Yep. Our household owns both a Leaf and a Bolt. Can’t stand musk and his cars that don’t have an instrument cluster.
I wanted a Tesla and couldn’t afford it. Now I can afford it and I would buy one right now if it weren’t for Musk turning into a complete shit bag. (I realize he always was, but he hid it well and I thought he was an awesome dude) Fuck that guy, and fuck every company he’s a part of. I’ll just wait until conversion parts become cheap enough it’s worth playing with.
Or the vast majority of people can not afford Teslas. The die hards have bought them already or have died in them already.
I own a Model 3 which I took delivery of back in 2020. As a car it’s actually been fine - no major issues, aside from a fault with the AC which was sorted under warranty. It’s been cheap to run, cheap to service (basically just tyres and other consumables like wiper blades), build quality seems perfectly fine and overall it’s generally pleasant to drive.
The charging network is also fantastic and by far the most reliable one, at least here in the UK. It’s now opening up to other makes of vehicles and I regularly see non-Teslas charging there.
Would I buy another one? With their current lineup, probably not. Nothing to do with Elon, douche nozzle though he certainly is. I mean, people still buy VWs (also great cars, used to own one too) and look who founded that company.
No, my issue is with the stupid cost cutting measures with removing critical physical controls from their latest cars. Moving the gear selector to the screen is absurd but at least you are (or should be) stationary when you are swiping the screen to change direction. Removing the indicator stalk however and replacing with buttons on a movable surface seems downright dangerous, especially in EU & UK where there are roundabouts everywhere and you need to be able to indicate while at half lock.
My Tesla is old enough to still have physical controls for all of those things and unless that changes I will not be getting another. I also just don’t do enough miles these days to justify a new car, I’ll just run this one into the ground.
I wanted a Tesla until the pedo guy incident.
perhaps I have been living under a rock… what’s the story?
When someone else managed to rescue trapped young cave divers without using Elons terrible idea that wouldn’t have worked. Elon called him a pedo guy. For context, it was in Thailand, so maybe that’s just the first thing that comes to mind for Elon if someone visits Thailand.
I could see it just being a shitty stereotype he tossed off, if he didn’t follow it up with hiring a fucking private investigator to try to dig up dirt on the guy.
He legit tried to ruin that man’s life because he told him his idea was not productive.
I was pretty down with Tesla until i listened to the Behind the Bastards episodes on Elon. Now I want nothing to do with him or any of his businesses.
His Twitter is enough for a lot of people. Dude is a middle aged white supremacist. A character that would easily be on the show “the boys”. That’s how comical it is.
Pedogate is what did it for me. Also, the Te$la schills really turn need me off with their constant BS hype to pump the stock.
No shit. My lease on the Model 3 I got in 2020 is up in a few months and the requirements we had for the replacement was “anything but Tesla”.
(which turned out to be a VW ID.7)
I feel this. I own a OG body style model S. I still have unlimited supercharging. The battery is starting to show its age and i’m sort of starting to look around. The Rivian R3X is my current front runner.
The RX3 looks fantastic and is the car that got be actually thinking about a full EV, and not a hybrid. If it comes in at 45k or so I think it could be a killer car.
“No shit” we’re the first words in my head too. Will be buying electric in the summer and the list starts with anything-but-Tesla.
I’m hoping my next car (might be a while, my Prius is only 8 years old and I will continue to drive it until it becomes necessary to replace it) will be an EV or a PHEV, but it will not come from Elon’s company.
my Prius is only 8 years old and I will continue to drive it until it becomes necessary to replace it
That might be a while. My parents had one of the first hundred Priuses imported into the US in 2001, and it barely needed maintenance and hit 200,000 miles before my niece totaled it in an minor accident. When they bought it she still needed a car seat.
That’s fine with me and great to hear! I have no interest in regularly getting a car upgrade. Every car I have ever owned, I have driven until it was either too expensive to keep driving it or it got totaled in a crash (never something that was my fault, thankfully).
I mean I would love an EV or a PHEV, but not enough to do anything about it unless I have to. If I’m lucky, by the time I need a new car, they’ll actually be self-driving and I won’t have to worry about that either.
I’m stuck at hybrid, as I work from home and live in an apartment complex that has only one level 1 charger for some 300 units near the front office where the property manager parks her stupid Tesla.
I’d go full electric if I had a place to reliably charge it.
