I don’t think biology has much at all to say about gender though? Basic biology says there are two sexes, more advanced biology introduces chromosomal configurations other than XX and XY, and even more advanced biology considers a complex array of factors beyond chromosomes alone, but isn’t gender a social construct? Sure, historically it’s been correlated to biological sex, but it’s not really addressed directly by biology.
What results from a persons biology has people say a lot about gender, and that’s where the social construct comes in, yeah.
You have the genotype, karyotype and phenotype, that may or may not be strictly related to each other depending on what happens during development in the womb.
And now I realize I’ve already started to go on a tangent that wouldn’t even address your comment anymore, so I’ll stop myself
But it’s fascinating. I’d love to get a karyogram done, to see if my chromosomes actually match what people would expect from the person I lived as up to this point.
But it’s fascinating. I’d love to get a karyogram done, to see if my chromosomes actually match what people would expect from the person I lived as up to this point.
Would you expect something non-standard, or rather - would you be disappointed if it were one way or the other?
Wouldn’t it make more sense to educate the lad? I was confused myself there are two sexes (apparently gender is used for something else?)
If gender is who you like and how you feel and who you want to have sex with I don’t really care, you do what makes you happy. But if we are talking strictly biologically speaking then we’ve got two sexes.
Gender in puritanical definition clumps sex, sexuality, temperament, and cognitive ability into a single binary, and then takes that extreme quotient as justification for enforcing dress codes, vocations, social norms, etc. Along those gender lines. It is no wonder people are confused when first introduced to that concept.
But if we are talking strictly biologically speaking then we’ve got two sexes.
Not really though, I mean intersex people kinda disprove that by themselves right? Unless we aren’t defining sex by what you have between your legs but instead more of just a genetic makeup, which would mean that the 2 sexes theory is disproven by any of the millions of people who have the “wrong” chromosome pair.
The 2 biological sexes thing works as a very broad generalization but it really doesn’t hold up under scrutiny. I used to say the exact same thing until I got a dump truck of examples thrown at me lol
I find it far easier to think in terms of the fuller expression: sexual reproduction. Humans reproduce sexually, and not, for example, asexually. This means we require a male and female gamete to create offspring. So sex is which gamete your body was designed to produce. I then round this out with a second element which is to recognize that humans are bipedal, but not everyone can walk. The point being the design laid down in uterine development to produce a specific gamete defines sex not the ability. Lastly this is biology, not sociology, when we talk sex. If we want to talk gender we bring in the latter.
I find these core concepts have helped me and I hope they are helpful to others and would welcome other thoughts and ideas.
Everybody who want’s to tell you there are only 2 biological sexes has a reductionist view of a very complex subject and likely doesn’t know how much about that subject they don’t know.
From the perspective of biology, sex is a bit more complicated in humans than with a lot of other animals. In primates sex is epigenetic in nature, meaning that the DNA that contributed to our sex is expressed as we develop. It’s not set in stone, and when we are developing into male or female that expression can vary.
Sex is not as important of a distinction in human biology, it’s epigenetic nature means that the difference between a female human and a male human is incomparable to the difference of animals who present with sexual dimorphism.
Epigenetics are also influenced by our environment, what we eat, and what we do, meaning that a lot of the characteristics we associate with sex can change or be developed over time based on the environment.
We have observed young female gorillas who behave more like male gorillas, and as they develop they are observed to not only be treated more like male gorillas, but start physically developing more like male gorillas.
In short, its really complicated. Namely because outside of a specific scenario, there is no real biological reason to define sex in such a dichotomy. And even in those scenarios which require more myopic detail, the difference between individuals of the same sex are great enough to need more information than just male or female.
I don’t think biology has much at all to say about gender though? Basic biology says there are two sexes, more advanced biology introduces chromosomal configurations other than XX and XY, and even more advanced biology considers a complex array of factors beyond chromosomes alone, but isn’t gender a social construct? Sure, historically it’s been correlated to biological sex, but it’s not really addressed directly by biology.
What results from a persons biology has people say a lot about gender, and that’s where the social construct comes in, yeah.
