Oh, I do think Trump is a fascist. (And Biden is supporting a fascist in Israel, so what’s the difference?)
What’s the difference between a fascist who has openly stated an intention to shift to unlimited support for Israel to ‘finish the job’ and someone who has expressed limited (if insufficient) support for restraining Israel?
I wonder. Or maybe it’s the difference between one openly stating an intention to end democracy here, in the US, while the other quite openly opposes the idea of ending democracy in the US?
I guess those are minor differences in the end. Who cares if fascism comes to America, right? It won’t affect the people voting to let it in.
Trump says murderers and rapists will pour across the border. You say Trump will bring in death camps. Aren’t you sick of all the scaremongering?
Wow, I’m so glad that the prospect of the death of minorities at the hands of a regime you yourself admit is fascist is equivalent to baseless right-wing claims of “murderers and rapists” pouring across the border. Great.
And even if death camps are a possibility, you’re asking me to weigh the possibility of death camps against a very real genocide that is happening right now.
I’m really not. I’m asking you to weigh one thing, and one thing only - what difference your vote and advocacy will make in this election.
As much as it would thrill me to have the American electorate take a sudden and sharp turn left, erasing the past several decades of voting trends, in the next four months, it is exceedingly unlikely, especially considering polling on the current issues that dominate people’s minds. Therefore, one must ask what the risks are for each realistic candidate’s victory.
For a Biden victory, the risk is insufficient opposition to the ongoing genocide in Gaza and a lack of substantive resolutions to any of the problems facing the US at this point in time.
For a Trump victory, the risk is total US support for the ongoing genocide in Gaza, the abolition of what democracy the US does have, genocide in Ukraine, sterilization camps for immigrants (we had those during the Trump years, before you cry “Well that’s just scaremongering”, it was kind of a big deal to those few of us who pay attention to politics in this country), a self-proclaimed ‘day-one dictator’, and everything in the fucking Project 2025 outline coming to fruition.
Voting third party on the presidential level in this election is nothing more than an abstain. “I don’t care which of those outcomes comes true.”
You’re trying to make this a false dichotomy. That’s a form of logical fallacy, and it’s manipulative.
It’s like those trolley problems about “do you throw the switch or not”? The thing I would do is try to fix the brakes. And if people on the track die, that is the fault of whoever tied them to the track, not me.
I’m not supporting either Trump or Biden, and neither should you.
You’re trying to say Trump is worse than Biden, and though I disagree with some of your points, it also doesn’t matter because I am not choosing either of them. I’m trying to fix the brakes.
You’re trying to make this a false dichotomy. That’s a form of logical fallacy, and it’s manipulative.
You do realize that not all dichotomies are false dichotomies, right?
Here - why don’t you outline a realistic plan that leads to neither Biden nor Trump being elected, and how you plan to achieve that. That way you can prove that “The two near-majority polling candidates, and the only two that will be on the ballot in every state, aren’t the only practical options”, and that you aren’t just misusing terms out of an ignorance of what they mean.
It’s like those trolley problems about “do you throw the switch or not”? The thing I would do is try to fix the brakes. And if people on the track die, that is the fault of whoever tied them to the track, not me.
It’s astounding that you manage to miss the entire point of a trolley problem.
why don’t you outline a realistic plan that leads to neither Biden nor Trump being elected
The Democrats replace Biden with a better candidate, like Gretchen Whitman.
(Not Gavin Newsom. He’s just as pro-Israel as Biden.)
and how you plan to achieve that
Why is that my job?
It’s astounding that you manage to miss the entire point of a trolley problem.
Internet memes about the trolley problem actually fail to present it completely. After the ponderer decides that killing one person is better than killing five people, they are then asked if it’s okay to push a bystander off a bridge onto the train tracks if that would derail the train and prevent it killing five people.
To me, the ultimate lesson of the trolley problem is that morality is not a matter of trading fewer lives for more lives. That’s why I’m not listening to your “Biden probably means fewer deaths than Trump” argument. Voting for either of them violates my sense of morality.
I’d rather work on dismantling the tracks, even if it might take a while.
Because you’re a citizen. That’s what being a citizen means. If you don’t want to share in political power, I’m given to understand there’s an wannabe autocrat who you’re currently assisting who will gladly take the ‘burden’ of responsibility away from you. That way when you smile at all the minorities being herded into death camps, you can say “Don’t worry! It wasn’t my decision!” as you close the gate behind them.
Internet memes about the trolley problem actually fail to present it completely. After the ponderer decides that killing one person is better than killing five people, they are then asked if it’s okay to push a bystander off a bridge onto the train tracks if that would derail the train and prevent it killing five people.
To me, the ultimate lesson of the trolley problem is that morality is not a matter of trading fewer lives for more lives. That’s why I’m not listening to your “Biden probably means fewer deaths than Trump” argument. Voting for either of them violates my sense of morality.
Cool, so instead of seeing Palestinians die, you’re going to see MORE Palestinians die AND Americans AND Ukrainians AND see a decline in freedom, equality, and living standards across the board. Fucking wonderful. “Let’s make things worse, because that’s what my morality says is best!”
You save literally no one, kill additional people, make the system worse, because… you don’t want to make a decision.
That’s fucking vile.
I’d rather work on dismantling the tracks, even if it might take a while.
Cool, how do you think that’s going to work under an openly fascist regime?
Because you’re a citizen. That’s what being a citizen means.
As a citizen, I am working on building support for third-party candidates who are outside of the Democrat-Republican Duopoly (which is really just a Monopoly).
I don’t care if it’s realistic. It’s the only option I see.
As a citizen, I am working on building support for third-party candidates who are outside of the Democrat-Republican Duopoly (which is really just a Monopoly).