I think the biggest hurdle for PHEV and EV adoption is going to be people like you living in apartments. Landlords have no incentive to spend money on chargers. It should be subsidized.
Absolutely. And the real kicker is apartments tend to be the exact demographic that could use a midrange electric vehicle to commute daily with the most.
I had the same hope, then got rear ended and my 12 year old Lancer got written off. My plan had always been to keep it as long as possible, maintain it, and drive it into the ground, but I hadn’t banked on someone else doing that for me.
Have a PHEV now, charging infrastructure where I live is pretty asstastic, and I do just enough longer range driving to make a full EV annoying under those circumstances.
Thankfully, I don’t need a huge range, so that isn’t a big deal to me. I’m in the U.S., in Indiana, in coal country, so yeah, electricity is not clean, but I’m also not under any illusions that me driving an EV or PHEV will help save the planet, either. The savings in gas is a bigger issue to me and I would be happy if I never had to go to a gas station in the middle of winter again.
Savings in gas, oil, transmission maintenance, brake pads adds up nicely. However be prepared to lose some of those savings in higher taxes because you aren’t contributing to the roads via gas tax (which is stupid because by and large the ones tearing up the roads are truckers). And of course battery replacement is expensive but I think that’s less of a problem than most people expect.
Caveat: I own a Volt, not a full EV, but I’ve been watching for quite a while.
I don’t know that it would even out with taxes, I think I’d still come out ahead, but I’m not sure I admit. Never having to go to a gas station again as long as I live unless I wanted coffee or something would be worth it alone. I absolutely loathe pumping gas. Everything about it. Especially the smell.
I’m not concerned about the battery issue. My Prius is from 2016 and the battery is still in great condition.
Thirding the no shit
Buddy of mine was in market for model S price range. Only because of this moron’s fascist shenanigans, my friend ended up getting BMW iX. Much better vehicle sans the fascism.
Tesla would do well to distance themselves from Musk, for a lot of reasons. But it may be too late - the damage to their reputation may already be fatal.
the damage to their reputation may already be fatal
Definitely. Tesla = Musk in my mind and always has been ever since it blew up with promises of a greater tomorrow that never materialized. All it did was up the EV competition, imo.
Yeah there was a time I thought they were enviable. Now it would just be such an embarrassment.
I’m someone who’s buying an EV and due to Elon alone, I won’t buy a Tesla. I’ve wanted one for so long but waited for the data to show how well they hold up after years of use and now that the data is out, I’m buying a non-Tesla. Thanks Elon, you moron.
I literally sold mine because I was embarrassed to drive one after Musk called that cave diver a pedophile.
And that was just the tip of the shitberg.
Ugh… I almost forgot about that. What an insufferable jerk he turned out to be.
Sure, be repelled by the dork, but stay away because of the unsafe lack of tactile dashboard controls.
I have a datapoint of 1, but I’ve also heard from my wife that when she’s traveling outside the US, so many cab companies and rideshare drivers have started using Teslas that the brand prestige is taking a hit, regardless of quality (which is also low).
Interesting… where I’m from most cabs are Mercedes limousines. I never heard about people thinking less of Mercedes because they are popular with taxi drivers.
They could definitely bounce back if the board fired him and the new head of the company made changes that actually made the cars better, rather than make the model numbers spell S3XY or have the horn make a fart noise for a premium or make and sell whatever the fuck the
Powell Motors HomerCybertruck is.They need to first fix the myriad of issues that plague the Cybertruck, from its reduced range from its pre-released advertised figures, to its inability to handle cold weather, to its difficulty in off-road terrain, to its stainless steel panels now rusting only months after its release.
WWSJD? Cancel the cybertruck. Clean house.
WWSJD? What Would Super Josh Do?
Steve Jackson, noted TTRPG publisher.
Clearly, he’d create a Generic, Universal, Roleplaying Truck, or GURT.
None of that matters. I just like riding around town in one of Lara Croft’s breasts.
S3XY
Do they? Or could they just junk them all and move past them like the complete mistake they are?
Don’t forget to fix the eyesore and the stupid name.
It’s 👏 not 👏 a 👏 truck 👏 it’s 👏 a 👏 fugly 👏 car. 👏
Jerry, what’s the sticker on this thing?
Maybe. But they’re not the only game in town when it comes to electric cars anymore. There are real auto manufacturers with good reputations making them now.
The problem is that Elons con man routine is the only reason Tesla is so overvalued. I’m sure they are afraid that if they let him go the stock price would readjust to a reasonable market price.
