Religious bigots offended, yet again
Let them cry.
It wasn’t even the last supper, it was referencing Greek stuff from what I have heard
I’m also pissed at the Olympics this year, mostly because I got stuck one hour on the road, but maybe I just don’t want to admit how dumb I was to not avoid Paris on my trip to the west… nah it’s them! not me!
Surely there have never been any parodies of the Last Supper before this one.
(I’m partial to this one)
This is the one that always stuck in my head.
The guy who played Hyde is a serial rapist. He was in the running for Trumps VP.
Thanks, will keep that in mind when I watch that 70s show and suddenly get urges to copy Hyde without question.
? I understand not liking the joke but idk where that comment comes from lol
A lot of people believe that if an artists turns out to be a bad person, you should not consume their art.
Imo boycotting makes sense but any work of art should be able to be enjoyed regardless of where it came from.
That wasn’t the joke I was making though. My joke was that Trump was considering making a serial rapists his VP pick. I don’t disagree with the point you’re making I’m just confused as to why you think it’s relevant.
At first I didn’t realize it was a joke tbh. Thanks for explaining
TAKE THAT PHOTO DOWN NOW, THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!
I like how they have a painting of ol’ Ronnie Raygun on one side of the wall with Putin on the other. If only he was alive to see them now.
Some people really just wake up looking for something to get rankled about.
wait until they find out about their beloved movie the matrix
This is really killing me. The Last Supper is a fucking painting. It ain’t in the book. There’s no part of the Bible where it says and Jesus sat down at a stupidly long table and all of his asshole Apostle sat down on the same side and posed weirdly. Why is the painting suddenly holy? Since when do conservatives like art? I’ve never met a conservative who didn’t want to burn most paintings.
Judas: so lets get this last supper going.
Jesus: the what supper?
Judas: good supper, nice supper, normal supper!
good supper, nice supper, normal supper!
Super supper!
Matthew 26:20-29 ESV
When it was evening, he reclined at table with the twelve. And as they were eating, he said, “Truly, I say to you, one of you will betray me.” And they were very sorrowful and began to say to him one after another, “Is it I, Lord?” He answered, “He who has dipped his hand in the dish with me will betray me. The Son of Man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.” Judas, who would betray him, answered, “Is it I, Rabbi?” He said to him, “You have said so.” Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and after blessing it broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, “Take, eat; this is my body.” And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, “Drink of it, all of you, for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. I tell you I will not drink again of this fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.”
1 Corinthians 11:23-26 ESV
For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body, which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” [26] For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.
The last supper is very much biblical
They weren’t saying the event called the last supper wasn’t in the bible, but that the artistic depiction of that event, “The Last Supper”, isn’t a part of the Christian religion. It is a painting.
It’s a painting of a scene from the Bible, though
A painting by a homosexual naturalist scientist that constantly gets co-opted by the church. Religious folk are so ridiculous on what you choose to get your feathers ruffled over. It’s just a stupid painting that he made to experiment with new materials for fresco murals.
I think religion is hogwash but criticizing a famous depiction of an event that happened in the Bible because it’s not actually being part of the Bible strikes me as desperate.
Nah. It’s something they don’t get bent out of shape for for any other religious artwork. Like nobody is up in arms about the memes of that shitty restoration of the picture of Jesus
There’s plenty of satirical art/speech/expression about Christianity and people don’t go through life being enraged at all of it until they’re told to have that opinion by media.
Plus, from what I understand, the only “sacrilegious” element was that there were drag performers doing it? There’s not even anything inherently anti-christian there except in that wearing the other gender’s clothing is prohibited in like 3 verses. But again, people aren’t typically upset by the identity of the author except in this case. Christians are only so vehemently anti-drag in the US because of media spoon feeding them opinions.
Other examples they dont get mad about
Or infinitely many others including one with RuPaul, futurama, rick and morty, marvel, the charmin bears, pretty much any IP you can name has a version of this somebody made of it that is equally “sacrilegious”.
I’m not defending their anti drag position, it is ridiculous.
