as a person that came from the 3rd world country and new in fediverse environment, i genuinely would like to know about this.
edit: thanks for the replies! sorry, i literally don’t know the reason since i’m not a western lol. twitter/x is too biased especially when musk openly supports trump so i came here and seeing fediverse is mostly are harris or biden (when he’s still up for the candidate) supporters. don’t know about reddit tho, i only use reddit as a forum for linux and programming stuff.
There was an alt-right instance made that got defederated quickly.
Exploding Heads may be what you’re talking about, a Nazi instance.
I don’t like the deranged trumpists but unfortunately there’s not much Christian discussion on here and !christianity@lemmy.world gets downvote brigaded
People are pissed about all the harm christianity is causing in the world. In a community that is more likely to consider religion to be the “opium of the people”, you won’t find much support for christianity, I’m afraid. Even if you’re not part of the people using your beliefs as a weapon to oppress.
But downvoting posts just because they’re Christian in nature is just purely religious bigotry. Anti-theism isn’t much better, if not worse, depending on how someone follows their religion.
Those dang anti-theists, with all their crusades, and inquisitions, and molestation scandals. At least when theists isolate you from your friends and family for being gay, or leaving an abusive relationship, it’s done in the name of God. What’s the anti-theists excuse?
This is actually laughable, but I’ll point out your own hypocrisy.
Anti theism is desiring the eradication of all belief in God and mandatory atheism. By default and nature, it is bigoted and worse than everything you listed. But sure, let’s entertain this anyway.
The aim of the Crusades were about taking back the Holy Lands from the occupying Muslim forces. Sure, religion was involved, but the same stuff happens with National ideology. Like Russia “taking back” Crimea in 2014. So getting rid of religion won’t stop things like this happening. Throughout modern history, most major wars were based on a secular political ideology, notably the First World, Second World, Cold, Korean and Vietnam wars.
Second - Molestation scandals. These happen in any organisation, and like wars, aren’t inherently religious. Of course, large churches were a good target for child molestors, but the same thing happens with schools, generic celebrity stuff and broadcasting corporations. Sometimes on a bigger scale than the scandals in the Roman Catholic Church. Anything that gives anyone positions of power.
Third - Let’s list some prominent anti-theist regimes.
USSR - 1.2 Million killed in the purge.
People’s Republic of China - “Fatality estimates vary across different sources, ranging from hundreds of thousands to millions, or even tens of millions.” (Of deaths in the cultural revolution). Christianity is still persecuted to this day, and the state can be described as anti-theistic.
Nazi Germany - 6 million Jews killed in the holocaust. Very arguably anti theist as Hitler tried to eradicate Jews and suppressed Christianity that wasn’t theologically liberal in his favour.
Obviously not everyone was killed in the precise name of anti-theism, but it still shows that the problem isn’t religion, which anti theism makes it out to be.
Lastly, in the People’s Republic of China, people are often shunned for divorce and homosexuality, and it’s still a very atheistic country.
For myself, I have never shunned anyone based on sexual orientation, gender identity or relationship status. I have never called for any of these people to be killed by the state for these either. I do not believe the state should be enforcing Christianity when someone’s immorality isn’t hindering anybody else (Such as Homosexuality or Polygamy) Yet if the anti theists had their way, they’d have me persecuted and likely killed because I am a Christian.
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That was the aim of some crusades, there were also the northern crusades which had the goal of slaying pagans and forcibly converting people to Christianity. Obviously not all war comes from religion, but Christianity does seem to have a penchant for interfaith violence.
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Not only have there been an out sized number of sex abuse scandals involving christian churches (most prominently the Catholic church) there’s been a clear pattern of retaliation, cover-ups, and defense of abusers. When there’s a scandal in a public school, the offender is fired and indicted. The church has routinely shielded offending priests, shuffling them around to avoid accountability.
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Nazi Germany was theistic, 98.5% of Nazis were Christians. Their belt buckles had “God is with us” inscribed on them. There has been more violence waged against theists by other theists than by anti-theists. Interfaith wars, sectarian violence, pogroms, inquisitions, forced conversions, over a thousand years of history shows clear patterns of religious violence. The USSR was anti-theistic (at least originally), and their persecution of religious people was wrong, but pretending that every anti-theist supports violent purges of the faithful is absurd. I am not an anti-theist, but I have friends who are, and they just want to be left alone.
