• 1984@lemmy.today
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    3 months ago

    I have no idea what woke even means anymore. It seems to mean “social awareness”. Black lives matters kind of a thing. Equal rights for trans people too of course. That doesn’t mean that everyone should support games being forced into having all genders, or races, or include trans people. Or all books or movies should be forced to have those things.

    If you create something, it’s up to you how you want that to be. You are the artist.

    This is not equal to hating trans people, and anyone with some iq points realizes this. We can’t turn every creation into a vehicle for trans rights.

    • Kras Mazov@lemmygrad.ml
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      3 months ago

      That doesn’t mean that everyone should support games being forced into having all genders, or races, or include trans people. Or all books or movies should be forced to have those things.

      Literally no one is being “forced” to add diversity. This is just plain ignorant.

      Besides, no one bats an eye when a character is a white cis hetero man, but the moment something slightly different from the normativity appears, suddenly it is forced and unrealistic.

      Fuck that, LGBT people exist and we deserve the bare minimum of at least having proper representation in the media we consume.

      This is not equal to hating trans people, and anyone with some iq points realizes this. We can’t turn every creation into a vehicle for trans rights.

      Keep your bullshit IQ points talking point. Put yourself on someone’s shoes for once and try to imagine what it might be like for a trans person to experience seeing a character like them. And stop with this bullshit of “making every character trans”, that’s literally not happening.

    • TheKingBombOmbKiller@lemm.ee
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      3 months ago

      And when the artists chooses to include all genders, or races, or trans people; what would you call the effort to force the artists from removing this from their art?

        • TheKingBombOmbKiller@lemm.ee
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          3 months ago

          That is what the culture war is. The effort to create an environment where publishers and artists have a harder time including aspects labeled “woke” because of a loud minority will harass the people involved, review bomb the products, dominate the discourse with bad faith arguments, and generally minimize the potential enjoyment of anyone who is the intended audience. This is what forcing an agenda upon artists looks like.

          • 1984@lemmy.today
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            3 months ago

            I think I’m on the other side - I think it’s way too much woke agenda in a lot of popular TV shows we watch. Disney competely wrecked a lot of shows because they kept pushing in gender/race related things that felt competely out of place.

            I couldn’t even watch the acolyte. They wrecked it competely. Many web pages have described what’s wrong with it so won’t repeat that here, but hopefully you already know what I mean.

            • teawrecks@sopuli.xyz
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              3 months ago

              If you don’t like something, that’s fine. They made the product they want, they’re free to do that, and you’re free to not like it.

              Just know that art has always driven social discussion, and it’s always been met with heavy social opposition, just usually in the form of outright censorship. So historically artists had to be subtle in order to be critical without being censored. In order to see more edgy stuff you had to go to small, barely funded art house shows.

              But then the internet happened, and suddenly artists weren’t beholden to a small number of elite entertainment corporations. Art containing more openly progressive ideas can now be shared directly with the masses, the masses are now preferring progressive ideals more than ever before, and naturally corporations making entertainment products now have a financial incentive to cater to that demographic (often called “virtue signaling”). Today you see a mix of corporate pandering and actual art, even within the development teams of a mainstream product like Dragon Age or Disney. Some messaging feels honest, others feel ham fisted because it’s pride month.

              But the censorship of the pre-internet days existed for a reason. A lot of people feel uncomfortable seeing things that challenge their status quo. People tend to seek comfort, and they just want their entertainment to leave them be. But now that corporate censors are less of a barrier, and now that progressive ideals are proliferating, the people themselves are backlashing. They say things like, “it’s way too much woke agenda, I’m tired of it. I want to watch a show without having the story be about woke issues.” I think that’s also normal.

              I think the backlash is two fold: On the one hand, real art challenges the viewer, which can be exhausting when you just want to be entertained before you get a few hours of sleep and go back to work in the morning. But on the other hand, you do have what offen feels like a disengenuous layer of progressive pandering coming from corporations that you never saw before. And no one likes being pandered to, let alone not being pandered to.

              I think this corporate pandering towards progressive ideals is new, the terms we use to describe everything are definitely new, but the tendency for art to expose people to progressive ideals and the tendency for the masses to be conservative and resist change are as old as humanity. And I view the two as a social evolutionary yin and yang, keeping each other in check.

              • jsomae@lemmy.ml
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                3 months ago

                They made the product they want, they’re free to do that.

                But they aren’t free – Disney has total executive control. This is nothing new though; they used to use this power to censor queerness in shows before (e.g. Gravity Falls). They may still perhaps, and may do so again. Disney in general reigns in everything to make it a sterile corporate product and the artists involved have to swim upstream to make something they want.

                We should all boycott Disney and take its capitalist grip off our culture. Then we can have vastly more diverse media, certainly with more queerness.

            • jsomae@lemmy.ml
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              3 months ago

              Out of curiosity, did you like Andor? Because it had all that stuff too but it was well written instead. Just think about how many women are lead roles on Andor for a second.

