Not like “I went to school with one” but have had an actual friendship?
I’ve had a couple of conversations recently where people have confidently said things about the Black community that are ridiculously incorrect. The kind of shit where you can tell they grew up in a very white community and learned about Black history as a college freshman.
Disclaimer: I am white, but I grew up in a Black neighborhood. I was one of 3 white kids in my elementary school lol, including my brother.
Growing up one of my best friends was African American, but we lost contact after elementary school. Don’t have a clue how to contact him or if he’d even want to get in touch, though.
My brother did see him at his job and he remembered my brother, so there’s that. I wish him well, but I don’t know if I can handle bringing back old friends into my life because of how awkward it would be for me, as someone who doesn’t handle awkward well.
been living with a black woman for many years
I know a couple of black people, but none of them is African-American.
I was born in the US, in Mississippi, but moved to Boston, Massachusetts, as a young adult. A significant portion of my friends were black as a child, and then I fell in with an international community of Haitian-, Nigerian-, and Latin-Americans when I moved to South Boston.
As with anywhere, most people are nice if you express interest in them and their cultures. There will be preconceived notions for some people towards you, and it’s important to understand that most stigmas stem from an absence of interaction. It can be surprisingly easy to break those barriers if you just make any sort of effort. It can be hard, but it’s so worth it. The kindest people I have met have been from these communities, mostly I think because they’ve worked so hard to build a better life for themselves and their families and friends.
Few things are as rewarding as being accepted into different communities. You learn and experience so much that you wouldn’t otherwise. My favorite experiences have been meeting the families of friends, being invited to cookouts with traditional foods and drink you have never had, and having an incredibly reliable community to lean on in times of hardship - we all help each other because we’re all in the rat race together. All it takes is some humility and a willingness to learn.
I know a couple. One was from Kenya, the other Sudan. I know a dozen or so Black Americans, several of which I have heard out right laugh at “African-American.”
Part of the problem is that the link to Africa was severed when their ancestors came here as slaves. Acknowledging that is pretty vital…
Yeah, I generally refer to the descendants of American slaves as Black (with a capital B) but I wanted my post title to be more recognizable to non-American audiences.
Same. My cousins are half black. I always like seeing them. But they don’t really have any connection to Africa beyond their blood (which if you think about it we all do), and we live in Canada, not America. Their dad is from Barbados.
What you describe is world wide problem.
We don’t have much black people here (it is more curiosity than “the shit” you refer to) but there are some other groups like Roma people and recently Ukrainians, that gets to be the political punch bag.
And yes I know some people from these groups. I am pretty open minded and I see homelessness, excluded communities and stuff like that mostly as social or information problem.
Open mindedness is the key though. I don’t know, and have never known, any Japanese people more than a passing acquaintance. But I don’t go around confidently discussing aspects of Japanese culture. When I talk about Japan, I’ll say stuff like “I’ve heard” or “my impression is”.
I have had close friendships with two black people. One was originally from Usa (which probably qualified him as African American for your question), the other was originally fom Nigeria, but was a German citizen.
I live in Germany btw. where nearly everybody has white skin color.
Right, I know we have a lot of international users here on lemmy, so I wanted to specify Black Americans, the descendents of slaves. For instance, one of my friends and coworkers is a very dark skinned Tunisian, but that’s a very different culture than the one I was asking about.
No, I am only German, not international.
Do you exist in a nation?
Yes, I exist.
Then you are international.
intranational. Easy mistake.
Whether you intend it or not, this comes across like you think “America is the default, everyone else is international”.
USA is also a nation, following your logic, Americans are also internationals. Everyone is international, the word no longer has meaning.
Americans are also internationals
Correct.
the word no longer has meaning
Incorrect.
*whoosh*
oh wow, it’s been like a decade since I saw someone do a “*whoosh*”
Did you just praise yourself for doing a thing you hadn’t seen in a long time?
Based move on their part, even if I do not agree on the ‘whoosh’, hahahah
I grew up in a country where there was no black people at all when I was born. It wasn’t till much later that black people could be seen about in larger cities as students or tourists, usually a bit of a tourist attraction themselves.
