my supervisor is an extrovert, whereas I’m an introvert. She feels insulted if I don’t share my personal life with her and ridicules me before other coworkers because I separate private and work life and prefer to keep to myself.
I wrote mobbing because that’s what it feels to me: a ritual of hers is to always eat together, a time she uses to ask me questions I don’t want to answer. I usually answer very vaguely, which is not enough for her. If I eat alone, she’ll complaint about why am I being so unfriendly.
She doesn’t understand I need time alone to unwind.
She is convinced she is doing me a favor, but the opposite is true. It makes me dislike her even more.
I simply cannot win. It’s tiring being blamed and shamed for preferring to read a book instead of talking about dogs or sex.
It makes me want to quit.
I don’t know if I go to HR with an issue like this, because they may label me the odd one, the one who’s not a teamplayer and use it against me.
Most people are extroverted and react angrily to somebody who keeps to himself and I’ve been bullied several times for this. Extroverts don’t seem to understand that not showing interest in their sexual lives doesn’t mean disrespect, but simply that I don’t care about it.
HR isn’t the employees friend, ever.
But that’s where you start the paper trail. It’s really the safest bet
Boy, I’m real hesitant to go to HR. May as well ask to be fired.
It really depends on the business, culture, climate. The better places I’ve worked, this kind of interest is genuine, an attempt to foster better relationships at work. Of course, some people are just nosey Nellies…
Without knowing the environment and culture (and the questions), it’s hard to say what to do.
Best I can say is to make it clear you like to keep your work and private life well separated.
Agree, hr is more or less a one stop shop to being fired. Op is right, they’ll immediately label you someone who is willing to speak up, what’s the addage? The beach who perks up gets pruned. HR isn’t necessarily there to protect the company, but the status quo. They don’t want anyone making noise, else it is bad for everyone.
Especially if the topic is sex, as OP claims. Like WTF.
I had the luck of working at two places where HR took the real meaning of Human Resources to heart. One place saw their role as maintaining the “resources” in good stead like they would for their machines or tooling, since a broken resource can’t further your company goals. They offeres check-ins to see how things were going, any gripes, any way to spread workload.
Current one has been great too. I had one employee being quite toxic about other employees as an odd way to create internal allegiences and it was creating a difficult situation. I talked with HR rep and they took care of it. That employee now acts professionally.
Sometimes HR is OK, but read the company culture first
Sounds like you need to communicate your desires. This is not limited to extroverts. It’s harder for us introverts but not impossible.
I’d ask for them to stop. If this isn’t followed, something written. If this isn’t followed, time to involve someone higher. I’m very reluctant to involve HR, they’re going to fuck with you very likely. However, your supervisor’s supervisor might be able to help. Important to slowly escalate and make a paper trail if the initial verbal ask doesn’t work out.
Also, did I read that correctly that sex is being discussed? As in sexual intercourse?
People often do things they enjoy when connecting with others, tlhinking that is what others need–especially extroverts and mostly when they aren’t self-aware. e.g. when my wife heads out with friends she tries to plan things for me to do (or even friend hangouts) so I won’t be bored. But that is her as an extrovert thinking how she would be if I went out. I have to reexplain each time that I won’t be bored–i will catch up on reading, podcasts, bike ride, etc, enjoy some solitude, and if I felt the need then I would reach out to a friends.
You may need to have a candid chat and explain that as an introvert you need quiet alone time to recharge your battery–while extroverts charge their battery by being busy or outgoing.
Sheila, I’m a very private person and I would like to keep my work and home life separated. I need that to feel comfortable. I’m here to get work done and happy to talk about anything omnoir work.
If you work at a company with a competent HR department they will be very interested in hearing about how your supervisor is forcing you to eat lunch with her while she interrogates you about your sex life. That is 100% not appropriate in HR world. Just don’t ever believe anyone in HR is actually your friend, stick to the truth always, and document everything. Literally, keep a log of everything. If you end up in lawyer world they will be very happy that you have documentation of dates and who was there and what happened.
It honestly sounds like you’ve got deeper issues with your boss. I would just shop for another job.
I’m quite introverted and have learned to only respond to questions when asked. I have no issue sharing any information. However, I have a major issue with understanding the scope of information worth sharing and when to stop. I do not let myself feel awkward in silence or the need to carry any conversation. If a person piques my curiosity, I can talk with them for days. I can find something curious to talk about with almost anyone. People that lack depth become a repetitive conversation that I will avoid.