But they find drag to be an affront to their beliefs, and thus them making fun of the last supper is offensive in this case (it isn’t making fun of it, which I just learned, I’m speaking hypothetically here) and maybe not when it is referenced humorously in others.
It’s like some white person getting up on stage and doing jokes about living fried chicken and watermelon. Maybe some people are mildly put off by it but most would just think it dumb. But put that white guy in black face and all of a sudden it’s a lot more offensive. I’m not equating these two, just pointing out how context matters.
But I’m not even sure why that matters here because the statement was that it really isn’t part of the bible, when it’s clearly depicting a major moment in the Bible.
Not true, you were defending their anti drag position. Still am, a little because you don’t understand how to back down
It’s possible to understand that something offends a person, and think it wrong to intentionally offend them, and at the same time find it ridiculous that it does.
You’d be surprised how much of the belief was added as expansion packs by the early church.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea
The painting is just another notable addition to the cinematic universe.
We don’t talk about the rival fanfic, or the original book fans. It’s not as good as ours. And our main character in the sky is totally different.
I’ve never met a conservative who didn’t want to burn most paintings.
How does ignorant, fabricated hate get so many upvotes here?
Just a product of people having an overconfidence in themselves being right (and therefore good) while those that disagree are wrong (and therefore wrong).
The irony is that the most batshit insane MAGAs have the same thought process. Liberal tears and all that.
This is a “conservative tears” kind of thing. It’s a “they take the low road, we also take the low road” kind of strategy which only gives credence to the usually fallacious “both sides” arguments.
General lack of critical thinking skills. If you want a tolerant society, actively disrespecting the beliefs of others probably isn’t the best way to go about it.
lol. you are so fucking naive. you think they’ll return the favor if we respect their idiotic beliefs? do you think that aliens are going to land and take our side because we took ‘the high road’? there’s only one solution for christian conservatives.
Yup. Maga supporters are some of the worst I’ve come across. But what I’ve learned, especially on Lemmy, is that it’s not even remotely isolated to them.
It was not the last supper but a representation of the greek god Bacchus, since of course the Olympics have a greek origin. I find it funny that christians got so triggered.
No, the blue smurf dude was Bacchus. This was a different part.
Blue dude is Philippe Katerine. He is know for doing weird things. About his show in the ceremony he declared to the press “I was cold and I liked it” article in French
He was also delighted that Musk was shocked. Katherine is,rightfully, quite popular around here.
A lot of Christians don’t realize how heavily influenced their religion is is by other more pagan and polytheistic religions.
Seriously, just look up images for “Isis and child Horus”, for instance.
Without context he only way to tell if it’s Christian or ancient Egyptian is the hat, if present.
I’m a Christian for 13 years, I see this all the time Nowadays and it actually fortifies my beliefs even more, because our bible and particularly our Jesus, said would happen in the last days before he returns. If only you all had faith you could appreciate the magnitude of what’s to come, heaven isn’t a place in the sky, it’s another world ruled by aliens thar have been around long enough to create us and this entire universe.
Hilarious comment from an article I read. Meanwhile,I thought Da Vinci was excommunicated.
I just wish these people had reading comprehension beyond a third grader so they could actually read that awful book (the Bible)
Even in you take everything in it at face value, it’s not even a good story (overall), and all of the little stories are shit.
Christians need to: first, read the Bible, and the second, read a few pieces of classic literature. Your book is shit, most of it doesn’t even make sense
I have read the Bible and cried because of how beautiful it is but okay
The owner of the house went outside and said to them, “No, my friends, don’t be so vile. Since this man is my guest, don’t do this outrageous thing. 24 Look, here is my virgin daughter, and his concubine. I will bring them out to you now, and you can use them and do to them whatever you wish. But as for this man, don’t do such an outrageous thing.”
25 But the men would not listen to him. So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go. 26 At daybreak the woman went back to the house where her master was staying, fell down at the door and lay there until daylight.
27 When her master got up in the morning and opened the door of the house and stepped out to continue on his way, there lay his concubine, fallen in the doorway of the house, with her hands on the threshold. 28 He said to her, “Get up; let’s go.” But there was no answer. Then the man put her on his donkey and set out for home.