Whenever I went to the west my parents always asked if I saw any {hard r n-word}s about. I don’t think they even knew it was offensive.
I try my best as a progressive to be anti-racist, but I have no clue about black people honestly or what problems if any they face in the UK apart from discrimination by the police and home office, as people they seem alien and strange, and in London all PoC in general I saw seemed to have no interest in interacting outside of strictly religious/ethnic/national lines and i don’t mind that, though it did make uni cliques seem more like ethnostates.
It is very difficult to be anti-racist if you fundamentally don’t understand the struggles of the oppressed. Sometimes you can do more harm than good, despite your best intentions, simply because you have no knowledge of the issues.
The Ibram X. Kendi quote that spawned the idea (among white people) of anti-racism was a good one:
The opposite of racist isn’t ‘not racist.’ It is ‘anti-racist.’
But as a Black man, he inevitably approached the subject from a bone-deep understanding of racism almost from birth. I think he failed to consider people who were so far removed from the struggles of Black people that they legitimately had no understanding of the issue.
I think that if you are ignorant of the issues, or have a surface-level understanding (the white college kids I mentioned in the OP), it is sometimes best to simply be nonracist rather than anti-racist…or perhaps better to be anti-racist in the sense of “I oppose the concept of racism”. But this idea of “I must take action!!!” is…not terribly helpful if you have no idea what you’re doing. It’s like going to a poverty stricken neighborhood planning to build houses for the homeless, but you have no experience in carpentry or plumbing or roofing or anything. Your heart is in the right place, but please. Slow down. Take your cues from those who have lived through it.
or perhaps better to be anti-racist in the sense of “I oppose the concept of racism”.
True. To me it is this, and opposition to systemic structures that actively enable it, which often intersect with the same systems that enable other forms of oppression.
I firmly consider myself an ally. I do not know best, and I cannot really take action as I would not know what to do. I fully agree on that 👍
I live in a city immediately adjacent to one of the statistically blackest cities in America. I went to school in said black city for most of my childhood. I work in that city and have lots of black coworkers that I get along with just fine. My take? They’re just people like any other. Some of them are assholes. Some of them beat their wives. Some of them are total nerds. Some of them are the kind and intelligent. Some aren’t. Just like every other skin color. Black people are just people.
And yeah, people assume a lot of shit about them as a group and make idiotic blanket statements. I have some of my own preconceived notions in my head, and when they pop up in my head I remind myself how dumb it is to carry those.
I live in a city immediately adjacent to one of the statistically blackest cities in America.
Isn’t it terrible that my immediate reaction to this sentence was, “oh so you probably live in an extremely white area”?
I have some of my own preconceived notions in my head, and when they pop up in my head I remind myself how dumb it is to carry those.
That’s kind of what I’m getting at. It’s a constant thing that the human mind tends towards, and the best defense (imo) is personal experience. I always remember the gangbanger 19yo I knew, last I heard he was going to trial for an armed robbery, real “thug” type but he once confessed to me that he loved listening to pop music like Gotye and Katy Perry, but had to put on a real mean face when he was wearing his earbuds so his friends would think he was listening to rap. He wanted to open a barbershop and was teaching his little brother how to ride a bike.
You’re right, people are people. And they’re complex. Groups of people (race, culture, religion) are just complex groups of complex people.
I just wish people with no experience in a culture would take a step back and be a little less trusting of what they hear 3rd hand.
Posting my reply to someone else.
I was born in the US, in Mississippi, but moved to Boston, Massachusetts, as a young adult. I am mixed from white and pacific islander - I look mostly white, just with Asian features - but a significant portion of my friends were black as a child, and then I fell in with an international community of Haitian-, Nigerian-, and Latin-Americans when I moved to South Boston.
As with anywhere, most people are nice if you express interest in them and their cultures. There will be preconceived notions for some people towards you, and it’s important to understand that most stigmas stem from an absence of interaction. It can be surprisingly easy to break those barriers if you just make any sort of effort. It can sometimes be hard, but it’s so worth it. The kindest people I have met have been from these communities, mostly I think because they’ve worked so hard to build a better life for themselves and their families and friends.
