So I completely understand why people would feel this way, given that Trump won, it must stand to reason that people voted for him more, right? Except that isn’t the case. Trump got fewer votes this election than the last one.
Let me also just add here: Fuck Trump, fuck the GOP, fuck all of the fascists that supported and voted for him. I wish that Hell was real so that they could all go there.
But the reason he won isn’t because people voted for him more, it’s because Kamala’s platform didn’t inspire democrat voters to actually go and vote for her.
You could totally say that in the two party system, choosing not to vote is the same as voting for Trump, but I think that’s not true - a large number of people who voted Biden but didn’t vote Kamala are likely to be opposed to Trump and are likely to participate in protests, activist action and organising against fascism.
You may not understand why someone would be motivated to participate in activism, but not motivated to vote - and I completely understand that too. People who are into electoral politics don’t really grasp how others feel about it.
There are a number of reasons why that could be, but I would say that probably chief among them are the fact that she represented a status quo rather than a shift towards socialism, and because she refused to take a firm position against the ongoing genocide in Gaza
Of course, you’re free to believe as you wish, and I’m not trying to change your mind really - I’m just trying to add a bit of nuance and help explain what happened.
she understands Trump is unfit to lead anything and would never vote for him
she was unhappy voting for Harris
When I asked why and fact checked, two of her three reasons were false and third was “misleading”.
So even with someone whose vote was always going to be Democrat, the flood of misinformation and lies prevailed.
For my brother who is conservative, I didn’t get into it since there was no point in starting an argument. However he dismissed a lot of things Trump said as “he’s not serious, he’ll never do that.”
a large number of people who voted Biden but didn’t vote Kamala are likely to be opposed to Trump
That’s an intention, a feeling. It’s not an action.
and are likely to participate in protests, activist action and organising against fascism.
That’s great, but it isn’t voting.
These people chose to do nothing about Trump winning the election, and then take on a fascist dictatorship with banners and guns. That’s a great idea if you want a civil war. That’s a great idea if you think that making people suffer and making them see their friends and family die will radicalise them into revolutionary soldiers.
Is that the plan, or do the people who didn’t vote just not have a plan? Were they acting on their emotions? Did they think that it was Kamala’s job to make them feel motivated to resist fascism, because the prospect of voting against a fascist dictatorship just isn’t a sweet enough deal on its own?
It was a choice between neo-fascist now or neo-fascist later, DragonFucker.
Can you not at least see how people might want to try to find other paths forwards and actually make changes?
I was all for telling folks to vote prior to the election, but I can hugely empathise and understand why they didn’t.
Kids in cages, anti-Trans laws, bombs to Israel and Saudi Arabia have only gone up from Bush to Obama to Trump to Biden. The system is the same, it just gets to mask off a bit when Trump is at the helm.
Drag will reiterate drag’s point that we are now facing the prospect of actually making changes, as you say, against a fascist dictatorship. That’s harder than against a liberal capitalist state. If we’re Sisyphus and America is the boulder, then these people just decided to let the boulder roll downhill and smash into a lube factory. That makes it harder to make changes, not easier.
I think we might differ on how bad we think the status quo of neoliberal US is, DragonFucker.
It may be harder, certainly more violent.
But maybe a wider range of society will be more motivated to take direct action.
Edit: and yes, my theory does explain Nazi Germany. A weak, capitalist state where Socialists and Communists were gaining ground electorally led to far right non-winners given power because that was more palatable than ceeding more ground to the Left. And after that it left global capitalism in a stronger state than ever.
I think that if Kamala had been elected, then we would have had four more years of things getting worse under neoliberalism, before getting a fascist in 2028. america is kind of a fascist country, it’s just now that the american people are experiencing it for themselves rather than just subjecting it on others
Maybe, but it’s hard to believe the cult leader will be active in four more years, and so far no one else has whatever power he has to attract his followers.
Also, I’ll take four more years of the country functioning
I have the utmost sympathy for you and your friends and I hope you’re all okay, and I want to send you as much of my love and support as I can. I wish you all nothing but the best and I hope the world turns. Stay strong, stay hopeful, and remember who the true enemy is, the ruling class, the billionaires, the media, the politicians who sold our future for $$$.
So I completely understand why people would feel this way, given that Trump won, it must stand to reason that people voted for him more, right? Except that isn’t the case. Trump got fewer votes this election than the last one.
