenter or reader, plus individual personality quirks. We’re all definitely not always benevolent, patient, and reasonable, even when when we think we are.
When I put on my old “I’m liberal but think socialism is edgy cool despite misunderstanding what it is” hat from my younger years, I can see how a lot of things just in the few paragraphs we’ve written can seem really awful or scary. Outside revolutionary pressure? That’s China, right? Tanky!
Oh, I agree! I don’t think OP is an intentionally bad actor, at all really. I would, however, bet with absolute confidence that they have never actually engaged with Marxism or Anarchism, which is why it would be fantastic if they agreed to read leftist theory. It’s just frustrating to see nothing but left punching from OP and judgements on who is left and who is right without engaging with leftist theory themselves.
Your second paragraph absolutely resonates. I myself used to be a “centrist,” then a liberal once I actually grew up a little bit, then became a leftist during my college years and have been reading theory and trying to better my understanding ever since. To be called a fascist when I know for absolute fact that I stand to the left of OP just frustrates me.
That all being said, I don’t believe OP is bad-faith, just not familiar with leftism and haven’t really done any reading. I’d be thrilled if they agreed to read Marx, but they have probably mentally written me off.
Oh, I agree! I don’t think OP is an intentionally bad actor, at all really. I would, however, bet with absolute confidence that they have never actually engaged with Marxism or Anarchism, which is why it would be fantastic if they agreed to read leftist theory. It’s just frustrating to see nothing but left punching from OP and judgements on who is left and who is right without engaging with leftist theory themselves.
What was your stake? You’d lose your absolute confidence bet. Fuck man, I have repeatedly expressed support for anarchists on here. But you know, anyone who doesn’t like tankies just hasn’t read enough theory, of course. If only they read more theory! /s
That all being said, I don’t believe OP is bad-faith, just not familiar with leftism and haven’t really done any reading. I’d be thrilled if they agreed to read Marx, but they have probably mentally written me off.
I’ve read Marx, and expressed on here, multiple times, great admiration for Marx and Engels and their writing, and even cited them at points.
Sorry that that’s not enough to make me pro-tankie. Fuck, if anything, it made me more anti-tankie.
Sorry, on second thought, you should really explain to me what I believe, you know me better than I do.
You might just have a more narrow definition of tankie, for me, tankies are about 4/5ths of .ml instances are tankies
Could be the ratchet effect. Lemmygrad and Hexbear are both explicitly Marxist-Leninist, but .ml is explicitly FOSS and Privacy based, just with Marxist-Leninist admins.
I suppose the “next boogyman” will probably be an instance with a very lax defederation policy like Lemm.ee, db0, or Shitjustworks, if Lemmy.world ever defederates with Lemmy.ml. Either that, or they will jump ship to Sublinks and that will be an entirely different platform.
I mean there are communities dedicated to having a problem with Lemmy itself being developed by Marxist-Leninists. Not sure it’ll stop at the instance level.
But hey: Shitjustworks defederated Lemmygrad since the admin doesn’t like them and hexbear defederated shitjustworks, so I only ever see these kind of after-action-reports from the folks that go out searching for bad takes from those instances or wherever.
My comment was more to the effect that since Lemmy doesn’t really have a large number of Conservatives, the Left in general is the boogeyman for Liberals in Lemmy.world, and they largely won’t stop punching leftward until they either become leftists themselves or they leave Lemmy (perhaps via Sublinks?).
It’s the lemmy.world boogeyman. Nothing seems to piss off World users more than asking them for an example of all these tankies. The only way the OP can even respond to objections is by strawmanning hard.
What are you on about? lemmy.ml has always been a tankie instance, that was the first Lemmy instance and it was set up by the tankie devs.
And you’re on lemmy.world, which has defederated from most of the extreme tankie instances anyway.
I called this back when world defederated from grad. That centrists would declare some other instance to be full of tankies and start trying to get it defederated.
Wasn’t very popular at the time.
Anarchists and libertarian socialists aren’t centrists.
Also, tankies moving to a more popular instance that tolerates them to harass more people is the most predictable thing in the world. (specifically lemmy.world)
So which instance will this army of bogeymen “move to” once world defederates from ml?
Look at reddit. Tankies infiltrate lefty subs and try to take over all the fucking time. So who knows which instance will be the next one. We don’t shift goalposts, tankies find a new angle.
Look at reddit. Tankies infiltrate lefty subs and try to take over all the fucking time.
Yes, they’re truly behind every rock. It’s not at all that centrists point at anything to their left and scream “tankie!”
So who knows which instance will be the next one.
One thing is for certain. Paranoid centrists will identify one as the source of all their problems and start screaming to burn the heretics.
Yes, they’re truly behind every rock. It’s not at all that centrists point at anything to their left and scream “tankie!”
My favorite was when ToiletPaperUSA, a left-leaning meme group, definitely didn’t have half the mod team removed by a handful of tankies who replaced them with their own goons and then subsequently banned and removed all criticism of China until the long-inactive founding mod was reached and restored the old moderators.
