• TheFogan@programming.dev
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        17 days ago

        Fortunately in criminal trials if the Jury can return a not guilty verdict, that’s game over for the states case. Double jeopardy they can’t retry.

        Now if one guy on the Jury opposes a guilty verdict, and no verdict is reached, then the state can retry.

        • NewNewAccount@lemmy.world
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          17 days ago

          I mean… it does seem pretty fair? If the jury is hung it’s up to the state to retry. If the jury comes back not guilty then that’s the end of it.

      • Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world
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        17 days ago

        And here’s your 12 jury members…

        Oh, it’s Mark Cuban, Mark Zuckerburg, Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, Bill Gates, Rupert Murdoch,

        …I could keep this joke going if I used google, but is it sad that I could name 6 people by memory just by using the parameters “Rich asshole who would have no empathy for the general public, and would absolutely convict”?

            • 14th_cylon@lemm.ee
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              16 days ago

              I am not going to watch 70 minutes movie, but according to brief skimming through the discussion it’s about business practice of the Microsoft from times of windows 3.11

              I am talking about his today’s undeniable philantropic work and the fact is he is really far from the rest of the people on your list.

              People are allowed to evolve and if every billionaire in the world would evolve I’m the same direction he did, world would be better place.

              • Duamerthrax@lemmy.world
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                16 days ago

                It’s a podcast and you can listen while doing other things. 70 minutes isn’t very long.

                You can deny his recent philanthropic work because his libertarian mentality corrupts it. He helped fund covid 19 vaccine research, but also demanded that the patents not be released, so profit could be made. This is in direct contrast to the lead scientist of the poli vaccine opening it up for anyone to make, comparing the ownership of a vaccine to trying to own sunlight.

                While there’s evidence that Gates did not participate in Epstein’s parties, he did know about and choose to stay silent.

                Gates is a full blown elite larping as a humanitarian when the role of his foundation should be occupied by a tax funded gov org.

        • granolabar@kbin.melroy.org
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          17 days ago

          it would have to be 12 CEOs but they deff aint got to be proper owner oligarch… just scrape some middling f500 roaster with some “nonames”

          but yes valid point… but defense can generally strike some of these.

          this guy going to need proper counsel, I am assuming fun raising won’t be an issue. he deserves the best.

          coupled with proper PR campaign on socials since TV will try to destroy him.

          this jury must not convict because the glove don’t fit hehe

          • Norin@lemmy.world
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            17 days ago

            Plenty of lawyers, at least some of them talented, will offer to defend him for free.

            It could make their career.

            • granolabar@kbin.melroy.org
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              17 days ago

              defense of this scale will require several million dollars, nobody will do that for free.

              also, defending this guy will make you enemy of the owner class. top talent will opt out.

  • u/lukmly013 💾 (lemmy.sdf.org)@lemmy.sdf.org
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    17 days ago

    He also had a three-page handwritten manifesto that included grievances with the US healthcare system, a document that spoke to the suspect’s “motivation and mindset”, officials said.

    Publish it then.

    • granolabar@kbin.melroy.org
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      17 days ago

      Check out parallel construction concept…

      He didn’t… They found where he dispose of it and gave to police to plant on him so we have to accept he is the perp…

      You can get creative with who “they” are here btw

      BC if you got murdered they would never do this.

      Also he left a dead man switch for YouTube upload.

    • FireRetardant@lemmy.world
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      17 days ago

      Maybe plotting how to dispose of it, perhaps extra paranoid with how much he blew up. Unfortunately all the memes of him probably helped spread the search for him. Not everyone who saw a meme agreed with his actions.

      • alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml
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        17 days ago

        It was a ghost gun, he could have thrown it into any ditch and not have it traced back to him.

        • FireRetardant@lemmy.world
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          17 days ago

          He’d probably be ditching more than just that. He could be caught on a security camera disposing of it which could give further clues. He may also had no intention of disposal and intended to keep the firearm.

          • alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml
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            17 days ago

            There are not security cameras all the way.

            He may also had no intention of disposal

            The whole point of a ghost gun is to be able to throw it away and have it not traced back to you.

            • FireRetardant@lemmy.world
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              16 days ago

              Private security footage could have caught him disposing, someone could have witnessess and grabbed another photo of him using his their cell phone. He could be worried about finger prints on the gun or other biological clues. And if a ghost gun is so untraceable, keeping it after a crime shouldn’t be proof, because how do you prove it was this ghost gun used in the crime? He could claim he just keeps it for self defense or was interested in how far 3D printed tech has come

              He could be planning another assassination or desire to keep the weapon for self defense purposes. I think you are downplaying the parannoia that would come with such a large scale manhunt accompanied with becoming an internet meme spreading your photo and awareness of your act over night. Paranoia makes you constantly think “but what if?” And that paranoia is even stronger in an extreme circumstance like this.

              The fact is, we may never know why he kept it.

              • Laurel Raven@lemmy.zip
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                15 days ago

                Even without serial number, a ghost gun will leave rifling marks on the bullets which can be compared by firing the gun into ballistic gel

    • AnyOldName3@lemmy.world
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      17 days ago

      In other threads, people have suggested that he might be carrying the manifesto in case he was shot and killed if/when arrested.

  • underwire212@lemm.ee
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    17 days ago

    There’s a picture of him holding a McD happy meal?? He had the gun and manifesto just laying there in his backpack? You f’ing kidding??

    Some elite fucks used an advanced AI search algorithm to search a bunch of people who vaguely looked like him. Input term search for social media and ‘reviews’ to further narrow down until you find someone who has a few tweets and posts that the media can point to say “yup hey look, he liked Kzynski’s manifesto on goodreads…got the guy!”. Plant evidence, and you got your scapegoat.

    This poor kids’ life is ruined. And he will probably be threatened if he doesn’t plead guilty and waive jury trial. He’ll get a visit from the MIB threatening to skin his family alive in front of him if he doesn’t play along.

        • the_crotch@sh.itjust.works
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          16 days ago

          He was an ivy league grad, vacations in Bali, and his family owns a country club and a chain of nursing homes. He almost certainly has more money than the guy he shot.

          • TopRamenBinLaden@sh.itjust.works
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            16 days ago

            No way that he personally had more money than the CEO, from just looking at his work history. Maybe his whole family has more money than the CEO, but if we compared whole families against each other, the CEOs family would still come out on top.

            • the_crotch@sh.itjust.works
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              16 days ago

              He was CEO, not founder. The dude was only worth around $50 million. The shooters family owns a country club and an entire chain of nursing homes. They almost certainly have more money, probably a lot more money.

              I can’t answer your other questions. Perhaps the answers will be in his manifesto.

    • workerONE@lemmy.world
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      17 days ago

      Reading these fantasy takes is exhausting. It’s hard to want to be a part of a community that supports this guy by gaslighting everyone, saying things like “it’s not the same guy in the four photos!” Just hundreds of people all convinced they can secure this guys freedom by acting dumb and face blind- you’ve created a whole fictional scenario here that’s just unbelievable and unrealistic.

      If he didn’t want to get caught he shouldn’t have left DNA all over, shouldn’t have taken off his mask, shouldn’t be carrying the murder weapon days later… He could have helped himself but instead there’s an army of idiots who are probably just creating this fan fiction to impress their peers. It’s very childish though. This guy tried to do something which is commendable, or maybe he’s just mentally ill, but I’m just tired of reading all this nonsense. Who are you signalling to?

      • Cethin@lemmy.zip
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        17 days ago

        To be fair, people were posting actors who look like the very shitty pictures we have of the guy too, and I buy some of them. Honestly, the picture we have looks more like Timothée Chalamet than this guy. I’m not saying it isn’t this guy, or it is Chalamet, but there’s a shit ton of people in this world, and a lot look like the shooter.