You have the genotype, karyotype and phenotype, that may or may not be strictly related to each other depending on what happens during development in the womb.
And now I realize I’ve already started to go on a tangent that wouldn’t even address your comment anymore, so I’ll stop myself
But it’s fascinating. I’d love to get a karyogram done, to see if my chromosomes actually match what people would expect from the person I lived as up to this point.
Would you expect something non-standard, or rather - would you be disappointed if it were one way or the other?
I don’t really expect anything, no.
Being a newly realized transwoman, it would be kinda fun to have XX chromosomes and show that to the Simple Biology™ crowd, not gonna lie.
But then again, science has already established that chromosomes don’t have to mean what many people think they mean, so that wouldn’t matter.
Though I’d also just like more karyograms to be done in general, to have a better understanding of how present certain karyotypes actually are
well he is getting laughed at in the meme, because he can’t differentiate sex and gender either
Wouldn’t it make more sense to educate the lad? I was confused myself there are two sexes (apparently gender is used for something else?)
If gender is who you like and how you feel and who you want to have sex with I don’t really care, you do what makes you happy. But if we are talking strictly biologically speaking then we’ve got two sexes.
Gender in puritanical definition clumps sex, sexuality, temperament, and cognitive ability into a single binary, and then takes that extreme quotient as justification for enforcing dress codes, vocations, social norms, etc. Along those gender lines. It is no wonder people are confused when first introduced to that concept.
It’s been explained endlessly. Doesn’t work.
Not really though, I mean intersex people kinda disprove that by themselves right? Unless we aren’t defining sex by what you have between your legs but instead more of just a genetic makeup, which would mean that the 2 sexes theory is disproven by any of the millions of people who have the “wrong” chromosome pair.
The 2 biological sexes thing works as a very broad generalization but it really doesn’t hold up under scrutiny. I used to say the exact same thing until I got a dump truck of examples thrown at me lol
You can’t educate people that don’t care to learn. They don’t want to understand, they want to hate trans people.
Ant education will get overwritten by Joe Rogan at the next opportunity
How is sex defined? Physical attributes? Chromosomes? Both?
I find it far easier to think in terms of the fuller expression: sexual reproduction. Humans reproduce sexually, and not, for example, asexually. This means we require a male and female gamete to create offspring. So sex is which gamete your body was designed to produce. I then round this out with a second element which is to recognize that humans are bipedal, but not everyone can walk. The point being the design laid down in uterine development to produce a specific gamete defines sex not the ability. Lastly this is biology, not sociology, when we talk sex. If we want to talk gender we bring in the latter. I find these core concepts have helped me and I hope they are helpful to others and would welcome other thoughts and ideas.
Let’s throw “Neuroanatomy?” in there too, just for fun!
In short and what @miss_brainfart@lemmy.ml is alluding to:
Everybody who want’s to tell you there are only 2 biological sexes has a reductionist view of a very complex subject and likely doesn’t know how much about that subject they don’t know.
Excuse me, I have since transitioned to blahaj lemmy^^
Oh, my bad, sorry for dead-instancing you, good to see you’re better about your phobia now.
Haha, thank you^^
From the perspective of biology, sex is a bit more complicated in humans than with a lot of other animals. In primates sex is epigenetic in nature, meaning that the DNA that contributed to our sex is expressed as we develop. It’s not set in stone, and when we are developing into male or female that expression can vary.
Sex is not as important of a distinction in human biology, it’s epigenetic nature means that the difference between a female human and a male human is incomparable to the difference of animals who present with sexual dimorphism.
Epigenetics are also influenced by our environment, what we eat, and what we do, meaning that a lot of the characteristics we associate with sex can change or be developed over time based on the environment.
We have observed young female gorillas who behave more like male gorillas, and as they develop they are observed to not only be treated more like male gorillas, but start physically developing more like male gorillas.
In short, its really complicated. Namely because outside of a specific scenario, there is no real biological reason to define sex in such a dichotomy. And even in those scenarios which require more myopic detail, the difference between individuals of the same sex are great enough to need more information than just male or female.