Personally, I don’t like to be actively manipulative with people. It goes against my nature. However, if someone annoyed me like this, and I had no other outlet. I would subtly use their psychology against them about like how a psychiatrist turns a conversation to introspection and analysis. Once a person is made vulnerable through unexpected introspection they are easily dominated. I can get away with a lot of things like this because I am a big dude where people expect me to be assertive and dominant in many ways that I really am not. Your results may vary.
Extroverts don’t seem to understand that not showing interest in their sexual lives doesn’t mean disrespect, but simply that I don’t care about it.
I was on the fence until this. This is extremely unprofessional and, if I understand correctly, could even get the company sued. Here’s how I’d personally handle it; but take this with a grain of salt because I’ve never actually had to deal with something like this before:
First, talk to a lawyer. Tell them what’s going on an get their thoughts and suggestions. The suggestions following may be way off-base.
Then, start keeping track of every time she brings something like that up, and log how you responded, how it made you feel, how she reacted to you response. You’re collecting evidence for a lawsuit on the basis of a toxic and highly unprofessional work environment that’ll hopefully never actually happen.
Once you have enough info that you could potentially launch said lawsuit, double-check with your lawyer and then you go to HR.
YOUR LAWYER WILL LIKELY TELL YOU THIS: DO NOT THREATEN A LAWSUIT. DO NOT EVEN HINT AT A LAWSUIT. DO NOT MENTION ANYTHING ABOUT A LAWSUIT, PERIOD. IF YOU MAKE ANY MENTION OF LEGAL ACTION THEN YOU WILL DESTROY YOUR CHANCES OF HAVING A POSITIVE OUTCOME FROM THIS MEETING. THEY ARE ALMOST GUARANTEED TO FIRE YOU AND THEN IMMEDIATELY LAWYER UP. THEY MAY EVEN ATTEMPT TO DESTROY EVIDENCE IF THEY THINK IT’S PREFERABLE TO A SUCCESSFUL LAWSUIT.
Make sure you log your interaction with HR as well; what you discussed, if you felt your concerns were heard during the meeting, and then make a follow-up log a week or two later to note if there was any change as a result of your meeting.
If there was no change, talk to your lawyer and consider trying again (and log everything again), and again, do not threaten, mention or even hint at any kind of legal action whatsoever. You’re trying to give the company ample chance to respond to your concerns.
If there was still no change, go talk to your lawyer about the possibility of pursuing legal action. It could be legitimately worth it, especially if they decide to fire you after your first or second meeting with HR.
Your goal is to have a paper trail so long and thorough that you can hang them with it (figuratively, in court) if necessary.
As a fellow introvert, I’ve found that being meek and timid about uncomfortable situations just invites more trouble from extroverts. The best way to handle it is to be direct and firm. If she wants to be nosy, then drop all the gory details:
"I’m an introvert and I don’t feel comfortable sharing my personal life with coworkers. I know you, as an extrovert, want to be involved in everyone’s personal lives and there’s nothing wrong with that, but as a leader and a manager, you need to understand how to change tracks and adapt to your subordinates’ needs.
“I need time to myself to recharge; being around people is mentally and emotionally draining for me. It’s not something I can “fix,” it’s just the way I am, and no amount of exposure to people or social events will ever change that. I need you to understand that and adapt to my needs, in order for you to effectively manage me.”
I worked my way up the ranks in the US military and eventually found myself managing people. As an introvert, I found it extremely difficult to get out and talk to my subordinates. But I soon realized that the mission wouldn’t get done unless I did my job, so I quickly learned how to fake an extroverted personality while at work so I could talk to people and ensure mission success. Then I’d go home and crash. I’d spend my evenings either sleeping or bundled up, watching TV or playing video games, just to recharge so I could do it all again the next day.
But one of the things I learned was how to adapt to the needs of my subordinates. I had one guy who was a complete fuck-up. Couldn’t do anything right without someone holding his hand. So I either had to be very hands-on with him, or delegate that responsibility to one of my subordinate leaders.
But then I had another guy who grew up in a ghetto being plagued by corrupt cops, and he hated anyone in an authority position over him. Why he joined the military, I dunno. We were all about authority and respecting rank and file. But if I even spoke to him, he would shut down and then be unproductive all day. As long as I left him alone, he was my hardest and most productive worker. So I learned to leave him alone and he practically did my job for me. Maybe your supervisor needs to learn that lesson with you.