          • Cethin@lemmy.zip
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            17 days ago

            They’re going to have to take it to court and provide evidence. Trust is what you give to someone without the need for evidence. If they can prove it, then sure I’ll believe it. I’m not just going to trust that they’re correct without that though.

            • OfficerBribe@lemm.ee
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              16 days ago

              Is there a reason to think there will be no trial and this guy by some reason will end up in some CIA black site without trial?

              I just find it interesting that someone who has absolutely no trust in authorities does not have a theory that court can be influenced by the same authorities.

              • rumba@lemmy.zip
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                16 days ago

                end up in some CIA black site without trial?

                No, he’d end up Epsteined. If the evidence were a plant, he’d be of no use to them alive.

          • Dupree878@lemmy.world
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            16 days ago

            Even if they proved it was him it doesn’t matter. When OJ was acquitted, Jurors admitted they did it as a fuck you to the LAPD and justice system.

        • Ilovethebomb@lemm.ee
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          16 days ago

          If you look at a photo of the guy taken from above him, so a similar angle to the surveillance camera, he looks very similar. I do think it’s him.

      • underwire212@lemm.ee
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        17 days ago

        I understand where you’re coming from. I was in your shoes about 15 years ago, hearing about “crazy conspiracies” or perspectives like mine and dismissing them as baseless and ‘fantasy’.

        My brother/sister, let me be crystal clear—both to you and anyone else who happens to read this: unless you’ve worked in my field, which I can say with near certainty you haven’t, then you haven’t seen, witnessed, or experienced the things I have.

        I say this in all seriousness: these people have unimaginable resources and capabilities. They possess the willpower and determination to execute plans like the ones I’ve described—and far, far worse. I’ve seen far more extreme measures taken for far less than what might be perceived as even a minor threat to the capitalist power structure. They’ve invested immense effort into building and maintaining this system, and I can tell you from personal experience that they’ll go to great lengths to protect it. This is not some wild fantasy or baseless conspiracy theory—it’s entirely within the realm of possibility, and is our reality.

        That said, I completely understand and respect your skepticism. I wouldn’t blame you if you don’t believe me. In fact, I’d expect you not to. Why should you? I’m just an anonymous person behind a pseudonym on a random discussion board, and I have no concrete evidence to present—only my word.

        Take from this what you will.

        • nomous@lemmy.world
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          16 days ago

          unless you’ve worked in my field, which I can say with near certainty you haven’t, then you haven’t seen, witnessed, or experienced the things I have

          I’ll bite, what field are you in?

      • boonhet@lemm.ee
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        17 days ago

        I posted this elsewhere, but this is one of the few times I buy the conspiracy theory, not the official story.

        Dude pulls off a targeted assassination, gets away clean, trolls the cops with a bag of monopoly money, gets out of the state, stays essentially hidden for almost a week… And then gets clocked by some poor maccas employee and gets taken in with a manifesto AND a gun on his person?

        It’s the nazi flag and 3 copies of The Sims all over again, except this time the folks doing it are slightly more competent and actually pulled it off.

        This case is so important, so high profile, that they just need to arrest someone ASAP. Anyone. And that person is not in for a good time.

        • fluxion@lemmy.world
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          16 days ago

          His face jas been plastered everywhere for the past week. My YouTube home page literally had 3-4 thumbnails of his face on every reload. Lemmy…X…news sites…massive exposure.

          So yah…some random worker notices his face looks kind of similar while he’s dining at his favorite spot and bam. Don’t forget there was a $10k bounty, plenty of fast food workers might be itching to collect on something like that.

          He probably figured once he was questioned about anything that they’d eventually get him so he prepared for that scenario. Or maybe this wasn’t even his last stop on his triple-D tour so he was still geared up.

          We’ll see him in court. If he’s innocent then he make a pretty good argument and then we can decide whether to raise eyebrows but this all just seems Q-anon levels of silly right now.