No matter what you think of him, he is brilliant at conning a tech enthusiast’s money out of their wallets.
That just comes with the territory of being wealthy, which he lucked into thanks to Peter Thiel taking a liking to him (probably because he wanted to fuck him). People confused the companies he invested in which happened to be successful despite him, and would probably more successful if he weren’t involved- see SpaceX when Shotwell took over day-to-day operations.
Lots of people, otherwise smart people, smell someone with money and say, “I want to go to there” because they think wealth can be transmitted through close contact.
I call it the Biggest Asshole in the Room strategy. Capitalists can be extremely successful by simply being the biggest asshole in the room. Smarter, more talented, better comnected people will cater to the biggest asshole in the room simply because it makes life easier to appease them. See also: Trump, Jobs, Bezos, Gates, anybody on Shark Tank, Ortega, Murdoch, Koch Bros, etc., all masters of the strategy. It’s a personality type that aligns perfectly with the free market where inertia and friction generate profit from the work of creation, innovation, and productivity.
Nah this iant true at all. I covered this in another xomment so Im gonna copypasta it here…
Tesla has the following:
Custom AI silicon designed by the designer of Apple’s M1 chip. It’s designed for training. They are about to scale it massively to create the Dojo supercomputer. They look to be on par with NVidia on performance/$. No small feat, and means they arent reliant on NVidia
They have custom inferrence chips used in all of their cars and their android robot. It gets fantastic performance per watt. My 5 year old car has first-gen inferrence chips and it’s still getting better with software… meaning it hasnt reached its potential. The latest chip design is probably much better, but I dont know much about it
They have possibly the best humanoid hands and arms that will work with this AI goodness.
Their walking and navigation is looking to be top notch… We’ll see
FSD really is incredible. I drive with it and it improves every year. Just got 12.3 and it’s pretty bomb.
Tesla solar is still a thing. The model 3 kinda derailed development a while back and it never really recovered. I think competitors are doing well and Tesla sees better returns on their other projects. Tesla needs to bring down their Solar prices which they just dont seem to be doing. Im guessing they dont want to scale manufacturing yet.
They have some of the largest casting machines on the planet and press out the frames of their cars for far cheaper than their competition can stamp and weld theirs. Stellantis and Toyota are adopting this manufactiring strategy as fast as they can, but they are a year or maybe 2 behind. I suspect Ford, VW and GM are adopting this too.
Tesla factory floors are much more efficient at iterating and improving. Their in-house software for managing workers and workflow development are unique to Tesla. Just look at the efficient packaging of their HVAC system after dozens of iterations every year for a couple years. It’s by far the best HVAC in the car world.
They have developed a lithium clay extraction process that vastly reduces chemical waste and water usage. They’re still 5 or so years out from implementing this in even a small capacity and clay extraction isnt guaranteed to be superior to spodumene. I expect the efforts they’re putting to this will pay off in 15 years.
They own lithium clay rights in Nevada where some of the richest Lithium clay deposits are. I think theyre doing permitting for mining, which will probably take to the end of the decade. Mining’s crazy
They offer the best price for grid-scale batteries and are growing that business faster than their cars grew. Hawaii just replaced their last coal peaker plant with Tesla batteries. California and Australia are saving a lot of money with them. The batteries pay for themselves when used to replace peaker plants and stuff to maintain frequency.
They are growing so-called virtual power plants and have been doing extremely well in a few test locations in Texas, Australia and Puerto Rico. I think the UK too?
After funding and working with the inventor of the lithium battery’s team they’ve been getting first looks at new battery chemistry. The thick walls of their 4680 are designed with adding silicon in mind. I suspect theyre testing this out at Kato road production facility.
They’ve collected a bunch of battery manufacturing patents over the years and their dry-electrode process is providing very good economics. Getting them to scale has been excruciatingly slow, but they’re about to triple capacity this year in Texas and I think are starting development of another iteration of their 4680 battery production process at their Kato road facility right now.
They are on track for becoming a top-three battery manufacturer by the end of the decade.
GM and Ford’s battery packs are like 5 years behind tesla’s. Tesla packs more battery in less volume using less weight with better thermals and ridgidity. Their packs are a lot cheaper to produce too.
