WillBalls

Of course not! Just because he didn’t write it doesn’t mean you can’t imagine it. It just means there’s no precedent for it, so you have to be creative

Morgoth did indeed have a body for the entirety of the war of wrath.

I believe that in Tolkien’s writings, the only Ainur that lost their bodies were Sauron (during the fall of Númenor, then when the ring was destroyed), Saruman (killed by Grima), Gothmog (killed by drowning/stabbed in the fountain during the fall of Gondolin), Durin’s Bane (killed by Gandalf the grey), and possibly an unnamed balrog (if indeed dead, then slain by Glorfindel during the fall of Gondolin). There’s some mention in Melkor’s Ring(?) that during Melkor’s first chaining, his original body was slain, but I’m not sure if that’s backed up by other writings about his first chaining. Regardless, it’s a pretty small club of fëa separated Ainur, so I’d think that if there was a benefit to splitting from the hröa, it would be made clear

To my knowledge, Tolkien never wrote about a battle between an unbodied fëa and a hröa

The lore reason is essentially that defeating Sauron was mankind’s coming-of-age story (the age of elves was ending, and mankind was set to take over control of middle earth), and having a bunch of maiar come in and wreck Sauron wouldn’t teach men to stand up for what’s right. Instead, Eru told Manwë to send the istari to guide men and elves to defeat Sauron on their own

The “real” reason is that it wouldn’t be a very good story if Manwë just sniped Sauron from the hidden West with magic

You raise a really good point on what the passage of time must feel like to young elves. I’d like to think that elves younger than 1000 years are treated with lots of eye rolls from their elders for brashness, similar to Treebeard telling Merry and Pippin to not be so hasty

Definitely both 😎

I get what you’re saying, but it doesn’t work that way in middle earth according to Tolkien. We have lots of instances of Ainur vs Ainur combat where they don’t pop out of their hröa for more power. The best example is the war of wrath where the host of the valar (including Eönwë, a Maia) goes against Morgoth, the mightiest of the valar, and there’s no mention of that happening. It could be that Tolkien omitted it, but that’s a big enough fight that I think it would have been mentioned if it occured

I think I understand what you mean. A physical body does obey laws of physics and thus restricts the “true freedom” of a whisp or spirit. However, a hröa can also focus and direct the energies innate to a fëa, which could make the being more powerful. In Fëanor’s case, his fëa was the brightest and strongest of all the elves, and when he died, his hröa actually disintegrated due to the power of his fëa leaving, so one could argue (without much evidence) that his spirit was stronger than a physical body could truly handle (but this falls apart when looking at Morgoth or the other Vala’s bodies that don’t burn up).

There’s not a lot of text specifically surrounding the fëa and hröa, but some of it can be gleaned from the silmarillion, or unfinished tales. Tolkien liked his mysticism a lot more in the earlier drafts of the legendarium, so unfinished tales will probably suit you more (although some of those drafts aren’t considered “canon” in light of the silmarillion’s later publishing and research, but that’s another matter entirely).

You’re exactly right with Sauron. He was originally able to shape shift into anything (fun fact: his first appearance was Tevildo Lord of cats, then altered to Thû the necromancer who could turn into a werewolf, then finally Sauron), but after the fall of Númenor, he lost that ability and was left with his body looking dark and evil. By pouring his fëa into the one ring, he risked total doom by its destruction since he wouldn’t have enough power left to maintain even a spiritual form on middle earth.

I don’t think there’s any evidence that a Maiar with a hröa is weaker than a Maia without a hröa. There’s no interaction between a pure fëa Ainur and an embodied Ainur, so there’s no way to get a definitive answer. I would say that without a hröa, the fëa can’t be “focused” and is therefore weaker (from the wiki (no source provided): “According to the Elves, the fëa is powerless without the hröa, and likewise the latter would die without the former.”)

Huh I guess you’re right, my bad. 1000 years is definitely long for men, but I’d say midish for elves ¯\(ツ)/¯

To be fair, the istari were diminished Maiar who weren’t allowed to use their full power, and Sauron was a full Maia with no qualms about flexing his true strength.

Had Manwë been given the license to send just Eönwë, then Sauron would’ve been rekt in a year tops

As stated in unfinished tales, Gandalf didn’t know that Bilbo would find the ring on the adventure. He originally wanted to help Thorin since having dwarves in the lonely mountain would prevent Sauron from attacking Gondor and Lothlórien from the north. The ring finding it’s way to Gollum and then Bilbo was almost definitely due to slight meddling from Eru (just as Gollum’s death was due to Eru loosening the rocks under his feet) so Gandalf could orchestrate the fellowship’s journey.

There’s no exact details given for what the blue wizards (the two in the east) were up to. Tolkien only said they were sewing dissent against Sauron

I haven’t read anything in the legendarium that supports your theory that the hröa (body in quenya) restricts the fëa (soul).