1: Again, my point was that not all wars are religion based. Islam also have a penchant for it. The Bible doesn’t advocate war either (in fact, Jesus seems to imply the opposite) 2: The issue is an organisation of the Roman Catholic Church, not the religion itself. Large organisations like that are houses of cards. 3: Sure, the nazis may have been theistic but fundamentalist/orthodox (small o) Christians were still persecuted for rightfully calling out the evils of the Nazi regime.
pretending that every anti-theist supports violent purges of the faithful is absurd.
So you’ll think that you’ll manage to get me to renounce my faith and stop believing using laws without having to kill me? 🤣 Anti theism is the advocation of removing and persecuting religion. “Wanting to be left alone” is more akin to secularism, where the government doesn’t have a support or bias for any religion.
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Yes, Islam and Christianity both have a penchant for holy wars.
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There are many large organizations that don’t put so much effort into shielding abusers.
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Anyone who called out the evils of the Nazi regime was persecuted, including atheists who were often labeled ‘Russian supporters’ due to their lack of faith. ‘Godless’ communists were the first targets of Nazism.
I think most modern anti-theists aren’t interested in forcibly converting anyone, they see the rise of atheism as inevitable. They want to remove religion from schools and public life, stop posting the ten commandments everywhere, stop putting ‘god’ on money, etc. at least that’s what I hear about.
I don’t think anti-theists need to be advocates of forcing people to stop being religious, they can simply be opposed to theism. Like I’m opposed to the smoking of tobacco, but I’m not interested in prohibiting it, I just think it’s unhealthy and the world would be a better place if there was less of it. I think that’s how many anti-theists feel about religion. At least that’s the impression that I get from talking with them.
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Second - Molestation scandals. These happen in any organisation, and like wars, aren’t inherently religious.
Ok, honestly, celibacy might’ve been facilitative for it. You know, accessible targets because instincts are instincts, even if it’s young boys.
And priests being celibate in the Roman Church is some mad doctrine which came about after the Reformation and contradicts 1 Timothy 3:2&13
The doctrine of celibate priests is not a part of the Christian religion and I strongly disagree with it.
Is worth mentioning though homosexual people and paedophiles could have became clergy in the Roman church to escape societal pressure - it would give an excuse for them not to be harassed by society asking “when wife” and over time, feelings got pent up and was unleashed in horrible ways. That’s just a theory, though
Oh nonono, we’re not playing the “but atheism is a religion too and it’s worse!” Garbage
Every Christian is “not like the other” Christians. The rhetoric isn’t welcomed on the fediverse because it’s poison.
Stuff gets downvoted when it hits the all page. The conservative communities have the same problem: they’re not wanted here.
I’ve just subbed! I look forward to contributing to discussion in the future :)
NNN communities also get downvote brigaded, even though the famous Internet challenge is largely apolitical.
Nofap communities? How? It sounds like the most harmless thing
It’s not even nofap, it’s no nut November. The former is a philosophy, the latter is a challenge.
I think people downvote nofap here because it makes some arguments that really stretch the truth and feed into bigger lies. In reality, there’s nothing wrong with not fapping, but there’s also nothing wrong with fapping.
Isn’t it moreso like alcohol? It can be abused but also can be in moderation?
Yep. Although it’s hard to abuse fapping because you run out of sperm lol. It can be a big time waster though.
Screws up your pleasure receptors. If you use porn, it can also mess up your attractions
They’re cowards?
We don’t take kindly to folks who don’t take kindly 'round here.
They’re here, anything pro trump is often downvoted, and most things heavily critical of the Dems are also often downvoted.
For better or worse, there’s not a lot of right wing stuff that makes it into the positive on votes.
If you sort new, you’ll see it pop up from time to time.
It’s hard to tell sometimes, but it certainly feels like some political regimes are trying out dropping propaganda here or there into the conversation. I’m sure most of it is from genuine users, but there are some comments that just look like they’re here to stir up dissent.
The difference to Reddit et al is that votes don’t generally matter a huge lot in here. And you can easily hide them.
For better or worse, there’s not a lot of right wing stuff that makes it into the positive on votes.
That is for the better.
It would be nice to have some opposition, though. Even if most “conservative” media right now is little more than xenophobia, or cult worship, there do exist sound arguments against the typical internet-left positions. I don’t have a solid enough read on what comes through New in the fediverse to say whether any of that is being submitted and just downvoted off everyone’s feeds, or if all that’s being submitted is the average conservative media junk.
Still, political spaces without opposition/diversity invariably degenerate into purity contests, and circle jerking.
Conservative media comes through plenty in the form of business, tech and mainstream media sources 🙄
Don’t confuse the fact that Republicans have become degenerate doesn’t mean their ideas are the basis of conservative ideology.
No, there’s really not sound arguments against them. That’s why nobody ever hears sound arguments.
