I try not to get to political because there are two sides to every story especially regarding gender since it inherently should not be a political issue at all but…
Good, we should not have any kind of gender reassignment treatments or surgery’s until the brain is %100 developed and the person can be %100 sure it is there life long decision and understand all the consequences. You know like with any contract, major life decision or medical decision.
This has the potential to alter developing minds and there politically biased parents do not have the ability to make a proper medical decision. Half the time they don’t have the ability to make proper life saving choices let alone elective surgeries/treatments.
You know damn well this isn’t about surgery. It’s about hormones, and it says so right there in the summary. You didn’t even have to click the link. Nobody is doing breast implants on trans minors (only on cis minors, which is perfectly fine for some reason).
Forcing a trans kid to go through the wrong puberty even though they know they are trans is extremely traumatic. It’s life ruining. It alters the voice, the shape of the torso, the shape of the face, and facial and body hair in ways that either can’t be fixed at all, or can only be fixed with expensive surgeries later on.
And if you want people to be absolutely sure about their status before going on hormone replacement therapy, then that is exactly what puberty blockers are for. Leuprorelin prevents puberty so that the kid can figure themself out for a year or two, and then make sure they go through the correct puberty. Even if they decide not to be transgender in the end, they can just go off leuprorelin and start puberty.
Quite frankly IDGAF, it is going to alter the kids minds and body and I trust absolutely nobody on this planet to make that decision without bias and political interference and influence. And the amount of people who legitimately need these hormones is far far less than the people who will be given politically motivated or poorly informed or poorly thought out, you are risking an epidemic of the exact thing you are trying to avoid. This is unethical and should not be politicized.
Why are we debating this at all, shouldn’t it be the decision of the parents? You don’t agree, that’s fine, you can tell your kids no. If someone else looks at the evidence and believes it’s true, and believes this is hugely beneficial to their kid, why should the government have a say in their kid’s medical treatment?
This is a separate topic, and a big fucking no. You assume parents actually know what’s best for their kids and want that, but look around, most of these people voting for these bans are parents as well.
Parents can’t and shouldn’t be blindly trusted.
If someone else looks at the evidence and believes it’s true, and believes this is hugely beneficial to their kid, why should the government have a say in their kid’s medical treatment?
And if the parent thinks otherwise where it is legal?
Obviously it would only be if the doctors and parents approved together. Point being, the government is stepping in and overriding my parental rights and my doctor’s recommendation just because someone else does not agree.
And I don’t see parents voting for bans, none of these have been initiatives. These are law makers.
Yes, definitely agree it should require the doctor to approve as well, and the child should also consent. The point is that the government is interfering with both parents and doctors by stepping in. Feels very much like your body, my choice here.
Parents are the absolute worst people to make decisions of their children’s medical decisions they are just the default, in a perfect world we would have a body of politically isolated experts determining medical decisions for children. But we don’t live in that world so until we do we should have as few elective medical treatment’s on children as possible.
By politically isolated I’m going to assume you just mean conversion therapists who will try to convince children they are not gay or trans. Because if you’re not giving them affirmative care and listening to them the alternative is denying them.
Conversion therapy kills people. That’s what it does. That’s all it does. It is NOT possible to stop someone from being gay or trans. It has never been shown to be possible in any fucking way. Conversion therapy does not work, has never worked, and is equivalent in mental distress to severe psychological torture. It frequently involves physical and sexual assault. It involves emotional abuse and manipulation. All in service of forcing us to conform. This is the alternative. If you’re against affirmative care this is what you’re for. Think about telling these people that what happened to them was right. Think about going to the lived ones of people who took their lives while undergoing conversion therapy. Think about telling them that what happened is right and should be legal. This is what you’re advocating for. This is the side that you’re on.
This is exactly why I am luck to have citizenship so we can emigrate to the UK. My daughter is queer (not trans, but they will come for all queer people eventually) and the UK is working to outlaw conversion therapy.
I wish I could take every queer person, especially every trans person, with us.
Are you sure about the UK squid? Wasn’t there a huge ordeal there for not extending the conversion therapy ban to transgender care? That’s what I had read.
My daughter is not transgender. She defines herself (at 14, she’s still figuring things out) as omnisexual, but she’s only ever been interested in girls.
And yeah, they’ll go after the trans people first, but they won’t stop there.
We have this in every country. In America it’s called the American Medical Association. It’s been invented already. There’s even specific subgroups and organizations of doctors and such that advocate for people who have particular problems and troubles, like the Multiple Sclerosis Research Society, the World Professional Association for Transgender Health, and the American Stroke Organization. These things exist and they help people.