Tesla claims they have a ferro magnet motor in development. We’ll see. If so, watch out for very cheap electric cars with no rare-earths or cobalt
They just signed deals with BP and an another conglomerate to sell chargers for the other business’ charging infrastructure. More volume means cheaper manufacturing for their own charging stations too.
All cars will soon have the NACS plug so everyone will be able to charge at a Tesla station… Which is the largest and most reliable charging network in the world.
Battery prices keep falling. Gas cars are going to have to compete with cheaper electric by the end of the decade. Tesla isnt competing with other electric car makers so much as it’s competing with fossil fuels. Electric will win this. The faster the better
Elon has contributed to these only in a “we’re gonna fund these wild ideas!” Way. Like Edison. He’s smart and avoided bad projects and embraced fast failing to great success… Things are maturing and I dont think there’s much value to get from Elon…
Tesla will be fine without Elon. I’d argue better.
The only fear of Elon leaving would be big oil investors buying control and derailing things… I dont think that’ll happen though. I think enough investors are in it specifically to eliminate fossil fuel dependency.
The fear of Elon staying is he drags Tesla into his edgelord bullshit and uses it to dick over the world as hard as he and some dictator/billionaire friends can… Which seems more likely
After he derailed the CA bullet train with his hyperloop hyperbole and joked on twitter abould the Bolivian coup, I dont trust his ass one bit.
I think the problem with these claims is that they’re all being made by Musk. Who has proven time and time again that he over-promises and under delivers literally every project he associates himself with.
If we actually look at where they are actually making their money it’s primarily just in their vehicle sales/leasing. They aren’t a silicon valley start up, they are a vehicle manufacturer, and when we analyze them as such, there is no real way to equate them with having 10x the market cap of ford.
I dont trust his ass one bit.
I don’t know how you could not trust him one bit, yet trust that what he claims Tesla is doing is what Tesla is actually doing. Custom ai chip, dojo super computer, android robot with the best hands…all of these seem like marketing scams. How does this improve the sale of cars to a significant degree? Seems like he’s just like every tech bro in the country scrambling for the new block chain, or VR type marketing gimmick.
They’re all fields of study that already have huge companies that have already invested significant amounts of capital and research on. What makes us assume that Tesla is going to be able to profit from these ventures when they haven’t even figured out how to make a truck?
I’m not claiming that Tesla is a worthless company, I just don’t think they’re worth 10x more than the most popular vehicle manufacturer in America.
Oh, it’s not the only reason, and the other may actually be worse. They sold $1.8 billion of carbon credits to other auto manufacturers last year. Which is pretty much free money to them. And hastens climate change, but, you know, free money.
I only have one question about the Cyber truck. Why haven’t I ever seen a rusty DeLorean, especially considering I have seen DeLoreans that lived in KY, GA, MS, AL, and LA
(Louisiana, not the city in California, not to be confused with Canada. Why TF do we reuse so many two-four letter abbreviations?)
The general theory is that they used a cheaper grade of stainless, specifically one that is still magnetic because it makes material handling easier during manufacture, meaning higher iron content, meaning more prone to rust if you don’t pay extra for the clear vinyl wrap. People will say the “real” name of the material is “stain less” steel, which is not true – “stainless steel” is just 1910’s marketing wank – but it is accurate enough as a description.
There’s a reason “Stainless Steel” is referred to as CRES (Corrosion Resistant Steel) more commonly in industry.
You won’t see rusting DeLoreans because there wasn’t very many made and they have always been something special. If you’re seeing one, it’s been cared for. But find one in a junkyard, they might not have that shine
The damage to their design certainly could be reversed though.
Remember when he removed the Disney+ app from Teslas because he was angry over twitter ads? That kind of unreliable behaviour might have something to do with it.
That was such a dumb move, not just because it was petty in and of itself, but because it means you now can’t separate Musk’s drama from his products. His antics will demonstrably spill over into fucking with your car, even after you bought it.
Yep. Maybe he’ll remove the functioning of the steer by wire in the cubertruck when he’s in an argument with waffle house next time.
My opinion is that nothing like D+ or Netflix or whatever should be on a central console in the first place. If it is there, there will always be a driver watching it instead of a road and killing someone as a result.
Until FSD is a thing, entertainment should be reserved for passengers.
Tell me you’ve never driven one without telling me.
Now imagine having all your shit tied up in X, The Everything App!™️* and you make a statement he doesn’t like or agree with one or whatever. Welp, there goes your bank account, social security info, personal medical data, and so on because you are being quarantined for the Woke Mind Virus
Tap for spoiler
*which will never actually become A Thing
I had no idea he did that but I’m also not surprised. That’s so funny.