29 When he reached home, he took a knife and cut up his concubine, limb by limb, into twelve parts and sent them into all the areas of Israel. 30 Everyone who saw it was saying to one another, “Such a thing has never been seen or done, not since the day the Israelites came up out of Egypt. Just imagine! We must do something! So speak up!”
Beautiful 🥲
That’s like looking at a beautiful art piece and focusing on the tiny stain from the time when it was being painted that someone looking at it spilled coffee on it 🤣
Oh you meant the beautiful parts of the new testament where it tells women to cover their hair and says they’re not allowed to speak in public if they’re with their husbands! So beautiful
I think you’re referring to the rules surrounding the church in Corinth as to maintain dignity and order, but feel free to take anything out of context 🤣
“dignity and order”
So you’re not as stupid as you seem, but you are as bigoted.
So, in order to maintain dignity and order, you believe women should be covered up and silent, or what?
what is undignified about women talking? please be specific.
Except that piece of art isn’t guiding millions of people’s beliefs. What a dumb statement.
And what if it did?
Then it should be condemned and called out for the hate and bigotry that it represents. Lol. Not a hard concept.
I particularly like Revelation of St John when the good Lord smites degenerates with fire and brimstone.
There’s actually a lot of interesting stuff in the text when you learn how to spot it between the lines of the revisionism. Both OT and NT.
The problem is you basically only have two camps.
One, that thinks the text as it exists today represents an unadulterated divine transmission.
And the other, that thinks anything to do with it is worthless nonsense.
So there’s very few people actually looking at it in between those two extremes, with most engaged with the material clustering around the former, or at very least with an anchoring and survivorship bias around the former cluster.
We’re left with audiences for the text that on both sides would be incredulous at the idea that, say, the Exodus narrative was in part an appropriation of the LBA/Early Iron Age sea peoples history when they were forcibly relocated into cohabitation with the Israelites, or say, that Jesus was taking about evolution with the sower parable.
Even though both those things have very compelling cases that can be made given emerging available evidence, the discussion is all about the acceptance or wholesale rejection of canon with little to no discussion of what actually exists in the absence of the BS.
It’s most disappointing for the latter group though. While I kind of get the way the trauma of proselytizing and indoctrination turns minds off to anything connected with the material, it’s very frustrating that what should be the healthy opposition cedes so many claims of authenticity to the faithfully blind.
I strongly, vehemently disagree. I could probably count the number of “good” stories. I.e.: actually make sense, aren’t just complete idiocy, aren’t in the Old Testament because everything that happens in that part is somehow simultaneously horrific, disgusting, incestuous, genocidal… And yet still so goddamn fucking boring… I can count those ones on one hand.
It’s almost entirely complete nonsense. Even the parts that are meant to be historical records “x beget y blah blah” are bullshit. Dozens of pages of alleged family trees, and none of it adds up. Oh yeah and people lived well into their mid -100s because why not. What the fuck is that?
The entity that we’re meant to want to worship after reading is described with such petty human emotions as jealously and rage. He is responsible for numerous genocides, child murder (large and small scale). The book of Job is an awful story of ruining the life of his most loyal follower (including murdering his family) just to prove to the devil that he’d remain faithful. So fucking stupid. Noah’s Ark has to be one of the most nonsensical stories ever and so many fucking people think it’s literally true.
Meanwhile, the “adversary,” the ultimate evil killed how many in the Bible again? What did he do other then just tell Eve that she actually could eat a piece of fruit from a tree if she wanted (the fact that the forbidden fruit would allow humans to discern good from evil isn’t sketchy at all). Who’s the bad guy again?
And these are the “interesting” parts. The other 95% is just garbage.
And no, Jesus isn’t any better. Unless you’re cool with slavery I guess…
Actually, the book of Job is nearly verbatim a combination of the opening of the Canaanite A Tale of Aqhat where Anat petitions El to kill the son of Danel as the lead in to a near copy of the dialogue on suffering of the Babylonian Theodicy. With what appears a sloppy edit to make it monotheistic later on, changing Anat from being a different god to simply ‘adversary’ and spawning fanfiction for millennia.
