This is why I don’t get excited when I hear some software that I already use and works fine gets an update. More often than not the update makes the software worse.
It used to not be the case, but as of the past decade or so, it seems like more and more software is getting lower quality or substantially bug ridden. Not just on windows either. It’s everything now.
Back in the day, each update used to fix bugs, add genuinely useful features, and were eagerly anticipated. Now, I get to do lovely things like RMA a bricked steam deck on stable channel or listen to New Teams’ ringer doubling, once before a call is picked up, and ringing again after the phone is answered. I wish I was joking for either of these.
That’s nothing we didn’t already know.
Hey Proton how about you quit privacy-washing and actually prioritize and release feature parity products for Linux so your customers aren’t being herded onto windows’ data harvesting platform just so they can use your supposedly privacy forward products
The Linux Experiment recently interviewed the CEO who answered this question.
Basically it’s the same as anything else. Linux requires more effort to code for due to its variety of distributions, and has a significantly smaller userbase.
In short, don’t blame Proton, blame the (lack of) users.
I mean, can’t you just package your app in flatpack or even snap? Bam, your app works on 99% of distributions for little effort. That’s what Spotify does, and I’d argue they have even less incentive to support Linux than proton does
He also answered this claim, it is right for apps that aren’t stuff like Proton VPN that can’t work in a sandboxed environment. They are working on it iirc
Screw VPNs, give us everything else!
Sure, as long as you don’t need any integration with other software, don’t need arbitrary IPC, and actually keep some dependencies in line with some common denominator because there’s only so much you can do with static linking (oh excuse me, distributing the shared libraries in the same package as your binaries as if it’s a new thing) once it reach the “program must actually run” part.
Flatpack and every other similar solution that are described as “works everywhere” always come with a heck of limitations.
Spoken like someone who has never developed a app package
I don’t know, I’m not a developer. Lots of companies don’t make their products available on Linux, most cite similar reasoning, so it’s unsurprising. But I agree it’s disappointing. I really wish Linux was more user-friendly.
TBH when I got this exact pop up on my last windows laptop (dell xps13) I actually panicked and installed PopOS on it.
I didn’t feel like distro hopping, I just needed it to work. I guess that shows how I feel about PopOS at the moment.
I got a popup saying “wanna try the new Outlook app”? So I did and the fucking thing immediately inserted ads that resembled email into my inbox. If this is the future I’ll install Thunderbird.
Thunderbird is great!
It’s almost as if Microsoft doesn’t do that already!
No sh*t.
But, TBF, email as a system doesn’t need ProtonMail too to be kinda private.
PGP, mixmasters, all those things born around the same time as me.
That’s if we lived in a world where “key party” weren’t perceived as related to sex.
I’m surprised that the developer of a privacy-focused product would accuse its competitor of not being good for privacy.
It’s basically gmail. It’s a web/email server that you give your creds over to . It has an offline mode that I guess makes it an app.
Yeah they read your shit.
PROTON WORKS WITH THE FEDS PROTON WORKS WITH THE FEDS PROTON WORKS WITH THE FEDS PROTON WORKS WITH THE FEDS ProtonMail Gives Up Logs on User, Then Scrubs Website of No IP Logging Claims it gave out thousands of ip adresses over the years
Company does a thing required by law.
Pikachu face.
This is such a bitch ass stance. Oh, gosh, the law requires it. Oh man, I guess I have to use an email service that works with the feds. Why bother having rights if you’re going to proudly throw them away?
The law - for good or for bad - is what defines rights. If there is a judge which says that an investigation has to happen, and also the companies ensured that the claim is legit (you see from the stats that the context 15-20% of the data requests), then what else can be done?
You cannot operate illegally, so either you comply or you shut down.
There’s no “feds” in Europe.
And if you bothered to check it yourself instead of bitching about it based on some random guy’s post spreading FUD you might have found out Proton contributed to a legal fight that changed the Swiss law and made a repeat of this situation impossible.
You understand how the internet protocol works right. This argument has been going for a long time now. Yes, they gave up IP address because they couldn’t win in court. They’re like the only company who will fight tooth and nail for you in court but the feds ordered them to do so, so they had to comply. The messages were all end to end encrypted and other than what metadata was requested, they didn’t get much.
Yeah, based on a legal request - that’s how it should be. Our problems are not police listening in on criminals but unwarranted mass-surveillance.
No shit. There’s a reason they are killing the nice and simple Windows Mail app; it allows you to sync with your email without Microsoft servers between.
Also, the biggest issue for me is the UX. I use outlook for my work email and like to separate my work and personal life, so soon I just won’t have an app for my personal email on my PC.
If anyone knows of a similar windows mail app with good touch support and without such a traditional mouse designed UI, please share it.