But you think I’m an AI, don’tcha? I’m not even snidely insulting you in this one. I’m trying to help in good faith.
Then again, you’re not here in good faith, so what can I do?
(The answer is to keep this here in case anyone is reading in good faith, and they can benefit from this comment. Guess I’m not really writing about you at all.)
You’re against things that alter kids minds and bodies? Like puberty? Well luckily there’s a way to stop that! Puberty blockers, which have been safely used for decades and are considered a medical necessity by WPATH as well as many other health organizations!
Dude stop spouting off with these thought crimes. Stop usibg ur brain and thinking for yourself. Do as ur told believe what ur told to. Be a good little sheep like everyone else. Otherwise your a fascist
I did not say I am not going to. the point of that statement is to point out how abnormal it is for me to weigh in on a political issue and how egregious I believe this to be, and I absolutely do not care if it is right left up or down, this should not be politicized, it is human experimentation.
Or do you think trans people just pop out of thin air as fully grown adults? You understand that trans people once were kids like everybody else right? And finally have you ever spoken to a transgender person and ask what it is like growing up trans? All these ignorant morons fearmonger like this therapy is pushed onto unknowing kids and parents, presented like it is a cool video game. Guess what, people actively seek this therapy for their kids or themselves because they know what it is doing, it stops unwanted sexual features to develop, and it is reversible.
Hey, I just like how you picked out your name. It’s a compliment. Why do you gotta be so toxic about yourself? Is it the brain full of hatred? I bet it’s the brain full of hatred.
Best of luck with *gestures at everything*.
Consider possibly not making trans peoples’ lives harder, yeah? Don’t contribute to that.
Hey, chum, I’m just trying to be uplifting, you wanna come at me with fights, I’m trying to give you a compliment. No wonder you’re not getting laid if you try to fight every woman who says something nice about you.
Ok, and you can trust politicians parents and children to choose the right gender? We have the same choice no matter if we ban or allow this, the only differences is:
Politically motivated people can weigh in.
the amount of people suffering right now is overwhelmingly lower than the people who have the potential to be misgendered and given the wrong drugs.
Holy shit you have absolutely no idea what the fuck you’re talking about, so please shut the fuck up about your uninformed personal opinions.
Puberty blockers only delay the onset of puberty until you stop taking them, at which point development resumes normally with far less downsides than the risk of developing undesired sex characteristics. So no, this is not “the same choice no matter if we ban or allow this.” The same choice would be starting actual sex hormones; puberty blockers are the middle ground here.
Banning puberty blockers is politically motivated actors putting their politics above people’s bodily autonomy and medical professionals’ ability to make medically informed decisions.
You’re flat out wrong that allowing doctors to prescribe puberty blockers would cause risk of greater suffering in such a way as to make it abundantly clear that you don’t know what those meds actually do.
I was a transgender child. Going through forced puberty led me to attempt suicide at 14 15 and 18. Parts of my body are covered in self-harm scars due in large part to the utter repulsion I felt at the effects of testosterone on my body. I became an alcoholic at 16, and an oxycontin addict by the time I was 20.
I am extremely lucky to be alive. I have had to spend tens of thousands of dollars undoing the harm testosterone did to me and some things I never will. I could have avoided all of this if I had had access to puberty blockers.
Is forcing us to go through what I went through humane? When a real treatment exists right there? When studies show a less than 1% rate of regret for gender affirmative care for minors? Do you realize you are forcing children to go through what I went through? Do you realize not every child will survive? Do you realize you’re supporting causes that kill children?
Many hugs friend. I remember the immense feelings of disgust, confusion, and frustration when I started bleeding at 10 years old and began developing breasts. I didn’t want any of that. It felt so unnatural. I suffered a lot of health problems from hitting puberty so early, and ironically puberty blockers would have been an effective treatment but they either didn’t exist or simply weren’t offered back in those days.
I try not to get to political because there are two sides to every story especially regarding gender since it inherently should not be a political issue at all but…
Good, we should not have any kind of gender reassignment treatments or surgery’s until the brain is %100 developed and the person can be %100 sure it is there life long decision and understand all the consequences. You know like with any contract, major life decision or medical decision.
This has the potential to alter developing minds and there politically biased parents do not have the ability to make a proper medical decision. Half the time they don’t have the ability to make proper life saving choices let alone elective surgeries/treatments.
You know damn well this isn’t about surgery. It’s about hormones, and it says so right there in the summary. You didn’t even have to click the link. Nobody is doing breast implants on trans minors (only on cis minors, which is perfectly fine for some reason).