        • TheObviousSolution@lemm.ee
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          16 days ago

          There’s a simple explanation: He wanted to keep on the move, and he wanted to be able to take down other targets.

    • Ilovethebomb@lemm.ee
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      16 days ago

      What would “the elites” stand to gain from framing this dude, while the actual killer is still on the loose?

      This is pretty unhinged, to be honest.

      • Bruncvik@lemmy.world
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        16 days ago

        The killer is not as dangerous as the approval for his act. The government wants to prevent copycat vigilantes by making an example out of him. Regardless whether this guy is guilty or not, they’ll drag him through the deepest mud and then string him up with the harshest possible sentence, to discourage others from gunning down CEOs.

      • underwire212@lemm.ee
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        16 days ago

        Yeah, I get that. However, the optics of having a successful “martyr” symbol is very, very dangerous. A wide scope of narrative means difficult to control. Difficult to control introduces “motivator to action” symbols among a, I think, specific (and quite populous) demographic (think of all the young males with zero purpose, waiting to seize on an opportunity for a real life Mr Robot, for example)… “well if he could do it, get away with it, AND become a ’hero’, what’s stopping me from doing the same?”

        Having someone, anyone, buys time to craft the narrative and gauge public sentiment and, most importantly, dampen the probability of a revolutionary ’spark’ if you will.

        Obviously we don’t have enough information here. It very well could be the dude they have in custody. I am only sharing one possible theory based off my experience and observations. And there are a number of very suspect observations here that are in line with narrative management.

      • A Phlaming Phoenix@lemm.ee
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        16 days ago

        I’m not adopting the conspiracy here, but if they can’t find the shooter with the whole country getting behind him, then they would want the optics of finding the shooter. Which could backfire, of course. It would be very telling, for example, if the cops got real confident about it and then the real shooter made some kind of public display with the false shooter in custody.

        • TopRamenBinLaden@sh.itjust.works
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          16 days ago

          This was my thought process, too. If they got a framed guy here, the actual CEO killer would likely or hopefully do something else to let the public know that they were still out there.

        • Ilovethebomb@lemm.ee
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          16 days ago

          Yeah, thats part of the reason I don’t buy it. If the actual killer acts again, it will be very embarrassing for the police.

    • Railcar8095@lemm.ee
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      16 days ago

      I think he knew he was going to get caught. Words on bullets, monopoly money… It’s trying to make the story larger and larger. Pretty sure he will make a show in front of the jury.

      I don’t know if that will work, but I respect that more than he killed the pig without making clear why.

    • Queen HawlSera@lemm.ee
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      17 days ago

      You can’t convince me this is the real shooter, this guy looks more like Skeet from Jimmy Neutron than the “Grin Reaper” in the now famous pic

      • GreenKnight23@lemmy.world
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        17 days ago

        I said this to many folks IRL, the guy the NYPD charges will not be the shooter. just some poor sap that gets sent to prison for life because he had a dissenting opinion.

        it’s the high price we pay to keep them in power.

  • taiyang@lemmy.world
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    17 days ago

    You know, is said he worked UI at Firaxia from '15 to '17, which first made me think he worked on Civ VI, but then more likely Xcom Chimera Squad?

    You don’t get that job without having some interest in games. I hope it turns out he actually played Assassin’s Creed and is intentionally pulling an Ezio look, smile and all.

  • FarFarAway@startrek.website
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    17 days ago

    Does everyone still feel the same if he turns out to be a neoreactionary / accelerationist?

    Per The San Francisco Standard

    Mangione gave Ted Kaczynski’s book “Industrial Society and Its Future” four out of five stars, writing that the man known as the Unabomber was “rightfully imprisoned” for “maiming innocent people” but noting that his actions were “those of an extreme political revolutionary.”

    Mangione’s social media accounts paint a picture of a tech enthusiast with a soft spot for conservative thinkers. He has retweeted posts from right-wing capitalists like Peter Thiel and lists an applauding biography of Elon Musk as one of his favorites on GoodReads.