What especially galled me was as I was updating my laptop before flashing to Linux the new outlook will not work unless edge installed, I had just uninstalled that pile of garbage.
Ah well, at least pop_os works great 😃
The new thunderbird UI looked neat and modern.
They’re still working out some kinks, but yes, the new UI of Thunderbird 115+ is pretty good.
Isn’t that more of a replacement for Outlook? It doesn’t look designed around touch like the windows mail app.
Outlook in Office (365) is the actual Outlook.
This is like the Lite Edition.
If you’re still using Windows 11, they’re still collecting your data. Sure, no need to give them more, but maybe that’s the push you need to move elsewhere. There are really good options.
I don’t know any of the alternatives that have similar UI to the Windows Mail app
But it is possible to get back the old Windows Mail app by obtaining the dumped package file for the app (either by looking for it online or leeching it from the official Microsoft Store website using store.adguard.ru) and then install it using Powershell
At least that’s what I do with one of my systems running Windows 10 LTSC, since that version of Windows doesn’t came with Windows Mail and MS Store pre-installed
Thank you for actually reading my comment and suggesting something appropriate! I’ll have to figure out how to get the package file myself, thanks!
I’ve been paying for mailspring for a few years now, and I love it. It has touch and gesture support, is open source, and is available on Windows, MacOS, and Linux.
Its paid plan includes some nice features like email tracking - which you can’t really get from just a simple client and (needs a server to track who has opened an email and when) - and id lookup, for things like quickly seeing the LinkedIn profile of a sender not in your contacts list.
Definitely my favorite desktop client by a wide margin, and one I would recommend wholeheartedly.
Edit: Just to be clear, it’s available for free as well.
Is it a local-only client, or does it download email on their cloud servers first?
Thank you for actually reading my comment and suggesting something appropriate, though I’m not convinced by the UI images. I’ll have to test the touch support myself, but I’ll check it out.
While I don’t use it like that myself, the website touts “touch and gesture support”, so I’m assuming there’s something in there.
It is free, so give it a shot - maybe it’ll scratch your itch!
Wino Mail has a pretty good UI similar to the Mail app. You can find it in the Store.
Thank you for actually reading my comment and suggesting something appropriate instead of whatever gets you the most karma (“use thunderbird/Linux!”).
I’ve been using Thunderbird since forever. It’s not perfect but I like it better than bloated and laggy Outlook.
But better for touch and simpler than windows mail?
I am only using Outlook for work email.
If by “better for touch” you mean a phone app: no, Thunderbird is for your computer. In Android I can recommend FairEmail.
No, I mean like windows mail app for windows. A large screen app that can easily used with only touch. Like I said in my first comment.
Failing to read my comments and just answering the questions you want to answer is not helpful.
Sorry I missed that. I don’t think you’ll ever be happy using Windows on a touch device though. Too much relies on the traditional UX pattern, especially third-party applications.
I thought Thunderbird was getting increasingly shitty and slower/clunky, until I realised it was actually my ISP’s mail server getting increasingly shit. This became immediately obvious the day that emails started taking 12-18 hours to land in my inbox. Reallllll handy for those time limited account reset emails. Funnily enough, they were planning real soon to outsource their email to another company for the low, low cost of just a few extra dollars a month, opt in now!
Transferred my IMAP inbox to my own domain, everything is now awesome again.
Of course it is, it doesn’t support pop3, only IMAP through their server
Yeah no shit, and you do think I have a single goddamn bit of influence over my corporation’s choice of email client??
They can leech all the data they want from my employer. I don’t give a fuck. Never use company assets for personal business as an addendum.
Just be a little more careful with your own stuff, s’all.
Depends on your sector of work. Imagine you’re a therapist or a lawyer…
A lot of healthcare and education institutions use Outlook as well, so I wouldn’t be surprised if mental health or legal uses it too. There may be rules about what kind of client/student/patient information can be sent over email, and often there are healthcare/institution specific variants of the office suites which (are supposed to) meet regulatory requirements
I think the other comment applies regardless. Do work things on the work device/account and let the workplace handle any other concerns. When it comes time to discuss alternatives, you can make a case for something else
“I heard you like data collection so we put data collecting email app in your data collecting OS so we can collect data about our data collection”
What part of Windows (or Microsoft software in general) is not a data collection service?
If you aren’t using an insider edition then Notepad is still safe
… for now. They’ve already replaced the old Notepad with a bloated UWP version, so it probably won’t be long before it starts sending telemetry as well.
bloated?
I think then new Notepad is just perfectly fine.
The tabs are nice, but I notice it takes 3x as long to open (TBF it’s still under a second) and take up 10x the memory (12MB vs 1.2MB), for basically doing the same thing as the old version.