All beings in Arda initially had hröar, but hröar are susceptible to harm regardless of the status of the fëa within (see Morgoth’s wounds, and Sauron and Saruman’s deaths) that could cause the fëa to become unbodied. In the case of the fëa becoming unbodied, the fëa would have to be powerful enough to exist on its own, create a new body (Sauron after the fall of Númenor), be otherwise tied to the world (Sauron after the war of the last alliance with the one ring), or dissipate into nothing (Sauron after the destruction of the one ring and Saruman after his death by Grima’s)

The second age ended with the ending of the war of the last alliance, so Gandalf did arrive later, but “long after”

The balrogs were fire maia that were corrupted by Melkor into beings of fire cloaked in shadow. I interpret that to mean they’re primarily beings of fire that “wear” shadow over themselves (which composes their wings)

That’s a really interesting point. Ungoliant kind of exists outside the established power structure of the Ainur, considering she came from outside Arda, but was never mentioned as participating in the first music of the Ainur (there’s no real established origin for Ungoliant, other than “evil spirit from outside the bounds of Arda”). No matter who you are, being called to fight “unknowable ancient Eldritch spider deity” is a pretty horrifying task, and Melkor was even known to have fear when facing much smaller enemies.

One interesting point is how much emphasis Tolkien puts on Ungoliant’s powers being focused around darkness and “unlight”. Balrogs, being spirits of fire, seem like a natural enemy to a creature of pure darkness, so that might have boosted their comparative power against Ungoliant despite their low numbers.

Another thing to consider is that Melkor was never known to show understanding or mercy to his servants who failed him. I would have to think that any balrog who failed to come to his aid would have been killed (or worse as you postulate) as soon as Morgoth was freed.

It’s been a few years since I’ve read the foreword to the Silmarillion, but I’m glad I’m consistent with Christopher’s analysis 😁

It’s similar to searching for consistencies amongst any mythology, which is what Tolkien was attempting to create. Tales will always change over time, and they’ll always shift focus to what the teller determines is important. As focuses of a society shift, so do the focuses of its related mythology. In this way, I think Tolkien did an excellent job creating a united mythos for England in all the different versions of his legendarium. As the tales evolved, consistencies emerged elements which were formerly key, were discarded, and internal references became more commonplace than external references (see Tolkien’s influences from William Morris and Icelandic, Celtic, Germanic, and Anglo Saxon epics)

In the Second Prophecy of Mandos (present in most versions of Tolkien’s Quenta Silmarillion, but omitted from the final Silmarillion due to a perceived incompatibility by Christopher Tolkien), it’s mentioned that Melkor will emerge from the door of night after the world and it’s powers grow old and weary (the powers being the Ainur, which includes the Balrogs). This indicates that even the gods will grow old and fade as the elves do, which could imply that Durin’s Bane is actually just faded and weakened from age and inactivity, since the balrog was sleeping under the mountain for ~5400 years (assuming it participated in the final battle of the war of wrath and hid itself under Khazad-dûm immediately after Melkor’s expulsion). Also, there were no more than 3 or 7 balrogs ever according to later writings by Tolkien, which indicates that no balrog was weak or cowardly.

In regards to Melkor’s wailing and summoning of the balrogs: Ungoliant ensnared Melkor in Lammoth, which is described as being near the ruins of Angband where the balrogs awaited Melkor’s return. It is said that the balrogs rushed swiftly to Melkor’s aid, but there is no indication that the wailing was short. In fact, Lammoth is also known as the land of “the Great Echo” where the wailing of Melkor could still be heard ever after, which to me indicates that the wails were prolonged and intense rather than a swift “yelp” followed by a rescue. With this interpretation, it makes sense to me that the balrogs marched quickly, but still took time to rescue Melkor, which would eliminate the possibility of teleportation or sonic the hedgehog running.

Another interesting writing to note is the involvement of balrogs riding flying fire drakes in the Fall of Gondolin. Now, the Fall of Gondolin is definitely an unfinished tale, and was “neglected” more than the other two great tales/lays of Tolkien’s later focus, but there are still consistencies between versions that indicate a certainty of specific elements in Tolkien’s mind. In each version, there is mention of balrogs riding to battle atop flying fire drakes to assail the city while orcs and trolls attempt to break the walls. This would indicate to me that balrogs could not fly unaided, which would make any wings they have vestigial (unlikely since they are divine), or more a “cloak” of fire.

That was something I actually really liked about old Twitter: with only 140 characters (or whatever the original limit was), you really couldn’t add the extra fluff to soften your opinion. You just said what you meant as succinctly as possible and let the masses react as they will.

I’d like to think it forced more people to go “mask off” with their opinions and stop hiding behind fluff, but it also perpetuated an attitude of toxicity that made Twitter ripe for extremist exploitation

I’ve never done it and now I feel bad :(

This is one interpretation of the story, but definitely not the accepted interpretation amongst the varying sects of Christianity.

Catholicism espouses that Mary was without sin, and Protestants generally disagree (Lutherans being the notable exception). They also believe that the trinity is intertwined yet separate (God is the father, Jesus the son, and the spirit a procession of both)

Most protestant sects generally believe that Mary was not without sin, but did indeed become pregnant without sex. They consider Jesus the biological son of God, and therefore fully human and fully divine (this is supposed to be a paradox and not make sense). Jesus is affirmed to be God’s actual son in all 4 gospels and several of the Epistles.

There doesn’t need to be a “logical” explanation free of contradictions and impossibilities in Jesus’s origin, simply due to the fact that he is God, and therefore above human understanding.

Source: I grew up in the church and was surrounded by theologians against my will. I got out, but the knowledge is still knocking around in my head.