Stop assuming ghosts exist because you saw a picture frame on the wall move when a large truck went by…
No, there’s really not sound arguments against them.
That’s like saying there are no trade-offs to any policies; it’s simply not true. I’m as left as they come (not American left, British), but failing to admit there are flaws or sound arguments against left-wing ideas is very ignorant.
If you think the right has sound points you wish were better represented here, then are you sure you’re as left as they come?
Your argument begs the question.
Not what I said, is it? The person said there are no arguments against “the typical internet-left positions”; which I disagree with. If such positions were infallible, they would always succeed. All policies have trade-offs.
I didn’t mention “right … sound points” or their representation.
Actually it’s my b as i confused another posters point up the chain for yours, sorry
Nonono, you misunderstand the political landscape.
Something having downsides IS NOT the same as the claims being made against things. If you think conservative politicians are arguing in good faith, you simply haven’t been listening.
There really are not sound (conservative) arguments against them.
If you do not agree, you do not know enough. Period.
If you do not agree, you do not know enough. Period.
Lol. Your arrogance is astounding.
Your pride in ignorance is pathetic. Perfect example of why public education is critically important to fund, and to fund properly.
Conservstives cling on to old, stupid ideas that are in the process of being proven wrong. Again and again and again and again.
But you go ahead and defend that hill that brought us golden gems of wisdom like “Trickle Down Economics”, private, for-profit prisons, and a lack of regulation so companies can dump what ever they want in to rivers and the ocean…
You occasionally run into some disagreeable but unobjectionable “traditional” conservative opinions, usually around economics and the governments role in it, but trump shit isn’t that. We can be friends if you think a market solution is viable or better than an entitlement program. We can’t be friends if you think a significant portion of your fellow citizens are vermin or that we should just let terrible problems continue or get worse.
The window has just shifted so far that literal objective depictions of reality are described as “left”.
However Lots of places love to call those pointing out flaws in democratic policies trump supporters unfortunately
They’re here, you can find them if you look in the right places - however, most fediverse admins are technically apt and left leaning so Trump bullshit often gets folks banned and, when it doesn’t, they usually get a very negative response.
I think a lot of the people on Lemmy came from Reddit when the whole API thing happened. It was pretty much a boycott. I assume most of the people who cared enough about that to leave were mostly left-leaning.
That’s why I’m here, at least.
I left Reddit because of the pro-genocide mods
Reddit chased away the Trump supporters before the API thing happened. When it did, some people like me who are classic-liberals and libertarians also came over. After all, Lemmy is an inherently libertarian platform even when its users aren’t. When I express a political opinion objectionable to leftists, I get several times more down-votes than up-votes but I do get up-votes.
Lemmy is an inherently libertarian platform
This is an interesting perception, because if you mean American libertarianism then this doesn’t really make sense. Lemmy’s creators are communist and intended it to be anti-corporate. It is designed in a decentralized manner specifically to avoid situations where companies can own and profit from it.
The kinds of platforms I would see as being libertarian (in the American sense) are the diaspora of privately owned social media companies.
The idea of federation isn’t communist
The idea of preventing private ownership and rent-seeking of communication platforms is.
Not all libertarian-leaning people are on board with corporatism; IMO freedom is for people, not businesses.
I respect it but if you’re American and trying to take the word back, I’m afraid you’re a little too late. It’s a political party now and they’re all-in on corporatism.
Almost no one pays attention to the big-L Libertarian party. Ron and Rand Paul got some attention on the national level but they weren’t even members of the party (while in office) and the party itself has never been politically relevant.
I think these days the word is associated more with Silicon Valley techno-libertarians (a group I identify with). These guys favor the free market over government regulation (which isn’t really relevant to Reddit) but they’re also very sympathetic to free-as-in-speech open-source software.
Maybe you should look into why we have those regulations. - an actual libertarian
What makes you an actual libertarian?
Silicon Valley techno-libertarians (a group I identify with)
I hate to break it to you but these are definitely the worst ones. It’s what the Gadsden flag waving canned food and gun hording preppers turn into if they end up with tons of money. These are the morons that build bunkers in New Zealand and try to brainstorm ways to keep their post-apocalyptic security guards loyal to them with remote-detonated bomb collars or holding their families hostage.
The preppers are different because they want to be left completely alone. They don’t see any acceptable role for government in their lives. I don’t think they’re being realistic. Freedom isn’t free, as the saying goes.
The techno-libertarians are much more engaged with society and do see a role for government, even if that role is small and (at least according to some of them) bizarre by conventional standards. I’m not going to deny that the bunker-building types are involved in the movement. I often don’t agree with the weirder people involved, but I like that techno-libertarians are willing to hear people out and judge their ideas rationally rather than shunning them for being weird.