    • Noxy@yiffit.net
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      16 days ago

      yeah but if it turns out this is the guy, I think actions speak louder than words.

      • FarFarAway@startrek.website
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        16 days ago

        It could just be the tech culture he was around, and not the actual reasoning. Guess we’ll have to wait and see.

    • chobeat@lemmy.mlOP
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      16 days ago

      At that age I had similar ideas. This didn’t stop me from turning as leftist as it gets. Anyway it is all irrelevant. He did firebomb the walmart, he did the redacted and that’s enough to absolve him from any leftist sin. Don’t you dare turn this into yet another culture war.

      • FarFarAway@startrek.website
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        16 days ago

        Fair take. That wasn’t my intention, although, now, I suppose that maybe a natural progression.

        I admit, there is definitely a disconnect, considering his actions, but, I really am torn on the idea. I guess, I question that if (and big if) his intention is to build this type of future, would his actions be enough to make others sympathetic to his cause? If, or at what point, people turn away?

        • chobeat@lemmy.mlOP
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          16 days ago

          I’m Italian. We had a long season of leftist terrorism with popular support. People started feeling alienated when they kidnapped and killed the centrist prime minister because he wanted to ally with the Left. Kneecapping dozens of CEOS just won the terrorists more and more support.

          Also sympathy to causes is different from power. We should be concerned less with how an action impacts public opinions and more on how it impacts power structures, potential for action and mobilization.

          • FarFarAway@startrek.website
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            16 days ago

            The future vice president of America is close with the leaders of the neoreactionary movement. I suppose, I wonder if a positive public opinion would make it easier for them to mobilize.

            Edit: ending up with support from both sides of the isle.

    • Railcar8095@lemm.ee
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      16 days ago

      Yes. I don’t understand why the right will excuse pedophilia and mass murder, but the left will throw somebody under the bus if the follow the wrong person on shitter.

      Applaud the actions, do not create a hero. Nobody will live up to those expectations for everybody.

      • Uriel238 [all pronouns]@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        16 days ago

        Because the transnational white power movement believes in loyalty over principle like any other dangerous cult. If you are an ally, you could eat children and would still be favored.

        And if you’re in the outgroup, then they pretend as if you eat children.

        They’re not interested in governance but culling the population, so they’re choosing people who are unpersoned by fiat.

        If we wanted something different, we shouldn’t have voted in the monarchists. Now King Heron is in power and it’s frog-eating season.

    • Uriel238 [all pronouns]@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      16 days ago

      Have you seen his abs?

      Besides which, it’s difficult to say violence is wrong when we tolerate apatheticly so much systemic violence.

      And with the new administration we’re expecting to see so much more with mass deportations and killing our already meager social safety nets.

      We’re always three skipped meals from mass riots that overwhelm responders. It’s an exciting time to be alive.

      • FarFarAway@startrek.website
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        16 days ago

        And then there’s that, haha.

        It does seem that everything is hanging from a thread. It’s a completely valid response to just say, F- it, and watch the world burn.

    • turtle [he/him]@lemm.ee
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      17 days ago

      Careful, in case you haven’t heard, discussing jury nullification is apparently against the rules of lemmy.world. SMH (at lemmy.world admins).

      • Rivalarrival@lemmy.today
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        17 days ago

        They are certainly empowered to do that, just as I am empowered to block any instance I don’t want to participate in. If they are not tolerant and respectful of my beliefs (even if they don’t share them) then I don’t want to contribute to their community either.

        Layperson juries are a fundamental component of criminal justice. The law exists to serve the people, not the lawyers, not the government. Rejecting jurors for understanding the purpose of having a layperson jury fundamentally violates the rights of the accused in particular, and society in general.

      • Duamerthrax@lemmy.world
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        17 days ago

        I’m not sure that’s true. I’ve had plenty of comments stay up. My guess is either the mod team got their shit together or those comments were deleted for other reasons.

