The show’s good btw…
We are capable if we stop being selfish and go vegan
We can but the solver won’t come from the mainstream, it’ll come from the edge. One of those insane weirdos that everybody knows is badwrong.
So be kind to weirdos.
The normies you can safely pound to paste tho.
Capable? Yes. Willing? No.
Could not have said it better.
I think Capable should be downgraded to a Maybe at this point…
If a civilization chooses not to be civil … why call it a civilization?
Because they have civilians
That’s just not how language really works, Axl.
Me fail English? … That’s unpossible
Capitalist realism. Human society has always been able to solve its problems. The issue is capitalism — our current society — can’t solve the problems it created like massive wars, hunger, regular economic crisis, and global warming.
Capitalism hasn’t existed forever, and it won’t exist in the future. Our civilization will solve the problem of capitalism by seeing to its abolition.
Are you referring to some pre-capitalism economic systems?
Like Feudalism? Greco-Roman slave-based economies? Tribal subsistence economies? Mesopotamian barter-based economies? Ancient Indian caste-based economies?
Seriously, which system are you pointing to that holds answers? I’m not against your position, I just can’t imagine what you mean.
Capitalistic Socialism seems the most successful offshoot of Capitalism. Pure Capitalism is killing its social networks, and the fabric of that system’s societies is falling apart.
It was just the statement that “human society has always been able to solve it’s problems” followed by a condemnation of capitalism. So I assumed there was some prior system that worked better for solving problems.
I guess they say Mussolini made the trains run on time. And Egypt’s slave economy was stable for thousands of years.
It’s like I said, I can’t see a prior example that is not meaner and uglier than capitalism, or at least as mean and ugly.
Capitalistic Socialism may indeed be a better path for the future. But I didn’t think it could be the original poster’s intent.
Oh no. Now we’ve done it.
apparently “egypts slave economy” is largely debunked. they had slaves like every other stone age culture, but their economy (and pyramid building) relied largely on paid labor
And of all the ones there, that one I pulled out of my ass. Thank you.
For the records, saying that capitalism is temporary does not imply OP desires reverting to a previously existing economic system either, so the egypt thing was a non-sequitor anyways
I’d diagnose the problem similarly to the person you replied to and I don’t think I’d feel compelled to offer a specific remedy either.
People have been experimenting with economies and societies for thousands of years and we are in a relatively new money/power/control stuck spot right now. I’m sure there’s been a system in history that would work much better than what we’ve got, but I just read recreationally so I dunno what it is and just because something worked 1000 years ago in North America doesn’t mean it’ll work here today. I wouldn’t mind giving something new a shot though, what we have is not working for most people.
You’re joking, right?
No?
Are you referring to some pre-capitalism economic systems?
Yes. The person with the hammer and sickle handle, who moderates Leftypedia, thinks we should retvrn to a caste system. You nailed it. Your question is definitely in good faith.
I don’t know where you’re getting all that information, because I’m on mobile and I don’t see any of that.
We’re not looking to return to anything, we’re hoping to finally win the fight against greedy psychopaths
Communism is not pre-capitalistic.
Wow. I didn’t know that. I just, uh, you’re telling me now for the first time. I’m actually sad to hear that. I am sad to hear that. Thank you very much.
But… you sarcastically implied the answer to the question “what pre-capitalistic system are you referring to” is communism. I can’t get a read on you unless you’re just very confused, bro.
The answer to the question is, “None,” because it’s a stupid question.
It’s like if somebody said they hate cars, and we can do without them. Then some stupid asshole said, “I see. Should we return to the horse and buggy? Perhaps the rickshaw? Chariots, perhaps? Maybe a world where kings are carried on a throne upon the shoulders of slaves? Or maybe just piggyback rides? Kindly ignore the existence of trains and bicycles. Thanks!”
I reject the premise of the question, because the question isn’t asked in good faith, and is fucking stupid.