It is hilarious, but it’s also very seriously something that would make most people reconsider their choice of vehicle.
Yeah. There’s a lot of products I use and buy where I really don’t like the owners or CEOs. I try to avoid what I can where I can, but some are so ubiquitous or monopolistic it’s quite tough. But this would get a hard pass from me, even if Teslas were far and away the best EV options.
If I can’t be sure the company’s policies aren’t going to be directly influenced by the fascist man-child CEO then I’m going to stay far away from the products. I have enough to worry about with corporate policies making stupid decisions for profit without watching an idiot throw tens of billions into an incinerator because of pride.
Oh absolutely. Though with all the EVs on the market right now, Tesla isn’t a good choice, Elon or no. There are better EVs out there.
I think that this is the part that people miss. When it was new and unique, they had the market cornered. Now the big automakers have caught up and they have far more experience with this.
yeah, for a while they were the only option if you wanted an EV with >80 mile range, but there are other options today
Tesla’s no-dealerships, no-hassle purchasing experience is more like ordering something from Amazon instead of the usual, infuriating slog of trying to purchase a new car. Its strictly superior to the legacy car companies, and so are Tesla’s batteries.
But the entire rest of the vehicle isn’t the best anymore. The CEO’s loud, public support for fascism is just one more nail in the coffin for a brand that was already past its prime.
You can buy a car from Carvana for the listed price and they’ll deliver it to your home now. One less reason to buy Tesla.
Yeah and while the dealer network of major brands can be scummy, it also comes with pretty good parts networks, which Tesla still seems to lack, or actively impede.
We bought a Tesla nearly six years ago and this was why. He wasn’t quite such an obvious raging asshole at the time, but also we were hoping to signal with our wallet that we wanted manufacturers to step up EV production. Which they did. I’m happy with my car but if I had to replace it, I’d look at other options. Although I feel like my M3 is the only smallish car option on the market right now; everything is a freaking crossover and that’s not what I want to drive all the time.
Fortunately with all the adapters and such, you shouldn’t have to put in a new charger.
A silver lining. I do like the plug.
I know I have… I’d probably have one right now if it weren’t for him.
Out of curiosity- did you end up buying a different brand of EV and if so, what do you think of it?
Not yet, no. Still in the market. Looking at hybrids too. I have transportation for my job taken care of, and I’ve gotten comfortable not having a car so I haven’t been in a rush.
I actually envy your position. I don’t live in a populous enough place to live without a car in America and I live outside city limits anyway, so the shitty, very limited bus system we have here doesn’t even get near my subdivision (which is massive), let alone my home.
My next car will be an EV or a PHEV (definitely NOT a Tesla). I have a hybrid now and I plan to drive it into the ground before I buy another car. Maybe I will be living somewhere else and won’t need it by then though.
I had a Bolt for 3 years. It’s a great little car. Only reason I didn’t replace it with another Bolt was because I was doing construction at two places (wanted more cargo space) and mostly working from home (not driving enough to justify the EV upcharge). I ended up getting a hybrid Maverick. Bolts are definitely worth looking into when it is time for your old car to make it’s way across the oil covered bridge.
I think PHEV is probably going to be my next choice just for emergency “out of charge” reasons if nothing else.
My only issue with PHEV is carrying around the extra weight of two power sources, plus the complexity of running both means more can go wrong and there is more maintenance. EVs are so much easier to maintain. However, I get why people want them. If my truck came in a PHEV I would get it over the hybrid. If my truck came in an EV, I would get that over either; but I’m not getting the F-150 EV because it’s the size of my house.
I put a deposit down on a Polestar 3 Performance Launch Edition. Years ago I wanted a Tesla and now you can’t pay me to take one.
Have you done a test drive yet? If so, what did you think?
No, I wish I could but there are no local Polestar dealers near me so when it’s ready for pickup it, I’ll fly to the dealer I chose and will drive it home. Cheaper than paying $1800 CAD to have them ship it ~1000KM.
I did watch several YT vids on people driving a Polestar 3 on a frozen lake in the arctic circle and they seemed very impressed. Mostly due to the air suspension and dual clutch torque vectoring rear differential.
In 2021, I was very close to buying one. I probably would’ve if not for the fact that I needed a car ASAP and they had a several month wait.