(I think I might have a bunker built if I was rich enough. The expected utility of it is higher than that of, say, a second yacht. Human guards are a dead end. Probably the best thing that can be done if civilization totally collapses and you manage to get inside is blowing up the entrance so that anyone who wants to get to you has to move a thousand tons of rock first. You probably won’t ever get to leave, but it’s better than what would happen if you did.)
I’m sure even non-Ameticans can tell the difference between an uppercase and lowercase letter L.
American libertarian just means embarrassed Republican nowadays.
As a libertarian liberal, what communities would you recommend? I’m sad there’s not a more active free speech community on this platform. The reddit one is such a gross conservative circle jerk rn.
I used to call myself a “left libertarian” but to be frank, after learning more I’ve found that “anarchist” fits far better. And there’s a lot of interesting content out there that I enjoy. I’m not sure who all .world has defederated, but the solar punk instance is always great, our mods are great (Midwest social), some people may find them abrasive, but those are people who maybe don’t understand that when you play in someone else’s home, you play by their rules.
Also: blahaj, beehaw, and even hexbear is usually entertaining, even if I have some disagreements with them.
The point is, there’s a lot out there, depending on who you’re federating with.
I don’t have anything to suggest on Lemmy. There’s so little activity that I participate in every community where I see an interesting post, except for those communities which are specifically for people with some particular set of beliefs which I don’t share.
If you’re looking beyond Lemmy, there are are the comment sections of the SlateStarCodex/AstralCodexTen blog and the blogs it links to as well as some associated forums and subreddits. You’ll find plenty of liberal libertarians and the comments tend to be polite and high-effort, but keep in mind that a dedication to free speech means that people with opinions that can’t be discussed elsewhere participate too. It’s a bit much for me sometimes.
Lemmy is an inherently libertarian platform even when its users aren’t
The devs are Communists and created Lemmy along Communist lines and principles. Libertarians can also agree with Lemmy’s structure though.
I think this is an example of where the left-right axis isn’t the most adequate way of viewing things. The Fediverse in general is anti-authoritarian. You can be all the way from a far-left anarchist to a far-right anarcho-capitalist and still be anti-authoritarian, just like both tankies and nazis are authoritarian.
My experience as well. Though I avoid political munis these days.
If it’s libertarian it’s libertarian socialist. There’s no property or capital on here, posts get boosted by collective voting, not based off your following or account. There’s not even an idea of karma, your account means basically nothing here. A capitalist libertarian social media would be something like nostr or what bluesky is claiming it’ll eventually do where you completely own your account and your following and you can use that social capital as you wish.
There’s only one way you can support Trump today.
You either refuse to acknowledge all the terrible things he’s done, or you approve of the things he’s done.
People who refuse to acknowledge, are going to look at all the “fake news” on this site about His Oranginess, and quickly decide that it’s nothing but propaganda and go somewhere “more reliable”.
Those who agree, stick around a little longer. They will argue and defend the horrible things, because they think there are more like them that will come out and back them up as a fellow defender of
racismmisogynyhomophobia“Good old family values”. But they will be downvoted to oblivion and have trouble finding a friendly voice. Eventually, they too will go where they can have a more comfortable discussion with people who are as terrible as they are.Not sure who down voted you. Or even why
You either refuse to acknowledge all the terrible things he’s done, or you approve of the things he’s done.
This is two ways. You literally said either / or.
The brackets were implied by OP.
I.e. “one way: (be ignorant || approve)”.
No! I have been defeated!! I now have no choice but to vote Republican! Damn you, Orbituary! <Fist waves dramatically>
How did you get that from my comment?
It’s all good. Just having fun.
Our three weapons are…
We had an opportunity years ago to fix this problem. Long before Trump ever showed up on the scenes as a political individual. We needed in schools to be teaching how to pick out real news from fake news. How to pick out fact from propaganda. Hell out to read a newspaper properly.
How to logically pick a part in argument. We chose not to. We as a society, decided not to put our money towards that. No people read a headline, and based purely on the headline, make a statement such as “throw the guy in jail for the rest of his life for that one “.
I sat on a jury trial. It was a murder trial, if you went purely by what was in the local newspaper, you would’ve seriously questioned why the guy didn’t just take a plea deal. If you sat in that courtroom day after day, listening to it you’d realize this is a lot tougher than what you realize. we had a time figuring out if the guy was even in town at the time of the murder.