Forcing a trans kid to go through the wrong puberty even though they know they are trans is extremely traumatic. It’s life ruining. It alters the voice, the shape of the torso, the shape of the face, and facial and body hair in ways that either can’t be fixed at all, or can only be fixed with expensive surgeries later on.
And if you want people to be absolutely sure about their status before going on hormone replacement therapy, then that is exactly what puberty blockers are for. Leuprorelin prevents puberty so that the kid can figure themself out for a year or two, and then make sure they go through the correct puberty. Even if they decide not to be transgender in the end, they can just go off leuprorelin and start puberty.
Quite frankly IDGAF, it is going to alter the kids minds and body and I trust absolutely nobody on this planet to make that decision without bias and political interference and influence. And the amount of people who legitimately need these hormones is far far less than the people who will be given politically motivated or poorly informed or poorly thought out, you are risking an epidemic of the exact thing you are trying to avoid. This is unethical and should not be politicized.
Why are we debating this at all, shouldn’t it be the decision of the parents? You don’t agree, that’s fine, you can tell your kids no. If someone else looks at the evidence and believes it’s true, and believes this is hugely beneficial to their kid, why should the government have a say in their kid’s medical treatment?
This is a separate topic, and a big fucking no. You assume parents actually know what’s best for their kids and want that, but look around, most of these people voting for these bans are parents as well.
Parents can’t and shouldn’t be blindly trusted.
And if the parent thinks otherwise where it is legal?
Kids aren’t the parents’ property.
Obviously it would only be if the doctors and parents approved together. Point being, the government is stepping in and overriding my parental rights and my doctor’s recommendation just because someone else does not agree.
And I don’t see parents voting for bans, none of these have been initiatives. These are law makers.
No it should not be the decision of the parents, it should be the decision of the patient and their doctors.
Yes, definitely agree it should require the doctor to approve as well, and the child should also consent. The point is that the government is interfering with both parents and doctors by stepping in. Feels very much like your body, my choice here.
Parents are the absolute worst people to make decisions of their children’s medical decisions they are just the default, in a perfect world we would have a body of politically isolated experts determining medical decisions for children. But we don’t live in that world so until we do we should have as few elective medical treatment’s on children as possible.
By politically isolated I’m going to assume you just mean conversion therapists who will try to convince children they are not gay or trans. Because if you’re not giving them affirmative care and listening to them the alternative is denying them.
Conversion therapy kills people. That’s what it does. That’s all it does. It is NOT possible to stop someone from being gay or trans. It has never been shown to be possible in any fucking way. Conversion therapy does not work, has never worked, and is equivalent in mental distress to severe psychological torture. It frequently involves physical and sexual assault. It involves emotional abuse and manipulation. All in service of forcing us to conform. This is the alternative. If you’re against affirmative care this is what you’re for. Think about telling these people that what happened to them was right. Think about going to the lived ones of people who took their lives while undergoing conversion therapy. Think about telling them that what happened is right and should be legal. This is what you’re advocating for. This is the side that you’re on.
This is exactly why I am luck to have citizenship so we can emigrate to the UK. My daughter is queer (not trans, but they will come for all queer people eventually) and the UK is working to outlaw conversion therapy.
I wish I could take every queer person, especially every trans person, with us.
Are you sure about the UK squid? Wasn’t there a huge ordeal there for not extending the conversion therapy ban to transgender care? That’s what I had read.
My daughter is not transgender. She defines herself (at 14, she’s still figuring things out) as omnisexual, but she’s only ever been interested in girls.
And yeah, they’ll go after the trans people first, but they won’t stop there.
We have this in every country. In America it’s called the American Medical Association. It’s been invented already. There’s even specific subgroups and organizations of doctors and such that advocate for people who have particular problems and troubles, like the Multiple Sclerosis Research Society, the World Professional Association for Transgender Health, and the American Stroke Organization. These things exist and they help people.
But you think I’m an AI, don’tcha? I’m not even snidely insulting you in this one. I’m trying to help in good faith.
Then again, you’re not here in good faith, so what can I do?
(The answer is to keep this here in case anyone is reading in good faith, and they can benefit from this comment. Guess I’m not really writing about you at all.)
You’re against things that alter kids minds and bodies? Like puberty? Well luckily there’s a way to stop that! Puberty blockers, which have been safely used for decades and are considered a medical necessity by WPATH as well as many other health organizations!
Dude stop spouting off with these thought crimes. Stop usibg ur brain and thinking for yourself. Do as ur told believe what ur told to. Be a good little sheep like everyone else. Otherwise your a fascist
You don’t need to tell them to do that, they clearly already did before commenting. But then, so did you.