As you wish – and I agree with you – but you must admit that sarcastically implying the answer is communism isn’t conducive to your position.
Capitalism hasn’t existed forever, it literally started in the late 1700s during a period called The Industrial revolution, when factory machining started the first cottage industries that pushed out previous modes of hand crafting.
At that point, when machines and cottages to hold them started to be required for mass production and hence competition in the market (pushing out hand crafting as a competitor) CAPITAL became a requirement of mass wealth accumulation… because one needed large sums of Capital to buy the machinery, rent the building, and hire and train the workers to exploit. So it became the limited province of the already well off to do.
That’s when Capitalism was born, and why it’s named CAPITAL-ism. Because it has Capital requirements if you want to join the Capitalist class. It was created in the British Industrial Revolution.
That you’re unaware of this change in the mode of production and what it represents, and believe that "oh Capital has just existed forever" is what some Marxists refer to as being in a state of “false consciousness”.
The system wasn’t always this way, and doesn’t have to necessarily be this way (eg. Marx offered the model of workers owning the machinery or “means of production” as his alternative, and there are likely others). Capitalism is a product of a technological “change of epoch” of the “mode of production.”
…and it’s defined the age we live in, and how we think. Which is what the later Frankfurt School neo-marxists discuss.
P.S. It’s also worth noting that the British Industrial Revolution, The French Revolution, and the American Revolution all overlap in time periods. Live was very different before the late 1700s.
Those were the delusional words of someone who lived in an upside down country. Kinda agree but if a single country fails, humanity doesn’t get extinguished.
Think about climate change and reevaluate that position. There is no feasible way that the countries of the world will get together and all agree to do anything meaningful about it because anything MEANINGFUL will result in mass death. There’s really no other way around it. Which is why everyone is dragging their feet. Who wants that? Who wants to be responsible for that?
Earth’s climate has changed many times before and life found a way, regardless.
People who hate themselves and have low self steem say that humans are cancer but the real cancer are the doomers that only sigh, complain and lie flat without doing anything to help because they think everything is doomed. Well, aside from the usual corporate billionaire cancer from crapitalism
Humanity fuck yeah.
The whole “good times create weak people” is fascist propaganda.
Yeah, I’d agree, and why I hope AGI is a thing soon, so the AI(s) can take over managing us.
No problem is ever solved no solution has ever been without further problems.
This is indicative of an ever expanding problem-solution matrix of entropy, meaning we’re neither solving issues nor creating problems, we’re just creating more complex landscapes to navigate.
This is why Buddhist monks and high tech computerized supply chains can both legitimately be said to have the answers we need, even though they’re from radically different ends of this entropy.
It’s also why they’re both wrong and lying to themselves.
We are both the problem and the solution.
I disliked the books and haven’t tried to watch the show.
But I think I disagree that our civilization is no longer capable of solving it’s own problems. Rather, I think our civilization is going through one of the crappy parts of common cycles that civilizations go through. Frighteningly, this part usually comes right before really scary crappy parts.
Civilizations aren’t static and the patterns don’t always happen the same way, but I think we can predict that
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Things get really shitty. People pull together for survival and build to a place of stability and prosperity.
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The rich and powerful (being short sighted idiots just like the rest of us, but ALSO insulated from and out of touch with reality), start looting society for their own selfish, short term benefit. This destabilizes the institutions and systems creating the stability and prosperity. The population at large doesn’t really understand what’s happening or why, but they DO know that while they’re still relatively comfortable, they’re scared and they don’t like it. They get more conservative and eventually turn to fascists, strongmen and authoritarians to try to get stability back.
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This doesn’t work out. It exacerbates the existing problems, makes things even more scary and less stable. Eventually war and rebellion break out.
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When the dust settles, things are really shitty. People pull together for survival and build back to a place of stability and prosperity.