Few things are as rewarding as being accepted into different communities. You learn and experience so much that you wouldn’t otherwise. My favorite experiences have been meeting the families of friends, being invited to cookouts with traditional foods and drink you have never had, and having an incredibly reliable community to lean on in times of hardship - we all help each other because we’re all in the rat race together. All it takes is some humility and a willingness to learn.
I feel like I’m losing that cultural flexibility. Not the cultural sensitivity, just the willingness to immerse myself in something different. Any tips for stepping out of your comfort zone?
Sure! It will be uncomfortable at first, and you will face some difficulties at first. The hardest thing is to build a friendship. But once you’re actually friends with someone, that’s your chance to fully dive in. Just be sure to learn and recognize any of your own unconscious biases and leave them at the door. Can’t realistically expect anyone else to accept you if you don’t do that first (this is for everyone. We all have these, which is why it’s important to recognize them and lose them)
I understand not all locales have this advantage, but I was fortunate that Boston often had festivals organized by these communities. If your city has any, go to them. Go to concerts, bars, community events, religious gatherings if you’re into it, or any other event where you can more easily interact with people. All it takes is to build one meaningful connection and then your network will naturally grow.
Ah that’s the thing, I’m in the opposite situation. I live in San Francisco, so I have more cultures than I can shake a stick at just in my immediate friend and coworker circle. My closest coworker is Tunisian, my roommate is Chilean, the guy I volunteer with is Estonian, the last girl I dated was Korean (all of which, meaning, immigrated to the US from those countries, not my ancestry is from so and so)…as I mentioned in the OP, I grew up in a very Black community…and yet, my closest friends are the most Starbucks white you can imagine.
Opportunity is not the issue. It’s the actual diving in. The familiar is comfortable.
Ahh, I see. Well, it’s natural to congregate to groups you’re similar to - no one likes feeling uncomfortable. But a couple months of being uncomfortable is what it takes. Find some sort of common ground and work from there. Even if you remove any biases of your own, there are those who won’t do the same for you. It isn’t right, but it’s understandable. If someone doesn’t reciprocate any meaningful interest, move on to the next person. It just takes persistence and the desire to interact with other cultures. As I mentioned in my post, building stigmas and unconscious biases down the road often happen because there’s little to no real personal interaction with other groups. Not saying you will, just something I’ve noticed in people through the years, no matter how well-intentioned they may be.
Excellent point. Maybe I can think of it like inoculation against bigotry.
Where I currently live, there is a decent sized community of people who immigrated from Jamaica. My friends who are black are almost all from this Jamaican group and will very directly tell you how you’re wrong if you call them african american instead of black.
One friend in particular is very good at telling me when I am wrong about her culture. Apparently, I absolutely ruined the red snapper dish I made by how I handled the eyeballs. She has shared this fact with her extended family. Her cousin now knows me as “the white girl who can’t cook snapper”. It’s all in good fun, food is the best way to bond across cultural lines, IMO, including when it involves a bit of teasing.
I grew up in a very white community. I didn’t have any black friends until I moved elsewhere for college. Idk, it doesn’t seem that difficult to me. I’m a woman and certainly don’t like men explaining my life experiences to me; so it’s quite natural for me to be empathetic to other groups by extension. I won’t say I’ve never made incorrect assumptions, but I try not to double down defensively when I’m informed that I am wrong.
Edit: ope, forgot about a high school friend who moved in, attended for a year, and moved away. She was such a good friend, I wish I had had the social skill wherewithall to keep in touch with her after she moved away. She identified as Nigerian american first, black second, never heard her call herself African american. I certainly learned some things about second-gen Nigerian american culture from her, and it was obvious it is not the same experience that every black person has.
Final note: who the hell is going to answer your question with a “yep, I have no African american friends but I hold strong opinions about their culture, like how they’re all into rap and basketball”?
I grew up in a very white community.
ope,
Everything checks out here
To be honest, I’m definitely expecting some assholes to show up with “I once walked past a Black man on the street, anyway here’s my manifesto on racism”.
What’s the proper way to handle the eyeballs?