Cool, you do realize that voting against fascism in this election doesn’t disable you from doing that, right? You… you do realize that a fascist getting in power will make building that support harder, right?
… right…?
I don’t care if it’s realistic. It’s the only option I see.
This is the equivalent of ‘thoughts and prayers’. May not be realistic, but boy does it make you feel like you’re keeping your hands clean. I mean, ignore the hundreds of thousands of people who are going to die in various horrible ways because of your inaction, at least you didn’t have to make a choice. That would truly be terrible.
ignore the hundreds of thousands of people who are going to die in various horrible ways because of your inaction, at least you didn’t have to make a choice.
Tens of thousands of men, women, and children are dying right now, and your guy is supporting it.
And I am making a choice. I’m choosing third-party.
What’s the difference between a fascist who has openly stated an intention to shift to unlimited support for Israel to ‘finish the job’ and someone who has expressed limited (if insufficient) support for restraining Israel?
I wonder. Or maybe it’s the difference between one openly stating an intention to end democracy here, in the US, while the other quite openly opposes the idea of ending democracy in the US?
I guess those are minor differences in the end. Who cares if fascism comes to America, right? It won’t affect the people voting to let it in.
Wow, I’m so glad that the prospect of the death of minorities at the hands of a regime you yourself admit is fascist is equivalent to baseless right-wing claims of “murderers and rapists” pouring across the border. Great.
I’m really not. I’m asking you to weigh one thing, and one thing only - what difference your vote and advocacy will make in this election.
As much as it would thrill me to have the American electorate take a sudden and sharp turn left, erasing the past several decades of voting trends, in the next four months, it is exceedingly unlikely, especially considering polling on the current issues that dominate people’s minds. Therefore, one must ask what the risks are for each realistic candidate’s victory.
For a Biden victory, the risk is insufficient opposition to the ongoing genocide in Gaza and a lack of substantive resolutions to any of the problems facing the US at this point in time.
For a Trump victory, the risk is total US support for the ongoing genocide in Gaza, the abolition of what democracy the US does have, genocide in Ukraine, sterilization camps for immigrants (we had those during the Trump years, before you cry “Well that’s just scaremongering”, it was kind of a big deal to those few of us who pay attention to politics in this country), a self-proclaimed ‘day-one dictator’, and everything in the fucking Project 2025 outline coming to fruition.
Voting third party on the presidential level in this election is nothing more than an abstain. “I don’t care which of those outcomes comes true.”
Are those two victories equivalent in your eyes?
You’re trying to make this a false dichotomy. That’s a form of logical fallacy, and it’s manipulative.
It’s like those trolley problems about “do you throw the switch or not”? The thing I would do is try to fix the brakes. And if people on the track die, that is the fault of whoever tied them to the track, not me.
I’m not supporting either Trump or Biden, and neither should you.
You’re trying to say Trump is worse than Biden, and though I disagree with some of your points, it also doesn’t matter because I am not choosing either of them. I’m trying to fix the brakes.
You do realize that not all dichotomies are false dichotomies, right?
Here - why don’t you outline a realistic plan that leads to neither Biden nor Trump being elected, and how you plan to achieve that. That way you can prove that “The two near-majority polling candidates, and the only two that will be on the ballot in every state, aren’t the only practical options”, and that you aren’t just misusing terms out of an ignorance of what they mean.
It’s astounding that you manage to miss the entire point of a trolley problem.
The Democrats replace Biden with a better candidate, like Gretchen Whitman.
(Not Gavin Newsom. He’s just as pro-Israel as Biden.)
Why is that my job?
Internet memes about the trolley problem actually fail to present it completely. After the ponderer decides that killing one person is better than killing five people, they are then asked if it’s okay to push a bystander off a bridge onto the train tracks if that would derail the train and prevent it killing five people.
To me, the ultimate lesson of the trolley problem is that morality is not a matter of trading fewer lives for more lives. That’s why I’m not listening to your “Biden probably means fewer deaths than Trump” argument. Voting for either of them violates my sense of morality.
I’d rather work on dismantling the tracks, even if it might take a while.
Because you’re a citizen. That’s what being a citizen means. If you don’t want to share in political power, I’m given to understand there’s an wannabe autocrat who you’re currently assisting who will gladly take the ‘burden’ of responsibility away from you. That way when you smile at all the minorities being herded into death camps, you can say “Don’t worry! It wasn’t my decision!” as you close the gate behind them.
Cool, so instead of seeing Palestinians die, you’re going to see MORE Palestinians die AND Americans AND Ukrainians AND see a decline in freedom, equality, and living standards across the board. Fucking wonderful. “Let’s make things worse, because that’s what my morality says is best!”
You save literally no one, kill additional people, make the system worse, because… you don’t want to make a decision.
That’s fucking vile.
Cool, how do you think that’s going to work under an openly fascist regime?
As a citizen, I am working on building support for third-party candidates who are outside of the Democrat-Republican Duopoly (which is really just a Monopoly).
I don’t care if it’s realistic. It’s the only option I see.
Cool, you do realize that voting against fascism in this election doesn’t disable you from doing that, right? You… you do realize that a fascist getting in power will make building that support harder, right?
… right…?
This is the equivalent of ‘thoughts and prayers’. May not be realistic, but boy does it make you feel like you’re keeping your hands clean. I mean, ignore the hundreds of thousands of people who are going to die in various horrible ways because of your inaction, at least you didn’t have to make a choice. That would truly be terrible.
Tens of thousands of men, women, and children are dying right now, and your guy is supporting it.
And I am making a choice. I’m choosing third-party.
Thanks for affirming that you still don’t understand the trolley problem.
Keep giving out those thoughts and prayers to help the fascists. There’s not much difference between you and them.