I didn’t read your whole comment, but from what i did read I can say this is basically the correct answer. The only thing I’d add is to also include nice sentiments and productivity explanations.
Like:
“Hey [person’s name], do you have a couple minutes? I wanna have a quick chat. I wanna let you know that I’m a significant introvert, which means i need alone time and and some social boundaries. I think you’re a very nice person and i appreciate all the efforts you’ve made trying to connect with me, but that actually makes things more difficult for me. It emotionally stresses me out, and that in turn also reduces my productivity at work. I think you’re great, but it would be really helpful to me if there were no extra social interactions with me beyond what’s needed for our work to get done smoothly. I know you have good intentions when asking about my personal life and striking up conversations, and i honestly appreciate that intent, but it would great if I could have social interactions kept to the minimum. I really appreciate you consideration on this stuff, thanks.”
“I’m an introvert and you’re an extrovert” is frankly an awful way to frame this dynamic. Besides being a binary descriptor that has little basis in reality, OP’s boss acting way out of line has nothing to do with their being an extrovert
It’s more about framing the conversation in a way that helps OP’s supervisor realize they’re at odds with each other, socially, and that the supervisor needs to make changes, not OP. I know it’s a bit blunt and direct and may not exactly describe their relationship, but I’ve found that being direct and binary with extroverted people generally gets them to the point faster, rather than beating around the bush with complex descriptions of their dynamic.
And the supervisor being an extrovert is definitely a part of the problem in this case. They’re ignoring signals from OP that they don’t want to be social, shaming them for it, and forcing public interactions in order to change them. This is classic extrovert behavior which is making OP uncomfortable.
The topic of discussion is definitely off-limits and deserves a conversation with HR, but the supervisor still needs to understand that OP’s antisocial behavior isn’t a problem. Otherwise, the discussion will change to be more work-appropriate, but the behavior will remain.
“Hey, I need to use my lunch break to get away from work things/have some quiet down time. Give me a break and I’ll be better for the afternoon.” Subjects you don’t want to discuss: “Oooh, that doesn’t seem like a topic appropriate for work. What about [thing you are comfortable discussing, work thing].”
I highly recommend becoming very willing to spend time discussing one personal thing so they feel like they’re making a connection. I use my pets, but you can use a sports team as some others suggest, or a hobby you don’t mind sharing, like your progress on painting minis/knitting that sweater/book you’re reading/ latest album from favorite musician. Extroverts want a connection, give them a little and redirect to that thing when they probe.
If your boss persists in bothering you at lunch, ask if you should clock in since this is a work discussion, or if it’s really your personal time to use as you wish.
If they persist in bringing up wildly inappropriate topics like sex, say that you’re uncomfortable. Make it obvious they’re being weird at work. saying “I don’t like discussing my sexual preferences at work”, or similar, loud enough for others in the breakroom to hear should make them uncomfortable. if that doesn’t get you anywhere, there are protections in the US for some things. go to HR, explain you’ve tried explicitly telling them not to talk to you about whatever inappropriate topic, and it’s continuing. Call out that you’re feeling harassed by them continuing to bring up this subject that is not work related. HR might want to try a mediated discussion about it; 1 is reasonable, multiple is not.
if it gets to where you need HR and are worried about your legal rights, find a local worker’s rights lawyer to provide advice. they should be able to tell you what is reasonable effort from the company to fix the situation. be prepared to lose your job if it gets this far.
you shouldn’t have to discuss sex at work as small talk. it can come up in some jobs (medicine, sex work) but shouldn’t be in most workplaces, and there are protections from this kind of harassment in the US.
When I saw the title, my first reaction was to talk it out and explain your feelings to her. Once I read the rest, though, I changed my mind.
This is shaming and bullying. Sex is also a huge no-no. A supervisor should know better. HR is probably your best option.
I know that for years it’s been popular to say things like “HR exists to protect the company, not you.” In some cases, that’s still true. However, companies (and society in general) have become more sympathetic to issues like yours. They’d rather discipline people like her than deal with the multimillion dollar settlement people like her cause.
One note: document everything brought up to HR. If it is a small HR department, they could very well be friends with the supervisor and take their side. HR does indeed exist to protect the company but it is also made up of people (often extroverted ones). Documenting everything can help you out if there is any sort of retaliation. A threat of a lawsuit is absolutely something that can make a company be very apologetic and much more generous. I have had several friends that made sure they documented everything and were given six months severance when there was a possibility of a lawsuit.