Now, I would not even consider a Tesla and the only reason is Elon Musk.
might have a little bit to do with quality of teslas (which mostly seems related to musk pushing self driving and the production floor)
A while ago, someone posted a photo (I think on Reddit before I left) of a Tesla with a bumper sticker that said something like, “I bought it before we all found out Elon was crazy.”
I think that should be encouraged for all people who bought a Tesla before the ‘pedo guy’ incident. After that, you have no excuse.
My partner reported seeing a similar sticker.
Related: I saw a cybertruck in the real world over the weekend and laughed heartily. I thought about stopping to take a pic, but fuck it.
People are realizing how shitty Tesla is because of Musk’s shitty behavior
I appreciate that Teslas helped normalize electric cars, but yeah, I don’t trust him enough to drop that kind of money on a product from one of his companies.
What’s to say he wouldn’t do something recklessly impulsive the moment I buy one that makes it harder to get parts, removes software features, or gets my car keyed by someone who hates his guts?
After those safety issues around 2019, I was getting really uncomfortable and lost interest in buying a Tesla. When he went pro-covid, I watched friends getting nervous. When he went anti-union, I watched my tech-bro friends sell their Teslas.
I think if you slap a Trump sticker on there, you’re likely to get a pass from the sorts of people who key cars. All it costs is integrity and self-respect.
Said it many times but I still think musk’s tesla had a negative impact on EV cars overall.
When the cars were first hitting mainstream markets (rather than being the car your weird uncle buys), automakers were already selling hybrids. I forget if they were plug-ins or not, but stuff like the Prius were ubiquitous to the point it was a joke on The Office.
Then the story became you need a full pure electric vehicle. And the way they marketed the distinction was that the most important thing in the world was a long battery range because coverage of charging grids was shit.
Which gets us to, funny enough, the cybertruck where the range is “okay” without hauling anything, dogshit if you actually USE your truck, and being marketed with a really expensive add-on to get an even bigger battery (and even less cargo space) because RANGE IS GOD!!!
And… that is the problem we see facing all EVs (moreso in the US, but also in Europe and Asia). The idea that you need an EV that will last you all day for a long roadtrip just to buy some groceries. Rather than a focus on improving charging grid infrastructure (which, we are actually seeing even in the land of the free ar-15 with a 12 piece mcnuggets) and fast charging of smaller batteries.
If we had stuck to the hybrid model we would have a lot less emissions over the years AND people would be more understanding of what they actually need to go “full electric”. I am a generally strong supporter of electric vehicles (who lives in the ass end of nowhere…) and even I was amazed at the mileage I was getting with some toyota hybrid rental a few months back.
Just because it deeply bothers me. If you think an EV can’t be used for a roadtrip, go watch the Technology Connections video where he talks about doing exactly that. The short and skinny of it is that you DO need to put a bit more effort into route planning (and there are great sites for that), but it mostly boils down to stopping for 20-40 minutes to charge up most of the way once or twice a day.
Which sounds bad until you remember you aren’t in your early 20s anymore and that sitting in a car for a 36 hour drive is a miserable experience. Stop at a rest stop for some food or a target/walmart for some snacks and a piss break. When you get done, your car is mostly charged up.
And if you ARE in your early 20s and considering an EV: Kid, go spend more money on avocado toast.
Plugins weren’t a thing yet iirc, at least not from the large mainstream brands. Prius was just normal hybrid without charging.
Imo it’s impossible to say what would have been, in a what if scenario like this. Without Tesla, large battery tech would probably/maybe/possibly be a lot less developed than it is now and we might not have seen plugin hybrids become mainstream just yet. Personally, I do think that Tesla deserves credit for accelerating the development of these technologies, and I drive a hybrid and generally loath Elon Musk :)
That is just it. If we are saying we can’t make educated guesses based on situations and trends then we also cannot make any claims that musk’s tesla was a net good.
But once we look at the past decade or so: We see hybrids pretty much universally get shit on for “not being worth it” and “a step in the wrong direction”. Which… there are merits to those arguments. But they are still better than pure ICE vehicles.
I did not see hybrids universally get shit on. I do know one person with that opinion, but I wouldn’t call him universal and I don’t put much stock in his opinions anyhow, he had had more weird takes before he spouted that one.
I wouldn’t buy a new tesla even if it was the only option. I would just go and buy used, not like the market isn’t flooded with the. … at least he doesn’t see a penny of it.