Either leave them in or remove them and make a special little side dish, according to my friend. I removed them and didn’t do anything with them and that was a waste of perfectly good eyeballs.
Most of the younger family members don’t like the eyeballs. They leave them for the older folks. But they will still proudly correct me to defend their heritage, lol. Fine, my ancestors were big on head cheese; you won’t find me eating it, but I’m happy it exists somewhere out in the world.
Sounds nasty, but I’ll try anything once. Reminds me of what my 2nd generation Chinese coworkers say about chicken feet and other unusual Chinese food. On the other hand, everyone who’s tried lengua says it’s good but everyone who hasn’t gets the ick.
We don’t have African Americans here, we have black people. We don’t call them African Americans because most black people in my country are not from Africa (we have a large Caribbean population) and they are not American.
Always thought African American was a stupid term.
Black people have been friends & coworkers much of my life.
Where are they from? I’ve only ever seen “black” to mean African (or descendants of enslsved Africans), South Indian, or Aborigine.
Caribs, for example, are black.
I did not know that! I just assumed any black people in the Caribbean were descendents of slaves.
The descriptions in that article do not seem to depict them as “black”. More indigenous American, similar to the Taino.
My understanding still is that people in the Caribbean who look African are indeed descended from slaves unless they/their family emigrated from Africa more recently than that.
I told a coworker this once and they went from saying African Americans to just loudly whisper the word black like it was a derogatory term.
Generally speaking, Black people prefer to be called Black. I’ve had a few discussions over the years and Black works best because it’s not some made up white guilt term (African-American), and is capitalized in the same way that a nationality would be (Italian, Filipino).
Anyone who casually refers to Black people as “African-American” would probably answer “no” to this question. But I worded it that way to exclude a horde of Europeans talking about their coworkers who emigrated from Africa. Black descendents of enslaved Africans have a unique culture, and that’s who I was asking about.
I had maybe one that would actually fit your specific terms (though he preferred <adjective> Black Billy with the adjective usually being big or sexy). One of my good friends living in Texas was black, but he’d call himself a Black American or Cuban American rather than African American. In Japan, my black friends were (I moved to the middle of nowhere recently and don’t use social media, so friendships tend to fade) black men from Africa (mostly Tanzania).
I think African American is one of those terms that (a) is super American-centric and (b) isn’t something everyone would call themselves. You can actually read into how “Native Americans” feel about that term (many don’t like it, apparently, because America (the country being the US)) wasn’t the place they came from; they came from the land that their ancestors settled, not some stolen version of it. Some actually prefer “Indian” while others favor something more like “aboriginal peoples” or “first nations”.
I think African American is one of those terms that (a) is super American-centric and (b) isn’t something everyone would call themselves.
That’s correct, but if I just said “Black” then all the Europeans would come flooding in talking about their African coworkers. I’m specifically asking about the majority of black people in the US who are descended from slaves.
I was close friends with 2 black kids from across the street all through my school years, and another black dude in my neighborhood for a while in my adult years until they all moved away. But, like… There wasn’t much of a cultural difference from me; we were all “middle class” Californians.
I saw one of dudes from high school run into some racists yelling the N word at him once, but it was 2 skinny assholes vs like 7 of us and half of our group was on the football team so when we didn’t just ignore them, they pissed themselves and ran away.
Justice boner activated.
I live in Canada. In Canada we just call them “people” or “Canadians”.
I’ve met, worked, and work with African Americans in the US.
I’ve heard lots of racist whites call black people “Canadians” when they want to speak in code. e.g., “lots of Canadians here tonight.” You know what word they’re using behind closed doors.
Assholes are going to asshole.
Do you actually know any African Americans? I mean, surely they’re just Americans?
Are you like a Eurasian Steppes American or something? 😂
It’s ok, one day you’ll grow up and realize how cringe it is to pretend to not understand something just so you can do a “well ACKSHUALLY”
I’m near pension age, doughboy. Why can you not just forget about calling them African just because they’re black? I’d be fuming
My cousins are half black so my uncle is this HUGELY intimidating black dude lol and my best friend is half Nigerian