              • 1984@lemmy.today
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                3 months ago

                Yeah andor was amazing. Took me a while to get into it but once I did, I wanted to finish. :)

            • Xenny@lemmy.world
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              3 months ago

              Dude I’m trans and hate the acolyte. It’s cause it’s shit not “woke”

              There’s plenty of “non woke” media that’s shit too

              Turns out if you write nothing but shit you get nothing but shit. This is a capitalism putting restrictions on the artist not our society.

              It’s happened time and time again they force trends and focus tested ideas into the writing room instead of true passion. It will happen no matter the context. Shit media will just be shit media regardless of “wokeness” that’s just a current symptom of how we create media. It’s all for profit not for the sake of art.

              That’s what you actually hate dude.

    • rebelsimile@sh.itjust.works
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      3 months ago

      That doesn’t mean that everyone should support games being forced into having all genders, or races, or include trans people

      The fuck are you talking about? No one is forcing anyone to “have all genders or races or include trans people”

      This you bro?

      • jsomae@lemmy.ml
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        3 months ago

        That’s the anti-woke propaganda the text you’re quoting is complaining about. If you listen to anyone right wing long enough this is what they’ll bring up eventually. it’s “fake news” basically – very dangerous fake news.

        Perhaps you misunderstood the poster?

          • 1984@lemmy.today
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            3 months ago

            In what way? I don’t even know what “telling on himself” means. I’m just expression my opinion about this. Why is that so upsetting?

            • jsomae@lemmy.ml
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              3 months ago

              yeah, I think there’s been a terrible miscommunication somewhere. It might help if you clarify – do you yourself believe that there is a sizeable contingent of people who want to force games to include all walks of life?

      • Thavron@lemmy.ca
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        3 months ago

        I don’t think they meant literally. More in the sense that if you don’t include them you’re suddenly “anti-trans/gay/whatever”.

        • barsquid@lemmy.world
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          3 months ago

          Who does this? I am only aware of far-right bros angrily making lists of games that have black and/or gay characters.

          • TheDarksteel94@sopuli.xyz
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            3 months ago

            There’s a few, very vocal idiots every now and then who believe that every group/minority should be represented in every piece of media. A lot of the time they don’t even belong to any of those minorities. And then there’s the people who comply to cater to that audience, because they appear bigger in numbers than they are.

            Don’t wanna get “canceled” on Xitter, you know? /s

            Anyway, I don’t care personally. I haven’t really seen a lot of examples in media where the creators made characters part of a minority, maybe even retroactively, just to please a certain demographic. The closest I can think of is J.K. Rowling’s Xitter account. That was interesting to watch, to say the least lol

    • SassyRamen@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      I have never met a trans person and I’ve only known about 3 gay people personaly… so why are they in every source of media?

      • grrgyle@slrpnk.net
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        3 months ago

        I used to think that. But the amount of people hiding it, or just coping, is probably higher than you think.

        Like I live in a pretty small city with an average gay community, and all it took was one person coming out as trans for a bunch of others to go “oh you know what me too - let’s do this,” so now we have like a whole posse of trans men that I see at the gym all the time (with their gains and their cool names lol).

        I’m not saying this is always the case by any stretch, but if someone is super butch or super femme, they might not be cis.

      • Jerkface (any/all)@lemmy.ca
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        3 months ago

        You have met trans people. It isn’t in every source of media. You are experiencing warped perceptions. Show this post to someone you trust.

      • 1984@lemmy.today
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        3 months ago

        It’s part of an effort to normalize seeing it. I think it’s probably good, but it’s just a bit unrealistic sometimes and feels very forced. ':)

      • Trainguyrom@reddthat.com
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        3 months ago

        I thought I’d never meet a trans person and very few gay people in the agricultural college I attended when I went back to college. Turned out every damn one of the friends I made was somewhere on the LGBTQ spectrum. So as the other person said “as far as you know”

        Acceptance of gay and trans rights has allowed so many people to realize they’re not so straight or not so cisgender and that’s wonderful. People are finally finding the freedom to be who they are!

        • SassyRamen@lemmy.world
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          3 months ago

          I support their rights, they are people, the genitals only mader in bed. I just don’t want aliens in the far future watching our shows and thinking “god damn, it was femboy paradies!”

          • Trainguyrom@reddthat.com
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            3 months ago

            I support their rights, they are people

            the genitals only mader in bed

            These things are very tied together. Supporting people being who they are means supporting them if they want to publicly show their identity

            I just don’t want aliens in the far future watching our shows and thinking “god damn, it was femboy paradies!”

            What does that matter at all? Who cares what people in the far future think? What matters is what people think today, and representation helps people find their own identity and know that they’re included in society

          • can@sh.itjust.works
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            3 months ago

            I just don’t want aliens in the far future watching our shows and thinking “god damn, it was femboy paradies!”

            This is so hyperbolic I have to wonder where this thinking comes from?

        • mindbleach@sh.itjust.works
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          3 months ago

          Enough creators I follow are coming out as trans that I wonder if I’m missing something about myself. I don’t think it’s me… but if not, I sure can pick 'em.

          Admittedly the rate among webcomic artists is through the fucking roof.

          • Trainguyrom@reddthat.com
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            3 months ago

            I wonder if I’m missing something about myself

            Lol I feel that. I can’t tell how much I might be a little bi or just horny