HR does exist to protect the company, but sometimes that aligns with your needs. In this case, HR is likely more interested in avoiding a sexual harassment case (which would cost the company), so they’re probably going to hear you out.
Right, HR is there to protect the company. Your manager is (almost always) not the company. So if the manager is doing something fucky, that’s what HR is for.
I’m an extrovert. That’s not the problem. This is social bullying. Please don’t frame this as “extrovert” behavior. This is reprehensible social interaction. As an extrovert I would NEVER talk about personal experiences at work. I would NEVER ask anyone to participate in my conversations unless they clearly wanted to. Stop conflating extroversion with bullying.
The problem is caused by a combination of extraversion and low social intelligence.
Extraversion isn’t the problem, and I didn’t get the sense that OP was saying all extraverted people are like this. But the problem is undoubtedly related to the boss’ extraversion
And the skewed power dynamic.
It seems at least possible that her intentions are good, and you don’t want to blow up your job, right? Have you told her directly that you like her and like your job, but the lunch-and-interrogation is not your idea of a break, and you do need a break? With a smile, do not feel like you are doing anything wrong. You are not doing anything wrong.
I am surprised nobody else is sitting these out ever, if every other person in your group looks forward to the lunches and they are part of what she considers the culture of the department, maybe it’s important to her. But I have never worked anywhere where it was a requirement like that.
I like answering with completely bullshit made up stories. Over the top, but still comprehensible. It’s obvious they’re fake, but there’s no hard proof of it.
“What did you do this weekend?”
“I went to the second, secret Burning Man where they immolate an actual man.”
I’ll trade you the communal toothbrush for this joke.
“I went to the third, even more secret Burning Man where a man immolate himself and we sat around him.”
It’s important for you to learn to set boundaries. And to block questions that you feel are hitting “too close to home”. So don’t respond. Just tell her that you have a private life that you’d like to keep to yourself.
There’s nothing wrong with that. You just need some time and practice to stand up for yourself. :)
OP, I’d urge you to reconsider framing this whole thing as an “extrovert vs introvert” battle. Your boss is demonstrating poor boundaries and disrespectful and inappropriate behavior, and that has nothing to do with whether she’s an I or E on the Myers-Briggs.
Whether or not you go to HR depends a lot on your company culture. Either way, you need to be documenting specific comments and specific behaviors that are inappropriate first. Every time she asks you an uncomfortable question, especially if it relates to sex, write down what she asked, how you responded (that you declined to answer and asked her to stop asking personal questions), who else was present, and the date/time. Keep this in a personal account, not company. Do NOT go to HR without documentation.
We don’t know how big your company is, but odds are if she’s a middle manager she’s got people above her already who know she’s a gossip and hate that. If you have any relationship at all with her supervisor, it’s generally viewed as following the chain of command if you bring concerns like this directly to them, as well.
If you’re in a reasonably sized company, do NOT go to HR. She might get fired for her behavior, you WILL be fired for starting a fire. HR does NOT like fires.
I had the good fortune to battle the CTO of a multinational who couldn’t keep his hands off the employees. Everyone was too afraid to speak up, I was not. The CTO was fired. One day after he fired me with the full support of HR, because “you are incompetent in your job”. Mind you this was after multiple stellar reviews of my local superiors
This is terrible advice.
OP needs to set boundaries in a paper traceable way after establishing then in person (an email of “dear boss lady, I want to eat lunch alone, kthxbye”), and track violations of those boundaries (dear boss lady, today you sat with me at lunch after I asked you not to, please explain why). (Obviously be more professional).
Then after a few violations, OP can go to HR because suddenly the boss lady is starting the fire; there is a clear history of personal boundaries not being maintained, leading to a hostile work environment.
This only doesn’t work when the company is like 5 people and HR is your boss’s cousin or whatever.
Like I said, whether you should go to HR will depend a lot on your company culture. In all the jobs I’ve worked, I’ve had HR departments that would’ve taken your complaint seriously and not allowed you to be retaliated against in that way. Btw, what you’re describing does sound like retaliation, which is totally a lawsuit you could pursue
For the record, Introversion and Extroversion have a scientific basis. The Myers-Briggs does not.