“I’m not going to get political but”
“Gets political”
“Spouts off right wing talking points”
“Demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding of the transition process”
I did not say I am not going to. the point of that statement is to point out how abnormal it is for me to weigh in on a political issue and how egregious I believe this to be, and I absolutely do not care if it is right left up or down, this should not be politicized, it is human experimentation.
No it is not. It is a well thought out medical intervention, with extensively studied effects, and life saving outcomes for trans youth.
For the most part of this video Vaush debunks every argument that puberty blockers are an experimental treatment https://invidious.nerdvpn.de/watch?v=HhYruaFZEOI
American Psychological Organization about young transgender people https://www.apa.org/monitor/2022/07/advocating-transgender-nonbinary-youths
Or do you think trans people just pop out of thin air as fully grown adults? You understand that trans people once were kids like everybody else right? And finally have you ever spoken to a transgender person and ask what it is like growing up trans? All these ignorant morons fearmonger like this therapy is pushed onto unknowing kids and parents, presented like it is a cool video game. Guess what, people actively seek this therapy for their kids or themselves because they know what it is doing, it stops unwanted sexual features to develop, and it is reversible.
What was your problem again?
Hi, I’m a trans woman and I just wanna say that the name you chose for yourself suits you really well well!
The amount of shade casually hidden in this comment is something I aspire to.
K. That is a character assassination. Not a necessary argument for people with valid arguments.
Character assassination?
Did your parents name you “stupidcasey?”
Hey, I just like how you picked out your name. It’s a compliment. Why do you gotta be so toxic about yourself? Is it the brain full of hatred? I bet it’s the brain full of hatred.
Best of luck with *gestures at everything*.
Consider possibly not making trans peoples’ lives harder, yeah? Don’t contribute to that.
And that is picking a fight also not a valid argument.
As for making trans lives worse quite frankly your life is less important than children. You wanted a fight right?
Hey, chum, I’m just trying to be uplifting, you wanna come at me with fights, I’m trying to give you a compliment. No wonder you’re not getting laid if you try to fight every woman who says something nice about you.
And I don’t even know the point of that one is. Except to call me a virgin? Are you saying that is a bad thing? Not very politically correct.
“confirms a fundamental lack of understanding of the transition process.”
“Restates more right wing talking points”
“Gets triggered by their own name when used by a member of a community they just insulted”
Going through the wrong puberty is also a life long decision with major consequences. Hope that helps!
Ok, and you can trust politicians parents and children to choose the right gender? We have the same choice no matter if we ban or allow this, the only differences is:
Holy shit you have absolutely no idea what the fuck you’re talking about, so please shut the fuck up about your uninformed personal opinions.
Puberty blockers only delay the onset of puberty until you stop taking them, at which point development resumes normally with far less downsides than the risk of developing undesired sex characteristics. So no, this is not “the same choice no matter if we ban or allow this.” The same choice would be starting actual sex hormones; puberty blockers are the middle ground here.
Banning puberty blockers is politically motivated actors putting their politics above people’s bodily autonomy and medical professionals’ ability to make medically informed decisions.
You’re flat out wrong that allowing doctors to prescribe puberty blockers would cause risk of greater suffering in such a way as to make it abundantly clear that you don’t know what those meds actually do.
You are a fucking moron. Username checks out.
I also have to wonder if this will make it so that kids who take puberty blockers for other reasons won’t be allowed to get them either.
Are we going to start seeing six-year-olds with breasts or facial hair?
I was a transgender child. Going through forced puberty led me to attempt suicide at 14 15 and 18. Parts of my body are covered in self-harm scars due in large part to the utter repulsion I felt at the effects of testosterone on my body. I became an alcoholic at 16, and an oxycontin addict by the time I was 20.
I am extremely lucky to be alive. I have had to spend tens of thousands of dollars undoing the harm testosterone did to me and some things I never will. I could have avoided all of this if I had had access to puberty blockers.
Is forcing us to go through what I went through humane? When a real treatment exists right there? When studies show a less than 1% rate of regret for gender affirmative care for minors? Do you realize you are forcing children to go through what I went through? Do you realize not every child will survive? Do you realize you’re supporting causes that kill children?
Many hugs friend. I remember the immense feelings of disgust, confusion, and frustration when I started bleeding at 10 years old and began developing breasts. I didn’t want any of that. It felt so unnatural. I suffered a lot of health problems from hitting puberty so early, and ironically puberty blockers would have been an effective treatment but they either didn’t exist or simply weren’t offered back in those days.
I am sorry you had to go through all of that and I, for one, am very glad you’re still with us and fighting the good fight.
Thank you. I’m glad to be here, too. Affirmative care allowed me to become the woman I am today, and for that I am very thankful.