Understanding the context helps a lot in meaningful analysis.
Without the context, yeah, a lot can go over your head and it just seem pointless.
Edit: And Noah’s ark was likely originally a famine story before being turned into an adaptation of the Babylonian flood mythos.
Edit 2: And the eating of the fruit by the first two people was probably adapted from the Phonecian creation myth around the first man and woman with the woman discovering the technology of eating fruit from the trees.
The interesting context, I appreciate. The subtle condescension, not so much… I’m well aware that Christianity was cobbled together like Frankenstein’s Monster using various parts of existing religions and pagan traditions. I assure you that these stories have not gone over my head.
You seem to think that the main issues I have with these stories are: the questions of historical veracity; or whether they were original stories. It’s really not. Sure, for stories like Noah’s Ark, where we know for certain it didn’t happen.
Or how we can say with near-certainty that Moses never parted the Red Sea, and crushed “Pharaoh’s’” army (side note: it’s funny to me how they always just call them that in the Bible. Just, “Pharaoh”. And I guess we’re supposed to pretend that we don’t know they had names and histories known to us?).
How do we know? Because their remains would be all over the bottom of the sea. Also, I’m pretty sure that Egypt, during the times when Pharaohs ruled, was known for keeping pretty good records. No historical record that the Exodus of the Jewish people from Egypt even exists. In fact, there’s no record of these Hebrew slaves, period.
Anyway, I digress…
And Noah’s ark was likely originally a famine story before being turned into an adaptation of the Babylonian flood mythos.
Throwing these claims out with zero sources or backup? Like c’mon guy (or gal, etc.) that’s quite the stretch. Let’s see the the sources.
I guess all of this was to say that I find the meanings and lessons of these stories to be downright appalling. Whether or not Job was a real bloke isn’t really the point.
No historical record that the Exodus of the Jewish people from Egypt even exists. In fact, there’s no record of these Hebrew slaves, period.
As I said in my earlier comment, this narrative was probably appropriated from the forced relocation of the sea peoples into the southern Levant. The Egyptians do have extensive records of conflict with them, who they note in that conflict were without foreskins (as opposed to the partial circumcision more common at the time), and there’s an emerging picture of Aegean cohabitation with the Israelites in the early Iron Age along with Anatolian trade with an area where the Denyen were talking about their founding leader Mopsus.
Here’s the source for the Noah’s Ark as originally a famine narrative: https://scholar.harvard.edu/dershowitz/publications/man-land-unearthing-original-noah
You’re welcome to find the material as you like, but I’m telling you that there’s a lot more value to careful analysis of it within it’s broader context than you (and many others) seem to think. Whether you find that stance condescending or not.
Imagine you’re the master race, confident and strong and then some people wear different clothes than you expected on TV and your whole world is just shattered lol.
I find it funny that this is what they’re up in arms about, not the happy little threesome. I saw it and was shocked that NBC actually aired it, because that’s just much too controversial for we puritanical Americans to handle.
Dipshits don’t even get it’s this based on this painting https://musee-magnin.fr/en/node/19 which is in a French museum, about the gods of Olympus, and includes the lyre you see in the recreation. It’s not the last supper which is in Italy and not in France. Similar framing of course - clearly on purpose - but who cares. What dumbasses, outrage machine go burrr
Let me explain it this way. If I am going to sit somewhere, if we as left leaning individuals are going to sit and say “it’s not what you say it’s how others take it and be sensitive to that” then we need to follow the same rules.
If I tell a joke or do something that others take offense to, then maybe it wasn’t ok to say that, or to have done that.
If I am going to tell people to pay attention to how others respond to what they are doing or saying. Then i need to follow those same rules.
It is not ok for me to tell another person, you can’t say that (what ever that thing is) because of how others are viewing it or how it makes them feel. Then turn around and say but i can do what ever I want even if it offends others.