I guess I’m just dosed up on shrooms or whatever.
Depends. Which one will be banning people for ‘Sinophobia’ for voicing anything other Critical Support For The Comrade-Chairman?
Why do I get the feeling you got banned and are mad about it?
Why do I get the feeling you got banned and are mad about it?
lmao. I’ve observed .ml, but not participated, because I saw it was a shitshow early in my migration. Check the Lemmy modlog if you like; I haven’t been banned from any .ml community as far as I know. I don’t think I’ve ever even intentionally commented on an .ml community past the first month.
But disingenuous bullshit is the constant fallback of concern trolls like you. Spew enough shit, and someone will eat it up, just like the rest of your circle.
Instead you make inflammatory post about .ml from afar. Thanks for your concern. Maybe you should try ignoring .ml which you supposedly hate so much?
Maybe tankies from .ml and Lemmygrad should stay the fuck out of communities where non-fascists are the majority.
So you just read it to have something to your left to hate?
I guess that’s one way to live. You know you can block instances, right?
So you just read it to have something to your left to hate?
No. I read it because I was curious as to whether it was a good instance to interact with.
I found out very quickly that it was not.
But you aren’t interested in anything except apologia for tankies. I don’t know that you’re a ‘useful idiot’, so to speak, but I do know that you’re useful for them.
I guess that’s one way to live. You know you can block instances, right?
I don’t even have anything I’m not subscribed to on my feed, lmao.
Watch the goalposts change now from “ML isn’t that bad!” to “Well you can just block it!” and, subsequently, it will become “Well the tankies aren’t running your communities so why do you care?”
The accusations change; all that remains is the desire to defend their bootlicking friends.
I don’t even have anything I’m not subscribed to on my feed, lmao.
So you’re mad about something you don’t interact with?
It looks to me like you’re mad about something you disagree with and blocking them isn’t enough for you.
So you’re mad about something you don’t interact with?
It looks to me like you’re mad about something you disagree with and blocking them isn’t enough for you.
“Tankies don’t even run your communities, so why are you mad?”
Fucking called it.
Dude that is super antisemetic
Everything that isn’t enthusiastic support of the genocide you love must be antisemitic.
It’s reassuring that most people have forgotten about hexbear.
*Blocked
Isn’t lemm.ee still federated with hexbear? I used to have an account over there and fled to .world when the admin refused to stop apologizing for their God awful behavior.
Yes, they are. In fact I made a multiple-page-long post (on my old lemm.ee account) to the lemm.ee meta community asking to defederate from hexbear.net. Fortunately now you can just block an instance.
Isn’t the point of Lemm.ee to be very light on the block list, so users can create their own experience? Other than CSAM, I think the point was that users would be able to do what they want.
Yes, that is what they’re aiming for.
Yes lemm.ee is still federated with hexbear, which is frankly fine by me (at least ever since blocking instances was introduced).
If they’re blocked from your feed, it doesn’t really matter.
We are but I just use a Lemmy viewer that can block entire instances, problem solved.
You don’t need a lemmy viewer or app anymore, lemmy itself lets you block instances entirely now.
Even better!
What happened to them anyway?
Hexbear still federates just a lot of the big ones cut them off (or vice versa)
Your instance still federates
Instance blocking was implemented
They defederated because people were being mean to them (after they brigaded numerous threads, were omnipresent nuisances and annoyances, and posted a pig shitting on its own balls everywhere).
.world defederated with hexbear preemptively, but i’m sure hexbear would have defederated with .world pretty quickly anyway.
But i shouldn’t speculate, and you shouldn’t lie.
Preemptively? It should’ve happened even sooner. They should lose .ml also.
Given that “the dunk tank” is still one of their bigger subs, id say theyre still brigading.
They absolutely do, but they come in with .world and .ml alts now.
Yup! Thats exactly how it goes. Then they argue with shifting goalposts or gish gallop you into the dregs of a thread before they finally catch u misspeaking or not addressing one of their shifted goalposts and go, “ha! Look how full of shit u are!” Theyre incredibly toxic as they do it, and get mad if u preach any amount of unity on the left.
Back when blahaj.zone defederated from hexbear the tankies started in about how “transphobic” blahaj’s mods/admin are. I pointed out how absurd this argument was given the admin and many of the mods are actual trans people. This upset some moron and they posted a comment “calling me out” on c/dunktank.
Instance blocking wasn’t a thing then: but blocking everyone that commented in that thread and pretending to be a landlord so they’d ban me was.
Yup, sounds about right. And then they circlejerk over how righteous they are 🙄
It’s the same as that shit I took last week. The memory isn’t worth the paper that wiped it away.
Think a lot of big places defeated with lemmygrad and hexbear. .ml slipped under the radar, so you have to block it manually.
You have the block it manually for now.
I give it a week before some dolt there calls for violence (in a tangible sense(again, lol)) and it gets axed from the zeitgeist like the rest of the auth-right drivel does.
