Hrm, I’m not sure there. I’d say it’s closer to just not knocking them down so often. Most of the time, men and women can build themselves up.
A lot of the issues we currently have are based on women being taught to knock men down, and men being taught to knock women down. Oddly enough, which side has it worse depends on where you’re from, but the motivation for it is always the same - power and the maintenance of.
Hrm, I’m not sure there. I’d say it’s closer to just not knocking them down so often. Most of the time, men and women can build themselves up.
when they have a proper conceptualization and understanding of the world, absolutely, the problem is that we don’t exactly raise them with one. This is the reason the manosphere is so prominent.
The problem is not individuals being assholes and raping people for no reason, the problem is a lack of instilling a good social culture in boys as they grow leading them to be primed to be a good person in society. Like i said currently we just kinda shit them out of hs and into college or not, and that’s literally it. There’s nothing to be interested in or excited about. If you’re a woman growing up in modern society there’s a lot to be interested in, college enrollments are up, more women are getting educated, more women are going into large businesses and managerial rolls, there’s a lot of perceived social progress there.
the problem is men don’t really have anything of the sort to care about. Everything they previously had to care about was removed and reinstated with something counter intuitive to what it proposed. We haven’t replaced what no longer exists, there is just a void here, and it’s no surprise that men enroll in college less, pursue higher education less, and are generally worse off in life (higher rates of suicide etc)
I think you’ve touched on the problem at hand here, i think the part you don’t quite realize is that this is a secondary knock on effect of the prior (what i just mentioned) this is all to be expected as a result from something of this caliber.
i think right now one of the best strategies that we have is to build up the capability of being a good role model, and in general being a good person in boys/young men, it’s a little bit reminiscent of previous norms, but we don’t really have many options here. One thing that is bound to be pretty effective here is utilizing them to be a social group leader of their domain (mostly other men)
You raise some excellent points here, however I’m not entirely swayed.
Your point about raising men with a good social culture is a good one, however it has its roots in the fallacy which really lies at the heart of the matter - that only men need fixing.
As a man, I’ve sat through a work conversation where a group of women (including my direct senior) have openly denigrated men in humour (I found it edgily funny). If it had been the other way around, the men involved would be talking to HR the next day, no laughs involved. The standards to which both parties are held need to be the same, though what those standards are is anybody’s guess.
Equality, equity, justice: that lovely ladder graphic. If you give students extra resources, their outcomes are better. “Women in stem”, “women’s networking day”, all aimed in one place at one group. In our drive to redress imbalance against women, we have created one against men. It isn’t the fact that young men feel isolated and need socialising that’s stopping them, it’s the fact that the deck is rigged against them and we celebrate that rigging.
What you see with the “manosphere” (never heard it called that before, I like the name), is the froth and bubbles. The boys who are angry, but who can’t do anything about it, are the ones who tumble in there and become monsters instead.
The solution isn’t simple, and while socialisation will help a little, there needs to be fundamental changes to the social world before we can move forward. If your argument were to be, say, socialising both men and women to be kinder to one another, I’d be with you.
Hrm, I’m not sure there. I’d say it’s closer to just not knocking them down so often. Most of the time, men and women can build themselves up.
A lot of the issues we currently have are based on women being taught to knock men down, and men being taught to knock women down. Oddly enough, which side has it worse depends on where you’re from, but the motivation for it is always the same - power and the maintenance of.
when they have a proper conceptualization and understanding of the world, absolutely, the problem is that we don’t exactly raise them with one. This is the reason the manosphere is so prominent.
The problem is not individuals being assholes and raping people for no reason, the problem is a lack of instilling a good social culture in boys as they grow leading them to be primed to be a good person in society. Like i said currently we just kinda shit them out of hs and into college or not, and that’s literally it. There’s nothing to be interested in or excited about. If you’re a woman growing up in modern society there’s a lot to be interested in, college enrollments are up, more women are getting educated, more women are going into large businesses and managerial rolls, there’s a lot of perceived social progress there.
the problem is men don’t really have anything of the sort to care about. Everything they previously had to care about was removed and reinstated with something counter intuitive to what it proposed. We haven’t replaced what no longer exists, there is just a void here, and it’s no surprise that men enroll in college less, pursue higher education less, and are generally worse off in life (higher rates of suicide etc)
I think you’ve touched on the problem at hand here, i think the part you don’t quite realize is that this is a secondary knock on effect of the prior (what i just mentioned) this is all to be expected as a result from something of this caliber.
i think right now one of the best strategies that we have is to build up the capability of being a good role model, and in general being a good person in boys/young men, it’s a little bit reminiscent of previous norms, but we don’t really have many options here. One thing that is bound to be pretty effective here is utilizing them to be a social group leader of their domain (mostly other men)
You raise some excellent points here, however I’m not entirely swayed.
Your point about raising men with a good social culture is a good one, however it has its roots in the fallacy which really lies at the heart of the matter - that only men need fixing.
As a man, I’ve sat through a work conversation where a group of women (including my direct senior) have openly denigrated men in humour (I found it edgily funny). If it had been the other way around, the men involved would be talking to HR the next day, no laughs involved. The standards to which both parties are held need to be the same, though what those standards are is anybody’s guess.
Equality, equity, justice: that lovely ladder graphic. If you give students extra resources, their outcomes are better. “Women in stem”, “women’s networking day”, all aimed in one place at one group. In our drive to redress imbalance against women, we have created one against men. It isn’t the fact that young men feel isolated and need socialising that’s stopping them, it’s the fact that the deck is rigged against them and we celebrate that rigging.
What you see with the “manosphere” (never heard it called that before, I like the name), is the froth and bubbles. The boys who are angry, but who can’t do anything about it, are the ones who tumble in there and become monsters instead.
The solution isn’t simple, and while socialisation will help a little, there needs to be fundamental changes to the social world before we can move forward. If your argument were to be, say, socialising both men and women to be kinder to one another, I’d be with you.