      • zkfcfbzr@lemmy.world
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        17 days ago

        The pinned post on lemmy.world right now clarifies that discussing jury nullification for crimes that have already happened, such as this, is perfectly acceptable. It’s only discussing it with respect to crimes which have not yet been committed which is against the TOS.

        • PapaStevesy@lemmy.world
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          17 days ago

          Wait, we got a Future Crimes Division? I didn’t know .world was run by a bunch of milky precogs…

          • SreudianFlip@sh.itjust.works
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            17 days ago

            If you plan some violence and include jury nullification as some viable part of the plan, and publish that shit online, not only is it kind of useless and lousy opsec, but it will attract heat that is unwanted and unnecessary. It’s literally a conspiracy to undermine nullification at that point, like a false flag. So no, don’t do that, and I back the mods on this.

        • turtle [he/him]@lemm.ee
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          17 days ago

          If you trust them after having enforced an unwritten policy and still not allowing discussion of something that’s perfectly legal.

      • Rivalarrival@lemmy.today
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        17 days ago

        I like that, but there is a major problem with it, and it’s around 2:49 in the video:

        Do you have any beliefs that might prevent you from making a decision based strictly on the law?

        Grey suggests that saying “No” with intent to nullify is lying, and therefore perjury. He is wrong. Where legislated law and constitutional law come into conflict (and they do in all cases of nullification), it is your duty to strictly follow constitutional law. You must judge the case as a layperson. You are constitutionally obligated to follow your own sense of rationality. That means if legislated law provides an undesirable outcome, you are obligated to “strictly follow [constitutional] law”, and refuse to convict under a lower law.

        I can honestly claim to have no beliefs that would prevent me from making a decision based strictly on the law. The 6th Amendment is part of the law, and the 6th amendment requires and empowers me (as a juror) to make whatever decision I determine is appropriate.

          • Rivalarrival@lemmy.today
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            17 days ago

            We aren’t talking about the decision. We are talking about voir dire. You certainly can be charged and convicted of perjury if you lie during voir dire.

            But again: it is not a lie to remember that the 6th Amendment is part of the law, and, if in conflict with any legislated law, supersedes that law.

            • AtariDump@lemmy.world
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              16 days ago

              We are talking about voir dire.

              Wait, that isn’t just a term from “My Cousin Vinny”‽

          • Rivalarrival@lemmy.today
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            17 days ago

            And they would respond “You are excused, with our thanks”.

            Don’t get creative. The only correct answer is “no”.

            • antlion@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              17 days ago

              I had half a day to think about it when they were selecting jury for a DUI case. I’d rather speak my mind freely for the jurors they’ve already selected, who are present during the full selection process. Normally one might think context doesn’t matter but DUI laws can also apply to a bicycle, which is a perfect candidate for being nullified by the jury.

  • Josey_Wales@lemmy.world
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    17 days ago

    Is he repped yet? If not and anyone knows how to get in touch with his people please contact me. I have a line on a few free attorneys that take cases of this magnitude.

    • jordanlund@lemmy.world
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      17 days ago

      He comes from money, he won’t be needing free legal help.

      https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp9nxee2r0do

      "He attended a private, all-boys high school in Baltimore, called the Gilman School, according to school officials. Mr Mangione was named as the valedictorian, which is usually the student with the highest academic achievements in a class.

      He comes from a prominent family in the Baltimore area whose businesses include a country club and nursing homes, according to local media.

      He is reportedly the cousin of Republican state lawmaker Nino Mangione."

    • Coreidan@lemmy.world
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      17 days ago

      Nice nothing better than a free lawyer off the internet to defend you in a murder case. I can’t imagine that ever going wrong.

      • Josey_Wales@lemmy.world
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        17 days ago

        Hey genius… Ben Crump is a free lawyer off the internet. Maybe instead of shooting down offers to help you take your head out of your ass.

        Any paid Manhattan attorney has more in common with the CEO. This guy needs a real street fighter. Not some prissy bitch.