There’s a bureaucratically complex but perfectly legal way for the administration of Pres. Joe Biden to send to Ukraine the thing Ukrainian brigades need most. Shells.
So the author proposes using not one but two legally questionable tactics to send Ukraine artillery shells that are actually worse than useless!?!
As the article correctly notes the US quit using those M483A1 and M864 DPICM rounds because of their high failure rate. If Ukraine were to fire even 2,000 of these per day that means there would be 280 (or more) unexploded bomblets lying on the ground just waiting for a unsuspecting soldier or child to wander by and set it off.
It gets mind bogglingly worse the longer they are used too, as after just a year there would be over 100,000 of the damn things laying around!
So no, they shouldn’t be used anywhere…unless you want to spend the next hundred years dealing with the unexploded ordinance littering your terrain!
Republicans need to STFU and get back to funding the real stuff. THAT is the answer, not legal chicanery to send shit ordinance.
I get what you’re doing, trying to play around the wording.
No, I’m agreeing with you while taking the opportunity to remind everyone what absolute scum Russians are.
no one is apologizing for what the Russian military is doing.
Exactly. Someone should apologize.
And I also see what you’re doing, putting all the blame on the military like Putin was not generally loved in Russia before the war. Russian are pissed only because now they also have to die. If Putin only murdered Ukrainians they would still happily support him and his war.
Because he needs to pretend support for him is absolute while in reality only vast majority supports him. Because he cannot allow any opposition to grow in Russia in case he makes a mistake, like he did with Ukraine. Because if there’s any sign of weakness even his allies will turn against him in a heartbeat.
He’s tampering with elections to move it from 70-80% to 100%, not to move it from 10% to 100%. It’s lower since the war didn’t go as planned but most Russians supported Putin and his war.
WTF? Whataboutism would be if you said “Russians killed Ukrainian children” and I replied with “But what about Russian children!”. I said “yes, children are innocent, ESPECIALLY Ukrainian children”. I’m playing especialism you dufus.
Don’t wanna be killed by a far off nation for money? Simply do not let someone from a nearby country commit a terrorist attack you had nothing to do with.
Are you stupid? America was the invader. You really think america can just deploy the entire force of its military in another country and not have anyone fight back using whatever means necessary?
Dawg you can’t seriously believe every single Russian is a fascist. I’m concerned for the citizens of Russia who do not genuinely control the actions of their government and military. I am concerned for the generations that come after them that had nothing to do with any of it that will still be exploded by bombs not yet found.
No it’s not. But are you referring even a little to the 3000 “russian” civilians from the start of the conflict in 2014? Where 2500 died in Ukrainian government controlled land. I bet the Ukrainian government was shelling their own side right? Besides the fact that the Ukrainians have considered all those civilians their own citizens. I guess when separatists kill civilians its not on them.
For a start: The orcs are using cluster munitions since the start of the war, and their dud-rate is much higher.
Second: Ukraine has requested the DPICM munitions already and has used the ones they received to great effect. Especially against the meat wave attacks they work very well.
Third: If the choice is between no munitions or (in the opinion of non-warfighters) shitty munitions, ask the Ukrainians what they prefer, but I’ll assure you they will be loading DPICM’s.
The US quitting these munitions has much to do with the type of warfare they engaged in over the past decades, the amount of civilian casualties when using the cluster munitions in civilian centers is just unacceptable. But at a trench front in a positional war, these limitations do not apply.
I see plenty of comparisons between the Russian army and the armies of isengard. Just look at what the land looks like when they arrive, how they treat their own and their enemies, their regard for the lives of their own. You might not like it, but if the shoe fits.
DPICM works plenty. But if you are fighting an insurgency, every last piece of unexploded ordenance is a direct issue. So the US don’t want to use them.
When fighting meate wave attacks in barren and desolate Hellscapes that are already littered with UXO… what is a few more? On the flip side, a group of 15 vatniks with no armor or only a bmp to keep them alive will not fare well against DPICM. So let the Ukranians decide if they want to use the DPICM.
Ukraine atm has millions if not tens of millions of mines all over the place. Adding a few hundred or thousand bomblets wouldnt make things measurably worse.
Many of these wont even be used as artillery shells, they will just strip them and ducktape the bomblets on fov drones.
Both sides have been extensively using mines and cluster munitions, because they are extremely effective. Sending Ukraine extra ammunition will save countless ukranian lives.
After the war, both sides will have a strong incentive to remove mines. Mines are often an issue for poorer countries, who dont have the funds to clear them out. Of course even in Ukraine there will be incidents decades later, but they should be comparatively low(to the amount of mines used).
Ultimately, the issue with cluster munitions is mostly about conflicts that dont already have millions of mines, because failed bomblets can act like mines. Thats less of an issue in Ukraine, because it already has millions of mines, acting like mines.
PS Russian cluster munition are terribly unreliable, much more than even old nato ones
So the author proposes using not one but two legally questionable tactics to send Ukraine artillery shells that are actually worse than useless!?!
As the article correctly notes the US quit using those M483A1 and M864 DPICM rounds because of their high failure rate. If Ukraine were to fire even 2,000 of these per day that means there would be 280 (or more) unexploded bomblets lying on the ground just waiting for a unsuspecting soldier or child to wander by and set it off.
It gets mind bogglingly worse the longer they are used too, as after just a year there would be over 100,000 of the damn things laying around!
So no, they shouldn’t be used anywhere…unless you want to spend the next hundred years dealing with the unexploded ordinance littering your terrain!