Nah lemmy.ml didn’t slip under the radar, it’s intentionally still federated with because it’s the main instance of the core lemmy developers. Said developers also own and operate lemmygrad, but lemmy.ml is meant to be neutral ground.
lemmy.ml never really used to be that bad, either. It was only after the mass defederation of hexbear that users from there started making alt accounts in other instances, lemmy.ml being one of the main ones and, unfortunatley, lemm.ee getting its share also. lemmy.ml is still ostensibly neutral ground, however now it has a pack of refugee users skewing how its perceived.
I think feddit.uk is still federated with hexbear btw.
Yeah, I block all three.
Nah ml isn’t neutral. I was banned for saying NATO is a defence alliance
I also find shitjustworks to be bad.
What’s wrong with shitjustworks? I just moved my account there because they seemed nice IMHO.
Nothing. It’s a good stable spot. Stays updated. It has the best instance name too.
I think a lot of trolls set up accounts there.
Nah man, I’ve been banned twice now simply for mentioning that time Russia shot down a civilian airliner over Ukraine. .ml is very fucking far from neutral.
i left .ml because i kept getting banned when arguing with tankies
I think it was primarily /c/worldnews over there that has that issue, what really doesn’t help is they use the same font and colour as the same community from lemmy.world.
And many just invert the reactions. Not better, in my opinion.
Communist China*
You can criticize Real China all you want
I mean, I’m about as pro-Taiwanese-independence as they come, but the fact of the matter is that the Kuomintang was basically government by mafia, and so corrupt that a large chunk of the Chinese populace decided “hey, let’s throw our lot in with the guy who thinks insect-eating birds are bad for crop yields, he can’t be any worse than the status quo.” That turned out poorly for them, but to a certain degree I think that if you want to recognize Taiwan’s right to self determination you also have to respect the historical decision of mainland China to go a different direction.
But then you can also recognize that the main forces (Taiwan) were massively weakened by the Japanese and had WW2 not happened then they wouldn’t have lost
Not the will of the people
Dude, even the US State Department notes that the Communists had broad popular support against the repressive Nationalist government.
Did you really just reply with an article that says
During World War II, popular support for the Communists increased. U.S. officials in China reported a dictatorial suppression of dissent in Nationalist-controlled areas. These undemocratic polices combined with wartime corruption made the Republic of China Government vulnerable to the Communist threat.
In response to me saying they wouldn’t have lost without WW2?
Looking at your comments in aggregate, you seem to be taking the position that the legitimacy of a government is derived from the end of a gun rather than the consent of the governed. Is that really a position you want to promote?
How did you arrive at that?
Were you not aware of the civil war?
Me: “The KMT was corrupt , repressive, and did not have popular support on the mainland for some time before their retreat to Formosa.”
You: “But WW2 depleted their capacity to resist the Maoists militarily, so you can’t say they lost popular support!”
Me: “I fail to see how the former fact supports your latter assertion. Popular support for the Communist side is broadly attested.”
You: block quote supporting my point "See, you’re wrong! Your own source says the KMT was made vulnerable to the communists during WW2!
Me: “It seems to me like you’re valuing the WW2 military contributions of the Nationalists over the broad domestic support for revolution against them.”
You: “That’s not what I said, you’re being ignorant”
Governments can and should be criticized without bigotry towards the governed populace. We should always take the side of the civilians, as we are civilians too.
It is in fact these governments producing massive amounts of propaganda to demonize “the other side.” What might they have to gain from global culture wars such as this?
If you think russians are just normal folk wanting normal things - think again.
Everyone lives in a culture that’s somewhat manipulated by the government they’re under. I don’t think now is the time to discuss rationalist economics.
Governments can and should be criticized without bigotry towards the governed populace.
In theory, sure.
In practice, there is some tacit understanding that a plurality of residents in a nation will hold views of the popular government.
The end run around this is to assert everyone in Bad Foreign Country are brainwashed or broken. But then you end up with proud outspoken nationalists vocalizing support. So we go to the Wumao/Bot narrative, where everyone speaking positively is paid off or fake.
And then finally you get to an actual conflict of civilizations - an Israeli / Russian invasion that is popular within the invading country - and that’s when you have to square the circle.
When hundreds of thousands of people are killing/dying to perpetrait a national agenda, it can’t just be “Country Bad / People In Gray Area”.
At some point, you have to see trees as part of the forest. It can’t just be a flag that you’re upset by.
Wanting trans people to not be exterminated is not “culture war”, fuck you and your both sides bullshit
Did u just take a gigantic shit into your own breakfast cereal and then get mad at someone else for it? 🤔
At least try to be topical when insulting.
I’m just as tropical as anyone else here.
This “global culture war” they’re talking about isn’t about trans people. I’m assuming you mean the culture war in the US. What they meant was the east VS west culture war.
That’s not a culture war, that’s a war war lol
That’s not what that word means.
Sure honey, whatever you say