It is not relevant if we are talking about drag, or trans people, or black people, or minorities, or white people, or religions. What is relevant is that we are running around saying “you can’t do that because it is offending others”. Yet look through this thread, go all the way up to my top comment and look at all the responses. Notice something? People are acting like this was totally ok even though there are a shit ton of people that it offended.
So it’s ok for the left to put in rules that says “you can’t do that because it is offending others, but we the left can do what ever we want”. That makes sense?
and you are telling me to change my tune?
It wasn’t the last supper or anything with Christianity. Maybe if they were actually educated instead of being anti-schooling…
Maybe if they were actually educated instead of being anti-schooling…
Half of “Against School” is incredibly based, half is a bit rambly.
Is there a way to read the thread without having an X account? Because all I see is the first post saying it’s supposed to be the other picture and they don’t look that similar to me. I’m guessing he goes on to explain some of the context? In other self replies that I can’t read?
I wish people would stop using X/Twitter because of this kind of shit. Everyone needs to move over to Mastadon or at least Blue Sky, something I can read without having an account and being logged in.
Yes, here’s the unroll…
Thanks!
I saw people pissed off about this on social media last night. I didn’t even really understand what they were upset about. Other than the fact that it’s a handful of people sitting at a table, I didn’t really see any similarities with the Last Supper. Christians don’t own the concept of people sitting on the same side of a table.
TV shows put all the people on one side of a dinner table all the time - because of camera/blocking reasons. Is every episode of Eight Is Enough blasphemous?
I would like to hear from the actual people, rather than some historian just coming up with something that could be an excuse.
Additionally, I regularly go to museums, I took art elective art classes in both HS and college, including art history, and I’ve never seen this painting. Im willing to bed 99% of people haven’t even heard of the artist. So attacking people for not making this connection ss “ignorant” seems to be a bit much.
Here you go…
Conservative critics widely denounced the act, featuring Katerine lounging on a table surrounded by drag queens, as mocking the Last Supper. But director Thomas Jolly told BFM-TV on Sunday that his inspiration was not the iconic New Testament scene painting by Leonardo da Vinci, but “a pagan feast linked” to the gods of Olympus.
“I’m a bit of an exhibitionist,” said Katerine, 55, whose modesty as Dionysus, the god of fertility, ecstasy and wine, was covered by a meager garland of leaves and fruit.
Thanks.
It is not relevant if we are talking about drag, or trans people, or black people, or minorities, or white people, or religions.
then why are you doing that?
also, username checks out.
Religion has been behind so much discrimination over the centuries. I, as a leftist, will never care to not offend religion.
Also I’m very strongly of the opinion that being a leftist is about ending capitalism. The acceptance/bigotry spectrum is a different axis. And while ending bigotry is an important fight, it’s a separate one from ending capitalism.
You’re right, what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. And in that spirit, I will treat these complaints exactly the way right wingers treat it when others point out that they’re being offensive and gross.
In other words, I will mock you for being offended and suggest that you’re trying to kill free speech any time you try to voice your point of view.
hard disagree. you assume that if you give them the same respect that you ask for, that they will give it back in return. you’re talking about christians. they just want to subjugate everyone else to their standard of living.
nope. fuck them. they are the enemy. they are the barrier to living in a better world. they do not understand cultural differences and don’t want to. they are a problem to be solved, not a class of people who must be tolerated. goose and gander thinking will get you nowhere.
so because I’m a christian … it’s fuck me? ignoring the fact that i do my best to treat everyone equally. ignoring the fact that I want a constitutional amendment that says “on average for a given voting precinct the people shouldn’t be standing in line for 8 hours, the average should only be 30 minutes so minorities aren’t disenfranchised from voting” … ignoring the fact that I believe everyone should have the right to marry who ever they choose (as long as they are consenting adults… your statement is
“you’re talking about christians, they just want to subjugate everyone else… fuck them”
that’s also ignoring the fact that I do not believe that the bible should be taught in public school.
you didn’t say some christians are that way … you basically said all christians. … so it’s fuck me. … nice way to enter the conversation there.