These steps aren’t exact. They’re trends. Lots of things can disrupt them (including famine, plague and barbarian invasions). But in step 1/4, we (humans) are actually REALLY good at collectively solving problems. In step 2 we’re TERRIBLE at collectively doing anything. In step 3 we (collectively) are trying to solve all the WRONG problems… then back to step 1/4.
We seem to globally be right at the tail end of step 2. Which SUCKS.
tl:dr; This has all happened before and will surely happen again. Hostile aliens are just a modern take on the “barbarian invasion” disrupter. Beware of strangers bearing gifts.
Theorists and futurologists refer to it as the ‘Great Filter’ … a series of challenges that civilizations go up against which determines if they make it past the filter or not.
Our current filters are climate change, nuclear war and artificial intelligence … will we use nuclear tech or AI to benefit ourselves? Will we work towards dealing with climate change? or will us acting negatively with all this be the cause of our regression … or destruction?
We have equal capability at this point … we are just as capable of collectively solving these problems … or using them to destroy ourselves.
Our collective futures are most definitely in our own hands … whether or not we use those hands for good or ill is up to us.
AI right now is not a challenge. It’s inflated vapourware.
AI isn’t a challenge to those who know better, the rest are already building their cults about it: some say it will save us from downfall, others saying it will create the downfall. The sad part is that either group could be right, as it’s all a self-fulfilling prophecy and just requires enough people participating in the myth to make it happen.
And I reject the “vapourware” label. Machine Learning has a lot of potential for the future, especially as we break out of standard Von Neumann architecture and experiment with different types of computers/computing. Will it ever do what the consumers currently expect it to do? No. Will it continue to develop and grow into it’s own domain of computing? I’d bet on it.
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Our civilization is more than capable, but those who have money and power are unwilling, because that’s not something they’re interested or invested in.
Distribution of money and power is a facet of society.
No.
The only pressing problem we’re at the threshold of being unable to solve is climate change.I still stand that if politicians would grow a backbone, most of the problems we have would be solved overnight.
if politicians would grow a backbone, most of the problems we have would be solved
Politicians aren’t scared to do what’s right. Their job is to act in the interest of their fellow elites. The most successful at empowering their fellows are given more power. Solving society’s problems isn’t remotely on the agenda.
If anything, we want more cowardly and timid elites. Politicians with a backbone are just more dangerous predators.
I disagree. “No longer” implies we were ever capable
Human civilizations have only been around for a couple thousand years. That’s nothing.
edit: by this I mean to say that it’s too soon to make sweeping generalizations about what human social organizations can or cannot do. A commenter downstream rightly points out that “civilization” isn’t a well-defined term in this context, although I was thinking of it as a shorthand term for the various human political, commercial, cultural, etc. organizations of a given era. My contention is that because recorded history is only a couple of thousand years old, we do not have enough information about what the various components of “civilization” are capable of, especially when they are overlapping, interacting, and meeting a novel challenge.
btw I tried reading this book but got bored halfway through, and I watched the first episode and wasn’t that impressed either. I read the wikipedia summary and it’s got some neat ideas, though.
So do you agree or… you’re just making another statement.
Pasta in all its forms is delicious but I especially love spaghetti
Sorry, by “that’s nothing” I meant to imply that it’s too soon to tell.
Civilization is one of those great words (like Innovation) where if you’re using it, you’re definitely using it wrong.
When you say civilization, do you mean: The State, Justified Violence, Official Oppression, Bureaucracy, A Standing Army, Cultures you Agree with, or just Table Manners?
Human civilizations have only been around for a couple thousand years.
L M A O
Nope. There are problems that won’t be solved because of the framework of the system, but there are things that will be solved because it falls within the framework. Hopefully it goes a good direction, so far it’s been good for humans.
It’s both capable and willing, the problem is that not everyone agrees with the solutions being used. And so they say “we’re doing it wrong” instead of “I think we’re doing it wrong.”
I mean, not everyone agrees what the problems are. We can’t even approach talking about solutions until we settle on the problems. And that problem seems to be getting worse.