But for those that weren’t involved in the trial, they’re convinced the guy belonged in jail for the rest of his life. Because people didn’t sit down and really read the newspaper and ask important questions. Because we don’t hold our journalists to a higher standard and force them to give all the information And tell both sides of the story.
I have no idea how you solve the problem anymore. Because at this point, even if you tell the complete truth about any given politician, no one‘s going to believe what they’re reading anymore because there’s another so-called journalist out there saying the exact option and people say well I don’t know what to believe then. And can’t figure out how to critically think about this and ask questions.
Here in Lemmy we are guilty of the same sort of thing, same as over at truth social same as over at Twitter same as over Facebook.
As a society, I’m sorry for the language here, we are well and truly fucked.
I truly don’t know what the answer is.
Also sidenote 10 bucks says somebody comes back with a stupid comment of well since you don’t know what the answer is obviously you’re just saying that we shouldn’t do anything and just give up.
Neglecting public education is really going to keep biting us in the ass.
Something like half of US adults can’t read at a sixth grade level.
If we took some of the idiotic venture capitalist “it’s cat gifs on the block chain” nonsense and put it into education and infrastructure, we’d be so much better off.
I don’t really know how to get from here to there, either. Give me magic powers to Thanos snap away some people, maybe?
We needed in schools to be teaching how to pick out real news from fake news.
Obviously there are issues with education in this country but it’s always an easy scapegoat for these kinds of issues. Plenty of states have skills like this in their common core, I would venture to say you’re incorrect on that point.
Fair enough I graduated in the early 90s at that time we didn’t have it. At least not at the level that I felt that we should’ve. If I’m wrong on that, then I apologize.
No worries, you just hear a lot of misguided criticisms of the education system a lot of which are based on anecdotal experiences. I wish everyone would keep tabs on what kids are learning and have a more hands on approach to curricula.
So what you are saying is I should be volunteering for the geography classes to help reinforce the flat earth ideals? 😁
Oh fucking christ, a flat-earther. You people are even worse than the fucking round-earther scum on this platform.
I swear you people will never accept a velociraptor-shaped earth, prolly cuz your brains just aren’t big enough to process the geometry.
Did you miss the incredibly obvious joke?
If you’ve never watched the move 12 Angry Men, do yourself a favor and watch it. You are going to love it and it has everything to do with your comment.
Thanks for the recommendation
All I know is that I use socials to get away from political bullshit
me too, tbh.
Trump supporters tend to hang out in the /modlog community. Try there first.
I think the hard-right people have mostly self-exiled to their own echo chambers like truth.social and other places that are Donald-used-and-approved. I think he’s also active on Twitter again now that Musk has destroyed all content moderation on the platform. They follow their great leader and unless and until he starts posting his demagoguery on Lemmy they have no interest and no reason to come here.
They generally get defederated from the major instances.
if only we could defederate them from the USA.
The ones I know are full of racist memes and incel comments, so…
I have seen the one or the other, but they were immediately down voted into oblivion.
sad to be trump supporter here tho lol
Its sad to be a trump supporter everywhere.
Most likely your instance is defederated from all the nazi-adjacent instances 🤷
Yeah. It’s the advantage but also disadvantage of the Fediverse. If you’re on the wrong instance you won’t even notice that certain ideologies are right out blocked by the instance owner. This can go into all political directions. You wouldn’t even notice this happening unless you do research on which instances are blocked by yours.
That’s the thing. On one hand I like not being bombarded by the shit opinions but on the other I like being informed at what the talking points are (to a degree) because I find that keeps me sharp against the opposition. When I read or hear about conservative viewpoints, I only think about how obtuse the logic is so it’s not something I worry at all about affecting my mindspace so this might not be a solution to everyone.
I’m still torn on the topic since it’s nice to not give a platform to obviously shit ideals since that’s how the misinformation spreads but I still wonder if there’s an even better protocol out there we haven’t been able to even comprehend yet.
Personally I’m cool with that. I don’t think daily exposure to actual fascists is good for one’s head. And I wouldn’t mind .ml getting the axe too (though I’m not gonna be the one pestering my instance admin about that) because Tankies are equally as draining.
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There probably are some right-wing instances, but I’m guessing they all got defederated for… reasons…
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Conservatives already have their own platforms e.g. truth social, twitter, 4chan, others
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The very format of Lemmy is more egalitarian. For example, it gives an enormous amount of power to individual users to filter out unwanted content, and decentralizes content moderation over a variety of instances. This doesn’t appeal to some right-wing ideologues who seem to value more hierarchical, centralized systems. Basically, Lemmy is more democratic (or has the potential to be more democratic) than other platforms.
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