ACAB
If the offense is that something exists, it’s not worth bowing down to. If the offense is that it is potentially harmful or dangerous, then it should be considered. Conservatives don’t get to just say they’re offended by others and get them to disappear.
Btw, someone saying something in the past doesn’t make it true.
Well, that’s a horrible argument.
Paradox of tolerance doesn’t really have an argument other than it being declared “this is what happens when you tolerate intolerance”
Good point… So how does that relate to this thread?
Why can’t drag queens portray the last supper, even make fun of it, when
a) Jeezy Creezy himself invited sex workers to his shin digs. Also cracked a few jokes himself (“Why were you looking for me? I was in my father’s house”)
b) veggie tales is about sentient vegetables giving Bible lessons, Narnia is about a fursona giving Bible lessons
c) if Jesus can take being crucified I imagine he can take a joke
Paradox of tolerance. Christians are actively trying to invite violence against LGBT people by calling them groomers. That’s the basis of their outrage, so it is simple to dismiss it as hateful or inauthentic.
I kind of see where you are coming from, but doesn’t it make a difference WHY somebody is offended?
If I, for eclxsmple, use the N-Word, the offence this rightfully causes is rooted in it being used to speak about slaves in the past. I can understand that. I understand why this could hurt black peoples feeling. So I don’t use it.
The root of offence on the Paris case seemes to be that some Christian Fundamentalist (wrongly) think that Drag-People imitated the last Supper. Their offence is based in them hating Drags. That is nothing I can emphatize with. So I don’t see their offence beeing justified, since It is rooted in hate.
Would they be offended if white males immitated the last supper during the ceremony? Possible, and if so then I’d be interested to hear on what basis, since the scene has been mimiced in pop culture a lot without it causing any offence (on a level that would have made it noticeable to me).
Ao that’s the difference. I don’t blindly stop to do things the left labels as offensive. But If I understand how and why it causes people harm using phrases or doing things then I might change my behaviour on that base. Not because “the left says so” but because I can emphatize and understand the point. In this case I can do neither.
People who get upset over everything are upset. More at 11.
I’m not exactly the most religious person, but this seems to be step one in how to piss off a nice chunk of those watching.
Not the route I would have gone.
Drag cabaret was huge in France in the 1940s and 1950s and has continued to this day, so that part is not really especially weird or or provocative.
But then they decided to mix it with Paris Fashion Week and that made it far less interesting, at least to me.
It was made to kind of piss right wing people, yes
Just curious would it have been ok if was designed to piss off left wingers? Or done to make fun of black people or trans people?
The ceremony pissed off right wingers by not bending to their demands for censorship of anything that their religious beliefs tells them should be censored. Bending to those demands would essentially allow them to force their religious beliefs on others.
You suggested to piss off left wingers by bullying ostracized groups of people or being downright racist.
You can see how those are not the same.
Everything you listed is on different plains of existence.
The left isn’t there to tell others what to do. It’s here to push back on the right’s encroachment. So be it.
Neither black nor trans people choose to be who they are but being a right-wing Christian is a conscious choice people make every day. These people wake up and choose every type of violence.
Why would it be ok to piss off anyone else but the perpetrators?
If they did it to Muslims, theyd get a repeat of Charlie Hebdo. And if I didnt know better, Id say they were making fun of trans people, in a really gross transphobic way
Because some of them are even more childish than the christians?
Do you know what Charlie Hebdo was?
Well they can be pissed or grow up then I guess lol getting angry over a performance on tv, what are they, 6 years old?
Mentally, yes. Lol
If you can’t figure out to not take someone belief system or identity and use it… If you can’t figure out why that might piss people off let me help you.
If I as a heterosexual white male put on black face and dressed up in American Indian garb I’m pretty sure people would get pissed.
There are certain lines you just don’t cross.
Still here you are trying to piss off people. Why don’t you change your tune, eh?
Mocking someone for who they are (their race) and for their choice (the cult they joined) are entirely different things.
And religion, favorite Jolly Rancher flavor, or what car you drive is not one of them. Those are all conscious choices.