Republicans need to STFU and get back to funding the real stuff. THAT is the answer, not legal chicanery to send shit ordinance.
So fire them into Russia. Problem solved.
Even if you can’t agree Russian civilians are innocent, children absolutely are.
You’re right, especially the Ukrainian children kidnapped and held in Russia.
I get what you’re doing, trying to play around the wording.
Just cut it out, no one is apologizing for what the Russian military is doing.
That said, Russian children are not responsible for those atrocities, and 2 wrongs don’t make a right.
Ukraine defending their country is obviously just. Ukraine hunting children with UXO is not. Luckily Ukrainian leadership knows this.
No, I’m agreeing with you while taking the opportunity to remind everyone what absolute scum Russians are.
Exactly. Someone should apologize.
And I also see what you’re doing, putting all the blame on the military like Putin was not generally loved in Russia before the war. Russian are pissed only because now they also have to die. If Putin only murdered Ukrainians they would still happily support him and his war.
If he was actually generally loved in Russia why were the last few elections so obviously tampered with?
Because he needs to pretend support for him is absolute while in reality only vast majority supports him. Because he cannot allow any opposition to grow in Russia in case he makes a mistake, like he did with Ukraine. Because if there’s any sign of weakness even his allies will turn against him in a heartbeat.
He’s tampering with elections to move it from 70-80% to 100%, not to move it from 10% to 100%. It’s lower since the war didn’t go as planned but most Russians supported Putin and his war.
Yeah… He got 77% of the vote even after ballot stuffing and barring his real opposition from running. So your math doesn’t align with reality though.
Lol dude get a grip.
You literally played with the wording of the second statement of mine that you quoted.
Russian children are not scum.
I think you don’t know what playing with the wording means.
Your playing whataboutism. It works in that direction too.
WTF? Whataboutism would be if you said “Russians killed Ukrainian children” and I replied with “But what about Russian children!”. I said “yes, children are innocent, ESPECIALLY Ukrainian children”. I’m playing especialism you dufus.
Those
PalestinianRussian children are just going to grow up to beterroristsconscripts.What the fuck man
Precrime motherfuckers on Lemmy.
So, you’re saying it’s okay for Russia to bomb Ukrainian children, but if Ukraine returns fire, THEY’RE the bad guys?
Obviously not.
Killing Russian civilians for decades is also not a good idea
Why? We did it in the middle east an they’re fine!
You’re being facetious right? /gen
Don’t want to get war crimed, don’t do war crimes.
That’s literally the Geneva Convention btw.
Don’t wanna be killed by a far off nation for money? Simply do not let someone from a nearby country commit a terrorist attack you had nothing to do with.
Are you stupid? America was the invader. You really think america can just deploy the entire force of its military in another country and not have anyone fight back using whatever means necessary?
I’m talking about your simple minded concern for Russian fascists.
Dawg you can’t seriously believe every single Russian is a fascist. I’m concerned for the citizens of Russia who do not genuinely control the actions of their government and military. I am concerned for the generations that come after them that had nothing to do with any of it that will still be exploded by bombs not yet found.
No it’s not. But are you referring even a little to the 3000 “russian” civilians from the start of the conflict in 2014? Where 2500 died in Ukrainian government controlled land. I bet the Ukrainian government was shelling their own side right? Besides the fact that the Ukrainians have considered all those civilians their own citizens. I guess when separatists kill civilians its not on them.
What a nonsense take.
For a start: The orcs are using cluster munitions since the start of the war, and their dud-rate is much higher.
Second: Ukraine has requested the DPICM munitions already and has used the ones they received to great effect. Especially against the meat wave attacks they work very well.
Third: If the choice is between no munitions or (in the opinion of non-warfighters) shitty munitions, ask the Ukrainians what they prefer, but I’ll assure you they will be loading DPICM’s.
The US quitting these munitions has much to do with the type of warfare they engaged in over the past decades, the amount of civilian casualties when using the cluster munitions in civilian centers is just unacceptable. But at a trench front in a positional war, these limitations do not apply.
sigh You know its going to be an informed take when we whip out LotR references.
I see plenty of comparisons between the Russian army and the armies of isengard. Just look at what the land looks like when they arrive, how they treat their own and their enemies, their regard for the lives of their own. You might not like it, but if the shoe fits.
DPICM works plenty. But if you are fighting an insurgency, every last piece of unexploded ordenance is a direct issue. So the US don’t want to use them.
When fighting meate wave attacks in barren and desolate Hellscapes that are already littered with UXO… what is a few more? On the flip side, a group of 15 vatniks with no armor or only a bmp to keep them alive will not fare well against DPICM. So let the Ukranians decide if they want to use the DPICM.
Greenscreen and aged CGI?
Ukraine atm has millions if not tens of millions of mines all over the place. Adding a few hundred or thousand bomblets wouldnt make things measurably worse.
Many of these wont even be used as artillery shells, they will just strip them and ducktape the bomblets on fov drones.
Both sides have been extensively using mines and cluster munitions, because they are extremely effective. Sending Ukraine extra ammunition will save countless ukranian lives.
After the war, both sides will have a strong incentive to remove mines. Mines are often an issue for poorer countries, who dont have the funds to clear them out. Of course even in Ukraine there will be incidents decades later, but they should be comparatively low(to the amount of mines used).
Ultimately, the issue with cluster munitions is mostly about conflicts that dont already have millions of mines, because failed bomblets can act like mines. Thats less of an issue in Ukraine, because it already has millions of mines, acting like mines.
PS Russian cluster munition are terribly unreliable, much more than even old nato ones