Let me also just add here: Fuck Trump, fuck the GOP, fuck all of the fascists that supported and voted for him. I wish that Hell was real so that they could all go there.
But the reason he won isn’t because people voted for him more, it’s because Kamala’s platform didn’t inspire democrat voters to actually go and vote for her.
You could totally say that in the two party system, choosing not to vote is the same as voting for Trump, but I think that’s not true - a large number of people who voted Biden but didn’t vote Kamala are likely to be opposed to Trump and are likely to participate in protests, activist action and organising against fascism.
You may not understand why someone would be motivated to participate in activism, but not motivated to vote - and I completely understand that too. People who are into electoral politics don’t really grasp how others feel about it.
There are a number of reasons why that could be, but I would say that probably chief among them are the fact that she represented a status quo rather than a shift towards socialism, and because she refused to take a firm position against the ongoing genocide in Gaza
Of course, you’re free to believe as you wish, and I’m not trying to change your mind really - I’m just trying to add a bit of nuance and help explain what happened.
Maybe the response I got from my Mom is telling
When I asked why and fact checked, two of her three reasons were false and third was “misleading”.
So even with someone whose vote was always going to be Democrat, the flood of misinformation and lies prevailed.
For my brother who is conservative, I didn’t get into it since there was no point in starting an argument. However he dismissed a lot of things Trump said as “he’s not serious, he’ll never do that.”
That’s an intention, a feeling. It’s not an action.
That’s great, but it isn’t voting.
These people chose to do nothing about Trump winning the election, and then take on a fascist dictatorship with banners and guns. That’s a great idea if you want a civil war. That’s a great idea if you think that making people suffer and making them see their friends and family die will radicalise them into revolutionary soldiers.
Is that the plan, or do the people who didn’t vote just not have a plan? Were they acting on their emotions? Did they think that it was Kamala’s job to make them feel motivated to resist fascism, because the prospect of voting against a fascist dictatorship just isn’t a sweet enough deal on its own?
It was a choice between neo-fascist now or neo-fascist later, DragonFucker.
Can you not at least see how people might want to try to find other paths forwards and actually make changes?
I was all for telling folks to vote prior to the election, but I can hugely empathise and understand why they didn’t.
Kids in cages, anti-Trans laws, bombs to Israel and Saudi Arabia have only gone up from Bush to Obama to Trump to Biden. The system is the same, it just gets to mask off a bit when Trump is at the helm.
Drag will reiterate drag’s point that we are now facing the prospect of actually making changes, as you say, against a fascist dictatorship. That’s harder than against a liberal capitalist state. If we’re Sisyphus and America is the boulder, then these people just decided to let the boulder roll downhill and smash into a lube factory. That makes it harder to make changes, not easier.
What is the plan in this decision?
I think we might differ on how bad we think the status quo of neoliberal US is, DragonFucker.
It may be harder, certainly more violent.
But maybe a wider range of society will be more motivated to take direct action.
Edit: and yes, my theory does explain Nazi Germany. A weak, capitalist state where Socialists and Communists were gaining ground electorally led to far right non-winners given power because that was more palatable than ceeding more ground to the Left. And after that it left global capitalism in a stronger state than ever.
Drag has trans friends who live in the USA. Drag does not think their lives are an acceptable price to pay for this plan of yours.
I don’t think their lives are either, DragonFucker.
But Harris wasn’t going to make them safer or even stop things getting worse. Ask them if they felt safer in 2023 or in 2018.
Your anger is better focused at Trump and Co in particular, and the US government in general than regular random people on the street.
As for me, I wish I had a plan. I’d just assumed Harris was going to win, but here we are.
I think that if Kamala had been elected, then we would have had four more years of things getting worse under neoliberalism, before getting a fascist in 2028. america is kind of a fascist country, it’s just now that the american people are experiencing it for themselves rather than just subjecting it on others
Maybe, but it’s hard to believe the cult leader will be active in four more years, and so far no one else has whatever power he has to attract his followers.
Also, I’ll take four more years of the country functioning
Four more years for drag’s friends to live and find a plan to escape the country. Drag thinks that’s a good thing. Do you think it’s a bad thing?
I have the utmost sympathy for you and your friends and I hope you’re all okay, and I want to send you as much of my love and support as I can. I wish you all nothing but the best and I hope the world turns. Stay strong, stay hopeful, and remember who the true enemy is, the ruling class, the billionaires, the media, the politicians who sold our future for $$$.
And the voters who chose this.